(Topic ID: 223160)

Hot Shot: Startup issue and bonus not counting properly


By kermit24

2 years ago



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  • 44 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Runbikeskilee
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#1 2 years ago

Can anyone who has a Hot Shot (1973 Gottlieb) take a good photo of the XB and ZB relays? They are in the front on the game / lower cabinet.

Thanks!!

#2 2 years ago

Anyone out there that can snap a photo of the wiring for these relays?

#4 2 years ago

Do any of these help? What specifically are you trying to see so I can get better pictures in the mornin.
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#5 2 years ago

Thanks so much! This is almost what I need. Can you take a top down view of those relays? I am trying to see is the yellow wire here is attached to more than one tab.

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#6 1 year ago

These of any help? Best I can tell the yellow wire's tab isn't jumped to anything else.

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#7 1 year ago

Yes kingofkoopas very helpful thanks! I fixed the yellow wire but it still isn’t going through the sequence properly to start up. I’ll keep adjusting, etc. Appreciate the help!!!

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from kermit24:

I’ll keep adjusting, etc

Sorry but that would be a mistake. This forum is full of posts from people who tried shotgun cleaning & adjustments, and caused more problems than they were originally trying to solve.
What to do instead: Slowly and carefully diagnose one problem at a time and then fix only that.

Quoted from kermit24:

it still isn’t going through the sequence properly to start up.

Here's the startup sequence from the Hot Shot manual. How far is it getting?

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#9 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Sorry but that would be a mistake. This forum is full of posts from people who tried shotgun cleaning & adjustments, and caused more problems than they were originally trying to solve.
What to do instead: Slowly and carefully diagnose one problem at a time and then fix only that.

No matter how many times you repeat this, it isn't true. This forum is not full of posts from people who have done that, and you quite often simply cannot fix one problem because sometimes problems are interrelated.

-1
#10 1 year ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

you quite often simply cannot fix one problem because sometimes problems are interrelated

No, you, emsinkc "... quite often cannot fix one problem ...", not me. Stop pretending you know what I can and can't do.

#11 1 year ago

Thanks for the help and posting the startup sequence. I am out of town but will be back in a couple days and report back.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

No, you, emsinkc "... quite often cannot fix one problem ...", not me. Stop pretending you know what I can and can't do.

I know you can make the same post over and over...

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

I know you can make the same post over and over...

Stop hijacking other peoples' repair threads, emsinkc to indulge your sibling rivalry.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Stop hijacking other peoples' repair threads, emsinkc to indulge your sibling rivalry.

Start offering suggestions other than high hatting people about how they go about repairing games. Nobody died and left you king of the EM repair game. There's a lot of roads that lead to the same place.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

There's a lot of roads that lead to the same place.

Agreed. And as long as we're telling each other what to do, offer your road and respect mine.

3 weeks later
#16 1 year ago

So I gave in and asked a tech to come out. He is struggling and wants to talk to someone with a Hot Shot. Would anyone be willing to chat with him?

#17 1 year ago

Never mind. He threw in the towel on it. Something is seriously wrong with it and seemingly there are hacks. I may give it a go myself again.

#18 1 year ago

Let me know if I can help.

#19 1 year ago

Use that start up sequence and try to describe where you are having the issues. I have one that, by the grace of God, works.

2 weeks later
#20 1 year ago
Quoted from bonzo71:

Use that start up sequence and try to describe where you are having the issues. I have one that, by the grace of God, works.

Ok going to give this a go. It will go through the startup sequence until the U relay is supposed to fire the coils that reset the reset bank. The bank never resets.

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from kermit24:

It will go through the startup sequence until the U relay is supposed to fire the coils that reset the reset bank. The bank never resets

If the Control Bank Reset (U) relay activates and the Control Bank doesn't reset, inspect and diagnose this circuit with alligator clip jumper wires.

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#22 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

If the Control Bank Reset (U) relay activates and the Control Bank doesn't reset, inspect and diagnose this circuit with alligator clip jumper wires.
[quoted image]

The control bank reset coil won’t fire no matter where I try to jump it in that circuit. It’s like there is no 25V there.

