(Topic ID: 310858)

Hot Tip (EM) Lock relay question

By Edenecho

3 months ago



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  • 6 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by baldtwit
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#1 3 months ago

Greetings from Norway on this saturday evening!
I had two issues on my Williams Hot Tip (EM), one was that the ball #number lights in backbox were not working, all of them off, and that the shoot again light didnt work, probably a weak bulb holder issue as usual.

#1: I looked closer in the backbox and it seemed to be a (barely) millimeter gap between the wire which connects the 5 bulb bases to the jones plug base, so I jumper wired it.

#2: I bought some of the single LED boards for EM machines ( https://www.pinballlife.com/classic-bally-stern-insert-led-pcb.html ) and thought id just replace this bulb. I removed the playfield by unplugging the jones plugs to solder easier.

When i put the playfield back into the cabinet after these two fixed, and powered it in, something was not as it should. Barely any light, (though ball 1 number light was dimly lit), seemed like a power issue. When I started a game, the score motor seemed to run continuosly and nothing seemed to be able to start. Upon inspecting the area where the jones plugs were, I saw that there was a small wire lying there which looked like a jumper wire, but seemed unused. I then inspected the closest relay which is the Lock-Relay and found out that the plastic part where the lugs are attached was broken. The wires seemed connected, but it will definitely have to be replaced. I nudged it a little but, and powered machine on again and it was normal. when pressing start though, the light dimmed and motor started spinning.

Question: Could this be the culprit, that the machines/lock relay is struggling to pull in fully because its broken? It does not seem logical that my other fixed should cause this behaviour.

Thanks!
Morten

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#2 3 months ago

the jones plug base isn't part of a circuit ... you can remove the wire you added and move the frayed ends away from the base.

since the right side is sitting on a staple that is on a bare wire, it may be possible there's a circuit path thru the rivet clamping the mounting base flanges, but if there is, it's not intentional.

the broken coil spool won't bother anything as long as the coil wires aren't shorting to the metal frame. You can replace the coil, epoxy the plastic back together, or tape it up. I'd get the one wire out from between the spool end and frame.

#3 3 months ago
Quoted from baldtwit:

the jones plug base isn't part of a circuit ... you can remove the wire you added and move the frayed ends away from the base.
since the right side is sitting on a staple that is on a bare wire, it may be possible there's a circuit path thru the rivet clamping the mounting base flanges, but if there is, it's not intentional.
the broken coil spool won't bother anything as long as the coil wires aren't shorting to the metal frame. You can replace the coil, epoxy the plastic back together, or tape it up. I'd get the one wire out from between the spool end and frame.

Hmm okay, it seems strange that the wire would not be connected to anything? On the other "side", it is ending in nothing, its just staples. Doesnt it have to be a circuit connected to the wire?

This doesnt explain why the game worked before I did these changes, if the broken coil is still good :/

#4 3 months ago

The frayed wire in the close-up (photo #2) is the general illumination circuit braid and is fine. There was no connection originally, no jumper is needed, you can remove the wire you put in. If you ever suspect a jones connector issue, try temporarily jumpering a pin with alligator clip leads and see if trouble resolves. If so, burnish the points of contact with small wire brush.

You say the light is dim? ALL lamps? or only 1UP lamp? is the lighting dim on all 4 "player up" lamps? IF SO, this is ball count unit alignment, the big rotary unit in the backbox with many spring-loaded contact pins. A small misalignment of discs results in bad connections like that. I had issues with mine recently, too.

The LOCK relays on all these pins always roasts to a crisp over the years and the lugs can fall off, but the connection is still good, most importantly are the contact blades it connects as this is general lighting power and the points may need cleaning if indeed all your lamps are dim. You can replace the coil for appearance sake, but it is not necessary if everything is working.

Great pin

#5 3 months ago

Thanks for the detailed replies, i will reverse thE jumper wire in the back and see what happens and document better what is happening

#6 3 months ago

the braid is stapled on both sides of lamp sockets. The circuit is connected to the left in your pic ... it daisy chains to multiple sockets and eventually a harness wire is attached to the braid someplace.

hot tip doesn't control the GI with the lock relay. The only switch on the lock relay that is used is there to trip the game over relay at power on if it's not already tripped.

you didn't misalign the plug with the socket, right? It's not that difficult to have the plug pins between the socket female receivers instead of in them ...

you only pulled the playfield plugs?

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