I have a crap poor project I need to start on.
(Topic ID: 86132)
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Hook
Data East, 1992-
Star Wars
Data East, 1992
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Data East, 1993
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Here's my Hook project I've got going on right now. Not too terrible, definitely need to hit the playfield with Novus 2 (I usually use Novus 1) to get that engrained dirt out. Ramps are in good shape, but very cloudy. Kind of hesitant to wash them with soap and water because of the rope lights, I'll probably end up re-attaching those afterwards. Putting LEDs in the GI, standard fare. Gonna hit the ramps with a good flame polishing too. Also gonna upgrade the bumpers to Sega mechs with self cleaning switches. Gonna add Cliffy scoop protectors, new bats, and Super Bands as well.
Anyone happen to have decals for the shooter lane ramp, or scans of decals? Plus I also want to upgrade the flippers to use linear springs, can that be done by adding the spring tabs?
Finally got some more time for my Hook project. Turning out pretty nice so far. Marco doesn't have the double yellow posts so I went with orange. Novus 2 powers through that dirt like nothing else I've ever seen! There was a thick line of dirt over the rollover inserts.
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Not sure what you mean by "drops the ball onto the plastic." The mounting point for the habitrail is slightly elevated above the plastic, as the loop sits on the hex head.
1 week later
Quoted from Mocean:Whoever thought putting speech calls in service mode was a good idea!?
Dude if you think THAT'S annoying, try adjusting replay scores and holding the start button in. "Hook hook hook hookhookhookhohohohohohohoooooo..." 
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Open the coin door and press the green toggle switch on the left and make sure it is in the depressed position. Press the black button next to it to enter diagnostics. Use this button to step through the options and toggle the other switch to change direction. Scroll to the switch edges or "switch test" and place a ball in the kicker. Does the switch register on-screen? If not, lift the playfield into service position and trigger the switch with your finger. No talky? Replace the switch. Can you solder?
Quoted from ChadH:I'd love to do it. Just need someone near by to lend me their Hook for six months. Anyone out there interested?
Absolutely needs to happen. Game has a great layout but is seriously limited by the code.
3 weeks later
Hmm, that's not good. Some kind of logic failure that's probably tied to the display RAM. Does anyone know if the RAM is removeable? Did you do a display test?
1 week later
Just watched the movie again last night. The game seems to use a mixture of quotes taken directly from the movie and custom speech. For years I wondered what "Ru-fi-o" was supposed to be.
The skull shot is a major waste, I have to agree. I almost never go for it due to the risk of STDM drains from bricked shots. My initial thoughts would be to swap the skull scoops and the right comer scoop going up Hook's arm, but that may introduce too much risk into the the game's main mode shot. If you miss you can really lose control of the ball (though there is a kickback). Then again if you don't swap positions the scoop is still critical to lite a mode at the right scoop...
The left ramp seems to be hit and miss for a lot of folks. I can shoot it repeatedly without much problem and max out the value at 3 million. This resets after it has been maxed. I have actually had good players complain about the right flipper being ever so slightly out of adjustment which prevented them from spamming the left ramp. So even though it may not be an issue for everyone it definitely does need some rework. Similar to the Star Wars ramp.
Another area is the ship drop targets, the only time they are used is to advance the bonus multiplier IIRC (bonus is worthless so what's the point?) and claim Pirate's Extra Ball or Pirate's Special. Both of these are stupid easy, you have 10 seconds to hit one target out of a bank of 4. It would be a worthy challenge to, say, sink all 4 targets to claim the award instead. There are other easy ways to get an extra ball.
The home run shot to the right of the croc clock ramp can be used inventively too. Currently you make 4 shots for 3 strikes followed by a home run. The ball is fired back out from underneath the plunger ramp via a slingshot kicker. Balls are locked in the lane for multiball.
All balls in the trough. Though often my game will delay the end of ball by several seconds after it has landed in the outhole.
If you have any particular questions about the rules I can help, though I'm not sure we're running the latest code.
Quoted from ChadH:I believe these are GI bulbs. Probably just extra light for that area. Mine have white covers on them. But maybe they were once yellow but have faded.
They are GI lamps with white condoms.
Quoted from Gov:Can you change the end of ball music while you are at it?
That sequence is a bit drawn out. The loop is also interrupted, would it be possible to end the sequence cleanly in multiples of a single loop after the seventh beat?
There's at least one bug with the service menu. One is the directional pushbutton doesn't work. Regardless of whether you have the button depressed, you can only move forward. Please fix this! Oh and the tinkerbell selection sound and adjustment "Hook" voice are really annoying. Try setting a custom backup replay score...
Some observations I made yesterday while I had access to the game. Dang it I forgot to get the CPU version!
Replay value appears too briefly in attract mode (about half a second)
Top rollover bonus multiplier steps up from 2x, 4x, 6x, 8x, to 10x. Once 10x is reached this becomes a fixed award of 500k. Something to think about after end of ball bonus is adjusted for balance. Should 500k be increased?
Bug after game ends... "insert coins" is shown for a split second before game over screen/jingle. Insert coins should only display after the game over sequence and jingle ends.
Hook's mouth sprite flickers during attract mode when he says, "I hate, I hate, I hate Peter Pan." Is there a way to change the animation to fix this?
Green toggle pushbutton does not change direction when in diagnostics menu. Works fine in audits and adjustments.
Possible to add credit dot when a playfield status message is present?
Skill shot inconsistency... miss awards 100k x ball number, hit awards 2m, 3m, 4m depending on your ball number. This is incorrect with the hook shaped plastic at hole two that says, "One mil x ball in play."
