(Topic ID: 236185)

Houdini ...... talk about taking a nose dive


By hoby1

64 days ago



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  • 345 posts
  • 123 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 44 days ago by yancy
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There are 345 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 7.
#301 52 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Thats how API recommends the setup.
6.0 to 6.2 degres.
Im at about 6.1 right now.

Dang I didn't know that. I have mine set up with the levelers similar to a Stern or Williams game. It plays fine...

#302 52 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

Dang I didn't know that. I have mine set up with the levelers similar to a Stern or Williams game. It plays fine...

I had mine setup pretty high initially but, after a few hundred plays have lowered it and lowered the flipper power.
Im pretty happy with it at 6.1-6.2

Fewer airballs off the standups and fewer stage rejects.
Game play is less affected than one would think. Its not slower.

#303 52 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

So you screwed yours all the way down? (Not to get too personal!)

lol - well my floor isn't level, so no - but I did raise them up a touch, so I think i'm at 6.2 or 6.3. I can't remember now, it's been 6 months or so - but I think screwed all the way in is at 6

#304 51 days ago

I haven't played Houdini, so I don't have an opinion, but I'm feeling left out so making a pointless post, much like many before it.

Also, cars.

#305 51 days ago

Houdini is a great game and better than IJTPA in my opinion. A lot of whining about tight shots, post hits and rejected shots and geometry. Every single shot can be made from the flippers so this geometry argument is halarious. Just words.

Now let’s take Indiana Jones where there are many many similarities. I’ll argue that the widebody frame that IJ is sitting in is wasted with only 7 real shots. The whole left side of the main playfield could have had another lane or even a cross shot to a subway. That’s another matter though. My point being that the playable area width is nearly identical or close to it. (Actually IJs is narrower than Houdini by quite a bit). The captive ball shot is nearly identical to the stage shot in length, angle and width. IJs right orbit shot is as tight, pop bumpers are pretty much in the same place and very little goes on there besides Indy rollovers. The shot behind the 3 drop target bank frequently gets rejected as well as the mode shot where people have had to modify it with foam and other things. The post hits in IJ are like skipping a rock off a pond where you hit multiples and at least Houdini lets you score points and advance a mode with the posts.

I find Houdini leaps and bounds more interesting yet Indy sits in the top 10. Maybe more that it’s a pop culture icon than a good pinball? Don’t even get me started on the disapointment that is AFM.

#306 51 days ago
Quoted from WW2GURU:

Don’t even get me started on the disapointment that is AFM.

AFM bricks so many shots its not even funny.
Mine has the shortest ball times in my collection! lol

And yet, I keep coming back for more. Its pinball!

#307 51 days ago

You make a very valid point here.

#308 51 days ago
Quoted from Zablon:

I haven't played Houdini, so I don't have an opinion, but I'm feeling left out so making a pointless post, much like many before it.
Also, cars.

Please dont feel left out.

There is a webcaster who played 1 ball and didnt finish it, and STILL DID A REVIEW! Lol.

Evidently you dont even have to play, or even see a Houdini in order to bash it.

LOL !!!

Good times!

#309 51 days ago
Quoted from pinlawyer:

That much is true. No ripoff with AP and everything is VERY well done except the geometry. I’m still a fan of AP and, upon reports that Oktoberfest is more playable, will buy one.

You think it's the geometry? I've had the game few weeks now and feel its just the entrances to the loops/shots. When I look at my other games the loops and ramps have a wider opening at the mouth whereas Houdini doesn't. This makes for a harder shot (imo) as well as bounce outs (especially the Milk Can).

I actually like the game but certainly understand people's gripes with it. These "flaws" keep this game from being a great game!

Look forward to Oktoberfest and Houdini is not going anywhere as I still like it!

#310 51 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

Dang I didn't know that. I have mine set up with the levelers similar to a Stern or Williams game. It plays fine...

I prefer mine at around 6.5 or a touch less.

