I vote woz I feel like it plays better and Woz is a beautiful looking machine.

And Houdini isn't? C'mon - WOZ Is pretty, but Houdini is MUCH cooler looking overall!

Houdini. Next challenger.

For me Houdini hands down on theme and game play.
Woz is a great looker but didnt do much for me.

Hard to think of a game I wouldn't pick over WOZ

Woz, but I own it for over 3 years and really like it. I have played 15-20 plus games of Houdini at Level 257 it is just not my cup of tea. Maybe because I stink at it has some bearing though.

Like when it goes though end of ball bonus? Everything is zero's. lol.

And Houdini isn't? C'mon - WOZ Is pretty, but Houdini is MUCH cooler looking overall!

Not even close.

WoZ is a beautiful game, but Houdini all the way.

Don't get me wrong Houdini is a very pretty game but I just personally like Woz a bit more even though the more I have played it I feel like I am getting tired of it.

I expect the poll will be a slaughter- in favor of WOZ. Questionable theme...awesome pin!

I wouldn't go that far as, again, WOZ is pretty. Glad you agree though!

WOZ Houdini
9 3 gameplay
4 7 theme
8 7 looks department
8 6 animation
5 9 difficulty( not always a good thing)
9 5 overall fun

WOZ is my choice

Liked playing WOZ but hated the theme.
Houdini for me

I assume pinsiders that don't like the theme Woz are much much younger than me.

This movie was played every year when we we young growing up. It was a family event watching it.
Also watching Bonanza Sunday night at my grandparents.lol.

WOZ. 100% perfection. Houdini is 80%.

I’m surprised you don’t like WOZ; it’s a players dream with rules and stacking. So much depth and breadth that add up to a lot of excitement and Adrenalin. And despite the theme; the integration of the theme and call outs are very well done.

Houdini, on the other hand, nothing exciting or fun about it. But yea, it does look pretty.

Theme integration sure, but adrenaline?
More of a stroll down that yellow brick road.

You musta been playing a 6.5deg low flipper power WOZ. Adrenaline might not be the right word, but stacking multiball after multiball with so many unique rules to each; then a little fireball frenzy or battle the wicked witch; the rush factor makes for some great pinball. Granted, I had my WOZ at 7deg with strong flipper power. Shots felt good, brutality was in line, and the craziness was top notch. Great wizard call outs mixed in with some fantastic supporting call outs. It's really a fantastic machine. The game does have great variety of speed from stop n go to fast and hectic. Then there's no place like home; not a big fan favorite nor was I, until I got my success rate up to 30%, knowing you have a chance to fight to get your ball back is fantastic. Prior to an attainable success rate, I thought it was a worthless mode, but that just adds to the depth the game offers.

WOZ...no contest

If someone offered me:

A: Houdini

B: WOZ and Hobbit

I'd take A

First off SKB, I do like WOZ. It's a wonderful game and in an ideal world I would have one in my collection. The truth is most of these game vs. game comparisons are just silly when it comes down to it as, in this case, both games are usually great. The impetus for me in this thread is to fight for the underdog. I absolutely HATE it when a game is unfairly underrated on Pinside due to critics' limited familiarity with it, as more often than not, seems to be the case with Houdini haters currently.

Secondly, I'm truly disappointed to hear that you, of all Pinsiders, feel that Houdini has "nothing exciting or fun about it". Ouch! I really don't know how someone of your skill level can possibly say that if you are truly familiar with its deep ruleset and the many gameplay options that it consequently offers. If challenging shots = "unfun", then I guess Houdini is guilty. However, in a home gameroom environment, I have honestly found it to not only be fun as well as beautiful, but creatively unique in many respects, historically interesting, and addictive to play! The bottom line for any game is whether you want to hit the start button again - and in this respect Houdini has not failed to disappoint me.

