Except for Hobbit. It took a hit once people played it for a while and realized it wasn't good. The newer code has helped, but it's still the worst resale of all the JJPs.

And cost $2k more than Houdini new. Nothing to brag about. A bigger drop.

jjPotC isn't the crappy Hobbit. But even acknowledging that, it's hard to make your statement definitively. We're definitely getting to a saturation point on new pins that is starting to affect the used market pricing.

Word.

Plus, if Deeproot isn't actually a disaster it will only accelerate this trend by adding even more pins to the annual mix. We're talking like 12 or so new pins a year (spitballing: 4 Stern (cornerstone+vault), 2 JJP, 2 AP, 1-2 Spooky, 1 CGC, 2 Deeproot), which is way too much for the current base IMO.

This is a good time to mention that it's been almost 10 weeks with zero Beatles Gold sales on the beatles official site. Beatles fans are not dumb, and not that into pinball. So hopefully this is the end of the action figure pack marketing model.

You can't compare a Stern LE to a JJP LE. They're not the same levels since the companies use different terminology.

JJP CE = Stern LE
JJP LE = Stern Premium
JJP Standard = Stern Pro

What's so funny? I was explaining the tiers at the two companies (as was 100% clear from the full context, not the one line you quoted), not implying that a Stern Pro can sniff the balls of a JJP Standard in build quality or features/toys.

Toyota's warehousing pins now?

I'll take a dirt cheap Shadow, please. Already have the new playfield.

Agree with all your other points and think Houdini is actually a great strategic game in a collection, but Houdini playfields ARE cracking and chipping at the scoop because AP cheaped out and didn't put a cliffy there to protect the lip from hard kickouts (from the inconsistent kicker strength). They could have easily prevented it, and I warned them it was a trouble spot after playing it at Pinagogo like 6 months before release. Unfortunately it looks like Oktoberfest will be the same setup, so at least some owners will have the playfields crack and/or chip at the lip in front of the bevel.

Having protracted Stern vs JJP pissing match in an AP thread. Classic Pinside.

Yeah, but it was in the boondocks way up in Maine, hence the price. For 90% of the pinball community that's $300 minimum in shipping and if you're west coast, $500, which puts it at the $5100-$5300 range out of pocket, right in the range you'd expect for a play and dump new pro release.

Nope. I see casuals hitting them all the time on the route machine because they do not have the muscle memory that is messing up the shot for experienced players shooting for where their ingrained memory tells them the fan shot should be. More experience is actually an impediment on Houdini. Casuals that play it exclusively on the route I help with do quite well on it.