#311 51 days ago
Quoted from WW2GURU:

Houdini is a great game and better than IJTPA in my opinion. A lot of whining about tight shots, post hits and rejected shots and geometry. Every single shot can be made from the flippers so this geometry argument is halarious. Just words.
Now let’s take Indiana Jones where there are many many similarities. I’ll argue that the widebody frame that IJ is sitting in is wasted with only 7 real shots. The whole left side of the main playfield could have had another lane or even a cross shot to a subway. That’s another matter though. My point being that the playable area width is nearly identical or close to it. (Actually IJs is narrower than Houdini by quite a bit). The captive ball shot is nearly identical to the stage shot in length, angle and width. IJs right orbit shot is as tight, pop bumpers are pretty much in the same place and very little goes on there besides Indy rollovers. The shot behind the 3 drop target bank frequently gets rejected as well as the mode shot where people have had to modify it with foam and other things. The post hits in IJ are like skipping a rock off a pond where you hit multiples and at least Houdini lets you score points and advance a mode with the posts.
I find Houdini leaps and bounds more interesting yet Indy sits in the top 10. Maybe more that it’s a pop culture icon than a good pinball? Don’t even get me started on the disapointment that is AFM.

This is a really well written comparison! I'd like to hear your thoughts on AFM. I do feel the ratings don't match with my own feelings, and wonder how they've shifted just over the past few years on here. I'm not nearly as much a fan of the top three on this board, and often scratch my head at how and why they're all rated so highly. They all feel very much, in your face, not just with presentation, but also gameplay and modes.

10
#312 51 days ago
Quoted from wesman:

This is a really well written comparison! I'd like to hear your thoughts on AFM. I do feel the ratings don't match with my own feelings, and wonder how they've shifted just over the past few years on here. I'm not nearly as much a fan of the top three on this board, and often scratch my head at how and why they're all rated so highly. They all feel very much, in your face, not just with presentation, but also gameplay and modes.

Not sure if you’ve played a lot of AFM. I had not played a lot before buying AFM on reputation and recomdation.

Basically (many) games share a similar layout 2 loops, two side ramps. I mean AcDc, Met, IM etc. games differ in places but the orbits and ramps are fairly similar.

AFM seems nothing special but has a third ramp/diverter that effectively creates two different shots in place of typical one shot AFM thus has two scoops, three ramps, two orbits and center drop bank in a standard not crowded layout.

I’m not saying AFM is alone in making more shots fit in a standard game area other games like Tron fit a third ramp and inner loop shot into the mix by adding a third flipper.

Anyway the shots/geometry all work on AFM there’s not a bad feeling shot to be found. But the genius of AFM is the code, how it can make a simple 3 shots to the ramp or three shots to the orbit or 50 hits of the pop bumpers makes all these basic things seem important and eventful. If you’re not impressed with 3 shots to the ramp or orbits being that big of a deal (one shot hurry up) you can work on combining 2,3,4 shot hurry ups together into a grand hurry up. Heck even to make a 5-way conbo is important and something you notice every time you hit 2,3,4 way combo you are cognizant of the 5-way combo. That’s not all but there are countless ways to put a game of AFM together as you work towards Rule The Universe.

AFM is so basic, not cluttered like MM or some other pins. You can almost see everything in front of you. It’s a masterpiece of precision and simplicity.

#313 51 days ago
Quoted from RTS:

You make a very valid point here.

Absolutely-

Quoted from meSz:

You think it's the geometry? I've had the game few weeks now and feel its just the entrances to the loops/shots. When I look at my other games the loops and ramps have a wider opening at the mouth whereas Houdini doesn't. This makes for a harder shot (imo) as well as bounce outs (especially the Milk Can).
I actually like the game but certainly understand people's gripes with it. These "flaws" keep this game from being a great game!
Look forward to Oktoberfest and Houdini is not going anywhere as I still like it!