Another skill shot bug... If extra ball is lit at hole three on the third plunge and you collect it, it is possible to collect the normal 4m skill shot a second time if you either lock the ball or drain the ball and trigger the ball save. I am not 100% sure on how to reproduce as I never noticed this issue before, but the one time I tried again with ball save it was not reproduced.
Possible to fix or lessen LED ghosting? The only LEDs I have in the game are in the center skull eyes and ghosting is pretty noticeable with those lamps being front and center. I'm an incandescent fan but since these lamps are impossible to replace without removing the entire ramp and skull plastic, I use LEDs.
Possible to use the "Ball one" and "Ball two" callouts when shooting the right baseball lane in other ways? Maybe at the start of each ball or when balls are locked? If an unused "three" callout exists it would make this a feasible idea since "Home run" is said instead of "Ball three."
The "What great games" callout is interrupted when pressing the start button to adjust replay value after opening the coin door.
I would think so. Otherwise you would have to make consecutive shots within the time limit to stack the value up. If you look at manuals for other Data East games, such as Star Wars, see what effect a similar adjustment has.
Dang Chad is so good he can fix bugs without a code update! What other workarounds do we need to fix the others? 
Dang, really? I don't think I've ever seen extra ball lit at the skull. For me they're always awarded either from the drop targets or skill shot.
I concur, you can interrupt the animation and score another jackpot but you have to wait quite a bit of time.
More info for you Chad!
This is minor, but the score screen flashes briefly after a plunged skill shot miss, plunged lock miss, or playfield triggered skill shot/lock miss. The score is shown for a split second between the switch closure and the miss message/fanfare.
This may be my display outgassing, but the skull hurry-up award only displays two skulls on either side of the screen. What is supposed to show here, if anything? This screen also shows 20 million briefly before playing the skull collect animation or after draining with the countdown running.
"One," "two," "three," "four," "ball," "strike," and "home run" callouts are all used. You score a strike when you successfully make the right lane beside the baseball ramp and send the ball into the bumpers. If your shot misses it falls into the kicker lane behind it and you score a ball. Thinking of ways of using those callouts alternatively... maybe during the last four seconds of an important mode countdown?
The "500k x ball in play" left outlane insert does not always light when this feature is lit.
Completing the cannon drop target bank advances the windcoaster ramp value as indicated on the playfield. If you reach the maximum of 3 million this will actually roll back over to 250k if you, for example, miss the ramp or possibly complete the bank by accident when collecting a pirate award. This is the first time in pinball I've seen a feature actually reduce the value of a separate feature by completing it, the game punishes you for this (although you do get points for completing the bank regardless). Also, about the "3m plus" insert, is there supposed to be a way to get more than 3 million points before the windcoaster value resets?
Quoted from ChadH:This is odd as the game is supposed to be showing the 20,000,000 during the 10 second count down. Not sure why yours is not.
Then it's my display, thanks for verifying. Most of that is dim text which often completely disappears on dying DMDs.
Quoted from ChadH:Possibly your lamp needs tweaking?
Looks good in diagnostics. I didn't realize it was a lane change feature.
Quoted from ChadH:I can see the code where they originally had the Left Ramp actually increase up to 12 Million but then they locked it at 3M. Probably for scoring balance and to try to prevent someone from spamming the Left Ramp all day.
Do you think it's possible to re-use those slots with much smaller scores like 2.1m, 2.2m, etc? This will make the insert text more accurate without further breaking the ramp scoring. Maybe to compensate for the additional awards figure out a way to severely limit the overall ramp scoring after one or two cycles?
I took a look at the sounds and found a few unused callouts and possibly some unused jingles around the croc clock hurry-up in the sound event table. I used m1 with the Bridgem1 frontend if you want to listen but I had to rip the callouts manually.
https://soundcloud.com/titan91-1/hook-unused-callouts
Not sure what the second sound is, Tinkerbell humming?
Quoted from ChadH:I think that second sound is the sound test tone.
I'm not sure, I've combed through the ROMs of various games and don't think I have seen this sample anywhere else.
Quoted from ChadH:The first one "come back and fight me now" and also that third one of the children chanting the rooster crow are not used.
I almost thought the war cry was used during the start of multiball but it's a more distinct group of people crowing rather than a muffled crowd.
Quoted from ChadH:Which jingles do you think are unused? (I am not familiar enough with the game to identify what's used and not.)
I've been playing the game just about my whole life and have never heard tracks 3, 48, 52, 54, 56, 58, and 62. Track 50 is the current croc clock countdown jingle but 52, 54, 56, and 58 are single channel events, clearly not full tracks. It sounds like 56 and 58 are designed to fit together for an alternate croc clock countdown.
Here they are individually, followed by a mix of 56 and 58. Definitely sounds like something that was either not completed by Brian or not mixed/implemented.
https://soundcloud.com/titan91-1/hook-unused-channels
Quoted from ChadH:Also, I don't think that the "Strike Three!" voice call is ever used. Another one that is not used is "You can fly!", although that is heard but only with another longer voice call that has "You can fly, you can fight, you can [rooster crow]".
I think you're correct about "strike three." Is "You can fly" its own event though it's part of the sentence?
There's a slight possibility had it been on my game that I may have removed that gate and not put it back. This was over 3 years ago so I'm not sure. I think I found a bigger gate in my parts stash several months back wondering where it went. I certainly would have taken a photo of that gate installed, but there was a bug in the Pinside archive image uploader (I dug the second photo up from my archive pics) which means not all photos would have made it to the shop-out album.
