bobukcat brought the up STTNG comparison not me.

Yes I see what you are saying.

Now with pins I feel the best value is to get a 1 year old or so, HUO game from a collector/player who knows how to take care of their games. Any tweaks have been likely taken care off, game is more proven and I get a discount also.

With cars I usually purchase my higher end vehicles when they are preowned 1 1/2 - 2 years old, since they have a couple years or more left on warranty and I can get a hefty amount off of MSRP new. I will keep better track of the repairs made during the “danger zone” you mentioned of owning from years 4-6 to try to get to the better feel of ice that time and see how the value of years of 7+ years is during ownership. I will look to see if those years are worth it and also in the future, look at the cost of leasing, which I have never done before. Maybe 1-2 year preowned makes sense or maybe not.

And yes - Cars are not pins and are hard to compare!!

To me it's build like a JJP, coded like Sterns finest and shoots like a Spooky

I agree with your first point but disagree that is should be modified, did I mention that I must really like torture?

I agree—shoots like a spooky. Not a good thing (TNA excepted)

I actually only compared one shot (the Borg lock) on STTNG, not the entire game - they are so different in style and play there is no other comparison other than many find it to be very difficult too.

well we can all see that the number one priority in any game is the ability for the player to make the shots. That trumps everything else. the game has everything but the ability to play. same with magic girl. looks great but it is broken.

This game is fully working and coded. It just has difficult shots. Comparing to magic girl is a slap in the face to the hard work the AP team put into this game. Completely unfair.

Amen, and no one was scammed out of any $$ by AP either - totally unfair comparison.

For the occassional pinball player Houdini is a very difficult game to play. If you love deep code and challenging shots you will enjoy it. When my wife (occassional pinball player) and I went to recently play one on location she just couldn't get into it as the shots are so close together. She can play WOZ, Star Trek, Hobbit, Monster Bash, etc and at least make some shots in those games. By the time we stopped playing she said "I'm glad you didn't buy that game"....

The animation quality could also be better and some feel like they drag on a bit too much. Build quality on the game is incredible and the powder coat seems very well done. Personally I like the challenge Houdini offers and can still see picking one up down the road when I have room for more pins.

I have not had the luck with BMW I have had with Mercedes Benz.

2012 335d - had seat belt failures all the way until they made it a lemon.

2014 535d - turbo blown 2x less than 50k miles

Both great to drive, incredible mpg and I loved the overall experience but....

2015 MB GL 350d - 178,000 miles only wear items replaced. One CV boot on air suspension replaced. That's it.

2016 MB GL 350d- 100k miles, nothing but routine maintenance so far

2018 G65 - not many miles, no issue yet. First gas MB so we will see.

Either way, point is everyone has their own experiences, including with the Houdini pinball. I personally think it looks great. People play it on location consistently. It's not the top earner at any location and it was only for a short time when it was first released. It has only had one issue for me on one machine that was fixed in 4 hours. 1 issue on 1 game out of 4 units. Overall im happy. I guess I don't look at the resale side and I understand why home collectors do. If you are not going to like losing money on a game, this is not the title for you.

That much is true. No ripoff with AP and everything is VERY well done except the geometry. I’m still a fan of AP and, upon reports that Oktoberfest is more playable, will buy one.

All this bashing of Houdini being so difficult...yeah, the shots are "challenging"...keeps me coming back for more, improves my "marksmanship" and Lord knows, I need it...I play the game often and expect it will reside in my collection for quite some time. As to the animation...in my opinion it is spot on perfect. It reflects the animation of the time Houdini existed...obviously this was intentional. I think Houdini is a good machine, I like it...it has a lot going on.

Some people have pointed out that Houdini has tight, difficult shots. I don't see anyone in this thread bashing Houdini for being too difficult. This strawman stuff really needs to stop, because it doesn't help anyone.

Some people simply don't like this game despite it having several virtues that have also been discussed at great length. Based on the game's sales, that's most people.

Oh yeah. I won't buy another BMW. Lease one maybe. I've had this one for 15 years and like you I don't drive that much it has 180K on it but its fading fast. The last couple years have been expensive. I just don't see the anaolgy with JJP vs Stern. Who cares anyway.

Well someone did compare it Magic Girl, if that's not bashing I don't know what is, LOL!

Fair enough

(But the point is really about bashing it for being too difficult.)

Ok, "bashing" may have been the wrong word to use...I am just following the comments and many comments are about how tight/difficult the shots are or how bad the geometry is...there have been many posters who have mentioned this...hard not to see this as a negative. The whole point of my post was to show MY support for Houdini despite these comments.

Thumbs up to all that.

While it's hard to see a game you like bashed repeatedly, the only people that this doesn't happen to are people with boring cookie cutter taste. I don't like Houdini, but there are lots of games I like enough to own that most people here would feel the same way about as I do about Houdini.

LOL. If that one thread makes you change your mind about buying from a company. You haven’t been around long then. Just dig up any of the old Ghostbusters playfield threads. You’ll never buy another Stern again.

Did Stern not send out new playfields, free of charge?

In many cases. It was solely up to them as to what they decided to replace.

Pinball is not an investment, buy the game because you like the game, not because of money.

Correct. Second owners were not permitted to get replacements. First owners damage had to reach a certain threshold before replacement. Some people did not get theirs replaced.

It was a roll of the dice. Some did some didn't. And this was many people not just one thread.

I actually second this. A good example is RZ. Playing it on route or the ones I have had before tweaking, it was not pretty. Right now I am still trying to tweak my vuk shot as the ball is airballing off the small jump ramp and bouncing off the wireform back down the orbit on a solid hit. Pre and post tweaking the game goes from a dud to a very competent machine. In addition the single biggest change is just dialing in the audio as the factory speakers/amp are beyond what anyone else uses.