It can help TONS that you position the small blue targets around the ramp and inner loop precisely. You can sort of tilt them out of the way, or re-align them by unscrewing from below the playfield. Just normal factory tweaking stuff, but it’s crucial on this game since there are so many close shots.

Just played MB and Houdini back to back . Both rule!

#314 51 days ago
Quoted from rai:

Not sure if you’ve played a lot of AFM. I had not played a lot before buying AFM on reputation and recomdation.
Basically (many) games share a similar layout 2 loops, two side ramps. I mean AcDc, Met, IM etc. games differ in places but the orbits and ramps are fairly similar.
AFM seems nothing special but has a third ramp/diverter that effectively creates two different shots in place of typical one shot AFM thus has two scoops, three ramps, two orbits and center drop bank in a standard not crowded layout.
I’m not saying AFM is alone in making more shots fit in a standard game area other games like Tron fit a third ramp and inner loop shot into the mix by adding a third flipper.
Anyway the shots/geometry all work on AFM there’s not a bad feeling shot to be found. But the genius of AFM is the code, how it can make a simple 3 shots to the ramp or three shots to the orbit or 50 hits of the pop bumpers makes all these basic things seem important and eventful. If you’re not impressed with 3 shots to the ramp or orbits being that big of a deal (one shot hurry up) you can work on combining 2,3,4 shot hurry ups together into a grand hurry up. Heck even to make a 5-way conbo is important and something you notice every time you hit 2,3,4 way combo you are cognizant of the 5-way combo. That’s not all but there are countless ways to put a game of AFM together as you work towards Rule The Universe.
AFM is so basic, not cluttered like MM or some other pins. You can almost see everything in front of you. It’s a masterpiece of precision and simplicity.

You feel MM is cluttered in comparison?

That's a great write-up also! I'm going to look back and forth at what you've written here, while playing some on my Switch. Not a great direct comparison, but I'd like to see what you're referring to more regarding this third ramp/diverter aspect.

I've usually found playing AFM is so aggressive call out wise, and pop art wise, that I can't find the depth past that, with all of the combo shots and layout methodologies you've mentioned here. I'm not a great player, mind you, and my technique certainly doesn't allow for enjoyment past superficiality I'm afraid at times.

#315 51 days ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

You can sort of tilt them out of the way, or re-align them by unscrewing from below the playfield

I elongated the hole in the mounting brackets of the C target and second E target to move them each outwards from the lane about 3/16" each.

Widening the inner loop lane 3/8"

Now the lane is wider than a lot of games.

None of the other lanes need adjusting, they are easy to make.

This has substantially changed gameplay for the better!

My game flows like butter!

11
#316 51 days ago
Quoted from Platypus:

Not everybody is going to like every game but people don't have to be a whiny bitches about it.

I have friends who have literally stopped using pinside due to "too many whiny bitches". It didn't used to be so bad.

#317 51 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I elongated the hole in the mounting brackets of the C target and second E target to move them each outwards from the lane about 3/16" each.
Widening the inner loop lane 3/8"
Now the lane is wider than a lot of games.
None of the other lanes need adjusting, they are easy to make.
This has substantially changed gameplay for the better!
My game flows like butter!

Yeah this is similar to what we did. The outer right orbit can be super narrow and still easy to hit by hitting the ball on the rail and letting the rail do the rest. The lock shot is now slightly easier and that is all that is needed to make the game play much better.

20
#318 50 days ago

Think back to the early 2000s when Stern was the sole supplier putting out fairly cheap, clip art games . . .

We can all complain and I am one of them . . .

Am I upset at Stern, that my home Star Wars LE does not have a real backglass, lighted side rails, etc. and board burned out due to a code update, my Star Wars Premium looks weak next to the Star Trek Premium by its side in my arcade, Ghostbusters has unfinished code, Iron Maiden / Batman Coil Stops needed to be replaced after a few thousand plays because they are crappy . . .

