So, you're saying Dialed In is kind of like Ricky Bobby's wife, who will walk straight up to you and grab you in the crotch, but after a while her charms wear off?

Hahaha! Yes. Exactly.

It's like any other game, you never know what you're going to like. There isn't a company, designer, or rules guy that bats 1000 with me.

i traded my Dialed in FOR a Houdini , after voting for dialed in . hypocrite alert!

This drives me nuts. I've almost decided and then this.. LOL
Dialed-in and Houdini are wickedly polarizing, but Houdini more.
Many love Dialed-in. Many are like, eh!
Houdini, people love it or hate it, nothing in the middle. And you won't know which until you buy it.
Brilliant!

I do love the dialed in layout , but the family friendly theme and the grind of collecting sim cards , combined with some uninspired wizard modes helped push me over the edge . once i LIT showdown (and drained) i was done . Plus, my selfies are ugly as SH*T.

Iron Maiden is near perfect for me ATM.

For some reason Iron Maiden just doesn't feel special enough to me.
(But I don't feel passionate enough to say it on an actual IM opinion thread, so I'm burying it over here. )

It's never ceases to be humorous as to how bad the high scorers' selfies look while posted in attract mode.

The worst camera angle ever. Catches all bad double chins, bad hair and nostral hairs. Lol

There should be some on location not too far from you. Does Coin Op in Sac still have either one?

Well, I didn't vote in the poll because I've only played a handful of games on either, so I'm not sure I'm qualified.

I have to say, I'm surprised that theme has come up so often in this thread. I have to admit I'm much more a fan of Houdini as a theme over the cellphone-centric theme in DI. To counter-weight that, I am a fan of Pat Lawlor games. In the end, I figured most pinheads would ignore theme and go with whichever game they found most fun to play. I find that a theme can get me to play a couple of games on a machine or avoid maybe it. Once I start *playing* the game, the focus switches to how much I enjoy the game itself.

I'm a big Star Wars fan, but never bought a Star Wars pin because I never enjoyed them (haven't played the latest Stern version though). I like AC/DC, but didn't get into the game (maybe because I couldn't hear the music that well). Never liked the carnival theme on Funhouse, but it ended up being one of my favorite pins. In the end for me: gameplay and collection variety might make a bigger difference than theme (although the whole package would be best).

I want to like Houdini based on theme, but so far I haven't found the gameplay that interesting. I'll keep playing it on location to see if it grows on me. I really like DI so far, but 66% of my collection Lawlor pins already (TZ, FH) -- so it might not be the best choice. In the end, everyone probably has different weights for theme vs. gameplay. I play lots with my family and friends, so we have a couple of lighter games (FH,MM), and just one deeper game (TZ) for me and my pinhead friends. My next pin is likely to be a deeper game with lots of flow. As much as I'd like to have a Houdini themed pin, it doesn't seem to fit the bill.

I'm hoping a future Beatles pin (love the theme) would be a good addition; but it's likely to be simpler, more accessible game. Normally, I'd just sell FH to make room for it, but I might have to pass since my wife loves FH.

Help me find it "often cheaper" on the secondary market?

Here is one. Took ten seconds to look for.
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/66474

Asking 6500 for HUO.

Look on other Fbook groups and they have been selling for 6000.

The way things are going I would guess 5000-5500 is where HUO will settle in the next year. for the number made, they change hands alot and that is a good indicator on the game as a whole IME.

Actually, Whysnow stated "much cheaper". Regardless of the fact that you get a lot of game for the list price of $7,000, apparently $500 below that for a HUO Houdini is a fire sale to him.

Your market perspective seems a bit skewed. For the record, Houdini sells for "much cheaper" than DI and a quick check of Pinside's market also reveals:

Sale pending "mint" DI LE - $1,500 below list price: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/65949

Sale pending DI LE - $1,000 below list price: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/66247

"Mint" DI LE - currently for sale at $800 below list price: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/66378

DI LE currently for sale at $700 below list price: https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/64821

Given the number of new pinball games being produced these days, I think it's safe to figure that Standard and LE Dialed In's will continue to drop in resale value proportionately too. This doesn't mean that it's not a fine game that can be enjoyed by those who don't buy games for investment purposes though.

