(Topic ID: 86132)

Hook Club - Hook is back!


By winteriscoming

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 4 hours ago by desertT1
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#37 4 years ago
Quoted from winteriscoming:

I invite you to discuss a change in rules here. We'd have to get someone like ChadH of Star Wars and currently JP fame on board. I bet he'll want a break after JP, though! I think a challenge might be that many of the scores or whatever are listed on the PF, so I don't think it would be good to rewrite anything that changes the specific scores, but maybe rather the way you score. Like maybe hit the right ramp, hit the skull, and hit the ball lock to light up the 3 Million on the windcoaster for a couple seconds.

Hook has been suggested to me several times now. I don't own a Hook and have only played it very little so I am unfamiliar with the rules... but any suggestions for changes posted to this thread to make the game better would, at the very least, be filed away for future reference.

1 week later
#44 4 years ago
Quoted from winteriscoming:

Maybe I'm just a terrible player, but I don't seem to be able to keep making that shot consecutively up to the 3 million very often.
I'm still pretty new to pinball, so is that something seen in another game?

It was in Star Wars and it was way overpowered since the ramp shot in Star Wars is pretty easy to loop. Of course, that was fixed.

1 year later
#205 2 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

i've owned hook for awhile. I love the look and layout. Just wish the rules were redone. If they were rewritten, it could be awesome.

I'd love to do it. Just need someone near by to lend me their Hook for six months. Anyone out there interested?

1 month later
#211 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Absolutely needs to happen. Game has a great layout but is seriously limited by the code.

If anyone has a Hook in Chicagoland area, I am interested in buying it. PM me.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wanted-hook-data-east-1992

#218 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

As far as I know it's going to be a major rewrite just like previous games.

Yep. Just need a Hook. Anyone have one they want to lend for 6 months?

#220 2 years ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

I'll ship you mine

I appreciate the offer but I'd prefer to not deal with shipping machines back and forth. I want to hold out for someone within a few hours driving distance of Chicago.

#223 2 years ago
Quoted from agodfrey:

Tempted. A few hours away but this is would be worth it.....I'll see when I might be up that way

Looks like you are actually 6 hours away (assuming you are in Granville, OH?). Totally appreciate the consideration but there's got to be someone closer out there?

#225 2 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

The major rules that need to be addressed in a re-write are...

I know a guy...

#230 2 years ago

Check out this picture from my basement. Scott from Underground Retrocade in West Dundee, IL, has HOOKed me up!

image_(resized).jpeg

#240 2 years ago

Does anyone know of a Hook rules guide? A lot of games on IPDB have one... I'm surprised no one has typed one up for Hook.

#247 2 years ago

Wow... this is great! Very helpful. Thank you!

How have I missed this (redacted) until now? I have just (redacted).

#248 2 years ago
Quoted from agodfrey:

There are two lamps near the VUK (left clock shot) that have yellow covers on them that never turn on. The bulbs are good, wires look good. When should those turn on?

I believe these are GI bulbs. Probably just extra light for that area. Mine have white covers on them. But maybe they were once yellow but have faded.

#260 2 years ago

From what I can tell... the regular Max Bonus in this game is 250,000. If you also get Max Multiplier of 10X, then the best you can ever get is 2.5 Million. Wow, that is painfully low!

(This is not counting the other bonuses that are possible.)

#262 2 years ago

Fun Hook Fact Of The Day

When activated via the Skull shot, the six awards that can be collected at the Right Scoop change every time you hit a Pop Bumper.

The logic works in such a way that the next one to be lit is random... but the choices are weighted as such:

Lite Super Bumpers 31.25 %
5 Million 18.75 %
Light Croc Time 12.5 %
Fast Scoring 12.5 %
Skull 20 Million 12.5 %
Max 'X' 12.5 %

This is why you probably see Lite Super Bumpers most often.

Also, the logic has nothing preventing it from choosing the same selection multiple times in a row. So hitting those Pop Bumpers doesn't always move the lights every time one is hit.

Wouldn't it be nice if every time you hit a Pop Bumper, it would instead just rotate among the six choices? This way you are still "randomly" given a selection... but the randomness would be based on the Pop Bumper hits. This would actually give some sort of control to the player... or at least a somewhat predictable randomness.

IMG_8346_(resized).JPG

#264 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Did you determine this by reverse engineering the code? Don't you mean right scoop?

Oops. You are correct! Corrected above.

#265 2 years ago

Fun Hook Fact Of The Day (#2)

Instant Info is bugged, bugged, bugged!

Go ahead... hold down a flipper during gameplay and watch Instant Info... depending on what you've collected so far, it wants to show you these things:

Instant Info
Current Replay Value (if you have not surpassed it yet)
Current Bonus Value
Current Clock Value (if you have collected any)
Current Fast Scoring (if you have collected any)
Current Multiplier (if you have collected any)
Current Extra Ball Count (if you have collected any)
Current High Scores

However, this thing is chock full of bugs!!!

Bug #1: The pauses between many of these items is too long and the game keeps defaulting back to the regular score display for a second, thus making the Instant Info seem chaotic and disjointed.

Bug #2: If you have collected both Clock Value and Fast Scoring Value then the game will only show Clock Value and Fast Scoring Value is not displayed.

Bug #3: If you have collected a Bonus Multiplier, it will be shown but Extra Ball and/or High Scores will not be displayed.

Wouldn't it be nice if these all worked smoothly and as planned?

#275 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

More Hook facts Chad? I love watching you tear this mess of a game apart.

There will be more as I continue to dig. This is a long process.

Keep pointing out any peculiarities or score imbalances you guys see. I am noting everything.

#284 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

There's at least one bug with the service menu. One is the directional pushbutton doesn't work. Regardless of whether you have the button depressed, you can only move forward. Please fix this!

Mine is able to able to go forwards and backwards depending on that pushbutton. Maybe something is wrong with your button? (This is on the latest released ROM of v.4.08)

#286 2 years ago

Thanks Crash... I've noted your suggestions. I think that is the behavior in Diagnostics on all Data East game. Can only go one direction.

Here's something...

Adjustment 43 - Loop Timer (possible settings are Extra Easy, Easy, Factory, Hard, Extra Hard). Manual has the description of "Determines how long the Loop feature remains enabled in seconds at its highest level. At lower levels the time will be proportionate to the setting. Extra Easy = 6 seconds, Easy = 5.5 seconds, Factory = 5 seconds, Hard = 4.5 seconds, Extra Hard = 4 seconds)"

However, this setting actually has no effect on the game. I am wondering what this was supposed to do? Maybe this was meant to control how quickly the Left Ramp bonus lowers its value? What do you guys think?