Or at Jersey Jack because my Wizard of Oz sat in the back of the arcade waiting for parts weeks on end or the POTC CE has had more issues (auto fire, broken springs, etc.) than you can shake a stick at . . .

Am I disappointed that my Houdini is worth less than I paid for it? Not really . . .

My point is that a rising tide raises all ships. We now have multiple suppliers each pushing each other to do great things.

I purchased Houdini, because I loved that AP (Josh) was the only vendor really present at the Denver Show that was willing to interact with the public. I loved that they interacted on pinside with code / repair issues. Have I had a few challenges out of the box or been frustrated with the game? Sure. But, it is a beautiful game with great powder coat, toys, challenge, light show, code, etc.

I also took the challenge that "the game is too tough". I feel I'm a better than average player and felt that learning to make tight shots would make me a better player (it has). There are tons of ways to play this game and it is loads of fun. I sold my Theatre of Magic (got bored fast) for this game and do not regret it all.

Perhaps I could have waited and purchased a 2nd hand one cheaper. Buy as a collector and arcade operator, I'm happy to support a company pushing the limits and trying new things. Long live Pinball

#319 50 days ago
Quoted from PrinzFred:

Think back to the early 2000s when Stern was the sole supplier putting out fairly cheap, clip art games . . .
We can all complain and I am one of them . . .
Am I upset at Stern, that my home Star Wars LE does not have a real backglass, lighted side rails, etc. and board burned out due to a code update, my Star Wars Premium looks weak next to the Star Trek Premium by its side in my arcade, Ghostbusters has unfinished code, Iron Maiden / Batman Coil Stops needed to be replaced after a few thousand plays because they are crappy . . .
Or at Jersey Jack because my Wizard of Oz sat in the back of the arcade waiting for parts weeks on end or the POTC CE has had more issues (auto fire, broken springs, etc.) than you can shake a stick at . . .
Am I disappointed that my Houdini is worth less than I paid for it? Not really . . .
My point is that a rising tide raises all ships. We now have multiple suppliers each pushing each other to do great things.
I purchased Houdini, because I loved that AP (Josh) was the only vendor really present at the Denver Show that was willing to interact with the public. I loved that they interacted on pinside with code / repair issues. Have I had a few challenges out of the box or been frustrated with the game? Sure. But, it is a beautiful game with great powder coat, toys, challenge, light show, code, etc.
I also took the challenge that "the game is too tough". I feel I'm a better than average player and felt that learning to make tight shots would make me a better player (it has). There are tons of ways to play this game and it is loads of fun. I sold my Theatre of Magic (got bored fast) for this game and do not regret it all.
Perhaps I could have waited and purchased a 2nd hand one cheaper. Buy as a collector and arcade operator, I'm happy to support a company pushing the limits and trying new things. Long live Pinball

Nice to See some major positivity here.. not
Just for Houdini, but in general!
Some

#320 50 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I elongated the hole in the mounting brackets of the C target and second E target to move them each outwards from the lane about 3/16" each.
Widening the inner loop lane 3/8"
Now the lane is wider than a lot of games.
None of the other lanes need adjusting, they are easy to make.
This has substantially changed gameplay for the better!
My game flows like butter!

Did the same, huge difference in play.

#321 49 days ago

I love Houdini....I hate Houdini. I have great games on Houdini....I have terrible games on Houdini. I want to kick Houdini....I want to hug Houdini.
That to me is what will keep this game in my collection for a very long time.
Rewarding and frustrating. Perfect.

#322 49 days ago

“Munsters Pro ...... talk about taking a nose dive” thread coming soon.

#323 49 days ago
Quoted from jp1985:

“Munsters Pro ...... talk about taking a nose dive” thread coming soon.

