Much like JJP cracking and chipping

People have been saying this for years... I am still waiting...

Much like Stern, Much like CGC, Much like....

Although there are a small few things people quibble with on Houdini (fonts, animations, chipping playfield near scoops, etc), there is honestly only one real flaw with Houdini - shots are too tight/geometry is off. Were this single thing not a problem Houdini would be an all time great game - it has the code, rules, immersion, lights, art, mechs, etc. Some players just hate how it shoots (they’re right about it not being an A+ shooter) but then see other problems that are really marginal at best. For example, it’s silly to say a catapult shot across the play field is boring because it’s been done before (certainly it hasn’t been done as impressively before), when Stern layouts are copied over and over again.

Exactly, so why pick on AP. Pretty damn good effort for first game

Agreed, I am not a great player and I really enjoyed it.

100% agreed. The shots being too tight is the only thing really concerning about the game. Everything else is just nitpicking.
Being their first game and having it done from scratch in about 6 months was a fantastic job. Can’t wait to play their second game.

If it’s not a wide open fan layout like most pins so people whine about it

Then, like Munsters, it’s “too easy”

TWD is a tight brutal game that takes a while to master. Part of what makes it great

I LOVE the looks of Ocktoberfest. I think it’s gonna be a real sleeper hit

I agree. I thought it shot great at Pincinnati. They reworked the scoop which is great because it would reject quite a bit.

Early code, but I really enjoyed playing it and look forward to play it again at LAX.

Yes I watched your stream! Great job

I’m sure they will integrate the beer barrel and corkscrew into the code more

Thats because JJP produces the BEST pins on the market.

Im not sure what the issue with houdini is. Ive played it a few times and enjoyed it. Of course, I really enjoy playing any pinball machine because I can find interesting things about any of them.

You know, almost anything you buy new will drop in price some. Pinball for the last 5-7 years has been an exception for some reason. I see most second hand pinballs sell to some discount to new in box. Some will discount more than others. It’s only normal economics at this point.

If we compare to mid 90’s, Capcom easily had a superior product to all others out there. But sold at a discount to WPC because they were not as established.

This might slow down all these people pre buying the LE’s now just to sit on or try and flip for more $$.
Supply and demand, only so much cash chasing so many great machines. Something has to give.

Best pins on the market? They've produced 4. LOL. Stern has forgotten about pins better than JJP will ever produce. Try harder.

Quality is superior to stern in every way but comes at a price

You guys are both at the extremes and neither of you is correct. :/

That is crazy hyperbole but I would love to know what forgotten Stern he thinks is better than any current or future JJP. Is it the forgotten Borg masterpiece NBA from 2009?

Met pro it's better than any game produced by jjp.

MET pro is the best pin ever made!

I thought this was a Houdini thread???

Agree to disagree

No thread is immune to the cult of JJP

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All 25 of them lol.

Having protracted Stern vs JJP pissing match in an AP thread. Classic Pinside.

To swing this back on subject I can say I wouldn’t buy a Houdini at $5k but space is always a concern and every company makes games some people will not want to own. I’m sure it will stabilize and rebound slightly at some point.

I can't help it. The amount of newbs gushing over JJP and their apparent superiority is hilarious. Have to poke the bear. I'm done. Thanks for your patience.

Poor Houdini can't even get bashed properly in it's own thread..

Every thread anymore turns into Stern vs JJP. Even a Houdini bash thread.

Houdini was a pretty game, my wife liked it, I couldn't stand the long animations. I could see it in a bigger collection at the right price.

Butch - how long did you own the Houdini? It must have been a year ago

n/m not worth the keystrokes.

OK, Houdini is the best pin ever made!

A Munsters Pro just went for $4,800 - that was a very fast drop. I think these nose dives have more to do with the overall market and impatient sellers. There are so many new titles coming out this year. And in some areas there just are not a lot of potential buyers. If you want to make a quick sale in February of 2019 you gotta drop the price. I think some people are looking for a quick sale to make bank for their next purchase.