#289 2 years ago
Quoted from LarryMac:

Also, possibly a code issue, a couple times when I have set a new world record score, I get the credits, I get to put in my initials, but then the game resets all the high scores to the values set in the adjustment table. I'm pretty sure somebody else reported this a ways back in the this thread.

Woohoo! I found this bug! You are correct, it only potentially happens when you achieve a new World Record (aka High Score #1).

The good news is that I have a fix that you can implement today!

If you want a temporary work around that will prevent the bug from happening in your game then set your Backup World Record (Adjustment 24) to one of these values:

100,000,000
200,000,000
300,000,000
400,000,000
500,000,000
etc...

For the work around, the one-hundred-millions place must be a set to an integer (other than 0) and everything else (the ten-millions-place and below) must all be zeros.

Really... just set it to 100,000,000 or 200,000,000 depending on how good you are because anything higher with the current scoring is kind of crazy.

(Note, there is also Adjustment 30 named Reset H.S.T.D. Every which is defaulted to 700 so your High Scores will reset if that number of plays is reached. You can set this adjustment to OFF if you prefer.)

Do this and all your high scores will be safe from reset!

#291 2 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

From what I can tell... the regular Max Bonus in this game is 250,000. If you also get Max Multiplier of 10X, then the best you can ever get is 2.5 Million. Wow, that is painfully low!
(This is not counting the other bonuses that are possible.)

More info on how End Of Ball Bonus is increased in v.4.08.

The bonus starts at 1,000. Each switch increases it by a set amount customized per switch.

The maximum is 250,000.

Here are the switches and how much they increase End Of Ball Bonus:
Left Outlane = 4,000
Right Outlane = 4,000
Left Return = 2,000
Right Return = 2,000
Upper Left VUK = 4,000
Left Ramp Exit = 3,000
Turbo Bumpers = 1,000
Slingshots = 1,000
Upper Right Rollover = 3,000
Right 10 Point = 1,000
Right Single (Lite Slingshot) Target = 2,000
Left 3 Bank Top = 2,000
Left 3 Bank Middle = 2,000
Left 3 Bank Bottom = 2,000
Right 3 Bank Top= 2,000
Right 3 Bank Middle = 2,000
Right 3 Bank Bottom = 2,000
Upper 3 Bank Top = 2,000
Upper 3 Bank Middle = 2,000
Upper 3 Bank Bottom = 2,000
Drop Targets = 2,000
Power Scoop Right or Skull = 4,000

Switches that do not increase End Of Ball Bonus:
Left Ramp Entrance
Right Ramp Entrance
Right Ramp Exit
Top Bonus Multiplier Lane Left
Top Bonus Multiplier Lane Middle
Top Bonus Multiplier Lane Right

#292 2 years ago

Here's a tip you might not know...

If it is your last ball and you shoot the Right Scoop when it is not lit then Mystery Award will give you your normal random amount but it will also lite the Extra Ball lamp at the Skull if your Extra Ball Percentage (seen via Audit 13) is below a certain threshold.

So if you are on your last ball, you may want to shoot for that Right Scoop. You may just light Extra Ball.

#295 2 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

So rules clarification: If you hit all of the drops down, should they reset, or will they stay down as a head start on whatever mode wants you to hit them all down? I was asked this the other day and I have no idea. It's not my game and I don't have much time on it.

They should reset after all are dropped or in between balls.

They will advance and collect the Left Ramp Value by at least 2X (the equivalent of making at least two Left Ramp shots). In fact, I have found that if you knock them down quickly or if you knock down the last two at the same time then they will advance and collect the Left Ramp Value by 4X or even 6X.

Also, they are used to collect the Pirate Award that is randomly offered up on your last ball but in this instance you only need to hit one of them.

#298 2 years ago

Yep. Drops will reset regardless in between balls. I'll bet at least one of the drop target switches isn't working. Easy enough to test in switch test mode.

#302 2 years ago
Quoted from LesManley:

Another annoying thing I remembered while playing Hook the other night is hitting the jackpots in sequence successfully, but too fast, and they don't award. The game wants to play out almost the whole long jackpot animation before it will register another jackpot. In MB, it's very easy to hit them too fast to count because the game is still waiting for the animation to finish. It shouldn't necessarily recognize the next jackpot a fraction of a second after getting the first one, but it definitely should two seconds later. I hate being in the zone, shooting left ramp, right ramp, left ramp, right ramp...and then looking up and seeing I only got credit for 2 jackpots.

No worries. I got this one covered.

#304 2 years ago
Quoted from agodfrey:

Seriously. Let me know if you need help. I have no idea what I could do but.... I'll help!

For now the best thing you can all do is play your games and note anything you'd like changed. Especially with a focus on score balancing. How do all the shots/modes/features feel as far as points balance? I'm open to all suggestions.

#308 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

This is minor, but the score screen flashes briefly after a plunged skill shot miss, plunged lock miss, or playfield triggered skill shot/lock miss. The score is shown for a split second between the switch closure and the miss message/fanfare.

Yep. And these are some of the things I like to fix. No detail is too small! I've noticed what seems to be an excessive amount of oddities with the timing of the display. As if they never went back and fine-tuned things.

Quoted from Crash:

This may be my display outgassing, but the skull hurry-up award only displays two skulls on either side of the screen. What is supposed to show here, if anything? This screen also shows 20 million briefly before playing the skull collect animation or after draining with the countdown running.

This is odd as the game is supposed to be showing the 20,000,000 during the 10 second count down. Not sure why yours is not.

IMG_8477[1]_(resized).JPG

Also... I am thinking 10 seconds for this Skull mode is just way too fast. 15 to 20 seconds feels better for me.

Quoted from Crash:

"One," "two," "three," "four," "ball," "strike," and "home run" callouts are all used. You score a strike when you successfully make the right lane beside the baseball ramp and send the ball into the bumpers. If your shot misses it falls into the kicker lane behind it and you score a ball. Thinking of ways of using those callouts alternatively... maybe during the last four seconds of an important mode countdown?

Unfortunately, those are not discrete voice calls. They are actually "Ball one", "ball two", "strike one", "strike two", etc. No way of just having it say "One", "two", etc.

Quoted from Crash:

The "500k x ball in play" left outlane insert does not always light when this feature is lit.

This is actually tied to the flipper and the slingshot by default. It's a lane change. When you drain you want to make sure it is lit and can change it via the flipper. Mine seems consistent but I'll double check. Possibly your lamp needs tweaking?

Quoted from Crash:

Completing the cannon drop target bank advances the windcoaster ramp value as indicated on the playfield. If you reach the maximum of 3 million this will actually roll back over to 250k if you, for example, miss the ramp or possibly complete the bank by accident when collecting a pirate award. This is the first time in pinball I've seen a feature actually reduce the value of a separate feature by completing it, the game punishes you for this (although you do get points for completing the bank regardless).