The reset bank coil will fire if I put a 9V battery on it, so the coil itself is ok. Checked the 25v fuse and the fuse near the slam tilt in the cabinet. All fuses are good.

What is intresting is that the schematic has a “slate / red” wire going to the reset coil. It isn’t that color on my game.

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#23 1 year ago
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#24 1 year ago
Quoted from kermit24:

The control bank reset coil won’t fire no matter where I try to jump it in that circuit.

What happens when you tap a jumper from the Black&Red wire on the 10 amp SloBlo fuse to the faded Slate&Red wire on the reset coil?

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

What happens when you tap a jumper from the Black&Red wire on the 10 amp SloBlo fuse to the faded Slate&Red wire on the reset coil?

It fires.

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

What happens when you tap a jumper from the Black&Red wire on the 10 amp SloBlo fuse to the faded Slate&Red wire on the reset coil?

Then I don't know what you meant when you said this. Can you clarify?

Quoted from kermit24:

The control bank reset coil won’t fire no matter where I try to jump it in that circuit.

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Then I don't know what meant when you said this. Can you clarify?

Disregard that I was able to get it to fire by jumping the black / red wire. I am just having trouble isolating why the U relay won't fire the coil.

#28 1 year ago

Another thing I am noticing now is that the Tilt Hold relay won't fire when the start relay / button is pressed. I am having to manually do it. All the slam tilts are adjusted properly.

#29 1 year ago

Does the U relay activate?

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Does the U relay activate?

Yes it does. It has been activating, but the reset bank coil does not fire.

#31 1 year ago

Here are a couple articles about how to use Alligator clip jumper wires. Do they help you understand what to test next?

http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Here are a couple articles about how to use Alligator clip jumper wires. Do they help you understand what to test next?
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

Yes. I believe it is the score motor switch not passing the voltage, but I didn't have a lot of time to dig in. I am in Orlando for a few days and will report back next week. Thanks for the help.

3 weeks later
#33 1 year ago

OK - Good news (mostly) The tech decided to take another look at this game and got it starting up. Long story, but there were multiple things wrong with the game that prevented it from starting. Miswired tilt relay (prevue owner I assume), broken wire in the cloth insulation, etc.

Now that it starts up, I have played a few games and noticed that the bonus is only counting about half of the bonus it should. It doesn't seem 100% consistent, but there are certain drops that never register a bonus, and others that will register the bonus if they are the only targets down, but if they are lots of targets down it seems only about half of them register. I have checked the bonus score relay and the add bonus relay, and also have cleaned the contacts on the bonus unit. All of the drop target down switches have been cleaned throughly.

Where should I start on this?

#35 1 year ago

Halloween horror: the dreaded Hot Shot bonus circuits.

Having spent many hours (with the help of another Pinsider) in trying to figure out malfunctions with a Hot Shot bonus system, I might suggest starting with the drop targets that consistently NEVER register a bonus. I would want to figure out what is wrong with them first.

I suggest starting basic by removing the PF glass, starting a game, and then manually dropping target #1 and drain the ball to see if it registers a bonus. If it does not, try it again a couple more times to make sure it's not some other intermittent fault. Repeat with targets @2-14. Write down in a notebook exactly which targets NEVER register a bonus.

When you drop a specific NEVER-register target, does the feature lamp (for the corresponding pool ball) in the center rack on the PF illuminate? If it does illuminate, then the drop-target down switch (IIRC, those are on the inside of each bank, right?) is functioning normally. If the feature lamp does not illuminate, then either the target-down switch is not making good contact, or the circuit has a burned-out feature bulb or a broken wire lead.

If the feature PF lamp for the NEVER target IS illuminating, then the fault almost certainly is with the contacts on the bonus unit or the wire leads to the contact.

Lee

#36 1 year ago

I don't know if anyone on this posting has read my postings on trying to resurrect my Hot Spot, but I was having similar issues. Somehow (it was not because I know what I'm doing!) but I got the motor to quit spinning and now have my machine at least "partially" playing.

I just found where/how to set it to free play, so after work, I'll try that.