What next purchase to dump Munsters for though? There is literally nothing available let alone getting shown for several weeks. Even then if JJP does show at TPF it won’t be shipping for a while. Not a bath I’d like to take.

I put some play on my friend’s Houdini that he’s selling...and ya know, even though it’s not a game I’d want to buy - and even though it has its flaws, it’s far more interesting & satisfying to play than most Sterns of the past 4 years. Ben Heck is right - for a game that was created in 4 months, it’s actually quite impressive.

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I got to play Houdini recently for the first time at length.

I liked it. Enough that I would consider buying one.

Problem for me is that I have so many games, I don't think I could find a spot for it in the space that I have. There are so many good games, and while I would definitely consider one if it came up at a decent price nearby, I already have a bunch of games I can't fit in my basement that I don't know what to do with, so adding another just seems silly.

That's actually pretty funny. Pinheads are one tough crowd. Maybe if AP delays production for a year, ship with premature code, tease about things that never come about, or strip away features on production machines then they will finally be welcomed into the club.

Doesnt have to be a NIB to be the next purchase.

Yeah, but it was in the boondocks way up in Maine, hence the price. For 90% of the pinball community that's $300 minimum in shipping and if you're west coast, $500, which puts it at the $5100-$5300 range out of pocket, right in the range you'd expect for a play and dump new pro release.

Yea and few others sold fast at 5200-5300... all depends on location in many cases.

At the small local pinball show I host, this past year someone brought a Houdini. It seemed to be the most popular game at the show, especially among general attendees.

I've played it a handful of times in the past year or so, and yes, my big complaint was the tight shots, but it's still an interesting game that I would like to play more.

So, the more the price drops, the more tempted I will be to grab one.

Well I'm going to have to say it. don't buy pinball machines ever based on resale value. Why would you? I played Houdini and enjoyed it and would buy one and play it for a while then sell and yeah probably take a loss, who cares? I had my fun and I'm willing to pay for that even if its a couple G's. Oh well. With what I see other humans spending money on where there is zero return not really a big hit. Now if ur strapped for cash and need to buy extra carefully then I would say get out of this hobby all together or at least stick to used market where losses can be measured in the low 100's. Even then I know people who will consider resale. Crap in my opinion. Its supposed to be fun, its a game, Oh and about pinside and enraging JJP fanboys, might be my favorite part.

Because losing money sucks.

True, so if losing a few thousand is going to have a profound impact in your life, don’t buy NIB games with intent to break even or profit in the short term. It’s just not going to happen.

I bought a Mazda CX5 three years ago and it's worth LESS now? WTF

Cars are not pinball machines.

Always the fatal flaw in a cargument, in that whatever is being compared to a car is usually a radically different thing.

Of course not. But buying a NIB Houdini from an unproven company would be a greater risk than buying a HUO. Buying HIB Houdini is a greater risk than even a Stern NIB. There's just a greater chance of the AP pin sucking.

If you don't want to lose $, don't do it. I don't fault anyone for that logic. It's their $.

I don't follow sometimes either since I have Wrestlemania because I like it. Sometimes I don't care. Sometimes I do.

Spot on. Faulty argument for sure.

True, but the majority of items you purchase depreciate the moment you open the box. I think his point is that things depreciate. The days of pinball machines going up in value NIB on appear to be over.

Things depreciate, but cars depreciate by up to 60% of their value in 5-7 years. Pins don't do this unless you work to destroy it.

Going to hop on my pro-cargument soapbox. Sometimes a car analogy works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes a food analogy works. I don't see anyone clutch their pearls and yell "foodgument!" when someone compares a JJP CE to a steak and a Stern pro to a hamburger.

If anything, a car is almost too close a value comparison to a pin (especially these days), which forces people to clarify that no, in fact, a pinball machine is not a car. No shit Sherlock, that's why language provides analogies.

How many coils does it have?