Quoted from LTG:They are a thing, used to generate income. I can't be passionate about them.
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Hot Wheels
American Pinball, 2020
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Woodridge, IL
Quoted from o-din:He who dies is just dead.
Unless he is a Dracula
Quoted from o-din:When we play checkers or chess, or even hungry hungry hippos, they are also games, but I never remember anybody calling them toys either.
Last time I checked you had to go to the toy department of the store to buy any of these. But whatever, I really don’t care how anyone chooses to refer to their pinball machines. Now don’t let me keep all the serious adults from playing their coin operated machines.
Trollhättan
Quoted from whitey:Well the Texas show is just around the Corner !!! AP will show the New Hot Wheels pin and all the Haters can Bitch n Moan ! Ha Ha . I think I will order one up
AP builds beautiful games[quoted image]
I think the houdini game look great.
I really hope they succed, really puzzled though going with kiddiecar theme.
I read through this thread and others and see so many complaints about AP pins. However, I have to ask how many of those people have actually played or even seen one? For example, I live in Minneapolis which has a very active pinball scene. Numerous locations with many many pins to play. I think there is one Octoberfest in Minnesota on route - not in Minneapolis. I played Houdini and thought it was great! I just wonder if more people had access to them if opinions would change?
I'm skeptical of the theme but I'll definitely try it! Hot Wheels were the shit 25 years ago when I was four, but I can't say that brand means anything to me now. I'm pretty indifferent about Houdini but I always thought Oktoberfest was a pretty neat game.
Quoted from Krupps4:I read through this thread and others and see so many complaints about AP pins. However, I have to ask how many of those people have actually played or even seen one? For example, I live in Minneapolis which has a very active pinball scene. Numerous locations with many many pins to play. I think there is one Octoberfest in Minnesota on route - not in Minneapolis. I played Houdini and thought it was great! I just wonder if more people had access to them if opinions would change?
Damn straight. The Pacific NW is known for having TONS of pinball games on route and yet there is not a single Oktoberfest available for public play ANYWHERE in the greater Seattle or Portland areas according to the Skill Shot game finder website!
https://www.skill-shot.com/pinball-titles
Unfortunately, some people (looking at you Kaneda) will apparently NEVER fully appreciate what Houdini and Oktoberfest have to offer regardless, as they simply can't get past certain theme or artwork deficiencies that they perceive with them.
Quoted from Krupps4:I read through this thread and others and see so many complaints about AP pins. However, I have to ask how many of those people have actually played or even seen one? For example, I live in Minneapolis which has a very active pinball scene. Numerous locations with many many pins to play. I think there is one Octoberfest in Minnesota on route - not in Minneapolis. I played Houdini and thought it was great! I just wonder if more people had access to them if opinions would change?
This is, unfortunately the main area where I think AP messed up. They did a great job advertising the game at PinFest and other shows - the creators Of Houdini (Joe and Josh) went to the shows and talked with lots of people, they were super Friendly and sold the game well -
But then the shows were over, and AP seemed to be marketing towards the home user. The games went to only a very few operators, the initial code was very operator-unfriendly,
NO ONE knew how to set the games up correctly, and for me - in 2 different locations in Washington DC, the game was down every time I went. I believe the Ops were in touch with AP, but IMO they should have figured out a way to keep those games running 24/7. Send a tech, maybe?
AP waited for the orders to come in from home buyers, but due to the recent Heighway and TBL debacles they were slow to Get on board with an unproved manufacturer. And since few games were on location to play... Houdini just faded out of memory.
I was super impressed by the game and theme and bought one. Spent a little time dialing it in (like any game), and it still stands up in my gameroom. Still haven’t even come close to mastering it, and I play it frequently.
That gap between the debut and release (and nothing On location!) allowed the trolls to come in and crap all over the game. And almost none of them had played it. How do I know? Figure out how many Houdini’s are on location. It ain’t many. And every person who plays it at my house says “wow, I was expecting that to be bad! That game is awesome!”
Marketing matters :/
Quoted from Dr-pin:I think the houdini game look great.
I really hope they succed, really puzzled though going with kiddiecar theme.
Serious question, would you feel the same if JJP or Stern announced a Sponge Bob or even a Bozo's Circus pin?
Quoted from vdojaq:Serious question, would you feel the same if JJP or Stern announced a Sponge Bob or even a Bozo's Circus pin?
Only if "It" was on the backglass.