Edit: Looking at more photos I'm absolutely sure that gate wasn't on my game at all.
All manual diagrams indicate the presence of the gate. I didn't see anything that mentioned advancing the umpire, only home runs. Perhaps the game's original design was to reflect new plunges only (ball one through three) but then again this would not explain why "ball four" is in there unless you changed the balls per game to four.
Quoted from LarryMac:Had to share this - I was playing last night next to the manager of the brewery where my Hook is. He hit start and began to speak along with Mr. Tootles - "have to fly, have to fight ...."
And then he said "aftershave Maggie, aftershave Jack".
I always though Tootles was saying "hogie speck" for years when I was younger until I finally saw the movie.
Quoted from Patofnaud:LOL maybe they have a 5 o'clock shadow?
I'd like to think MY quote is funnier! 
I don't plan on posting a lot more detailed stuff in this thread but as reference material for everyone:
End of ball music starts twice when each ball drains
"Ball one" always repeats once if anyone was wondering
Umpire does not play callout and advance ball count when skill shot is collected
Skill shot DMD animation cuts back to score early, light plunge or full plunge back into the shooter lane to replay DMD skill shot sequence and fix this
Replay value disappears too quick in attract
"Hook" in "Hook by Steven Spielberg" flashes too quick in attract
Something flashes quick between Hook logo and number of credits in attract?
"Press start" animation flickers in attract
"Special thanks" flashes too quick in attract
High scores are a bit quick in attract
I only visit the location once a week so I try to note as much as possible. Honestly, this has got to be the downright buggiest pin I've ever seen.
Are you sure C7 didn't leak? That's a really problematic cap since it takes a lot of heat from the 5v regulator. What toasty resistor are you talking about?
Quoted from Goonie:Here it is. Just can't get 2 photos to upload to the same post for some reason.
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The cap looks fine, you probably just had some corrosion from a high humidity environment at some point. The resistor in the first photo looks ok, but I would reflow the solder joints on all the resistors on that board except for the one in the second picture. That one looks like it's definitely getting too hot. Remove that resistor and check to make sure it isn't shorted.
Why in the world would there be code in the game to reset the score to zero? I would normally think a buffer overflow, but if this were an 8 bit integer it would go all the way up to 255 before rolling back around. A 7 bit integer would max out a 127, a 6 bit maxes out at 63.
I was assuming the bonus increments by the million but I guess it doesn't. Probably the same reason the Pac-Man kill screen happens, programmers didn't assume anyone would make it to level 256.
Don't forget if you miss the skill shot the diverter activates and send the ball back to the shooter lane for another chance so I'm guessing that would count towards the timer too. To fix this you could turn off the diverter/retry when the player does a full plunge to send the ball to the right habitrail. If you actually try the skill shot and overshoot there's a good chance the ball will go down the right baseball ramp and enter the playfield before it reaches the habitrail so I thought the diverter idea was novel but I've never thought of a practical use for it. I see people doing full plunges all the time and wondering why the ball comes back. Maybe you have an idea to use that diverter inventively?
Oh it never ends! A few more things I noticed:
The croc clock hurry-up timer sometimes starts late, immediately playing the faster paced music normally heard in the last few seconds of the mode. The last time I started it I had only about 5 seconds(!) to shoot the right ramp when normally you would get 10 or 15 seconds. This also happened after collecting the croc clock jackpot at that ramp following the opening jackpot at the windcoaster ramp.
There is no countdown timer on the DMD for pirate awards, just the sprite of the ship and mode text. This would be really nice to have.
The post high score message, "BANGARANG PAN THE MAN JAY" for example, flashes by too quickly before the game goes back to attract mode. I know the screwed up high score routine has been discussed before.
Quoted from ChadH:Actually, there is a timer on the right side. Maybe this is related to your display outgassing you were mentioning earlier?
Man I've gotta get a new display!
Quoted from bobwiley:Chad, is there a way you could assign callouts individually rather than having them "shared?" To my understanding, certain switches are assigned the same sound file. It would be great if each action recalled its own sound location so more variety was added. By any chance do you know if we can modify the sound files? Maybe replace the chip to add better ones?
I'm not really sure what you're asking. Are you talking about taking existing sound events ("Hook, Hook, Hook!," "Ball one," "Ball two" etc.) and splitting them up into their own separate events so certain words can be called individually? I'm not sure this is possible but if it is it would also require more ROM space to add additional metadata to the sounds database. The requirement of extra storage would most likely force unused callouts and music tracks to be removed to allow space for this extra metadata, and I would rather hear the unused sounds/music that Brian Schmidt originally intended to include.
Regarding a PinSound project, I think it would be pretty easy to do for this game. It seems to have a more limited selection of music and callouts than other more popular DE titles. The movie was not recorded in 5.1 surround so lifting certain words and sound effects is a bit limited but it can be done like other games Endprodukt has worked on. The croc clock burp after Hook is eaten is heard clearly with little background noise and is actually used in the Jurassic Park game too. I don't think it's used in the actual movie though but they are both Spielberg titles...
Quoted from ChadH:there are two videos played when you drain via the outlanes.
I looked at this with the glass off and I think there's a third one. I was watching a gameplay video and noticed something strange about the skull hurry-up. You can tell the display is outgassing like mine because the value in the center and timer on the right are barely visible because they are displayed using dim dots. However when he shoots the ramp and it comes back down, as soon as it hits the ramp gate switch the second time the score and timer text flash to full bright for a single frame followed by the normal gameplay score screen for another frame. This also happens when the mode ends via the timer. This is what I meant by "something" when I pointed out this flash earlier in the thread. Very odd, like the code is falling back on a brighter version of the text.