Agree here! With JJP pumping out new DILE’s I think the prices drop for sales in the mid 7’s. They are sitting for the most part in the very low 8K range. Same problem with Houdini’s. What is the discount some one will buy HUO versus NIB? Now it is low 6k range I believe and may go lower. So that being said. I am looking for either game and have the cash. Someone with one to sell give me a PM.

Not to mention AFM remake which is currently the top rated pin on the list. I know it's a popularity contest but popularity sells games. And CGC actually has a few bases covered with the price structure classic to LE.

As for theme, that's not as huge a thing for me as gameplay/rules. For example I'm more of a Avengers/XM guy owned XM (was ok) but Avengers didn't do anything for me, while AcDc which I dismissed because of the theme is great.

As I said before DI is a disaster them pin more than anything and the phone is more of an information device.

based on original sale price and reduction in sales price of mint examples on the secondary, Houdini has dropped more. ~15% price break (and dropping) vs 8% (and seems to have stabalized or gone back up in the past few months?) is "much" to me personally. That is not really perspective, just looking at the data.

As I said, I think we will see Houdini continue down to SternPro price range on the secondary. Just how it seems to work and people tend to look at Houdini as comparable value to a Sternpro model. When making the comparison of what new game to buy I think most will continue to buy a PRO over a houdini, so seems natural for the secondary price to settle in that range.

DI on the other hand seems perceived to be valued higher and hence people are willing to still pay more on the secondary.

Most high dollar games seem to find their place on the secondary after a certain time and stabilize. DI seems to be in stable phase. Houdini is still finding its settling point.

I'd agree with you except for two things. First is that a few Lawlor pins are disaster themed (#DI,#ES,#WW, #RS, #NGG, Wreck'n Ball and #GMA ). So often the interesting bit isn't the disaster aspect, but the context the disasters are offered in. So, those Lawlor pins can be thought of as Disaster/something else themed. Second, and more importantly, some of the most memorable things that happen during the game are related to smartphones (Emoji & Seflies). My kids certainly call this the "selfie pin". If anything it's themed as both disasters and smartphones, but I think most people here seem put-off by the smartphone bits.

I was following this thread closely, and while I purchased my DI just a few weeks ago, I thought I had made a huge mistake based on the recent replies I was reading. I was pretty bummed that I had NIB Dialed In headed towards me, and could have had a Houdini for $1,000 less, for what seemed like an equal or better pin.

Then the game showed up. It's built solid, no expense was spared. This thing could survive a car accident. The lights, sounds, and flow of the game is SO GOOD. Shots are wide open enough, ramps are very satisfying (huge emphasis on "very".... hitting either ramp feels so good for some reason). Side ramp, side targets, and sim card scoop is challenging, as is finishing a mode. Doing so on big bang is a rush! I wish the points accumulated in multiball and BOB modes were worth more, but that's the range of my complaints. I love this machine. I should never have been worried. Then again, some of my favorites of all time are Lawler designs. I don't know why I questioned my choice.

I also love watching people play it. I donated it to my local co-op so everyone can enjoy it for a few months. Watching others enjoy the game yet be challenged at the same time was fun. I just watched 7 grown men (40+) act silly around the guy playing the selfie mode. It's something I'll remember for a long time. If you love games with great flow, and will be playing the game with..... anybody really, amateurs & vets alike...... then you'll love DI. There's no doubt about it in my mind. It drives me nuts when someone calls it a "cell phone game" though. It's definitely not.

That's not to say that it's better than Houdini, it's just relative is all. Definitely depends on the user. If you like Lawler games, DI does not disappoint at all. I think it's his greatest design of all time.

Houdini is leaps and bounds above stern pros, both in quilty and execution. No, Houdini will not fall below 5k.

DI is a great game. Ive said it before, Houdini and DI are 2 different animals.

Stern pros are 5600-5700 now

For better or worse, DI's theme is, and will likely continue to be, associated with a cell phone as it is the key playfield feature, is prominently presented in its artwork, and is referenced by its name.

Apparently selectively.

Well said and I agree. Despite what some contend, both are great games for their respective qualities. Although I personally prefer playing Houdini more than DI, we are no doubt fortunate to have the choices in games that we do.

