Not sure if you've mentioned this or not, but did someone pay $175k a single Hot Wheel?

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g25616442/rarest-most-valuable-mattel-hot-wheels/

1969 Pink, Rear-Loading Beach Bomb – $175,000

Don't know if it sold for that or valued at that.

LTG : )

Hot Wheels is right in pinball's current wheelhouse. Pick a theme that is 50 years old where a game by the same name has already been done.

I had the low budget Deora with the surfboards. lol. And the red Beatnik Bandit, not the pink one.

Hot Wheels also had a larger line about 1970 called Gran Toros. And I think they had similar track for it too. They didn't seem to be very common. I think I had the Tarantula. Did anybody else collect these?

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48 hours and no independent/ Official confirmation of the rumor? No insider speculation, He said /She said?

It should have a multi storey car park for lock balls .

Or something like the Tune Up Tower. It came with a nice tool for straightening bent axles.

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I see my sarcasm was lost.

Shitty theme. AP needs a talking-to. There are a few things they do really well--perhaps better than their competitors, including software, cabinet style, and innovation. But they do suck donkey-balls at others, like GEOMETRY and those cluster-banks of little stand-up targets. In the end, I've given up on them as a company.

High speed sold 17 thousand and change. Getaway sold 13 thousand and change.

Those aren’t car brand or racing themes. One was an original theme about running from the cops, and the first pinball to have a really clear story narrative during a strong arcade era. The other was the sequel during the Addams era pin boom - everything was selling well.

This is another time. Games sell by hype, theme, and forced rarity. Manufacturers can’t be successful by waiting a few years for a location game to gain reputation. They need sales NOW to keep a factory moving. This is why Stern works. LEs insta-sell, factory moves...route games sell, factory moves, game gets reputation, which results in more route & home sales, factory moves...overlap this with multiple titles - factory always moving. Releasing an game with zero limit & stupid theme = customers wait...factory STILL. This is the reality of pinball in the modern world.

Thanks for letting us know.

Betting on a real redemption game also. Would rather see it in a Pinball though.

30 years ago, yes.

How did nascar, corvette, Indy 500, NASCAR, and Mustang do?

Car themes don’t sell and nobody wants them.

Fast and furious would do fine but that’s a movie franchise not a car franchise.

I apologize. You need to type slower for me to catch sarcasm.

LTG : )

Here is the problem... if a pinball manufacturer listened to what people on pinside said they would all go out of business. Pinside is a VERY SMALL group of overall buyers. People buy pinball games the same as they would a pool table and yet they're not a pool player. Why? Because it seems like a cool thing to add to your basement. I have a friend who's a former baseball player, he went to a store that sells high end stuff. He then just bought a pinball game strictly based on theme and artwork. This is why so many people bought Wizard of Oz. That same guy told me no one has turned on that pinball game in over a year. Its eye candy however for the basement.

Either way you can also sell pinballs to people who collect thing like Hot Wheels. Stern let the Beatles store sell the Beatles Pinball game. Why? Because they are looking for buyers in the Beatles collector world. Do you think every ACDC game was sold to someone on pinside? Are you nuts? ACDC fans bought most of those games to fill out their probably already absurd ACDC collection. The same guy who buys a rare Album cover signed by the entire band for $5000 will probably be someone to target for an ACDC game.

When Stern markets a new game like Ghostbusters probably their #1 selling game of all time... don't you think they targeted people who worship Ghostbusters? Hot Wheels has 41 million people collecting Hot Wheels.

Hot Wheels is the #1 most collected toy in HISTORY! The guy who spends $175,000 for one hot wheel is 110% buying this pinball game. Don't believe me... watch this video:

The guy created a Hot Wheel themed collection room. He does happen to have ONE PINBALL ... you guessed it HOT WHEELS!