If you haven't already, check out this fine gameplay stream by Buffalo Pinball:

Unfortunately, based on Buffalo Pinball's just released subsequent review of Houdini, I am confident that if Nick Lane had been able to participate in this stream or play a Houdini in a similar home gameroom environment, his opinion of its gameplay would definitely be more positive. Houdini is not an ideal location game due to its admittedly quirky presentation style as well as its difficulty. Rather, it's best suited for pinheads who appreciate a game that will seriously test their abilities as well as entertain them in an unconventional manner.

Both machines are great first efforts, but WOZ was a magical, monumental leap forward. Houdini looks nice but you can tell it didn’t have the development time and effort WOZ received.

I have a relevent data point to add. At league last night I watched a 2-player game on Houdini last 25 min. About 12 min each. That doesn't really match the narrative that "houdini is too hard" and "houdini shots are so tight the geometry is broken". I call BS on that.

For reference this was on a location pin that just came a week ago. We're just starting to learn it.

We barely got the pin, so we're far from experts on it.

This is one of the hardest ones I've ever considered as I have and love both games. I've owned WOZRR for about three years and Houdini for about 2.5 months. I'm with Tuna with regards to all the Houdini hate, are the shots tight? Yep but they are all absolutely make-able, the Milkcan loop is quite similar to the Crystal Ball shot on WOZ and the scoop is not too different than the Throne Room either (though I think the scoop is the easier shot). Woz's ramp is not a gimme and the left loop through the pops is also challenging. They are both very kinda quirky games compared to a fan layout, which is great when you have several fan layout games too. Both games will absolutely kick a newbie's ass, and often still kicks mine as well but I keep coming back for more on both. Having Rescue, Emerald and a Crystal Multiball all going while trying to start a Munchkin mode is about as good as it gets in pinball but Man From Beyond with Trunk and / or Seance MBs on Houdini isn't too far behind it. If I absolutely had to choose and money was no object I'd probably take WOZ because there is more there (five flippers two mini-pfs, spinning house, monkey, Haunted Forest modes, etc), if you consider the price difference Houdini would be a lot harder to pass up though.

Wizard of Oz. One of the most gorgeous pinballs ever made and game play to stand with the very best. As to the theme, I count it in poll position and here's why:

It is arguably the most beloved film ever made in this country. It was based on one of the most venerated children’s stories ever written. It launched the career of the greatest female thespian to ever appear in a musical film, and it remains the one film she is most reverentially identified with. The movie’s celebrated score is woven into our popular culture, and it’s unforgettable screenplay has produced lines of dialogue that are ingrained into the consciousness of anyone and everyone who has watched the film countless times, and have come to value it’s themes of home, family and friendship as cinematically conclusive. The film’s most coveted song is probably the most popular number ever written during the twentieth century, and has been covered time and again by renowned artists. The story of it’s changing directors and cast auditions remain as fascinating to movie lovers as anything else about the film, and more has been written on the making of the picture than any other in history. The story of the little people who appear early in the film in one of it’s most celebrated sequences, remains a stand alone curiosity for many to this very day, with the old age passings of this unique fraternity a major news item. Every supporting member of the film’s distinguished cast will eternally be remembered firstly for the role they played in this film, even with exceptional careers to their credit. No film has been more referenced in other movies, and the final black-and-white sequence set in the bedroom of a Kansas farmhouse may well be the most emotionally moving scene in the history of American cinema. With the advent of home video in the late 70’s the film became an incomparable favorite, and to this day has been released more often on the many video formats up to a recently-released blu-ray box set. The smash Broadway hit Wicked is hugely indepted to the 1939 film. While it has come to represent homespun family values and the most vivid realization of one’s dreams, The Wizard of Oz is imbued with humor and humanity, two qualities that more than any other have contributed to it’s enduring, even spectacular appeal over decades all around the world. Much like the assassination of John F. Kennedy and the day astronauts first stepped foot on the moon, many Americans will never forget the day, the month and the year they first remembered watching the film, and in whose company they were with. Just two years ago, the seventieth anniversary of the film’s opening was celebrated to national fan-fare, with the original city of it’s first appearance being honored – Oconomwoc, Wisconsin.

