Pirates.

Houdini shoots horribly and has no where near the depth

Pirates by a nautical mile.

Not even a fair vs thread imo... potc by long shot

Pirates. All day long. Pirates has incredible depth, great toys and a very good and satisfying shots.

The ability to play with 22 different characters is big as well, because each plays differently.

I've played both and prefer Pirates. Maybe find a location that has both and do a side-by-side?

I would get a Houdini with a second pin or hold extra cash. I am just under 200 plays and have yet to finish all of the modes in one game let alone all of the films and mini tasks. Houdini is plenty deep for a home game.
If Houdini is a low run (and is or will be out of production soon) it would be an easy flip out later for a POTC.
I had planned on getting pirates but waiting so see how it all pans out now.
I played the proto JJP at a show over the summer a hand full of times and watches another half dozen players (some seasoned some not).The consensus was Houdini played better even with the tight shots. I will say it was a proto with the three discs and the working trunk but there seemed to be a lot of SDTM drains. While I played I never had an out lane drain.
Fan of both but Houdini would be my choice.

Pirates beats the pants off just about every other high-priced non-JJP machine in production at the moment, in every single respect, if you like the theme.

I do like Houdini though, and want to play it more.

Pirates all the way.

HOOKED I was at Expo last year and every single person I spoke to said the opposite. I don’t know anyone who said they preferred Houdini. Pirates because I would buy it and I wouldn’t own a Houdini.

I'm assuming you mean Stern pirates vs Houdini bc jjp pirates smokes Houdini without even trying.

Stern pirates still beats Houdini too. Houdini is just a terrible game period.

Agreed. Houdini is plenty deep. Who the heck wants to play with 22 different characters amyway? Sounds like a chore and a bore. I just to want to hit start an plunge the ball.

P.s. I think Stern did the POTC theme better.

Just as a reference the four player game we played combined we had at least 60 years of collecting pins ...the youngest/ newest collector we played with has only been in pinball 9 years and is currently an operator. Looks wise we all loved POTC and I know it was early on code wise.
But like others have said play them side by side and see which one floats or sinks your boat .

JJPOTC all day.

Having more options and depth is a bore? Kind of a hard one to sell - I get it that many people don't value the depth but to make it a negative? Cmon now. That's just nonsense. You could just play the same character and be right back to where you want to be. Let the other players enjoy the other 21!

Really? Are you actually being serious?

Stern Pirates was janky, ugly and had bad theme integration even for its era. Compare it to TSPP, Sopranos, Family Guy, RBION, LotR etc.

Come on now, for its era?
Stern’s Pirates isnt perfect but does pretty well with the assets from this license.

Jack found it appealing enough to revisit it.

I just got a Stern Potc! I think it's a great game! With that said, I also think JJP' potc is really cool too!
Houdini? Umm....if you're a really good player, it's a fun game.

Sign me up! Deep, smooth, addictive and visually stunning pin. I get it though that some people prefer Scared Stiff (or pong)

This is where I've been debating over the past few weeks too. I was looking more at the Hobbit or WoZ versus Houdini, depending on the amount of availability. With the announcement of Houdini ending its production, and most likely not being produced again, whereas WoZ will be soon, I went with Houdini. I really love JJP too, but for me, availability is key right now. I hope to get every JJP down the road.

Houdini grabbed me more than POTC.

POTC for some reason left me cold and uninterested.

I love JJP games and have 2 of them.
They are long playing games.

I guess the theme didnt resonate with me, same with dialed in.

For me I guess theme is important.

I like the way Houdini shoots.
Its fast and brutal, the same reason I like AFM. But when your in the zone they are incredible.

Long games lol... come play my hobbit and di and say that lol..... also my woz i just sold kicked my ass also.

I know we are in the minority, but I feel the same way. I actually had a deposit down for a JJP Pirates CE, and wound up switching to Houdini after playing both at the Ohio show. Don't get me wrong, on location I would put money in pirates and play a few games, but when it came to owning, I chose Houdini instead. And with code improvements, it keeps getting better and better.

Pirates was just "too much" for me, but I don't like really deep, deep rulesets either.

Who the heck wants to play with 22 different characters amyway? Sounds like a chore and a bore. I just to want to hit start an plunge the ball.

Pirates by a mile, just an FYI for everyone The individual characters just have a “perk” that no matter which one you chose at some point during the game you’d wish you would of chosen a different character. One makes the boat rock less, one makes collecting gold easier, one doesn’t allow you to be plundered and would only be beneficial during multiplayer, They are fairly balanced and it depends on what your strategy for the game is on who you’d want to start with. The LCD animations are extremely polished along with the code. Houdini’s are selling for $6k used and Pirates are $9.5 , it’s the quantity or quality question once again. Best of luck!