Quoted from Krupps4:I read through this thread and others and see so many complaints about AP pins. However, I have to ask how many of those people have actually played or even seen one? For example, I live in Minneapolis which has a very active pinball scene. Numerous locations with many many pins to play. I think there is one Octoberfest in Minnesota on route - not in Minneapolis. I played Houdini and thought it was great! I just wonder if more people had access to them if opinions would change?
I believe this to be somewhat true. I believe some are bagging on Hot Wheels just because it is A.P.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Marketing matters :/
Of course marketing matters, but you first and foremost need a THEME that matters, and appeals to your target demographic. That has been the real issue.
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:I can see that with OKT. It may not do well on location. But in home it is awesome because of all the variety to try.
For business probably every cookie cutter game that is easy to figure out probably is best. But for home, a game like OKT is way better for all the variety.
I only play at home, and the more variety a pin has the longer it lasts. And for me OKT has the best variety period.
And hell no, on location I would not want to keep putting money in to try all the different stuff.
When i had it on location it was a top earner and it was up against titles like Monsterbash, Batman 66, Star Trek Premium, ACNC. a few Pinsiders and moronic podacasters like to bash it without even taking the time to play it.
Bermuda Triangle
Quoted from Krupps4:I read through this thread and others and see so many complaints about AP pins. However, I have to ask how many of those people have actually played or even seen one? For example, I live in Minneapolis which has a very active pinball scene. Numerous locations with many many pins to play. I think there is one Octoberfest in Minnesota on route - not in Minneapolis. I played Houdini and thought it was great! I just wonder if more people had access to them if opinions would change?
That's kind of the problem. Without solid themes, you are relying on customers to play the machines first before getting excited about it and maybe buying one. Operators have to take a risk that people will play the game and enjoy it enough to come back. Without a lot of buzz and excitement that's a tough hill to climb.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Marketing matters :/
um yeah (resized).png
Warrington
Quoted from vdojaq:I believe this to be somewhat true. I believe some are bagging on Hot Wheels just because it is A.P.
Couldn’t disagree more, I don’t see people bagging on AP at all, I see a lot of people who are hoping for a killer licence from AP that gives them a huge hit and a big seller.
If Stern was making Hot Wheels I’d say the same thing as I have in here, shite theme, but AP are not the leader of the industry either so they need a huge seller surely? It appears Houdini and Octoberfest didn’t sell too well so 3 titles in they need a monster hit and a universally recognised licence would give them a huge jump start with sales.
I think AP make some of the best games period but Houdini and Octoberfest just don’t cut it when it comes to mass appeal. I want AP to succeed pure and simple!
Listen up people, there is a target Hot Wheels collector market that is ravenous for the original "Sweet 16" Hot Wheels cars. You build a machine full of imagery of those specific cars and you make it about "collect them all!" Coupled with video of the RedLine MAG wheel case that opens up an you fill each slot with your cars, you would have one Massive Hot Wheels collector must have pinball machine. Let the player select the time period (decade possibly? ) when they start collecting, brings in all fans of Hot Wheels over all time... sound interesting if they go that route.
When I was 6 years old, I got my first one and my brother and I spent every dime we had getting all of them over the next 2 years. We filled 5 of those mag wheel cases over the next few years after that, plus it seemed like we had about a 1/4 mile of that orange track. We could stretch it from the tree house, all the way down the block for 4 more 1/2 acre lots. Now you tell me how many of us are old and rich enough we just dropped 8.5k for a Monster Bash r LE, and so my demographic won't support 1000 machine sales? Think again.
Quoted from Bublehead:Listen up people, there is a target Hot Wheels collector market that is ravenous for the original "Sweet 16" Hot Wheels cars. You build a machine full of imagery of those specific cars and you make it about "collect them all!" Coupled with video of the RedLine MAG wheel case that opens up an you fill each slot with your cars, you would have one Massive Hot Wheels collector must have pinball machine. Let the player select the time period (decade possibly? ) when they start collecting, brings in all fans of Hot Wheels over all time... sound interesting if they go that route.
When I was 6 years old, I got my first one and my brother and I spent every dime we had getting all of them over the next 2 years. We filled 5 of those mag wheel cases over the next few years after that, plus it seemed like we had about a 1/4 mile of that orange track. We could stretch it from the tree house, all the way down the block for 4 more 1/2 acre lots. Now you tell me how many of us are old and rich enough we just dropped 8.5k for a Monster Bash r LE, and so my demographic won't support 1000 machine sales? Think again.
Let’s bookmark this post and come back in 12 months. I think you are in an isolation bubble don’t have a good sense of the amount of people willing to shell out big money for this theme. It just doesn’t have mass adult appeal.