For baby-boomers like myself The Wizard of Oz first took hold during the famous run of CBS holiday showings, which initially were offered around Easter time in the 60’s and early 70’s. In those exceedingly impressionable days watching The Wizard of Oz was the highlight of my week, month and year. It was a time when I was frightened by the wicked witch, the haunted castle and the winged monkeys, was reassured by the dismissals of the good witch Glinda, and was intrigued by the bizarre appearance of the Munchkins, whom had me asking question after question about. When Toto escaped over the draw bridge, when Glinda provided a snow panacea for the poppies that felled our beloved brood, when the tin man used his axe to help free Dorothy from her prison and drop a chandelier on her persuers, when the witch -made of sugar- is destroyed by a bucket of water, and when Toto unmasks the well intentioned but weak-willed charletan, by pulling open a curtain, I was exhilarated and relieved, even though I knew what would happen. Like so many other kids I took an immediate liking to the Scarecrow, the Tin Man and the Cowardly Lion, all who added to the security of our young heroin, who was in this seemingly unsolvable dilemma from the beginning. I always shed tears -even to this very day in fact- when the Cowardly Lion wrenchingly tells Dorothy that although she is stranded on Oz, he and the others didn’t want her to go anyway. And the final scene is a sure-firer tear-jerker, broaching the concepts of home, love of family and the idea that happiness can be realized within your own borders.

I do like HOUDINI too but for me this is no contest.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying and I hear you bro. I feel I'm actually in the minority on what I like and dislike about Houdini; and I haven't played the latest code. Haven't had the chance, or desire even, to play it in months. So like all new pins, there's hope that my feelings for the pin might change; it has for games like SW and even WOZ. That said, I happen to like the shots and layout a lot. I found the lock shot and orbits very satisfying to shoot. The milk can shot and half loop to hit stage are clever. For the limited time I had on it, I found that I did like the rules. I enjoyed the staging combo hurry ups to be fun; in fact that combo mode was the only thing I found fun about the game. My problem with the pin is the ear wrenching sound package. Combo mode aside; the game is too stop n go for my liking, the multiball action is very lackluster for the layout, and there was nothing exciting or inviting that wanted me to keep playing. I am very much with Nick on my thoughts of how much I had to force myself to play the game rather than wanting to play. It just did not have that pinball rush draw to it and aside from the hurry up combo mode, a lot has to do with the lack of intensity in the sound, choreography, and fluency of the game. You could even tell in Kevin's voice there's a hint of hesitation in his review, like something is missing about the game. I like games that are fast, brutal, challenging, and intense. Aside from challenging, I didn't find any of those other attributes that keeps bringing me back to play again and again. All in all it's not a bad pin, and the overall package is presented very well; it's just a game I have no desire to own or go out of my way to play, Different strokes....

When I play it, I can't tell that there was anything lacking in its development time

If anything, Woz took forever, and came out of the gate as a poor quality game. Chronic light board failures, crappy chipping playfields, and awful rules that have since been perfected.

Unlike Woz. Houdini blazed out of the gate without preorder money, with awesome
code, and with the build quality to be on route without constantly breaking down.

In my opinion, Houdini delivered what I was hoping for when I preordered Woz. I like Houdini better.

I still like my Woz, and I ain't selling it. But I know Houdini nailed it, and is a fantastic, strategic, challenging, and fun game.

I think there's a lot gang- mentality in this thread to defend what you own. But I own Woz, and I choose Houdini.

I hope to get one soon.

I used to own WOZ, sold it. Played Houdini a lot on location. WOZ gets my vote, I think it would give you more long term fun in a home environment.

where is the vote for keep my cash and buy a fun game?

WOZ is my choice.

Well, I've never played Houdini, but Houdini.

Well stated and there's no denying that The Wizard of Oz theme holds a special place within American arts and culture. Does the game really need to play "We're off to see the Wizard" so damn often though?