"ACNC ... talk about taking a nose dive, shots are too tight, geometry is off" thread coming ... eventually.

alicegolfing01 (resized).jpg
#324 48 days ago

I really like the looks and theme of Houdini. I really want to love Houdini. But, I don't. I played at least a dozen games on one yesterday and it just isn't a game for me. I understand now all of the criticisms about how it shoots. That milk can shot, for example, requires a 'freak of nature' to make. I also understand how many have said playing Houdini has made them better players. For me, it would make for great anger management therapy. Too bad 'cuz I really wanted to love the game....

#325 48 days ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

"ACNC ... talk about taking a nose dive, shots are too tight, geometry is off" thread coming ... eventually.[quoted image]

Well, first they will actually have to get some rolling off the assembly line in some kind of numbers and into the hands of someone other than their loyal customers. I guess by "shipping in June!" they meant 2019...

#326 48 days ago
Quoted from arcadem:

I really like the looks and theme of Houdini. I really want to love Houdini. But, I don't. I played at least a dozen games on one yesterday and it just isn't a game for me. I understand now all of the criticisms about how it shoots. That milk can shot, for example, requires a 'freak of nature' to make. I also understand how many have said playing Houdini has made them better players. For me, it would make for great anger management therapy. Too bad 'cuz I really wanted to love the game....

It's too bad the game you played wasn't setup properly.

I can make the milk can shot 19 of 20 times in a row with little difficulty on my game.

People who have never played pinball before have no trouble making the shot on my game.

Sorry you haven't played a properly setup game, that sucks.

You are welcome to come play my game!

#327 48 days ago
Quoted from arcadem:

I really like the looks and theme of Houdini. I really want to love Houdini. But, I don't. I played at least a dozen games on one yesterday and it just isn't a game for me. I understand now all of the criticisms about how it shoots. That milk can shot, for example, requires a 'freak of nature' to make. I also understand how many have said playing Houdini has made them better players. For me, it would make for great anger management therapy. Too bad 'cuz I really wanted to love the game....

I occasionally play Houdini 'out in the wild', and they don't feel the same as mine at home. Don't know if it's leveling, what the skill level setting is set at, flipper power, etc. But no doubt about it, not as fun as mine.

The milk can shot is really not that difficult, you just need to play enough to find the flipper's sweet spot - but still I have some that bounce out. If the skill level is set to easy, you still get the credit for the milk can shot if you hit the mystery target. When I first saw the milk can at VFW last year, I thought I would never be able to hit that shot, but in the end not a big deal.

#328 48 days ago
Quoted from arcadem:

That milk can shot, for example, requires a 'freak of nature' to make.

When I was installing the plastic protectors and Cliffy protectors, I had that area exposed. I bent the guide on the back side of the milk can shot so the guide is as close as possible and actually touching the rubber post at the entry. It literally only moved a couple of millimeters but it made a big difference on the number of rejections at the entry. I can honestly make this shot nice and clean at a good rate now where before I got a lot of rejections and basically hit it by luck or off the right slingshot.

#329 48 days ago

how a machine is set up has everything to do with how a game plays, one thing I sometimes notice is that flippers may not be set at the proper height (especially may droop). On my DI when I got it, I could only make the side ramp shot like once in a blue moon, after I adjusted the flipper hight it was much easier, still not a very easy shot but not super hard.

#330 48 days ago

Thanks to all for your advice on making shots on Houdini. I guess I will need to keep an open mind on the game and give it another try 'cuz I really do want to love it. But, Oktoberfest is getting a lot of my attention too. Maybe a distributor can offer some kind of a package deal on a left over Houdini and an Oktoberfest. That would be very tempting.

#331 45 days ago

What I like about Houdini is that you can easily change the flipper/pop/scoop eject power. It makes it REALLY EASY to get it dialed in just the way you want it.

I'm a little bummed about all the "hate hype" with pinball.

16
#332 45 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I can make the milk can shot 19 of 20 times in a row with little difficulty on my game.

Post a video of you making that shot 19 of 20 times and I'll PayPal you $100. Easy money.