I don't think anything is very cut or dry in this, or any, hobby. There are so many factors involved, not just price or potential resale value. Some people might prefer one table's playstyle or aesthetic to another.

I think the real question ultimately is.......why not BOTH?

And actually, regarding the really awesome animations in POTC, it was a stark tradeoff to lose image and audio likenesses from the main cast, as opposed to the Hobbit where everything blended so immaculately. (Thanks Disney.) A big step back in my mind, and the entire audio and visual package just works on so many more levels in the Hobbit, as opposed to POTC. I wish that weren't the case......

Exactly. Only people who don't want that kind of depth in a home environment are those who enjoy BM66 or are plagued with boredom tunnel pin-vision. Pirates hits on so many levels; and the great thing about pinball is those who don't believe will have plenty of time to be converted. Pirates ftw - best pin ever made IMO.

after owning a houdini for 3 days i realized all you had to do was pick the theater mode you wanted if you hit the ball with your right flipper tap the left quickly and vice versa and you could choose your mode every time. Made the game kinda boring for me.....sold quickly can’t see my pirates going anywhere.

Both look (I haven't played POTC much yet) to be great games for a home collection. Not exactly apples to apples though since Houdini can be purchased for significantly less than Pirates.

Don't take the Houdini haters' opinions as gospel either as many pinheads love it. Such as these guys:

so same question, but what if potc theme doesn't interest you, but you love jjp and are worried about the bad press with Houdini, for home use with kids, what would be the choice? I am going through the same dilemma.

Bahahahahahaa, funny!

Bad press...? Post launch or pre?

Buy a use Houdini if you like the theme of that better. You can get great deals on them now as many posts above me have also commented on. Play it for awhile, and if you get bored of it trade it or sell it.

That said, Houdini has some tight shots, and is a little tough. A very nuanced pin. In that regard, it might not be the best for young kids or those new to pinball. Monster Bash Remake might be a perfect fit for kids.

Pirates will most likely be a great pin, but if the theme doesn't do it for you there is no reason to rush into it. Wait until you get a chance to play it on location or at a friends to see if you really like it. In 6 months to a year from now you will also see them up for resale at a reasonable discount. Pays to be patient.

I own Houdini and really enjoy it - there is absolutely no other game like it. I have not played Pirates that much, but the 30 minutes or so I've spent on it did not have as much "one more game..." as Houdini. I own DI and Hobbit, and both have had astonishing updates recently, but it's been over a year for DI and *2* years for Hobbit. You may want to wait out POTC. If I were you, I'd get Houdini now, see how much you like it, then flip it when you want to try something new.

When I watched videos of it, Pirates blew me away. When I played it at expo, for some reason, I wasnt quite as impressed. Still a fine game.

Meanwhile, I didnt care about Houdini until I played it and thought it was very cool. Much better than I anticipated. HOWEVER, the shots are all too damn tight. Every shot is a little too hard.

After all that rambling, my answer would be pirates, but they're both neat.

Honestly not sure as I haven't had a lot of time on Pirates. Pirates is loaded and has deep code but if I had to complain about one thing it's the lack of variety in the chapter and movie multiball modes.

Pirates has an objective based ruleset but since the game doesn't have licensed actor audio or actor video all of the modes feel very similar. All of the 125 chapter modes pretty much play the same as you are hitting character shots without any unique animations or callouts playing for each mode. Same goes for the games multiballs. The wizard modes in Pirates are all unique and have multiple stages but you have to play through the book and multiballs to get to them. I much rather prefer the far more unique modes in Dialed In and especially in The Hobbit over the modes in Pirates.

Even though many of the modes in Pirates feel similar the "pick a character" feature adds a ton of strategy to the game. Combing the character feature with the map award system really adds a lot of fun to the game and helps give each game it's own unique feel.

Is this a joke ?!?!?!

I guess overall....I take that back, not bad press, just a lot of negative comments about the tightness of the shots.

I haven't seen the shots to be tight or tighter than many other games.
In fact they are much easier than a lot of games.

That said, there are a lot of easy games out there if that is what you are looking for.

I think for home use, a game should be challenging enough do that you dont get bored with it.

At the same time get a theme that you enjoy having with artwork you like in your home.

I mean think about it. A lot of games have a very similar layout. It's the theme and what the code is all about that makes a great game.

I really want to like POTC and it's a great game from JJP, but after 50 plays on it, I couldn't see buying it.

I will play it on location instead.
Same with many other titles I passed on.