I think the biggest issue is people on pinside do NOT understand companies make games that appeal to a base much larger than pinside. If pinside opinion mattered there would already be a Judas Priest pinball. Judas Priest would appeal to pinside as a niche pin for about 500 units or less.

Metallica probably sold well north of 5,000 units... that theme went way beyond pinball fans.

It doesn't matter if ANYONE on Pinside likes the theme, American Pinball is a company to make money. If they can find a market within the Hot Wheel collector market, some on pinside, and some who think a Hot Wheel pinball game would be a great TOY family themed game for their basement. BOOM 1500 to 2000 units are SOLD!

Hot Wheels Pinball will sell itself you'll see!

Everyone has an opinion about everything. Don't like it don't buy it. It won't change the fact there is a HUGE market for this game. NO PINBALL supplier should pick a theme to appease Kaneda or Pinside. You pick a theme that you believe can sell the most units. Clearly Oktoberfest was not the theme but Hot Wheels is! Try telling 41 million collectors Hot Wheels is a bad theme and see the reaction you get.

Home Run Theme and this game will outsell Rick and Morty by 2 to 3 times.

Every new game that comes out, people talk about how non-pinball fans will buy the machines. I don't think that ever happens to any significant degree. Pinball machines are just too expensive. You have to be really into pinball to justify buying a pinball machine, regardless of theme.

Assume you're not into watches, but you're way into pinball. What if someone made a pinball themed watch that costs $24,000. Would you buy it just because it is pinball-themed? No way, not if you're not into both pinball and watches. Maybe this is not a perfect analogy, but I think it approaches the issue.

https://wristreview.com/watch-2017-hautlence-playground-pinball-ball-e/

Well you're wrong. But that is okay. You just don't spend enough time talking to retail location. People create game rooms filled with pool tables, dart boards, air hockey, arcades and logic says grab a pinball. Those people aren't on pinside sorry to inform you. Then you have people who collect things, and want everything collectable. Stern had the Beatles store selling Beatles pinball why? To market to collectors. Clearly you didn't watch the video I posted... a guy creates a HOT WHEELS ROOM he happened to have the pinball Hot Wheels game. FYI the guy had no other pinball game. I wonder why?

On this very website only 1100 or something claim to own Wizard of Oz, over 4000 units have been sold. Where are the other thousands where did they go? Adams Family only doesn't even have 2000 games claimed on pinside where did they other 20,000 units go? Ghostbusters pro only 400 plus claim this game but this is Sterns #1 selling game ever... where are the other thousands of games? Anyone? Pirates about 540 claim to own this game from Stern, but this was up to Ghostbusters their biggest selling game EVER! I'm sure it was a 4000 plus unit game where are they other 4000 or so games... where did they go?

Most people on pinside don't even buy new in box games, they typically like to buy and sell used games. You need to get more fact based information. Pinside is NOT even close to Sterns majority of sales... not even close!

Of course there will be the odd rich collector that will buy anything that has their favorite theme on it. But, I think that is a small number of people. Did you buy that watch yet?

It is a small number of people out side of the hobby buying. But that small number of the consumers is almost as much as the people here on Pinside.

I agree that there are plenty of people that aren't on Pinside that buy pinball machines. Usually just people that buy one machine for their basement.

Anyway, I think Hot Wheels is a terrible theme, and will be a flop.

Dude your watch example is 110% HORRIBLE because that is a very very niche market. Hot Wheels has 41 million active collectors. C'mon come up with a better example. If you had the chance to sit down with Stern marketing team they would tell you flat out you're wrong. They would tell you that only a very small percentage of their sales result from the group here on pinside.

Facts are facts... why did Stern go to the consumer electronic show if all that matters is pinside? Does Stern ever post on pinside... nope! I don't see any ads specifically from Stern on this site either. Why did Stern go to IAAPA show if all that matters is pinside. You just don't understand the marketing side of collectables.

Again I ask you point blank why has only 450 people on pinside claimed one of the probably 5000 ghostbusters machines sold?