Normal:
Ball exiting ramp:
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Mode ending:
Edit: Ok this is just silly. It looks like the fast scoring, victory lap, and multiball restart modes show the scores and countdown text at full brightness, unlike the skull and pirate hurry-ups. Can you confirm this?
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The flashing is more noticeable with a weak DMD because you go from seeing a lot of black to seeing bright pixels.
Which makes me wonder, why are the display styles half bright and half dim? If you have an older display changing the dim parts to bright would help make things more visible, but if you had an LED or color display this wouldn't matter. With the PIN2DMD and PinballSP color DMD projects making fast headway into production I would personally prefer to make all of these dim across the board of you can. That way using a color palette with an RGB display down the road will give more colors on-screen.
If you complete more than one mode whose totals are added to the end of ball bonus the jingle is interrupted between totals during the end of ball sequence.
Also it turns out you don't even need to send the ball into the jets to get a strike. Just send the ball into the right lane and close the switch under the right ramp. If you close the switch and do not make it to the bumpers you will immediately get a strike awarded regardless of where the ball goes from there. It would be nice to use the bumper switches for verification but this could delay the award by several seconds... this would be ideal if there was a target in the upper corner of the bumper arena like in Dracula or Terminator 2.
Quoted from ChadH:Anyone going to MGC this weekend? Check out the Hook that will be there.
Running some custom code? 
1 week later
I personally wouldn't rush out and a buy a gate. I'm sure Chad can find an inventive way to use that gap considering so many machines don't have it. There's a reason why.
2 weeks later
Do the sound amps need a regulated +12v power supply? Having the same issue with an X-Pin power supply, Brett says to remove the regulator which turns the +12v regulated supply into an unregulated source. Had sound dropouts whenever the windcoaster rope lights flashed.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:New product for Batman, Checkpoint, Hook, Star Trek 25th Anniversary, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Replaces Data East Display P/N 520-5042-00
128x16 LED DE displays are now available.
http://bostonpinballcompany.com/Data_East_Displays.htm
Xpin's 128x16 LED DE displays due out in the summer 2016
http://xpinpinball.com/product/xp-dmd2048/
Dang, a couple of new options there for 128x16! Fantastic. The Boston Pinball one looks pretty promising, maybe a monolithic LED panel (no blocks/segments)? It looks great and the decision to use through hole component design is significant. The X-Pin one, not sure. It's awful expensive for using 8x8 modules that would likely show grid lines, and uses surface mount technology in contrast.
My thoughts exactly. I'm getting the impression this is how Tim Seckel originally designed it given how much sense this makes and the text on the playfield.
Quoted from ChadH:What do you all think about the Skull shot?
This shot currently serves these purposes:
1) It will spot a Top Lane (to help build your Bonus Multiplier)
2) If the Right Scoop is not lit, it will relight the Right Scoop.
3) It collects the 20 Million Skull shot during that mode.
4) It collects Extra Ball when lit.
5) It is one of several shots you can shoot during Bangarang to build the Bangarang bonus.
Does this seem to be enough? Should it do anything else?
Ever thought of putting the right scoop on a timer? Maybe turn it into something like Bride of Pinbot's left lane, light more valuable modes/awards if you can make the skull/scoop in sequence quick enough within a certain amount of time? That's one way to add a little more focus to the skull. Shoot the skull to light the right scoop. If you dont shoot the scoop or the skull again within 30/45 seconds the scoop is no longer lit. Another comparison would be the ramps on your custom TFTC. The skull can be the left ramp and the right scoop can be the right ramp. IMO this would make sense from a shot difficulty point of view as although the skull can be a bit risky being above the flipper gap, it's easier to shoot than the right scoop. This would make things more interesting than just skull/scoop/skull/scoop and add a risk/reward factor.
I would like to think there are other things that spot the weapons targets to qualify multiball like in Jurassic Park. I do agree it's a bit easy.
Quoted from Crash:I would like to think there are other things that spot the weapons targets to qualify multiball like in Jurassic Park.
I paid attention to the weapon targets and the only thing I see that spots them is plunging at the beginning of a new ball. You can hit or miss the skill shot and it spots one target.
Funny thing about these though, when you start the game you have the bottom insert flashing on all three banks. If you hit the bottom one it turns solid and the center insert flashes. If you hit the center one it turns solid and the top one flashes. If you hit the top one it turns solid and completes the bank. However, if you hit them out of order it gets confusing. For example, start a game and hit the top target of any one bank. The top insert goes solid and the bottom remains flashing as expected. Hit the center next, then the bottom one last. The center then goes from solid to flashing, misleading the player into thinking the center target had been collected, but it hasn't. I agree with the need to hit them in order, but the way the game presents progress of this is misleading. It would be better if any targets hit out of order are not lit at all.
Also, when the ball lands under the shooter ramp sometimes the kicker will fire too soon and miss it. Often the ball will bounce up about half an inch and settle down again. There should be a timer on this kicker to allow the ball to settle. It happens more going backwards out of the jet bumpers.
1 week later
How are you liking the new Boston DMD? Do you see any gridlines or does it look like all one module?
1 week later
Chad once again I think your suggestion is spot on. I wish I had room for some input of my own, but this would be perfect. "Shoot twice lites croc time." Then shoot the ramp a third time to start it. Given the way it's worded on the playfield it seems like this is the original intent. You would expect the mode to be lit, not start. Just have both inserts lit solid until the mode starts.
Quoted from rstrunks:Deleted.