But things not working:

After the 1st ball drains, it immediately kicks the next ball out (like it should) but then simultaneously goes into "Game Over" mode??? More than likely a dirty relay?

I'm also not getting any sounds, but the sound unit looks to be in good shape, so thinking it's just not getting signals?

As with the other post, any and all help is "Greatly Appreciated"

#37 1 year ago

Nitrox, I would suggest starting another thread with your issue, or bumping your other posts on it. You'd probably get more help and not confuse the other issue from the OP

#38 1 year ago

Will do, thanks!

#39 1 year ago
Quoted from Runbikeskilee:

Halloween horror: the dreaded Hot Shot bonus circuits.
Having spent many hours (with the help of another Pinsider) in trying to figure out malfunctions with a Hot Shot bonus system, I might suggest starting with the drop targets that consistently NEVER register a bonus. I would want to figure out what is wrong with them first.
I suggest starting basic by removing the PF glass, starting a game, and then manually dropping target #1 and drain the ball to see if it registers a bonus. If it does not, try it again a couple more times to make sure it's not some other intermittent fault. Repeat with targets @2-14. Write down in a notebook exactly which targets NEVER register a bonus.
When you drop a specific NEVER-register target, does the feature lamp (for the corresponding pool ball) in the center rack on the PF illuminate? If it does illuminate, then the drop-target down switch (IIRC, those are on the inside of each bank, right?) is functioning normally. If the feature lamp does not illuminate, then either the target-down switch is not making good contact, or the circuit has a burned-out feature bulb or a broken wire lead.
If the feature PF lamp for the NEVER target IS illuminating, then the fault almost certainly is with the contacts on the bonus unit or the wire leads to the contact.
Lee

Lee,

All of the feature lamps work properly. I have cleaned and adjusted the bonus unit contacts. I think my issue is that the bonus unit doesn’t go slow enough to count the lit ones and they get skipped.

#40 1 year ago

Fixed! Thanks for this link. The post really helped me understand. The relay that slows the bonus down needed to be adjusted. Now I won’t breathe on it. Ha.

#41 1 year ago

Ok. One (hopefully) last question. My special and 500 or 1,000 point switches don’t alternate during the game.

It seems this is controlled by the “A” relay under the playfield. This relay is always locked on during a game.

How can I make it alternate?

#42 1 year ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Ok. One (hopefully) last question. My special and 500 or 1,000 point switches don’t alternate during the game.
It seems this is controlled by the “A” relay under the playfield. This relay is always locked on during a game.
How can I make it alternate?

There is a switch on the 00-90 AS relay (mini stepper) in the head of the game that is opened and closed as it advances. This switch activates and deactivates the alternating relay. I'll bet this stepper is stuck in one position. The mini stepper should advance each time 10 points is scored.

#43 1 year ago
Quoted from bonzo71:

There is a switch on the 00-90 AS relay (mini stepper) in the head of the game that is opened and closed as it advances. This switch activates and deactivates the alternating relay. I'll bet this stepper is stuck in one position. The mini stepper should advance each time 10 points is scored.

That was it! Thanks so much.

#44 1 year ago

Kermit, glad that you got it fixed. I found Hot Shot (HS) to be one of the most finicky EMs that I ever worked on.

What threw me off was the report that certain drop targets never scored. I had the issue with my HS short-changing the bonus scoring, but it appeared to be quite random in that it was always different targets that did not score from ball to ball and game to game. In fact, if I tested by manually dropping one, two, or three targets at a time, it would register the bonus perfectly 100% of the time. The malfunction would only occur when I had a larger number of targets down and the ones that got skipped were different every time. In my case, the problems resolved to be within the switches in the relays that control the speed of the bonus scan.

Enjoy the game. Mine can be a very frustrating machine to play. It would appear to be an easy game with wide-open shots at 2 huge banks of drop targets. However, No matter what plunger shots I try, my HS always seems to have 1 or 2 balls (out of 5) trickle down from the top rollovers and go out a drain almost immediately. Like clockwork. If one or both of those quick drains happens on ball 4 or 5 (with the 2X and 3X) bonus, it is almost impossible to beat the replay score levels, no matter what I did on balls 1-3.

Have fun with it!
Lee

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