Quoted from kermit24:Let’s bookmark this post and come back in 12 months. I think you are in an isolation bubble don’t have a good sense of the amount of people willing to shell out big money for this theme. It just doesn’t have mass adult appeal.
A lot of themes don't have mass appeal. Willy Wonka, Munsters, Deadpool, Iron Maiden for example. Fortunately for DP and IMDN the gameplay is fantastic. If the gameplay is good, I'll buy one.
Quoted from Bublehead:Listen up people, there is a target Hot Wheels collector market that is ravenous for the original "Sweet 16" Hot Wheels cars. You build a machine full of imagery of those specific cars and you make it about "collect them all!" Coupled with video of the RedLine MAG wheel case that opens up an you fill each slot with your cars, you would have one Massive Hot Wheels collector must have pinball machine. Let the player select the time period (decade possibly? ) when they start collecting, brings in all fans of Hot Wheels over all time... sound interesting if they go that route.
When I was 6 years old, I got my first one and my brother and I spent every dime we had getting all of them over the next 2 years. We filled 5 of those mag wheel cases over the next few years after that, plus it seemed like we had about a 1/4 mile of that orange track. We could stretch it from the tree house, all the way down the block for 4 more 1/2 acre lots. Now you tell me how many of us are old and rich enough we just dropped 8.5k for a Monster Bash r LE, and so my demographic won't support 1000 machine sales? Think again.
Fair enough but to my understanding no game has ever survived focused exclusively on a niche collectors market. This is not an $8 bobble head for your desk. Many people collect watches and have money but they wouldn’t by a Rolex Pinball machine. It will all boil down to how AP executes this theme and gameplay. A fast car theme could sell as long as they have some fun shots, animations, layout design. Gluing collectibles to the Playfield will not get it done.
Toronto, ON
All you need to do is look at what Stern did to turn their sales around - they upped their art game, picked hot themes, and had big software improvements. It's right there for anyone to look at, a proven strategy that works.
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:Damn straight. The Pacific NW is known for having TONS of pinball games on route and yet there is not a single Oktoberfest available for public play ANYWHERE in the greater Seattle or Portland areas according to the Skill Shot game finder website!
https://www.skill-shot.com/pinball-titles
Unfortunately, some people (looking at you Kaneda) will apparently NEVER fully appreciate what Houdini and Oktoberfest have to offer regardless, as they simply can't get past certain theme or artwork deficiencies that they perceive with them.
There’s at least 2 locations in the Portland area that have Oktoberfest. Use Pinball Map for better results.
Quoted from PokerJake:A lot of themes don't have mass appeal. Willy Wonka, Munsters, Deadpool, Iron Maiden for example. Fortunately for DP and IMDN the gameplay is fantastic. If the gameplay is good, I'll buy one.
I agree with all but Deadpool. IMO Deadpool is one of the more recent themes with a fairly wide appeal.
Quoted from vdojaq:Serious question, would you feel the same if JJP or Stern announced a Sponge Bob or even a Bozo's Circus pin?
Terrible themes as they do nothing for grown-up, sponge are for 4 years old and a ten year old will have zero interest.
As a family man, my forte is ofc pixar movie, dinosaur works.
JJP themes esp woz., pirates and wonka are perfect family themes and as mentioned toy story, monsters Inc goonies, Coco would make all ages happy.
A family father is not going to Buy a frekkin baywatch or Maiden theme, atleast not if you want the family on board, and consider ING price, i really Couldn't shell 9k on a luxury item just appriciated by me....
Ed: for me jjp is EXACTLY on the right tack, they just need funnier layouts in some cases, better assetmanagement and ruleset approchable by all.
(get me right, its great that they are complex, but should be a bit easier to get started with)
Ed:2 houdini is a good themb, but company need help with shoot layout, they need an elwin or lawlor.
I think sherlock holmes is a much better stating point then hot Wheels.
Quoted from Krupps4:I live in Minneapolis which has a very active pinball scene. Numerous locations with many many pins to play. I think there is one Octoberfest in Minnesota on route - not in Minneapolis.
At a location in New Ulm, an hour and a half south of the Twin Cities. And only open limited hours, Thursday and Sunday I believe.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:This is, unfortunately the main area where I think AP messed up. They did a great job advertising the game at PinFest and other shows - the creators Of Houdini (Joe and Josh) went to the shows and talked with lots of people, they were super Friendly and sold the game well -
But then the shows were over, and AP seemed to be marketing towards the home user. The games went to only a very few operators,
I was in contact with DanDanDAN about this when he was still at AP. He tried and tried to no avail. He agreed with me. How can you sell games if people don't see them. Not everybody goes to shows.