Post it in the marketplace, it's against the rules to share those here.
Quoted from judremy:I thought Chad said it right above? It is due to the ball not getting in the drain quick enough. It might bounce around before hitting the switch that tells the machine the ball drained. No grace period and only one second.
No, this happens independently of the scoop ball save. In fact it happens if you don't shoot for the scoop at all. I haven't been able to determine a pattern, but sometimes it can be as long as 5 or 6 seconds before the game plays the end of ball sequence. I think the ball is returned to the trough first in all cases. Also, the ball does not get ejected when placed in the skull and right scoops during attract mode. I have to press start and let it do the pre-game ball search before this happens. The other two shots (under shooter lane ramp and clock shop kicker) do this as expected.
If possible other adjustments I would suggest are music volume (I think) and match on/off. I believe both of those are also irrelevant to collectors and operators.
1 week later
That looks like part of Paul Faris's original pencil style artwork, not a solid smudge or damage mark.
Quoted from sibi:Now i remember.
Cabinet thet i scan was so badly damage thet i think thet black point was damage.
Spent whole day making that part....lol
1 week later
Interesting point on what I like to call the "pity extra ball." What does everyone think about the score threshold for this? It will have to be updated once the balance changes take effect, or else you will never see it.
I think we're talking about 2 different awards. The extra ball appears during the skill shot on ball 3. The multiball, if I remember correctly, also appears at the start of a ball.
Quoted from dmbjunky:Also does anyone else think the call outs aren't from the movie? They sound rerecorded with different people. Except Tootles. He sounds like the actor from the movie.
I believe all the actors are original, but most of the speech is custom. Which begs the question, had anyone considered doing a PinSound project for Hook?
Quoted from dmbjunky:Hook sounds like Dustin Hoffman as well as Tootles but like generic child actor saying to hit the ramp doesn't sound like anyone from the film. I also don't hear any Robin Williams in the callouts.
Quotes like "Fly up the ramp" and "Try again" sound like Tinkerbell from the movie to me. Peter sounds like Robin Williams as well. Maybe I'm not paying enough attention to the voices? 
3 weeks later
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Quoted from armi0024:Ok guys, I have a good vac forming place and I'm going to take the my Rufio in to copy it. Is there enough interest to run as many as 50-100 of these?
I may be interested, not sure. Mine has a hole in it as well. To be clear this is the small right ramp behind the baseball jackpot plastic? Is there any estimate on what each ramp would cost at a run of 50?
1 week later
1 week later
Quoted from Mizzoo70:Hey guys. I was wondering if someone could do me a solid and post some pics of their bumper area with the Tree plastics. I was finally able to track down the piece that I was missing and am having a hell of a time finding pics of the best way to attach it. Thanks.
Check out my photos:
6 months later
Quoted from ChadH:My unofficial Hook patch has been released!
Bangarang!!! This classic movie themed pinball machine from 1992 now plays better than ever. Newly balanced scoring. Ball Save has been fixed and is now user adjustable. Completely rewritten Left Ramp and Drop Target logic adds a whole new risk/reward challenge. Right Scoop Awards have been overhauled. Multiball jackpots have been increased for better balance. New optional Tournament Mode adjustment has been added. Previously unused voice calls and music have been added. Many, many, bug fixes. Much more!
You can read all the details of the changes and download the patch from my website at:
http://www.pinballcode.com
Let me know what you think.
Merry Christmas!
Excellent, will have to update the beta code in my game. For the record I believe the sound callout is "fly up the ramp" under the audio changes section at the end.
Holy crap, thanks!! Also, pretty creative!
Played it some more today and the last minor issue I knew of (which was Tinkerbell repeating "Shoot it!" every 5 seconds in the shooter lane and wasn't expecting you to fix) is now gone. I'd say it's perfect now.
2 weeks later
I would replace the connector and header on the display driver board for the 5v power supply. But before doing that, I would verify you are getting a stable 5v (or close to 5v) to the connector. You can press your meter leads against the pins in the IDC connector from the back to check this. I would do this with the display unplugged as from experience a poor connection at the board can cause this to read low and make it appear to be an issue between the power supply and the connector.
1 month later
1 month later
Quoted from garretswinning:Well i found the problem with the restart with alot of help from todd at tnt amusements. its the board that runs the rope light on the wincoaster.
Are you using an aftermarket power supply? If so check the solution in this thread.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bizarre-audio-break-up-problem-on-hook
1 week later
Quoted from garretswinning:Has anyone came out with a color did for hook yet and I'm not talking about just a single color. I think someone was working on one but forgot where I had read it
PinballSP is working on this, but it's not done yet.
2 weeks later
Quoted from ChrisRAD:Excited to be part of the club! Picked it up with one broken plastic (already have a replacement ordered) and some lights out. Just general cleaning needed otherwise. Anyone know where to get a repro clear red shooter rod?
Where did you find a single replacement plastic? This game and a lot of other Data East games use partially transparent plastics. I know CPR has been doing Data East sets in the past year but like you I occasionally have only one or two that need replacement.
1 month later
Quoted from chuckwurt:Anyone have tips to reduce the speaker hum? My LW3 has it too, but this one is much louder and is going to a home where they will only have this game.
Thanks!
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/data-east-speaker-noise-ideas-for-a-cure
Quoted from SpinnerAddict:Can anyone tell where I can get the 5.0 Roms?
1 month later
Search the forums for DMDs for sale. People are getting rid of theirs all the time due to upgrading to ColorDMD and other color displays. You can find really good condition ones for much less than new.