I haven't put many games on Houdini but I did enjoy it.

In my mind the people who complain about tight shots have a valid complaint. There is nothing wrong with making a game challenging as long as it's not punishing. Would you say that the tight frequent brick shots are challenging or punishing?

See this quick video on game design challenging vs punishing:

Yes and no. Houdini is there now, thank goodness, and I'm on that whenever I can get downtown. But DI was at Coin-op for only a short time last fall and then disappeared- maybe its the one now at the SF Coin-op. We're going through a DI deficit disaster right now in Sac. And for once Concord is no help. Have to drive all the way to Alameda or Oakland to get me some selfies and emojis.

6400 now for this one.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-houdini-23

Are you just trying to rub it in the face of all the DI owners that Houdini is not only a better, game but it's also a better price?

Uncool.

He is. Its what he does. Making Friends on pinside.

And the prices keep getting better.

6250 now

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-houdini-22

I have to tell you that after trying this game again (Houdini) I actually like it less than before. Everything from the feel of the flippers to the absolutely terrible art and speech to the shot layout and the list goes on I really just can't get into this game at all. I think the recent sales are just the beginning and if you're looking for it hold tight as prices will continue going down.

DI absolutely smokes this game it's not even close. The poll is absolutely right IMO

And drops the mic....

Spot on.

Different strokes for different folks but even if someone just wants to try the game for a bit, I personally would suggest waiting it out till the prices settle.

Currently dropping quickly and no body really knows how low they could go. I still stand by my opinion that they will be at stern pro prices before long.

Thank you. Apparently, all those who enjoy playing Houdini are just delusional as it's OBVIOUSLY a horrid game. Shame on American Pinball for developing and offering a game such as this and woe to any fools who buy it when they could have DI instead!

Ok, for the record what they both said was opinion and actually fact regarding Whysnow. The six I know of in my area All sold after purchase and not through Pinside and sadly yes at or Below the numbers and point he was making. Don't see that anyone was making fun of buyers/owners just opinion and fact on a thread comparing two different games. Thats why I hate these comparison pole threads. Everyone can only see one opinion as right and the other must be BS. They are both good games. Granted I Really think they picked the Wrong game to compare Houdini to. No comparison (My Opinion) Maybe Houdini and GOTG Pro, sure. The TWIPI winner and seasoned veteran designer against a new company, not so sure. The people have spoken but Nobody is wrong! If you like it you Win.

And for the record, just expressing an opinion as well.

Some may see it as obvious truth and others as sarcasm. Regardless, form your own opinion on these games objectively.

Flipper feel? Don't both companies get their flipper mechs from the same source?

Terrible art?

Your opinion is so heavily biased it's hard to swallow.

As I said previously only played a bit of Houdini and think it’s fantasticly made, art, lcd displays. (Side note DI is as good or better in those areas).

The quibble with Houdini is does it shoot well? Most would say DI shoots well and then some. Only bit is the SIM card and the side ramp which are wicked. But otherwise DI is a dream shooting pin.

I’d only worry if Houdini could have the frustration factor meaning if someone was not a pinball wizard might get frustrated bricking too many shots.

I know other pins are punishing and great fun like TWD but there are also pins that are punishing and not so much fun.

I’d say shooting wise DI wins hands down.

Theme is debatable some don’t care for DI.

This would all depend on the one person who owns/buys the pin. I mean most people disliked Avengers sold quickly or never bought but there are also some who LOVE Avengers.

Of course it's biased..... Its my opinion ; )

Seriously though no one has to agree - just giving you my input based on experience.

There is something off with how the flippers feel like a delay or something. I'm not the only one who's felt that - Nick on Buffalo Pinball mentioned the same.

Art style I've always not liked it and it hasn't gotten any better.

both are fun games to different people.

I really am just pointing out the facts. Based on polls and popular opinion, most people prefer DI.
Based on sales and secondary market continually going down on Houdini, reality of sales seems to match the poll.

I am glad people like different games. That is part of the fun of pinball and I always enjoy playing a game that someone else loves and sharing in their geek out for what they like in the game.