Dropping the targets has the same effect as hitting that Right Ramp Exit switch. So if the act of dropping the targets has brought the ramp to the 3M max, then it will go away quickly just like it would after a regular 3M ramp shot.

Quoted from Crash:

Also, about the "3m plus" insert, is there supposed to be a way to get more than 3 million points before the windcoaster value resets?

I can see the code where they originally had the Left Ramp actually increase up to 12 Million but then they locked it at 3M. Probably for scoring balance and to try to prevent someone from spamming the Left Ramp all day.

#312 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I took a look at the sounds and found a few unused callouts and possibly some unused jingles around the croc clock hurry-up in the event table. I used m1 with the Bridgem1 frontend if you want to listen but I had to rip the callouts manually.
https://soundcloud.com/titan91-1/hook-unused-callouts
Not sure what the second sound is, Tinkerbell humming?

I think that second sound is the sound test tone.

The first one "come back and fight me now" and also that third one of the children chanting the rooster crow are not used.

Which jingles do you think are unused? (I am not familiar enough with the game to identify what's used and not.)

Also, I don't think that the "Strike Three!" voice call is ever used. Another one that is not used is "You can fly!", although that is heard but only with another longer voice call that has "You can fly, you can fight, you can [rooster crow]".

#315 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I've been playing the game just about my whole life and have never heard tracks 3, 48, 52, 54, 56, 58, and 62. Track 50 is the current croc clock countdown jingle but 52, 54, 56, and 58 are single channel events, clearly not full tracks. It sounds like 56 and 58 are designed to fit together for an alternate croc clock countdown.
Here they are individually, followed by a mix of 56 and 58. Definitely sounds like something that was either not completed by Brian or not mixed/implemented.
https://soundcloud.com/titan91-1/hook-unused-channels

Not sure how you are capturing that music but if you call it in the game, it actually plays a full stereo track with more instruments. Anyways, the one that chants "Hook" is actually played during Bangarang. The interesting thing is that all three of the hurry up Right Scoop modes (Skull, Fast Scoring, and Croc Clock) all play the same music with the clock ticking and the chanting of "Rufi-o". But here's the cool part, there are two unused music tracks that also have the clock ticking which would be perfect for these... instead of all three playing the same music, each could have their own unique music (two of which are unheard so far).

Quoted from Crash:

Is "You can fly" its own event though it's part of the sentence?

There is one where it is it's own event, and another where it is said along with the "You can fly, you can fight, you can [rooster crow]".

#316 2 years ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

Anyone ever get there ball stuck here? I am constantly having problems with balls getting stuck here and I've tried everything. Any suggestions?

See that metal piece that the ball is resting against on the lower right? I would say bend that outwards a bit so the ball cannot rest inside there.

#321 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

"One," "two," "three," "four," "ball," "strike," and "home run" callouts are all used. You score a strike when you successfully make the right lane beside the baseball ramp and send the ball into the bumpers. If your shot misses it falls into the kicker lane behind it and you score a ball.

Question for everybody.

Does your game have a one-way gate at top end of the lane under the Skill Shot area? This gate would prevent the ball from re-entering that lane after the ball is in play.

I've spoken with Crash and his does not have a gate here. But mine does have a gate here.

It actually seem that rules-wise, the lane should >>>not<<< have a gate and should allow the ball to fall in there. That way if you make that shot successfully into the upper lane Multiplier section then you are given an umpire call of "Strike". But if you don't make the shot and the ball falls down into the Skill Shot lane, then you are given an umpire call of "Ball".

Anyways... if you could please check and let me know.

#326 2 years ago

Interesting. So far 2 out of 3 did not have a gate.

Would love to hear all other Hook owners chime in... does your game have a gate?

#332 2 years ago

So... 6 people have chimed in about the gate. 3 have the gate. 3 do not have the gate.

The game code seem to be written as if there should not be a gate.

I wonder what the history is of this? Did they start building without a gate and then add the gate later? Or vice-versa? And why? Is it a conspiracy? Hookgate!

(BTW, there is a bug in the code where umpire calls "Ball One" twice before moving on to "Ball Two".)

#341 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I don't plan on posting a lot more detailed stuff in this thread but as reference material for everyone

Nice attention to detail. Thanks!

#343 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Honestly, this has got to be the downright buggiest pin I've ever seen.

No doubt!

Found another bug. During Multiball, if you increase the Jackpot past 99 Million (by hitting the various Weapons targets), it rolls over to 0 Million.

#345 2 years ago

No... the typical Jackpot fanfare but it shows 0 MILLION and you get 0 million.

#356 2 years ago

Bangarang is not what we think it is.

Bangarang is a 20 second timed mode that is activated after you collect all six Right Scoop awards.

According to the instructions in the manual, Bangarang is supposed to give you 5M points for each of the "Major Features" and they are listed as:
1) Skull
2) Windcoaster Ramp (Left Ramp)
3) Clock Shop (VUK)
4) Baseball Shot (Strike)

According to the Instruction Card on the apron "Completing Bangarang awards 50 Million & lites all features".

But that is not at all true. Not even close!

Instead... this is how it actually works...

At the start of the mode you are given 5M towards your Bangarang total.

These shots will add 5M to the Bangarang total:
1) Skull
2) Right Ramp

That's it. Nothing more.

Oh... and at the end of the mode you are granted an extra 25M to the Bangarang total. And to add insult to injury, if your Bangarang total goes over 100M then it wraps around to 0M.

#358 2 years ago
Quoted from LarryMac:

I would add to the list that when you've made a high score, the whole sequence of events at the end is jacked.

Yep. This is still true in v.4.08 which is what I have in my game.

#361 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Why in the world would there be code in the game to reset the score to zero? I would normally think a buffer overflow, but if this were an 8 bit integer it would go all the way up to 255 before rolling back around. A 7 bit integer would max out a 127, a 6 bit maxes out at 63.

It's not code to reset to zero... it's code that doesn't prevent it from happening. The Bangarang Bonus is stored in such a way that it is only capable of 0 to 99,999,999. They didn't prevent it from passing 99,999,999 nor did they expand it so it could handle a number higher than 99,999,999... so instead it just rolls over if passed.

The problem applies to several things in the game:
Bangarang Bonus
Jackpot Bonus
Croc Clock Bonus
Fast Scoring Bonus

They either did not notice... or did not care enough to fix this. My guess is they knew this but thought that not many people would achieve such high numbers and I am sure schedules were really tight.

Help is on the way!

#365 2 years ago

Another Hook oddity...