Quoted from hawkeyexx:I wished there was a color DMD for Hook
There is, all we need is for someone to colorize the game when the Magic Color Editor software is ready!
Quoted from V_piscopo:Contact @rapplebox and see if they have any color dmd in that size.
As far as I know they don't. I would steer clear of PIN2DMD due to numerous design issues, Rappelbox is shady and does not respond to emails or ship replacement parts when things go wrong with his product.
Quoted from Freeplay40:Do you want one? I basically make them on demand and usually one or two extra. I have one left right now that is formed but not finished.
I'll be getting one soon since you are making them on an as-needed basis. Meanwhile do you know where the get the water slide decals for just this ramp? Or is there a feasible way to transfer the decals from the old ramp and still make them stick and look good?
2 weeks later
There could be another explanation, did you remove the display driver board from the backbox to replace the ROM? If so you could have a poor 5v power connection or ribbon cable connection that was working fine before.
1 week later
Quoted from Slider:Just received my ruffio ramp from freeplay40 and I couldnt be happier. He did an incredible job. Now I just need decals.
I gave hawkeyexx the decal scans, I know he's making one for me (I can pay via PayPal when needed). He may consider printing more copies though.
Quoted from hawkeyexx:I will print a few so people can have them. I told freeplay40 I would sent him some so he could ship the decals with the new ramp.
I just saved a copy of both scans and PM'd you the new links. Public thanks to shicketmaster for taking the time to scan these twice and send two sets of links! If you need dimensions I think I have a junk spare ramp I can measure the decal sizes on.
Would it at this point make more sense to wait and order the ramp and decals together once the prints are made and sent to Freeplay40?
Quoted from jmountjoy111:I’ve got a hook tech question so I thought I’d throw it out here and see if there were any simple responses before opening a thread.
When I hit the wind coaster ramp the sound cuts out. Sometimes it comes back in later in the ball but other times it stays off until the ball drains. Has anyone had this happen before? I’m thinking replace the caps but maybe it’s a rom issue. What do you guys think
It's 100% the power supply. I've seen it happen twice, both with X-Pin power supplies. Is your power supply original?
Quoted from jmountjoy111:Come to think of it I believe it is a rottendog. What was the issue with the power supply. Is it something fixable or just a bad board?
Thank you for the quick reply btw
It’s a design issue where the +12v rail is not able to deliver enough current for the whole game. If the voltage drops to about 9.5v the amps on the sound board will cut out briefly. The extra load of the flashing rope lights pulls down the voltage when it shouldn’t.
I have also heard of a third case where Rottendog has this issue as well. Does anyone know if the Rottendog board uses a regulated 12v supply?
Sounds like the ramp value number being sent to the display is corrupted and causing the DMD controller to crash and reset. If that’s the case maybe it’s only a specific score being displayed that causes it, which possibly explains why some are seeing the problem and others not.
Someone should boot your ROMs in PinMAME and trigger the instant info to see if it’s maybe display hardware related.
Quoted from bobwiley:Also, the Pirate ship reward(s) (extra ball or 10 million), is it coded for a specific drop target or any target in the bank? Having an option to have it set easier for any target or hard for the corresponding target would be nice in the settings, if that option isn't there.already.
AFAIK, any target. While a difficulty adjustment would be nice to bump this up to a specific target (or probably better, to drop all targets) it would mean Chad has to gut an existing adjustment. I’m sure there’s another one almost nobody uses, but whether it’s possible or cost effective time wise is different.
Here are a bunch of tracks I found forever ago using the M1 emulator. You must download M1 (and preferably the BridgeM1 graphical interface) or the track numbers I identified won't make sense. The video says you need to install MAME, but you don't. Just need the ROMs zip file from IPDB.
Quoted from Crash:I've been playing the game just about my whole life and have never heard tracks 3, 48, 52, 54, 56, 58, and 62. Track 50 is the current croc clock countdown jingle but 52, 54, 56, and 58 are single channel events, clearly not full tracks. It sounds like 56 and 58 are designed to fit together for an alternate croc clock countdown.
Here they are individually, followed by a mix of 56 and 58. Definitely sounds like something that was either not completed by Brian or not mixed/implemented.
https://soundcloud.com/titan91-1/hook-unused-channels
Quoted from radfordian3505:hello fellow hook fans.my hook is acting up the flashers are not working anf the knocker is going off for no resaon.and the ball will not come out to start a game.absolutely love my hook and any help is greatly appreciated
Sounds like a bad A/C relay on the driver board, or bad solder joints on the relay. Seen this exact issue and reflowing the solder on the relay fixed it.
Can’t say, it’s just one cause of the issue I have seen. Reflow the joints on the relay and try it again.
Just tested our Hook for the display bug. Couldn't reproduce the issue, but I did notice a slight flashing glitch while scrolling through the instant info list, possibly related? Ignore the outgassing display. I'm talking about the score showing for a split second in the middle of the instant info sequence.
Quoted from Bay78:Finally I got my Hook back home tonight! I sold it 7 years ago and have missed it greatly since. And not only did Hook return, but it's the exact same one I sold 7 years ago!
Quoted from hawkeyexx:Your welcome for the decals. I support Cliffy too and appreciate all of his hard work. I will be posting some updates on Hook soon. Cleaning the playfield has been a tast for me and Orangesc ( My Wife ) we found broken glass from a bulb,broken plastics and dried rubber pieces. Last night we worked on looking at different colors bulbs for the playfield.
Same to you, my decals look factory new. The laser cut edges are perfect. Now all I need to do is order the ramp.