That does not change the fact that Houdini is not selling well on the secondary and my advice stands to wait this one out till it settles. The biggest thing I see with the plethora of new games coming out all the time, is any new game perceived as less than great by the majority of the community is going to drop quite a bit. What used to be a 10% drop is quickly becoming a 25% drop. There is only so much space and money for 5k plus games and whatever Stern sets the Pro pricing at seems to be a solid reference point that people use as comparison purposes when deciding what takes space and money. I will say that Stern has also jacked up Pro pricing beyond what most are comfortable with, which is why I think we see less than great used Sterns in the 4k range and holding steady.

Agree with what you said in both posts without question. Especially resale values.

both are fun games to different people.This is what its all about!!Like I said,if any of you are coming up to my area,come and check out Houdini,here for yourself!! We have a special tournament at a barcade here called "The Dip" we play usually first sunday of the month! 4-PM till you crap out $ 10.00 buy in! My Arcade is 20 min.away! Lake Shasta is also 20 min.away for summer campers!See for yourself!Have fun,B safe!!!!

Agreed. Economically, there is going to be some kinda weird downturn to this hobby. We're not collecting stamps here, we're adding 300lbs of industrial grade vending equipment to our homes. It used to only really ever made sense when enthusiasts were picking up bargain priced pins from arcades that were closing or changing over to video. These economics made it reasonable for private (not-rich) collectors to exist. It was extremely rare for someone to buy a NIB Adams Family directly for their home. Kinda seemed crazy... would anyone now buy 2 or 3 Coke machines, a couple snack machines and a jukebox for your home?!? That's what purchasing a brand new commercial pinball machine would have felt like back in the day.

And yet now we are putting in our homes equipment and pay prices like we're commercial vendors. Is this even "collecting" anymore? Where's the "hobby" in it? If it really is true that home buyers are outpacing vendors, then there is no way this keeps going. ALL manufacturers have a limited time before there's a bottleneck and nothing is moving. I can't buy anything new or recently new until I start selling off my collection of vintage 90's pins. Except- oh wait- those aren't rare anymore. They're being remade.

To bring it home, I have to be obsessive now about which pin- Houdini or Dialed-in- will be the "perfect" replacement for another beloved pin that I have to try and sell. That's too unrealistic of a threshold and so now I buy neither and wait for perfection.... which... will never come.

So has it been decided yet which of these would make a better boat anchor?

The one with o-din tied to it!

HEYOOOOOH! BA DA BOOM!

I'd be more interested in the one that floats.

I think you want that "young poop" thread then. No floaties here.

Happy Friday man!

These two games sit next to each other in my basement, and were both bought new in box. I took a few weeks with both games before making comments:

- Dialed In (I have the LE) is a masterpiece. Comparing any game to DI is going to be extremely tough. I also really don't understand the gripes about the theme. As someone else said, "If Dialed In is about a cell phone, Twilight Zone is about a clock and gumball machine".
- Houdini, when set up correctly in the home environment, is definitely an above average game. It can be challenging, but once the flippers are turned down some, shots become easier. Playing a successful game of Houdini feels better than playing a successful game of DI (partially I admit because it happens less often). My wife is a notice player btw, and loves Houdini (barely plays DI)
- I had considerably more issues with my NIB Dialed In LE, then my NIB Houdini. Customer service for both has been outstanding.
- Determing resale value of any machine is tough when they are still offered NIB. Pinside has seen DI LE for $7500 (https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/65949 - a $1500 discount), and Houdini for $6250 (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-houdini-22 - a $750 discount). To me, even at those prices, I'd rather have NIB. This may seem silly to some, but buying from dealers that do this every day and having a dedicated warranty is worth the extra money to me (plus unboxing is fun!). For that matter, even all time classic (remake) games like AFMr and MMr sell at a significant discount compared to NIB. So I don't think game quality is absolutely the best predictor of resale values when they are still being offered NIB.

Overall, I won't argue Dialed In is a better game then Houdini. But only because Dialed In may be the best pinball machine I have ever played, and certainly top 3. Houdini is an awesome game, and because of it's difficultly, may actually end up staying longer in my collection than easier games.

Yeah i have no doubt of that.