There is a 10 second Ball Save. The only problem is... the timer starts when the ball is ejected into the shooter lane. So if you don't plunge >right away< you are wasting precious Ball Save time. Wouldn't it be nice if the timer started when you actually plunged the ball and either missed or hit the skill shot?

By the way, there is another check when the ball drains... if less than 2 switches have been hit then you get Ball Save (regardless of the timer).

#368 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

There is no countdown timer on the DMD for pirate awards, just the sprite of the ship and mode text. This would be really nice to have.

Actually, there is a timer on the right side. Maybe this is related to your display outgassing you were mentioning earlier?

#374 2 years ago

Something odd I've noticed...

Both outlanes have an insert labeled "500K X Ball In Play". These alternate (by default) when a sling shot is activated or a flipper button is pressed. Basically, you want to have this lamp lit if the ball drains down that outlane.

If it is not lit then you get 250K X Ball In Play... and if it is lit then you are granted 500K X Ball In Play.

But here's the odd part... there are two videos played when you drain via the outlanes. One is "I've Lost My Marbles" (which also plays the voice call of "I've lost my marbles") and the other is "Big Value" (which also plays either the voice call of "You can't escape me, Peter" or "The crocs got me!") . The problem is that these just alternate regardless of whether the "500K X Ball In Play" is lit or not.

It would seem to make MUCH more sense to always have the "Big Value" graphic/sounds played if the "500K X Ball In Play" is lit upon drain. And always have the "I've Lost My Marbles" graphic/sound played if the "500K X Ball In Play" is not lit upon drain.

#376 2 years ago

I think that "something" is just the regular score display that normally plays when nothing is happening. This game seems to show that quickly in between videos a lot. I'll bet that flash is amplified with an out gassing display?

#378 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

It looks like the fast scoring, victory lap, and multiball restart modes show the scores and countdown text at full brightness, unlike the skull and pirate hurry-ups. Can you confirm this?

Confirmed.

With an outgassing display, I bet you are missing some of the finer details on the animations if you cannot see any of the "dim" dots.

#388 2 years ago

Anyone going to MGC this weekend? Check out the Hook that will be there.

#393 2 years ago

Yep. We had to move it last night to make more room. I leveled the game this morning around 10am just before the show reopened.

#396 2 years ago

I'm hanging out often at the booth (Underground Retrocade) just to the right of Hook. Red shirt. Glasses.

1 week later
#400 2 years ago
Quoted from LarryMac:

I would add to the list that when you've made a high score, the whole sequence of events at the end is jacked. I'd have to go set one and take notes, but I think you get end of game call outs, then match, then something else, then finally enter initials.

After a post-MGC break , I'm back in "Hook mode"!

You are right... the Enter Initials screen doesn't happen until after the Match sequence... which is way wrong! This is now fixed.

1 week later
#413 2 years ago

Here's another Hook bug...

If you shoot the Skull and then right after the ball ejects from the Right Scoop, you immediately shoot the ball back into the Right Scoop... it will not collect the Scoop Award (Super Bumps, Fast Scoring, 10X, etc).

1 week later
#433 2 years ago

Hmmmm I posted a big post but Pinside chopped it in half. Will repost in a bit.

#437 2 years ago

Let's talk about the Left Ramp and the Drop Targets for a little bit.

Here is my frustration with these two parts of the game and how I perceive most people also feel.

The Drop Targets are completely under utilized in this game. The only time you ever even care about hitting them is during the last ball when the Pirate Bonus pops up. Is there any other time in this game when you even think about them? The Drop Targets also advance the Left Ramp Value by two lamps but ONLY when you drop all four of them.

The Left Ramp during regular gameplay... many of the more skilled players seem to focus on this shot over, and over, and over, and over. Really... watch that PAPA Hook video. The guy is just hitting it constantly. I know he is doing it because you can quickly get it up to 3M per shot and if you just loop it then you get a lot of points.

I hate it when a game has this. What is the fun in shooting the same thing over and over and over?

So, I've been thinking about it... and was wondering... what if hitting the Left Ramp ONLY collected the Ramp Value but did NOT advance the Ramp Value? What if the Drop Targets were the ONLY way to advance the Ramp Value?

Think about it. This would open up those Drop Targets and make you WANT to shoot for them. This also still follows the rules described on the playfield that states "Drop Targets Score And Advance Ramp Value". No where on the playfield does it mention that the Ramp also advances Ramp Value.

Also, what if the Left Ramp Value was no longer capped at 3M? What if it could be increased to 10M or 15M? The insert on the playfield states "3 MILLION PLUS" so no rule would be broken there. What if after you collected the Ramp Value and/or after you drain, the Ramp Value reset to 250K? Maybe even make it so when you first collect the Ramp Value, it does not reset for 5 to 10 seconds... this would give the player a chance to try to loop it multiple times in that short time frame for even bigger points.

I think this would open up a whole new strategy to the regular gameplay part of Hook. It would add the Risk/Reward of trying to figure out when the "cash in" on the Ramp Value points.

Think about it for a little bit and let me know your thoughts.

#449 2 years ago
Quoted from LarryMac:

I suppose there could be a wonky switch, but I don't recall ever having the kickout not occur except in this situation.

It's not a bad switch. It's (yet another!) bug with the code.

#450 2 years ago

What do you all think about the Skull shot?

This shot currently serves these purposes:
1) It will spot a Top Lane (to help build your Bonus Multiplier)
2) If the Right Scoop is not lit, it will relight the Right Scoop.
3) It collects the 20 Million Skull shot during that mode.
4) It collects Extra Ball when lit.
5) It is one of several shots you can shoot during Bangarang to build the Bangarang bonus.

Does this seem to be enough? Should it do anything else?

#466 2 years ago
Quoted from LarryMac:

That weapon target behavior is completely unfamiliar to me - mine light when hit, in whatever order. Also, the VUK spots a weapon target.

Same here. Also, one is spotted at the start of each ball (I think this spotting may stop after first Multiball).

#467 2 years ago

By the way, in 4.08, the VUK always spots a weapon before the first multiball. After the first multiball, the VUK will only spot a weapon if the Right Return Lane light (labeled "Return To Clock Room Spots Target") is lit... I'll bet most of you didn't even realize there was a light there.

#468 2 years ago

Thoughts on these Right Scoop Awards???

LITE BUMPERS
ORIGINAL: Timer is 20 seconds. All pop bumpers are worth 500,000.
UPDATE: Timer is 30 seconds. All pop bumpers are worth 1M.

5 MIL
ORIGINAL: Collect 5M immediately once.
UPDATE: Collect 5M immediately and every time you make Right Scoop Mystery Shot for remainder of game or until Bangarang.