LTG : )
Quoted from Dr-pin:Terrible themes as they do nothing for grown-up, sponge are for 4 years old and a ten year old will have zero interest.
As a family man, my forte is ofc pixar movie, dinosaur works.
JJP themes esp woz., pirates and wonka are perfect family themes and as mentioned toy story, monsters Inc goonies, Coco would make all ages happy.
A family father is not going to Buy a frekkin baywatch or Maiden theme, atleast not if you want the family on board, and consider ING price, i really Couldn't shell 9k on a luxury item just appriciated by me....
Why wouldn't someone buy a machine if it's good, because the theme is scary? I have two kids 4 and 6, owned both a TWD and IMDN in the past. My 6 year old (5 at the time) loved TWD and IMDN, and played them both. She still brings up TWD and says we should get another one. We have a Rick and Morty coming later this year and you can bet the swear filter will be turned off. My wife doesn't care for pinball really so she doesn't care either way. Toy Story is our grail theme though and hopefully JJP comes through.
Quoted from PokerJake:Why wouldn't someone buy a machine if it's good, because the theme is scary? I have two kids 4 and 6, owned both a TWD and IMDN in the past. My 6 year old (5 at the time) loved TWD and IMDN, and played them both. She still brings up TWD and says we should get another one. We have a Rick and Morty coming later this year and you can bet the swear filter will be turned off. My wife doesn't care for pinball really so she doesn't care either way. Toy Story is our grail theme though and hopefully JJP comes through.
Yea, pins might be great beside theme. My Girls are 7 and 10, what Do you think they would like to play first? A toy story or walking dead pin?
You cant really think my wife would consider it great family fun, if i came home with a saw pin?
(saw would probebly work Well as a pin for grown up men. Solve traps etc etc)
Quoted from Dr-pin:Yea, pins might be great beside theme. My Girls are 7 and 10, what Do you think they would like to play first? A toy story or walking dead pin?
You cant really think my wife would consider it great family fun, if i came home with a saw pin?
(saw would probebly work Well as a pin for grown up men. Solve traps etc etc)
I've never seen a Saw movie, but if it played well, I'd consider it. Never heard an IMDN song before I bought the machine. My daughter likes to play whats fun, fortunately she knows the difference between real life and fake tv shows/movies and doesn't get scared. Even the best themes can have boring gameplay, looking at GB and IJ(both Williams' and Sterns).
I think people put way to much emphasis on theme.
Look at the top 3 pins...MM, AFM, MB. No one would have considered them as "awesome licenses". But they are awesome games...and that's why they are popular.
If Hot Wheels is a great game (and AP can get people's attention), it will sell...if it isn't...it won't.
Hot Wheels is at least as good a theme as Houdini or Ocktoberfest, probably better.
Quoted from vdojaq:Serious question, would you feel the same if JJP or Stern announced a Sponge Bob or even a Bozo's Circus pin?
SpongeBob would SLAY on location. Just outright MURDER. The kids who grew up on that are now in college and are the ones plunking down coin at barcades.
Quoted from mbeardsley:I think people put way to much emphasis on theme...
If Hot Wheels is a great game (and AP can get people's attention), it will sell...if it isn't...it won't.
Hot Wheels is at least as good a theme as Houdini or Ocktoberfest, probably better.
Do you consider Oktoberfest to be a ‘great game’? If so, then why did it sell so poorly?
Quoted from benheck:SpongeBob would SLAY on location. Just outright MURDER. The kids who grew up on that are now in college and are the ones plunking down coin at barcades.
Agreed. That would be a home run title.
Torrens Park
Quoted from RonSS:I'm thinking if this theme were going to make it big, there would be more positive hype on this forum.
I'm not doubting many "older" guys collect Hot Wheels, what I'm hesitant to say is that those that do, and are not on this forum/thread are going to spend 7k on one.
If it turns out to be Hot Wheels, then I hope I'm wrong on all accounts. We need AP to keep everyone honest.
I want AP to be successful, but like you said, I don't imagine that many hot wheels fans would be willing to spend $7k on a hot wheels items
Quoted from J85M:Couldn’t disagree more, I don’t see people bagging on AP at all, I see a lot of people who are hoping for a killer licence from AP that gives them a huge hit and a big seller.