Although I don't totally agree with your overall assessment, I appreciate your insights man. I too really like fast flowing, brutal, in-your-face games like Iron Man, TNA, and AC/DC, but yet ... I really enjoy Houdini's stop & go gameplay too. Between its well integrated magic theme, demanding shots, deep code, wealth of unique playfield features, rich artwork package (including the fabulous art blades), dramatic musical selections, and historical charm, it is a fun game to be savored - not rushed through. Kind of like sipping a fine bourbon as opposed to throwing back a shot. It's definitely not for everyone, but to each his own. I sincerely find it to be a treasure to own and play. Hopefully more pinheads will too as they become more familiar with the many positives that Houdini has to offer.

Woz is more familiar to most, but it's not a compelling reason for choosing it.

What??

The whole theme sucks thing is so over blown by the old stiffs here. Woz did and still does stand alone with the advancements it made to the pinball world. The game is stunning, from the cabinet to the playfield. A completely new design, never seen before with 2 upper playfields, and the first mainstream lcd monitor. Not to mention the addition of a PC to run the system. Plus the addition of the ability to add mods, I added a 3D castle, a tornado, throne room torches, new witch, etc, that all fit with the theme perfectly.

Houdini is a great first effect too and I'd like to add one to my collection, but it doesn't come close to Woz in overall presentation.

Someone was going to do it, and JJP pulled it off, they changed the future of pinball with Woz, like it or not they did.

Respect Woz but Houdini is a phenomenal pin when it comes to overall presentation.
Consider AP started from absolute scratch on a rebuild. No imbedded nostalgia or film assets to draw from, just research and originality all the way down to sculpts. Add the fact they put together this kick ass package out the door in just over a YEAR.
This is an amazing achievement in pinball, a beautiful game, and a pleasure (and challenge) to play.

Thumbs up, not for woz vs Houdini but for a great synopsis of where the Wizard of Oz stands the test of time in Americas culture. Like great bands like the Beatles, WOZ (film) begins to lose its relevance as a younger generation(s) grows older.
As to Woz the game, I have seen people who hated the game only to learn to love it the more it was played and understood. Im trying to see if Houdini will grow a bit more on me.

I respectfully, but wholeheartedly disagree with this assertion. Both games present well overall.

no comparison. I don't like woz enough to win against anything, except maybe SF2 and Xfiles, as they are the worst DMD's ever made.

I never said Houdini doesnt, but Woz is the complete package and a industry leader/starter for new technology. Houdini is great, Ill be getting one but the advancements WoZ made are a non argument.

You have made that clear several times but no one else can change the fact your a silly old man upset with a theme you dont like. To say Woz did'nt change the landscape of pinball would be foolish.

His hatred for JJP is strong!

You said that Houdini "doesn't come close to WOZ in overall presentation". I disagree as I think they are both great in terms of presentation and this is all I'm disputing. The degree of technological advances in either game is irrelevant to my point.

Not true.

WOZ - like the layout but not the theme. Hobbit - like the theme but not the layout.
Houdini - like both

Met Jack, like Jack, mixed him a drink. Once he makes a pin I want I'll be a customer. Square footage in my game room isn't unlimited. Not just going to bring in whatever.

Uh, no that’s not Agreement. WoZ wins by a country mile, way better pin play wise and aesthetically.

WOZ - no question for me. Not even close. I’ve owned WOZ for a while and it’s a keeper. Well built and tons of fun with super deep rule set. Played Houdini a lot at 2 different friends homes and I just can’t get into it. Boring game to me with too much stop and go and too much put on middle of playfield.

Yep - we definitely disagree.

I'll say this though - I enjoyed playing WOZ on route and seriously considered buying one in the past before subsequent games grabbed my attention (and money). Now this thread and you guys have me looking at WOZ again!

Dammit.

I don't mind the theme, it's the layout and rules I don't like. It just isn't fun. But it is more fun than Hobbit. Even when I do good, I just keep wishing for the game to end.

I agree with everything you've said and noticed you neglect to mention the gameplay. I don't find it fun to play.

Gee, is it THHHHAATTT bad?!