LITE CROC TIME
ORIGINAL: Countdown bonus starts at 15M and ends at 10M. Shoot Right Ramp to collect.
UPDATE: Countdown bonus starts at 25M and ends at 5M. Shoot Right Ramp to collect.

FAST SCORING
ORIGINAL: Timer is 15 seconds. Bonus starts at 2M. All switches add 500,000 to bonus.
UPDATE: Timer is 20 seconds. Bonus starts at 2M. All switches add 500,000 to bonus.

SKULL 20 MIL
ORIGINAL: Timer is 10 seconds. Shoot Skull for 20M.
UPDATE: Timer is 15 seconds. Shoot Skull for 20M.

MAX 'X'
ORIGINAL: Set Bonus Multiplier to 10X and Bonus Hold.
UPDATE: No Change.

BANGARANG (available after collecting the six awards above)
ORIGINAL: Timer is 19 seconds. Bangarang bonus starts at 5M. Each shot to Right Ramp or Skull will increase by Bangarang Bonus by 5M.
UPDATE: Timer is 25 seconds. Bangarang bonus starts at 5M. Each shot to Right Ramp, Skull, Left Ramp, Strike, or VUK will increase Bangarang Bonus by 5M.

1 week later
#481 2 years ago
Quoted from agodfrey:

Really excited for this update.

Me too. I am really happy with how this is turning out!

Quoted from agodfrey:

Do you think this will be ready by the end of the year

Yes. Hopefully much sooner.

#482 2 years ago

Question for all you Hook players.

The Right Ramp AM/PM shot that starts the Shoot Clocks countdown... Do you feel this is started too much and too easily? I think it is activated way too much and almost makes it annoying.

Star Wars had the same issue with the Lite C-3PO Eyes where you shot once to light the left eye and the second shot would light the right eye AND start the mode. This meant that every two shots to that C-3PO Eyes would start the mode. It made it annoying to have it starting so much. So what I did was a I made it so the first shot would light the left eye and the second shot would light the right eye and then the THIRD shot would start the mode. This made that mode play less but the balance felt right.

I feel that Hook needs this same treatment. I am considering making it so the first Right Ramp shot lights AM... and then the second Right Ramp shot lights PM... and then the THIRD Right Ramp Shot starts the Shoot Clocks countdown mode. Sound right?

#485 2 years ago

I found an old comment about Hook from Keith Johnson... concerning the Right Ramp Croc Clock he said "it's pretty much the only points available in the game" and also "Shoot the right ramp twice to start it, then every right ramp shot scores 5M. After it times out, repeat forever."

So this has now been addressed. It now takes three shots to start. You still get 5M added to Croc Clock Bonus for starting the mode but each Right Ramp and VUK shot now only adds 3M to Croc Clock Bonus.

This change along with many other scoring and feature changes in the game should make Keith change his mind if he ever plays this new update.

BTW, when you light both AM and PM, I added in the Tick-Tock-Tick-Tock sound effect as it shows the AM/PM video... and when you start the mode or increase the jackpot by hitting Right Ramp or VUK, it now plays a Clock Chime sound effect.

#489 2 years ago
Quoted from shicketmaster:

Chad, I've noticed that sometimes when the right scoop tosses an unplayable ball straight down the drain, it lets you shoot again and other times it doesn't. My scoop is erratic and throws right down the drain about 30% of the time even after I cleaned it and put a new sleeve in the coil. I doubt this was the intended design but I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem. Is it possible to make it always let you try again if the scoop drains it down the middle with no other sensors getting activated?

There is a really quick (1 second?) ball save timer activated when the ball is shot out of the Right Scoop. Plus the fact that sometimes it takes a second for the game to register that the ball has drained. Sounds like this leads to some inconsistencies with this ball save. I suppose I could make this timer a bit longer to catch more of the straight down the drain ejects... maybe 2 or 3 seconds?

My scoop eject never even comes close to going between the flippers. It usually hits right at the pivot point of the left flipper... sometimes even above the left flipper.

#497 2 years ago

Would anyone be sad if Adjustment 45 - Next Game Promotion was removed (only the adjustment, the next game promotion would be permanently ON) and instead renamed to Adjustment 45 - Tournament Mode? There are a couple random elements to the game I'd like to be able to turn off during tournament mode.

Mystery Award value would be locked at like 500,000 and the start of the Pirate Ship award would always be a set switch count on ball 3 and would always offer 10M. I think those are the only random elements in the game.

#502 2 years ago
Quoted from LarryMac:

On the other hand, why not use Adjustment 39 - Ticket Dispenser? There can't be too many of those installed, can there?

Good suggestion. I'll use this one instead. All you guys with ticket dispensers on your Hook will just have to keep running v.4.08.

2 weeks later
#529 2 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Question for everybody.
Does your game have a one-way gate at top end of the lane under the Skill Shot area? This gate would prevent the ball from re-entering that lane after the ball is in play.
I've spoken with Crash and his does not have a gate here. But mine does have a gate here.
It actually seem that rules-wise, the lane should >>>not<<< have a gate and should allow the ball to fall in there. That way if you make that shot successfully into the upper lane Multiplier section then you are given an umpire call of "Strike". But if you don't make the shot and the ball falls down into the Skill Shot lane, then you are given an umpire call of "Ball".
Anyways... if you could please check and let me know.

There are times when you are building to Multiball where if the ball falls into the Skill Shot lane, it will not automatically eject it and you have to wait for ball search to kick in. I did fix this... but then I realized later that there are times at the start of Ball 3 where (if you are playing poorly) the game will offer you a "pity" Multiball for your Skill Shot and light up the lower Skill Shot hole for Multiball. The problem is that my update would then force the ball to be ejected in this situation... so I had to remove my update.

Also, this is not a shot you can "make" and is instead something that randomly happens... there is no strategy. It is purely luck (or non-luck) when the ball falls down into the Skill Shot lane.

So my answer to the question of "should there be a gate at the top of the Skill Shot lane?" is "Yes."

#531 2 years ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

What about a way to do an add-a-ball feature like on rob zombie?

I don't think Add-A-Ball is possible or practical without an auto-plunger.

#534 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

So are you suggesting the missing gate will not be compatible with your new code?

It will be just as compatible with the new code as it is with the old code. No behavior change.

I think the con of the ball occasionally being stuck in there and having to wait for ball search greatly outweighs the pro of any perceived benefit. This is why I recommend having a gate (regardless of code version).

#535 2 years ago

Since Adjustment 39 (Ticket Dispenser) is now Tournament Mode... this freed up Adjustment 40 (# Tickets Per Award) which is now functioning as an adjustable Ball Save Timer between 0 and 15 seconds... default is 10 seconds. Also, Ball Save Timer now starts counting down after the first switch is hit (before it would start counting down right when the ball was ejected into the Shooter Lane).