You also claim that only a handful of rich guys... that is a really ridiculous claim. So only rich people can buy a pool table, or an old Pac Man or a new Stern pro pinball game? Are you serious... only rich people collect things? HUH

Look at the video for the HOT WHEEL GUY he lives in a house that isn't worth 100 million dollars. He might have some money, but he's not sailing around on any yachts, and he wasn't driving a 1 million dollar car either. Wake up man!

Your opinion will be proven wrong. But you know what I appreciate everyone is entitled to their opinion. Kaneda is just one opinion and he speaks only for himself. Whatever he says means nothing to me I think for myself. I don't buy anything because it was or wasn't bashed on a podcast. Kaneda bashed JJP Pirates for like 2000 episodes in a row, and its ranked top 10 best game ever, people are selling them for 10k plus. People like what they like, they collect what they collect and there is always a company lined up to give people what they want for crazy prices.

I respect everyone's opinion even when they're proven wrong. You don't like the theme. Guess what I probably wouldn't buy it either the theme doesn't speak to someone who doesn't collect hot wheels. But I'm not the target audience for this game... there is 41 million people out there who love Hot Wheels!

You just want to sell one of these to about 2000 buyers.

Who said that Pinside is all that matters?

I think that plenty of people on Pinside don't update their collections. And plenty of people aren't on Pinside. So...what's your point?

How many coils does that watch have?

110?

I am calm. I'm letting you know you will be proven wrong and you will. I get it you're not informed about the demo's for selling pinball games. I also told you I'm not a hot wheel fan, and probably wouldn't be a buyer. I agree with you from that standpoint. The problem is you come off as because you don't like no one will... this title will outsell Rick and Morty 3 to 1.

At the end of the day NOTHING matters but FINAL sales! Your opinion my opinion no ones opinion matters but final numbers. The market dictates success or failure. The market for this game is there because pinball is a toy a hot wheel is a toy. Its okay you're wrong you will be proven wrong you just have to wait for the game to come out.

There is nothing else to talk about... wait and see how many games get sold. You'll know pretty quick the reception.

Here is the reality though... American Pinball isn't going anywhere. This company has already proven they can make a pinball game. They have expanded their facilities. This company seems well backed ... they are here for the long haul it appears.

We'll have to wait and see what the game looks like.

Again I'm predicting 1500 to 2000 units SOLD! I stand by it 110% because logic tells me it will! The market will be there.

Really? 110% again?

Unfortunately, we don't get to see final sales numbers. So, we'll never know. I hope AP survives. Thus far, they just haven't been able to put together a good theme with a good game.

Have you spent much time on an Oktoberfest with updated code?

It's a great game. Can't see any pinball fan that actually played one thinking otherwise.

As for the Themes: Integration of Theme is the only thing that matters. There are a Ton of great Theme Turds in the Pinball world.

Yeah, it's pretty fun. Better layout than Houdini. Creative mode design. Love the metal habitrails. Clunky video mode, almost as bad as the video mode on Houdini.

I'm actually excited to buy an American Pinball game. Just haven't seen one yet that seems worth jumping in. And it certainly isn't Hot Wheels.

Having a route and doing bar spends I get an opportunity to speak with a variety of people. A high percentage of the time, when we speak to a casual customer that likes the pinball games we have in bars, breweries, FEC's etc, they are almost always shocked at the price of a pinball machine. I would also say they almost always mention the games they played as kids and ask what those cost now. Then they are blown away. I'm a bad judge of game value but I reference this site if they are interested in owning and that they should research here. I guess I don't have any evidence about casual hobbyists and if they would plunk down a significant sum for a pinball. I know I've refered casuals to my distributors with some luck.

Bottom line if they have a big money job, they don't really care about the cost but that is a small fraction of people I've run into. They all sound like they would love to own a pin but the cost makes it less likely.