1 week later
This is the ticking clock sound. It's supposed to play when inserting the first quarter and when advancing crock clock via the Rufio ramp. Your sound ROMs are corrupted.
3 weeks later
I believe the small connector carries 9v and the larger one is for an unused ticket dispenser. I’ve seen that small connector loose before in our game.
1 week later
1 week later
Question, do either of you guys have an X-Pin aftermarket power supply? Some of those are known to cause issues with the display at certain times during gameplay due to a weak 12v power output.
First of all you will need to trace down where the 5v power supply going to the display is failing. The 5v drops below a certain threshold and causes the display to reset. Check the 5v input on the power connector going to the display. If it's low, trace the harness back to where it connects to the power supply and locate at which points you are getting voltage loss. It will most likely involve replacing connectors, as these corrode and get loose over time affecting the connection.
4 weeks later
Quoted from hawkeyexx:I finished the assembly of hook today. Before I did the tear down of the playfield I noticed while playing a game the sound would stop playing when the ball crossed over the switch on the wind coaster ramp. I had all the boards serviced by Ardvark pinball. The MPU was repaired the power supply was rebuilt and the GI board was checked. I installed new LED DMD. Today I start a game and when the ball crosses over that wind coaster switch the sound stops and the lights appear to short out. Anyone seen this before?
Yes, I'm somewhat of an "expert" on this and initially raised awareness in the below 2 threads. The below two people were using a Rottendog power supply and 1 was using an X-Pin revision E power supply. I also had the issue with the same X-Pin board. But in all of those 4 cases I'm aware of, the issue was inadequate +12v supply current due to flaws in aftermarket board design. In your case, the power supply is original and rebuilt. So I'm curious to know what the cause is with your game. Describe what the rope lights do when you press the switch on the ramp. They should all flash in a consistent pattern and display a chase animation otherwise.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bizarre-audio-break-up-problem-on-hook
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/data-east-hook-windcoaster-ramp-causes-sound-card-to-cut-out
I would strongly suggest going with a DMDMK66 color DMD from PinballSP, he is the only one working on a color version of this and build quality is second to none. I think his 128x16 version is ready now, may want to ask him in the below thread.
Several people have had bad luck with PIN2DMD products, particularly with regards to poor design and lack of communication from Dominic who designs the hardware. I would avoid that one.
1 week later
4 weeks later
Technically it’s a Data East System 3 game. The next version is the Data East/Sega 3b which is based on System 3 and made by Data East which changed their name to Sega starting with Frankenstein in 1994.
The skill shot issue may be divots in the playfield underneath the skill shot plastic hanging the ball.
3 months later
That looks correct for an unregulated 12v supply. From my experience the negative side will be a bit more deviated from 12 than the positive side.
Here's a tip, and this is likely to be the problem. Take the glass off and manually trigger the switch on the windcoaster ramp. Does it flash the rope lights and cause the sound to cut out? If so, this is a confirmed issue with X-Pin and Rottendog power supplies. Let's start there.
1 month later
Here’s a tip for routing the harnesses for the rope lights, windcoaster lamp, and windcoaster switch. This will prevent the cables from rubbing against the left side of the cabinet when raising and lowering the playfield.
C7EA6ADD-6D3F-4E45-99AC-7A7CB1903692 (resized).jpegC1378DD0-D918-404C-AC93-23EBC0B5EF13 (resized).jpeg
And it’s almost done! The game is playable now. Just a few more tweaks to do.
Are you sure the game's CPU isn't freezing, as in the light show on the playfield stops animating as well as the display? Does it coin up but just not start a game?
Quoted from desertT1:He said it registers coins, and after the power cycle the credit is still there.
Ok, I would test the switch with several presses in a switch test and see if you can reproduce the issue. If you can, try jumping the leads for the switch together with a wire and see if it’s a mechanical issue with the switch.
1 week later
Check your 5v power coming from the power supply board using the 5v test point and ground. What does your multimeter show for voltage here?
1 week later
Pull the playfield out a little more than try and pivot it vertically. Once it's at a certain angle it will just rest on the playfield rails instead of sliding back.
2 weeks later
Hey Chad, I don't know if this happened with the factory software but whenever there is a switch closed on the playfield during the "playfield status" screen, the below appears. I would expect this to be normal as the game's way of telling you about a stuck switch. But this also displays when there is a drop target down, which is normal until the next bank reset. It always shows switch 00 with label "switch test," which doesn't exist. Not all switches trigger this when pressed on this screen, any of the 3 the trough and shooter lane switches do not. I was wondering if this was intentional.
6F3B7DA6-D5CF-4414-A7E4-62291A6ED0F5 (resized).jpeg
Also, occasionally it will take my game about 3 or 4 seconds after the ball has drained to end the ball. The ball is detected and is kicked back into the trough, and I don't see any switch errors or unusual switches open or closed during active switch test.
I'm still running v5.00, and intend to update to 5.01 soon.
1 week later
I would strongly suggest going with Titan silicone rings instead of normal rubber rings. They last much longer and are much easier to clean.
2 months later
Quoted from Chalkey:The sound is resetting and starting with hook hook hook. The game seems to reset when multiball is going and you start crock clock and hit a jackpot. The 12v line is at 9.8 or so, I'm going to start there.
Are you using an original or aftermarket power supply? If aftermarket, what brand?
1 week later
Quoted from DBLM:Hey Crash, can you share how it does on location? I always heard that Hook did ok on location back in the day.
I’ll try to get an accurate count on weekly earnings as I don’t do the collecting.
2 weeks later
Quoted from DBLM:Hey Crash, can you share how it does on location? I always heard that Hook did ok on location back in the day.