#538 2 years ago
Quoted from winteriscoming:

Except it's one of the lights on the skill shot.

Right... and we know what happens when there is a lamp on a game that never lights... some people freak out.

#543 2 years ago
Quoted from shicketmaster:

Are we saying that skill shot 1 will no longer be the start of 2 ball multiball?

No. We are not saying that. It's labeled as such and should remain as such.

2 weeks later
#561 2 years ago

Rumor is that it is a patch that fixes a whole bunch of bugs, balances out scoring, opens up new shots, fixes ball save, adds tournament mode, adds in unused voice calls and music cues, and generally makes the game much more fun.

#563 2 years ago
Quoted from agodfrey:

I see you have taken an interest.....well....you're in luck. See you Sunday.

Uh oh. Does this mean that my favorite secret podcast won't have an in depth updated Hook review after it's released?

#565 2 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

So you're saying it's (the code update) going to be released this weekend?

I'm saying it sounds like he is selling his game before he has a chance to enjoy the update.

#567 2 years ago
Quoted from agodfrey:

Good comprise?

I'm just razzing you...

Your Hook podcast was the first thing that helped me to start to understand the games rules. Was looking forward to a possible follow up podcast after all is said and done. I'm sure you'll find one to play eventually.

Enjoy the WOZ!

#579 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Interesting point on what I like to call the "pity extra ball." What does everyone think about the score threshold for this? It will have to be updated once the balance changes take effect, or else you will never see it.

The pity Multiball is not based on score... it's based on how many Weapon Targets you spotted (or didn't spot) by the time you get to Ball 3.

#585 2 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I think we're talking about 2 different awards. The extra ball appears during the skill shot on ball 3. The multiball, if I remember correctly, also appears at the start of a ball.

The skill shot Extra Ball (top hole) and skill shot Pity Multiball (bottom hole) will only ever appear on your last ball (Ball 3 if your game is set to 3 balls, Ball 5 is your game is set to 5 balls).

Also, Pirate Award will only ever appear on the last ball also.

#587 2 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

Is there already or will you be making a tournament mode or Rom to take out all of the randomness?

Tournament Mode is coming to a Hook near you.

#595 2 years ago
Quoted from shicketmaster:

Only thing I can think is replace the coil and consider purchasing a more powerful one if I do.

Have you confirmed that you have the proper coil in your game?

Also, what about Adjustment 36 (Coils Pulse)? How is yours set? Maybe change it to Hard and see if that helps.

3 weeks later
#621 2 years ago

If you are anywhere near The Underground Retrocade in West Dundee, IL, then go there and check out their Hook pinball machine. It's... unique.

#623 2 years ago

Almost.

Any of you Hook owners have a ROM burner and ability to burn 27C010 and 27C512 EPROMs? If so, send me a private message.

#638 2 years ago
Quoted from Its_me_aj:

So with the new code, will it have the attract mode rules cycling through it?

Yes. The existing ones are still accurate.

4 months later
#725 1 year ago

My unofficial Hook patch has been released!

Bangarang!!! This classic movie themed pinball machine from 1992 now plays better than ever. Newly balanced scoring. Ball Save has been fixed and is now user adjustable. Completely rewritten Left Ramp and Drop Target logic adds a whole new risk/reward challenge. Right Scoop Awards have been overhauled. Multiball jackpots have been increased for better balance. New optional Tournament Mode adjustment has been added. Previously unused voice calls and music have been added. Many, many, bug fixes. Much more!

You can read all the details of the changes and download the patch from my website at:
www.pinballcode.com

Let me know what you think.

Merry Christmas!

#742 1 year ago
Quoted from ChriX:

chadh just wondering, would it be possible to add features such as a 'loop champion' for the windcoaster ramp? I am a programmer but have no understanding at all about how the software on these games is structured or what scope there is for additions like this. To me this seems quite complex as it appears you would need an additional 'per game' variable, as well as all the logic for comparing, storing, entering and displaying the high score for loops which I am guessing would not be present in the game.

That's a tough one. Unless there is a display animation that is unused and/or can be replaced... then it's really hard to add new display items.

However, I was able to add a new display item in Hook... when you hit the Drop Targets, it now displays a new increasing Left Ramp Value text animation. Luckily, there was an existing and unused text animation that was named Special Value. I even slipped this Left Ramp Value text animation into the Instant Info.

Speaking of the Left Ramp Bonus... I am wondering what you all think of this new part of the ruleset. I really dig it because now you actually want to shoot the Drop Targets to build it up. And you can really increase it pretty high to cash in with the Left Ramp shot. Just don't wait to long to cash it in, because if you drain then you lose it! A nice new risk/reward opportunity for the player.

Previously, the only time you ever cared about the Drop Targets was when the Pirate Bonus would appear on the last ball.

#748 1 year ago
Quoted from LesManley:

Is this free play only?

No.

3 weeks later
#774 1 year ago
Quoted from astyy:

Spent more time playing & enjoying the chadh Hook 5. The use of sound and overall timing is far better, you know what's going on from the feedback and the new sound during Crock clock is particularly good. Shooting the targets to increase the Windcoaster is neat too - I'm not good at repetitively making the ramp but I was up to 7 million. I'm struggling now to make the Clocks (you have to shoot Rufio 3 times rather than 2 for AM/PM) but now the Try Again works you can wizz it straight around Rufio to light one which helps and also returns the ball to the right flipper setup for a nice Combo attempt. Also, the mode lights on the scoop are far more accessible being balanced and you can rack them up too.
My only (very) trivial downside is that I preferred the Tinkerbell call out on the Try Again to the new "Come back and fight".
How are others getting on?
Edit. The update is perfect, Tinkerbell still calls Try Again, and Hook Shoot Again!!!

Always appreciate the feedback. Glad to hear you are enjoying it!

4 months later
#835 1 year ago
Quoted from Crash:

Chad, I noticed this while looking through the new default high score initials... are you adding initials for testers as a subtle thank you?

Yep!

1 week later
#838 1 year ago
Quoted from DCRand:

So, guess I am a new member of the Hook club. Picked it up sort of accidentally at Pin A Go Go. Thought I would not like it much and it would probably be a short term member of my small collection. But kind of like it, especially after getting it cleaned up. Need to pull the art off of the back glass and re-apply it to get rid of the hundreds of bubbles. But plays fun, and even after many tries, just can't seem to hit that left ramp over and over, which keeps it challenging at the moment. And so far, my friends really like it.

If you don't have the code update... make sure you get it.

http://www.pinballcode.com/

#845 1 year ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

I love the new code so far. I did find a slight bug where it occasionally says Ball 1 during Ball 3. I messaged Chad on his website, just wanted to post it here too incase he sees this first.