Just Ghostbusters? Stern has a track record of nib headaches. Chicago Coin has its own history, newest being the cab decals tearing buddies nib mb tore within days of opening. Their solution? Send a new decal that he can install himself... JJP had plenty of problems too (WOZ playfields that flaked, lightboard issues, etc). Just about every manufacturer has some negative press in their past.

That said, I'd buy from AP, Spooky, or JJP at this point. Will not touch a new stern with a 10 foot pole. Would rather let someone else buy one, give it a year or two to know it doesn't have issues. Stern can go stuff themselves. Chicago coin is too hit or miss (mmr playfields with too little black ink, tearing cab decals).

I had my best game on Houdini when I wasn't really trying...I was kind of casually playing while talking to a friend...and I was just hitting every shot, the milk can shot over and over, and had a 15 min game and got Grand Champion.

I think I'll start a car thread and see if some pinball related material gets posted in it...

I totally disagree with your accusations. Whats your beef really.

The power supply issue is hardly and issue with most owners. It is not necessary but it adds resiliency and consistency, In my case my house electrical voltage varies considerably. AP's offer to provide a regulated power supply at what is essentially half cost was generous considering the game works without it.

I am a second owner and have gotten great service from AP. While I have had no warranty issues I have received prompt service in other dealings with them. Barry has responded within a few hours whenever I contacted him.

Frankly I don't understand the point of this Houdini bashing. Most owners seem to really like it, my novice friends beg to come over and play it. For those of you who don't like the game Why do you have to be so hateful? I really dislike some of the modern Sterns but instead of publicly bashing Walking Dead and Iron Maiden I just don't bother playing them, keep my mouth shut and move on.

Not everybody is going to like every game but people don't have to be a whiny bitches about it.

Have you really been on Pinside for 3 years?

I think what's weirdest/least constructive about it, is creating a specific thread to be solely critical of it, and bash it's retail/second hand value? Ideally we all want pinball to succeed and flourish, and I feel AP has jumped into this ring, and went toe to toe, regarding production, quality, and above all....a NON licensed theme, in a genuinely successful manner.

If I had any issue with any manufacturer, it's Stern. Putting 4 games out a year, turns a nice boon, into a glut the market most likely won't be able to sustain for years to come. Ideally, I want a table or two a year from many companies, and cheering on AP, as well as being critical like any other manufacturer...when necessary...is essential in maintaining that balance of production and needed competition.

Yeah, you clearly don’t understand what goes on around here.

Everybody says they want NON licensed themes and then they don't buy them.

I generally ignore the bitch threads and and hang out on the tech side of this forum, But I have a personal interest in Houdini.

That's because "Everybody" are older pinball fans who love the older games, and would never spend NIB money on a pin. They wanna put quarters in one, sure...but they're not buyers.

202 pinsiders have Houdini on their wish list.

These same people say to do something different!

Kill the fan layout!

Make the balls out of cheddar!

Lol

I guess bashing on Houdini after you played 1 ball on it at a show on crooked concrete with 95v fluctuating power and beta code is important for some...

Houdini is amazing, fun and very playable. It gets more play than any other game in my small collection.

People look forward to coming over just to play it.

My game plays really smooth.

So bash away! It makes me chuckle.

API and team have performed a miracle of speed and design.

@barryj and @rosh have been unbelievably helpful and attentive.
They approach pinball with professionalism, passion and humor.

API is fortunate to have them.

Houdini is truly a classic and stands on its own.

Love it or hate it, it's a great game.

Nope, not "just Ghostbusters" Was on my cell phone so didn't want to type out a encyclopedia of all the faults from every manufacturer for the 20 years since I've been in the hobby. Yes there were many, many things and times where people were told to go pound sand. Many, many issues from ((((ALL)))) manufacturers with NIB and there still are. Just kills me hearing people trying to judge a company from a handful of others that complained about something. I look at it this way, 90% of the buyers that are satisfied with their purchase will not take the time to make a thread to praise the game. But 90% of dis-satisfied customers will.

PS. lets not forget the MMRLE razor sharp side rails and clear chipping where they sent you a piece of sand paper and a small bottle of clear.

Agree

What does "snarf" mean in this context?

Snarf is a character on Thundercats

Well a lot of times it's their first exposure to the game; so setting it up like shit doesn't do anyone any favors.

I don't think that's an entirely invalid point. I'm a very average, sub par player currently, and own Houdini, and I know I'd enjoy it more with shots I could make initially more easily.

That said on the other hand....if I could nail every shot with ease, would I want to own this for long?

Definitely balance is key, and I'm genuinely not skilled enough to gauge where the balance should lie for entry level to higher level players. But at least this is on one side of a scale, possibly, and something like the Munsters or MM or AFM is on the other side of the scale.

But unfortunately, sometimes thats the way its done...

Unfortunately this has greatly contributed to Houdini performance on location - there are 3 Houdini’s on location near me - and all 3 were set up poorly. Not levelled, but also set up too steep, and both obviously have a major effect on performance. I don’t doubt this is common.

AP tried to make the game perfectly set up when all levellers screwed all the way in - but as soon as you have an uneven floor, it gets out of whack. The game is also set up to play at 6 to 6.2 pitch - not 6.5, and that is kinda weird, so I think it gets overloooked by ops

zzz...

This is what happens when people buy games without playing it.

So you screwed yours all the way down? (Not to get too personal!)

Thats how API recommends the setup.

6.0 to 6.2 degres.
Im at about 6.1 right now.