Yeah this is the truth right here. I get that for being a JJP hater but I just want them to make something I can buy, and theme matters to me. Stern mostly has shit themes as well but they release 2 or 3 games a year and 1 out of 5 or 6 will appeal so they get my business. I had a deposit on Predator and Alien and well..... 
Anyway no one is hating on AP but Hot Wheels? come on man.
Quoted from benheck:SpongeBob would SLAY on location. Just outright MURDER. The kids who grew up on that are now in college and are the ones plunking down coin at barcades.
Also the parents of kids that grew up watching it. Hell, I'm 52 and still like watching a few episodes every now and then.
I'd probably own one if they made it. Too many people underestimate the word nostalgia. Same goes for Hot wheels.
Quoted from pipes:Do you consider Oktoberfest to be a ‘great game’? If so, then why did it sell so poorly?
It's a solid game with some layout, sound, and artwork issues. The execution for AP has been solid to okay, but not excellent.
Also, AP should have directly enticed the thousaaaaaands of breweries in this country to buy their game. They seemingly didn't. They could have directly worked with breweries to make code, help with offers and rewards, etc. This could have been a standard game to see at a few hundred spots across the country, easily.
Yet....I doubt more than 20 breweries, if that, own this game or have even heard of it.
Total misfire in marketing. Not as much the theme, more in it's lack of target market awareness.
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:Damn straight. The Pacific NW is known for having TONS of pinball games on route and yet there is not a single Oktoberfest available for public play ANYWHERE in the greater Seattle or Portland areas according to the Skill Shot game finder website!
https://www.skill-shot.com/pinball-titles
Unfortunately, some people (looking at you Kaneda) will apparently NEVER fully appreciate what Houdini and Oktoberfest have to offer regardless, as they simply can't get past certain theme or artwork deficiencies that they perceive with them.
I love my Oktoberfest Tuna!
I’m looking forward to seeing what AP brings in Hot Wheels.
Build wise, top notch too
The thing about Oktoberfest, they can run it forever, especially during the season!
Quoted from mbeardsley:I think people put way to much emphasis on theme.
Not really. I can think of dozens of recent crappy themes that would prevent me from wanting to buy them or even play them more than once.
Quoted from benheck:SpongeBob would SLAY on location. Just outright MURDER. The kids who grew up on that are now in college and are the ones plunking down coin at barcades.
I can confirm this.
Please someone make SBSP.
Quoted from ATLpb:Please someone make SBSP.
https://spongebob.fandom.com/wiki/SpongeBob_SquarePants_Soccer_Shot_Pinball
Been done. Not the greatest. Didn't set the world on fire.
LTG : )
Quoted from kermit24:Of course marketing matters, but you first and foremost need a THEME that matters, and appeals to your target demographic. That has been the real issue.
There is no "issue"...
They just really don't care about how many are sold or if they ever make a profit hahaha!
Quoted from LTG:https://spongebob.fandom.com/wiki/SpongeBob_SquarePants_Soccer_Shot_Pinball
Been done. Not the greatest. Didn't set the world on fire.
LTG : )
Yuuuuuuup!
I saw one on location before, it plays sooooo badly but its cute!
Would think HW would be a good locations game theme. Fits right in with all the other things at arcades. Would think with orange ramps and loops, many would put money in to play it. It might be one of the best operator friendly games put out in a while. We’ll soon see!
Quoted from LTG:https://spongebob.fandom.com/wiki/SpongeBob_SquarePants_Soccer_Shot_Pinball
Been done. Not the greatest. Didn't set the world on fire.
LTG : )
C'mon LTG, this isn't even close to what we're talking about. Are you just fanning the fire? 
The themes that kill are the ones that pinheads want. It's been proven over and over that just because there's a large market for whatever it is (Wrestlemania, KISS, Mustang), if they aren't also pinheads there aren't sales.
So if Hot Wheels isn't resonating here, that doesn't bode well.
Quoted from RonSS:C'mon LTG, this isn't even close to what we're talking about. Are you just fanning the fire?
No, it was at Pinball Expo some years ago and didn't attract any attention.
Yes it's crap. But the spongebob on it didn't attract. So no guarantee a good spongebob pin would be any different.
LTG : )
Quoted from LTG:At a location in New Ulm, an hour and a half south of the Twin Cities. And only open limited hours, Thursday and Sunday I believe.
I was in contact with dandandan about this when he was still at AP. He tried and tried to no avail. He agreed with me. How can you sell games if people don't see them. Not everybody goes to shows.
LTG : )
Bingo. I tried REALLY hard to play those games on location - and eventually bought one based on my experience at Allentown, but that’s a very small number of players who would do that
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