I've never seen this bug nor have I heard any other reports of this. Is this one reproducable? If you are able to make it happen again, it would be very helpful to get this recorded so I can watch it happen. Has anyone else seen this bug?

2 months later
#875 1 year ago
Quoted from ChriX:

Hey guys, a couple of game play questions... I have played loads of games on my machine now and I have never ever had an extra ball or special from the pirate ship targets, it's only ever 10 million. Also no idea what lights them for 10 million! Additionally there's the extra ball insert pointing at the skull, never had this either. Can anyone confirm what/how this is meant to work? I am running Chad's (excellent) code update. Thanks!

I don't recall specifics around Pirate Award choices and how they are determined... but I can tell you that the Pirate Award is only ever offered up on Ball 3. It is activated after hitting a random number of switches between 8 and 80. (If in Tournament mode, it is activated on the same number of switches every time... which if I recall correctly is 80.)

Also, if you are on Ball 3 and get an extra ball, thus playing Ball 3 again, I think Pirate Award will be offered up again.

Actually, I should say that it is offered on the "last ball"... so for example, if your game is set to 5 Balls, then it will only ever be offered on Ball 5.

#876 1 year ago

Speaking of Tournament Mode (newly added in v.5.00 update)... I am curious to know if anyone uses this?

Have you played the 5.00 update in Tournament Mode and in an actual tournament? If so, how did it go?

1 month later
#902 1 year ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

My Jurassic park key worked! Woop!

Some times you get lucky. Same thing happened with a Pinbot I was buying from a lady who didn't have a key. My friend tried a few keys that he happened to have in his pocket and one of them worked!

2 weeks later
#921 1 year ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Anyone have a word issue where all other scores show as zero during multiplayer?

Sounds like your DMD is rebooting in middle of game. Maybe turn game off and check and re-seat all related connectors. Check out astyy's post here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hook-club-hook-is-back/page/18#post-3827856

1 week later
#933 1 year ago
Quoted from Kersch:

Seems kinda odd that multiple people have the same issue with the new ROM 5.0 although I was having similar issues with the original ROM , I’m guessing it’s a code issue and maybe was missed or just not messed with ROM 5 , but the changes and additions are fantastic , makes the game fun again.

Anyone able to capture this happening on video?

#938 1 year ago
Quoted from bobwiley:

Thanks for the info on the LEDs.
As for the "break a window" call out, is it specifically signaling we should hit a specific target/shot, or is it just a random phrase without real significance to the gameplay?

Randomly triggered with the Right Return Lane switch.

#941 12 months ago
Quoted from Kersch:

I can for sure Chad H as I stated earlier it also happens in the original ROM

Thanks. I'd like to see it happen.

Quoted from Kersch:

was it you that updated the code?

Guilty.

#947 12 months ago
Quoted from Kersch:

How do I send you a vid? Email?

Post it on YouTube?

#954 12 months ago

Thanks for posting that video. I was hoping to see a video of before/during/after the issue.

Do you see a DMD reset where it shows the DMD boot screen? Even if for a split second?

hook-display-info (resized).png

If so, there is nothing that code can do to fix this. This is simply a power issue with your DMD and it is restarting. This can happen independent of the CPU so the game keeps playing.

This is also true of the sound board on these games... if the sound board has a power issue it can reboot also and will result in the default sound boot up sound playing "Hook, Hook, Hook!" and usually the music stopping until the next time the game sends a music cue to the sound card.

If your DMD is restarting, chances are that you need to check the power connections. Sometimes just reseating the connections (with game powered off) will get you by for a while, but really, you might have to reflow solder or replace connectors or components (related capacitors?) for a permanent fix.

1 month later
#1018 11 months ago
Quoted from garretswinning:

I have the same problem. All 3 skill shots flash at the same time every time. Haven't dug into it. Suggestions?

Lamp matrix issue. Most likely a diode is either broken, wired wrong, or disconnected somewhere on that column of the matrix.

#1027 10 months ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

A lot of people are having weird DMD issues after upgrading ROMs. I'm going to see if I can find my old roms and see if it fixes the problem or if it's a coincidental hardware issue.

So far I've heard a few complaints about this... but one person mentioned it was happening to his machine before he upgraded to the new ROMs. He then later did some maintenance on his DMD/connectors which fixed it.

Another person, Kersch, also has similar issue but he resolved his with reflowing solder on his power supply:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hook-club-hook-is-back/page/20#post-4100196

I suspect the actual issue is the power to the DMD board is flaky and needs some maintenance. It's important that the DMD receive constant and proper voltage.

1 week later
#1044 10 months ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Any of you guys ever have an issue where you've got a pretty good ball going and it will start yelling "bangarang" after hitting any of the major shots?

Happens during a good ball? Maybe you started the Bangarang mode from the scoop? In this mode, all the major shots award 5M and the Bangarang voice call is played.

#1052 10 months ago

Can you post a video of this? Make sure the game volume is up and we can see both the drop targets and the display in the same shot. Start with hitting one drop target at a time... then speed it up until you are hitting both and you get the issue.

I don't have a Hook in my house so I cannot test this. I do have access to one at a nearby arcade which I can check out later.

#1055 10 months ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

chadH here you go. I guess sometimes it happens with one. Sometimes it's artifacting, sometimes it's a blank DMD which seems like a reset and sometimes it's a full reset that goes back to displaying the code version.
» YouTube video

Excellent video. Nicely captured.

That is certainly acting weird. My gut is telling me there is something wrong with that Display ROM.

The thing is... the CPU ROM will not even boot if corruption is found (it does a simple CRC check at boot up). However, the Data East Display ROMs have no such CRC process so a bad Display ROM will still boot up and play regardless.

Does anyone else get the same (or similar) results? I've never seen this behavior in the game I was coding on.

I will head over to the arcade tonight and bang on that one and see if I can get anything similar.

#1061 10 months ago

Chalkey, the Instant Info also calls that same LEFT RAMP VALUE display routine. What happens when your Instant Info shows it? Does it do anything odd?

lowndes8, is your issue exactly identical? You only get this issue with hitting your drop targets? I want to make sure we are focusing on the exact same issue and not just a similar issue.

#1063 10 months ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Chadh fantastic observation! Holding the flipper and going through the instant info just blanked out my dmd and caused the ball 1 credits 0 display.

Here is the order of items displayed in Instant Info. (I think some will be skipped if there is no value to display).

Where does yours blank out?