Grown ups arguing about hot wheels and pinball...this is what they envisioned when they put the world wide web together.

Wrong thread.

I can guarantee If AP builds a Hot Wheels pin it will have twice as much going on then a Spooky pin . I bought a Jetsons and Dominos 2 disappointing games
Done with Spooky .

Lets keep this AP

I have never watched any of those shows. I care less if Hot Wheels is the next title from AP or not. Whatever pin AP comes out with next I will pick up if it is as fun and as different as their first 2 releases.

Except for football mainly the only thing I watch on TV is Deadliest Catch, and Gold Rush.

Based on theme alone out of that list Hot Wheels would be my top pick with RAM in last place.
The real question should be. How many pins do they need to sell to be profitable? If Spooky can make a profit from only 750 games then why does API need to sell more?

Small family run business in Nowhere, WI vs. bigger operation w/ more employees in IL.

People who feel the need to say "I am calm" are 110% of the time very not calm.

Also you should consider splitting your posts into various volumes, like an encyclopedia. Too long, bud. Word counts, Larry, keep it brief! Pulling your chain

I can imagine you saying this statement about a year ago: “Clearly Houdini was not the theme but Oktoberfest is! Try telling 6 million visitors each year Oktoberfest is a bad theme and see the reaction you get.” People love beer right?

6DB7C818-096E-47F2-94DC-06C3C7417F94 (resized).jpeg

Well, forget the theme for a a second, because a semi lousy theme coupled with a great layout and mechs will still sell pretty good. So at the end of the day your game's success rate is measured by how many sold.

It's a unique layout, but I don't know about that scoop up the middle....hmmm. I guess we'll see how it shoots later.

Let’s pray to GOD there is NEVER a TMNT game created. Please sounds like the worst theme possible for Stern. I will repeat Hot Wheels has a collector base of 41 million people. Over 6 billion hot wheels have been sold. I was just in the Apple Store today and even they’re selling these new app based Hot Wheels. You people just don’t understand the market outside of pinball. Rick and Marty is NOT going to be able to complete with Hot Wheels not in 5 lifetimes. Either way congrats to Spooky. Good luck with your game. Game looks fun! Either way can’t compare Hot Wheels to anything because its not released. You have about 4 months to wait.

Yeah a lot of people attend a PARTY to get drunk what does that have to do with people who collect things... ahhh NOTHING! Super dumb analogy. Really dumb!

Look I will tell you Oktoberfest was a BAD idea. I’m not defending that theme. Cool pinball nicely done, but its not selling. WHY? The theme isn’t that great. That is a game right there that only people in the pinball community bought. That theme has nothing to do with the #1 most collected toy on planet earth. WOW you need to use both sides of your brain!

AP has two main issues - theme choice and artwork. Artwork includes the screen graphics.

Hot Wheels seems like a great redemption title, and kids don’t really care about art as much.

Anyway, when picking a theme, it’s an easy choice - go for the one with lots of action. So far neither theme from them had had any action associations. On the surface Hot Wheels might have that but the kiddie undertones kneecaps it.

I’m not going to suggest alternatives, that’s a much more personal preference. But as a group when picking these things, just ask “does this lend itself to ADULT action”. Rick and Morty passes that test.

Oktoberfest is the best theme to come to pinball in the last 5 years. AP did it right with excellent gameplay and action.

Isn't there already a TMNT game? And if I'm not mistaken, it's godawful.

I don‘t get what you get with the Hotwheels license, other them the name and logo, that you woudnt get without it.

You don‘t get video assets, no music and you cant use any of the sublicensed cars.
So you may get some phantasy cars and their blister artwork.
Dunno if it‘s worth it.

Theme is a matter of taste and it‘s a good thing that AP doesn‘t fish in the same pond as Stern. I like Houdini and Oktoberfest is ok also.

But Art (Screen) definately falls short in comparison and even if AP makes better games than the competition, our first judgement is based on visuals.