#333 45 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Post a video of you making that shot 19 of 20 times and I'll PayPal you $100. Easy money.

Suddenly this thread has become interesting!

#334 45 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Post a video of you making that shot 19 of 20 times and I'll PayPal you $100. Easy money.

Especially if he possesses any good video editing skills!

#335 45 days ago
Quoted from yancy:

Post a video of you making that shot 19 of 20 times and I'll PayPal you $100. Easy money.

I'll have to up my one handed game lol!

But seriously, once the game is dialed In, and remember, I do have my flippers drooped 1/8", it's a pretty consistant shot and fun to do!

So, there...I cheated? Lol

Way more consistant than the scoop ejects bouncing around.

#336 45 days ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

"ACNC ... talk about taking a nose dive, shots are too tight, geometry is off" thread coming ... eventually.

As soon as everyone gets there game? I played 2 games of ACNC and that was enough for me.

#337 45 days ago
Quoted from John_I:

When I was installing the plastic protectors and Cliffy protectors, I had that area exposed. I bent the guide on the back side of the milk can shot so the guide is as close as possible and actually touching the rubber post at the entry. It literally only moved a couple of millimeters but it made a big difference on the number of rejections at the entry. I can honestly make this shot nice and clean at a good rate now where before I got a lot of rejections and basically hit it by luck or off the right slingshot.

I haven't had to bend the flatrail on my game yet. Drooping the flippers solved it nicely.

But you never know...lol

However its similar to the crystal ball shot on WOZ. I had to rework the flatrail, and grind the pop bumper ring flat as it rubs, on that to get it consistant.

Same story, endless rejects for no reason.

#338 45 days ago

Don’t let this distract you from the fact that Iron Maiden is a copy of Twilight zone. The only difference being where TZ has subway shots iron maiden has ramps. Other than that, they are halariously similar. Where as Houdini is quite original. Prove me wrong.

#339 45 days ago

You want to talk nose dive... look at the people asking for $18,000 for a cactus canyon. When Chicago comes out with this game sometime THIS YEAR, then you'll see the real nose dive.

3 Months ago people still asked over 10k for their original Monster Bash's now you can't sell those for 5 or 6. Consider CC code wasn't really complete and the new game will probably have better code, color screen, wider screen, what do you think is going to happen to the value of the originals?

Can we say NOSE DIVE? I'm think original CC will end up in the 5k range.

#340 45 days ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

You want to talk nose dive... look at the people asking for $18,000 for a cactus canyon. When Chicago comes out with this game sometime THIS YEAR, then you'll see the real nose dive.
3 Months ago people still asked over 10k for their original Monster Bash's now you can't sell those for 5 or 6. Consider CC code wasn't really complete and the new game will probably have better code, color screen, wider screen, what do you think is going to happen to the value of the originals?
Can we say NOSE DIVE? I'm think original CC will end up in the 5k range.

Unfortunately the remakes are going to end up at that 5k range too.. that game is just not that fun. Certainly nowhere near MB, MM, AFM.. or even TOM!

#341 45 days ago
Quoted from WW2GURU:

Don’t let this distract you from the fact that Iron Maiden is a copy of Twilight zone. The only difference being where TZ has subway shots iron maiden has ramps. Other than that, they are halariously similar. Where as Houdini is quite original. Prove me wrong.

It’s your hypothesis, you prove you are right...

#342 45 days ago

After all this I want to go over to my friends house to play and dig deeper into their Houdini

#343 44 days ago
Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

After all this I want to go over to my friends house to play and dig deeper into their Houdini

I wish you could come play mine.

#344 44 days ago
Quoted from WW2GURU:

Don’t let this distract you from the fact that Iron Maiden is a copy of Twilight zone. The only difference being where TZ has subway shots iron maiden has ramps. Other than that, they are halariously similar. Where as Houdini is quite original. Prove me wrong.

Loops.

#345 44 days ago

Funhouse and Tron are the same game! ...on paper.

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