The game made $11 from Monday to Saturday, totaling $15 through the weekend. But this was a slow week due to people traveling for Easter.
Quoted from DBLM:Thanks for sharing! How does that compare with your other games?
We don’t keep weekly per game totals. But I would say below average.
1 week later
1 week later
Quoted from vbobrusev:This game is already colorized for pin2dmd
That is irrelevant to the DMDMK66 project.
1 month later
3 weeks later
The first thing I would do is get a reading on the +12v section of the power supply board. This board is in the upper left of the backbox and has little loops in the upper right corner of the board to place your red probe in for +12v Unreg. and black probe in for Gnd (ground). Be very careful to not let the probes touch each other and short out the connection. There is also high voltage present on that power supply board so also be very careful not to touch any fuses or other metal items on the board with your hands or the probes.
Hmm, the PinballSP DMDMK66 128x16 is essentially a 128x32 panel with half of the pixels on top and bottom unused. I wonder if Luis can write a firmware update to allow 128x32 bitmap frames to be used on 128x16 games?
3 weeks later
Quoted from kciaccio:Thanks! Is there a site to buy this plug and play yet?
Quoted from pinballsp:To buy the DMDMK66 and any product that I manufacture, you can contact me by private forum messaging, email [email protected], Skype pinballsp, WhatsApp +34693344445, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Pinballsp
DMDMK66 128x32, price 197 € + shipping costs (26€ for most of European countries).
Optional extras; preconfigured micro SD card + € 12, Amber filter + € 23.
You do not have to pay any kind of licenses with my products, the use of the Magic Editor is completely free and without limitations so you can use it to color any game, and the games that I color will also be free to download and use.
Regards
Quoted from Malenko:I think he means that can display the game in color
Correct, I misread. Sorry about that.
1 month later
Quoted from astyy:run22 your symptoms remind me of the thread below, where the rope pulls down the 12V supply to below the sound board threshold, the problem normally applies on 3rd party power boards (you mention original) but something else to read/check
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bizarre-audio-break-up-problem-on-hook
Building on what I said in that thread, anyone having this issue needs to investigate the +12v unregulated power rail with a meter. If this drops to 9v it will cause the amplifiers on the sound board to turn off until the voltage comes back up. Shooting the wind coaster ramp causes the rope lights to draw a high amount of current from the +12v supply. If this is happening, it is not the rope lights or the rope light aux driver board. That's only the symptom, the root cause is a weak +12v power supply. I would verify all connectors for that line are good and replace capacitors on your power supply, particularly C4 if using an original board.
In my case, I was using an X-Pin aftermarket power supply with a faulty +12v rail. I had to modify the board to include a larger filter cap which resolved the problem.
3 weeks later
Hopefully Brett has resolved issues with the regulated +12v power supply on X-Pin boards. If you test shooting the windcoaster ramp and the sound still cuts out, I would contact him with a multimeter voltage reading on the +12v supply while the rope lights are flashing. He’s very helpful.
2 weeks later
Quoted from kciaccio:Why didn't you go color? I went color and it is amazing.
He must be using “tasteful” LEDs. Not all need to be color.
2 months later
Quoted from FiatsRUs:I am shopping a Hook that I acquired recently and have a question about the deflector for the center hole. The one on this machine is cocked to the right (viewed standing at the front of the machine). If the factory mounting holes were used, it would be straight. Has anyone seen this before or is aware of a reason for this?[quoted image][quoted image]
I would imagine bricked shots were going straight down the middle and the angle was adjusted with new screw holes to prevent this.
3 months later
Quoted from MadMax1998:I have one question regarding my flippers: I can make shots up the Windcoaster ramp fine when the ball comes down the inlane, but I hardly make a shot up the ramp from a resting ball held with the right flipper. The ball will usually go up to *right* before the kink in the ramp, then come back down and STDM. Is this normal behaviour, i.e. do other players have trouble shooting the Windcoaster from rest, or is it my flipper assembly? (I need to rebuild both assemblies and I'm still trying to find out what coils the game needs.)
I would say the flipper assembly. If the plunger and stop look good and I can't make it up the Windcoaster ramp, I just replace the coil sleeve and clean the plunger. That usually improves things quite a bit and is pretty inexpensive. In fact, I have this issue now and need to re-sleeve my flipper coils.
So I uncovered a pretty big bug a while back which I forgot about until today. If the game suggests adjusting the replay value down when entering the service menu and you don't press the start button (forgo the suggested adjustment), there's a chance the start button won't start a game. I thought I knocked the switch loose but it registers in switch test. I also power cycled the game which didn't clear the bug.
The only way to start a game is enter the service menu again, install the suggested replay value adjustment, and exit back to attract mode. I'm not sure if this could cause a situation that could make the game unplayable in a location setting, as it requires you to enter and exit the service menu. But Chad I think it's worth looking in to if you want to try and reproduce it on your end.
1 month later
The relay is most likely fine. The dry solder joints were the actual issue from all the clicking vibration. No need to replace an expensive relay in this case.
1 month later
Malenko doesn't want to acknowledge competition is good for the market with that thumbs down on your post. Looks great.
8 months later
Quoted from Asanteiro:Problem DMD
Hello friends... can you help me?
My screen pulls a weak lines ....
Before it did not happen to me
I checked the values of the R95. It is ok.
I see everything fine ... what could it be?
Top line on each strip.
Greetings
Alex![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Your DMD is likely outgassed and must be replaced. Heres a great option I've run 24/7 on route with zero problems:
1 month later
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