A great, fun, easy game that kids can get into Is Monster Bash.

It's really a good choice for the home with novice players and is super fun.

You can get a classic at a very good price now NIB.

I haven't played POTC yet and it looks like a great game. Ultimately, I went with Houdini after playing it and knew that it was a great fit for me.

* Magic as a theme appealed to me more than pirates. I still love pirates but not as much as magic.
* The Balcer design is well done - not everyone agrees but that's the case with most machines - rarely is there universal agreement. I think its fresh and fun. For example, the criss-crossing shots through the pops are very clever and the rules utilize those shots well.
* The features and build quality are very comparable to a JJP machine.
* I'm a total value shopper! JJP prices me out of the market. I really wanted a Dialed In but even Houdini at $7000 was pushing the limits of my NIB budget.
* Houdini code is super deep yet approachable - I'm not even close to getting to a wizard mode yet after 9 months.
* Houdini art package is beautiful. That is always the first thing people comment on when they first see my Houdini - how freaking cool it looks. I think POTC is pretty good looking as well.
* The toys in Houdini appealed to me. I loved the stage and the catapult into the trunk.

The complaints about tight shots are overblown. Shots on my KISS are more tight than Houdini and few people bitch about tight shots on KISS. Are you a person that wants all shots to be wide open and easy? Or do you want a game where there are a couple shots that are challenging? If you want a game that is deep and that you can grow into, Houdini's a great option.

I own one pin, WOZ, and the family loves it. the theme is neither here nor there for me, but it is a ton of fun for all of us. Now, due to the bug everyone talks about, we are looking for our second game and I want it to be worth having and not too easy or boring or too challenging either. Just something fun.
and as of now, NIB my choices are these two. yes the Houdini price point is better, but is it $2500 less of a machine? it looks pretty good to me, just concerned about the long term likeability of the family.

Seems to me a lot of people, skill-wise, can't handle the somewhat difficult layout of Houdini and instead of acknowledging their lack of aim they prefer to blame the pin. "Shots too tight". "Bad geometry". "Broken layout". Blah, blah, blah. Maybe they just need to play better. It's no cream puff fan layout, but it's not THAT hard. Most in our league are able to experience long games, play multiple modes, lock 3 balls, etc. And no shot on Houdini is as tight as the Rocket shot on Guardians. I welcome the challenge of pins with a few tight shots and I hope manufacturers aren't put off from making them due to the "Wah! It's too hard" backlash Houdini received.

I agree, I am not looking for easy and boring. Just being an amateur player at best, with kids, I didn't want to spend 7k or 9.5k and find out it was not fun after the fact. We do like challenging, so I do appreciate all the information here.

It’s not even that hard, it’s just -different- than most of the B/W games we are familiar with. I am finding the shots on the new Stern Iron Maiden WAY tougher (the left ramp!) and they are easily just as tight as Houdini. The inner orbit is tough to hit indeed, but I swear I think this is all psychological. I can hit that shot WAY more reliably than the left ramp on Maiden

I'm not sure I understand this approach. As in I'm assuming you're stating Houdini shouldn't even deserve to be given thought to be purchased compared to a JJPOTC?

Being in the same situation as the OP, I'd always rather hear thoughtful dissection/bullet points of positives and negatives regarding tables from owners and users. That helps a great deal on making a really expensive choice, and can be invaluable.

I love Houdini, but I bought it from a guy who specifically said his wife and kids were frustrated at repeatedly bouncing balls off posts.

It’s exactly that need for precision that makes it a good game for home use — it takes time and (fun) effort to master, imo.

I haven’t played new POTC, but wanted to offer those thoughts on HOU.

I played Houdini at Expo for a while. I also played POTC. I now have my POTC LE. Love it. My preference overall is POTC.

I mean maybe it's that. I love brutal games that have flow and shots that are satisfying. TNA is far more demanding and brutal and I love that machine, but it has great flow and some seriously satisfying shots.

Houdini just feels like they never dialed in the shots and was rushed. I love the theme and look, it's just not much fun to play, and I enjoy difficult machines.

My Houdini flows better than my AFMr. I get far fewer post hits and ramp rejects.

People have a hard time with AFM and also say it's too hard, but its s top 5 game of all time.

I really like both games for different reasons.

At TPF I had no trouble getting 1 million points on a game that was hastily setup and not dialled in.

Pinballgoddess put up 1.3 million on the first game she ever played on it and made 5 of the 10 stage acts.

It was so much fun we bought one.
I wanted a magic themed game to replace my ToM.

So, challenging, yes. Difficult no. In fact really fun with very satisfying shots.

The game is amazing and better with each code update.

Really fine work from API.