Instant Info
Replay Value
Bonus Value
Left Ramp Value
Clock Value
Fast Scoring
Multiplier
Extra Ball
High Scores

#1067 10 months ago
Quoted from lowndes8:

Not exactly the same but i tried a game hittng the targets and they are what is causing the DMD to crash, i played a game by hand with the ball not hitting the targets and the DMD didnt crash

Can you post a similar video to what Chalkey posted? Want to make sure it is identical. It appears that Chalkey's is very consistent with it's failure. Does yours also fail during Instant Info?

There is a known issue where bad power to the DMD (for all Data East games) will also cause the display to reboot. This does not appear to be the issue with Chalkey's game since even the Instant Info (which doesn't have a high power coil type event at the same time) also causes the issue pretty consistently with the Left Ramp Value display event.

#1070 10 months ago

I'm wondering if you two could try a test... keep the v.5.00 CPU ROM in your game, but put your original Display ROM back into the DMD.

How do the Drops/Instant Info behave with this scenario?

(Note, one thing for sure is the game will not display LEFT RAMP VALUE and will probably show SPECIAL VALUE instead.)

#1076 10 months ago

Weird. So the old Display ROM works fine... meaning it is not corrupting/rebooting the DMD. This is a really odd one. I'd love to know if those newly burned display ROMs are somehow corrupt.

I was just at the local arcade that has Hook and there is absolutely no issues with it. It behaves just like KOAmp's and V-piscopo's. It has original 1991 DMD in there as well.

What if you do a Factory Restore (via Adjustment 46)? Does that make the issue go away?

#1080 10 months ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

chadH here you go. I guess sometimes it happens with one. Sometimes it's artifacting, sometimes it's a blank DMD which seems like a reset and sometimes it's a full reset that goes back to displaying the code version.
» YouTube video

If there is anyone here that has the EXACT same issue as shown in Chalkey's (and lowndes8's) video... and also has a ROM burner (or nearby easy access to one) then please contact me. I have a possible code update I'd like to test but I cannot test it on mine since mine does not have the issue.

It needs to be the exact issue that is reproducible on demand as shown in the video.

#1082 10 months ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

ChadH, hero to us all, has updated the code and seems to have resolved the resetting display issue. I can't get it to happen manually hitting the drops or with the instant info. He told me he's going to look at making some more changes and put out an official release sometime soon.
Thank you!!! It's donation time next payday.

I'm very happy this worked! A very strange bug because it only affects a small percentage of Hook games. I am going to have lowndes8 also try the fix on his game and assuming it works, we will be golden.

Just want to reiterate that this fixes the issue demonstrated in post #1053 when hitting the Drop Targets and the game displays garbage on the "Left Ramp Value" screen and sometimes causes the display to restart. Also happens in Instant Info when displaying that same "Left Ramp Value" screen. This does NOT fix a display that has a power issue (no programming can prevent a display from rebooting due to a power issue).

#1087 10 months ago
Quoted from Crash:

There is a code bug, I would wait until an official fix is released.

Yep. There is a bug that seems to affect a very small number of Hook games.

However, I have a fix for it... and I am even throwing in a few updates to the game to make it even better from suggestions I received since the 5.00 patch release.

I need to test it though before releasing a new patch.

Anyone out there have a Hook game (running v.5.00) in their possession for quick testing? Also, you need to have a ROM burner and the ability to burn the CPU ROM (27C512). If so, please Private Message me.

#1090 10 months ago
Quoted from bobwiley:

1. The first is the windcoaster ramp sound effect. I believe it is shared with the pirate ship drop targets. If we could have the windcoaster have its own sound file that would be great.
Current sound file location for the windcoaster that is shared is \sfx00142-space_2

The sound you are referring to plays when the ramp entrance switch is hit on the Left Ramp (a similar but technically different sound is played when hitting the entrance switch for the Right Ramp). I don't see any reference to this sound around the Drop Targets. Are you sure?

Quoted from bobwiley:

2. The AM and PM shot with the clocks ticking is great. Would it be possible to use one sound file for AM and another for PM?
Current sound file location is \sfx00129-clock_mechanism for both AM and PM
Perhaps make AM trigger \sfx00129-clock_mechanism
And PM trigger \sfx00128-clock_chimes or \sfx00117-cuckoo

First shot to Right Ramp triggers AM animation and sfx00129-clock_mechanism, second shot triggers PM animation and sfx00129-clock_mechanism, then the third shot triggers Shoot Clocks and sfx00128-clock_chimes... and then each shot to the Clocks during this mode triggers the same sfx00128-clock_chimes.

The problem with throwing the cuckoo into the mix is that is used else where in the game.

Quoted from bobwiley:

3. This one is a stretch and wishful thinking but the "I hate, i hate peter pan" clip from the attract mode is also used for gameplay. I seems to be triggered quite frequently. It would be nice if it wasn't used for gameplay.

When the ball rolls over the Left or Right Return lanes, it triggers one of eight sound effects:

Try up the ramp
What great games
I hate I hate I hate Peter Pan
Break a window
Hook
Hook is back
Hook Hook Hook
No more Hook

Doesn't seem right to adjust these as they add general Hook movie sound clip flavor to the game.

Quoted from bobwiley:

4. The reminder call out to shoot the ball if you just let it sit in the lane for your first ball. If you could add like another 4 seconds before it comes on that would be nice.
Its located at \voice00155-female

Done deal.

Quoted from bobwiley:

5.There are a few sound files for music i haven't heard/triggered yet, do you have a printout or anything of the ones being used?

I don't... but if you have specific sounds in mind, I can look them up and see if/where they are triggered in the game.

Quoted from bobwiley:

6. Before the update it seemed the "try again" animation played when the player overshot the skill shot and it get drained down the middle. If that could be reinstated that would be great. I know a lot of new (and old!) players referenced that, and the consensus over here is people like the "try again" showing up whenever the game it reloads the ball in the shooting lane. Figure that way they know "try again" means they missed or the ball timer saved their ball because they suck and need to complete that ball, and "shoot again" animation means they've earned the extra ball.

You sure about this one? The Try Again animation does play when you drain ball within the Ball Save time and it also plays the "Try again" voice call. The "Shoot Again" animation is played when you start your Extra Ball and the "Come back and fight me now" voice call is also played here.

Quoted from bobwiley:

7. Oh, one general comment from us sucky players over here. We all suck at hitting the right scoop to trigger modes like the Skull shot for 20 million. However, we do hit the skull a bit more often, but it doesn't seem to have much for rewards when we hit it during non-mode play. Any ideas to throw us sucky players a bone when we hit would be nice!

Well... it does light up the Right Scoop (assuming it wasn't lit) and it also advances the Bonus Multiplier (or collects 1M if Bonus Multiplier is maxed out). Not sure what else could be added that would be fair and/or make sense.

Quoted from bobwiley:

8. Also, the Pirate ship reward(s) (extra ball or 10 million), is it coded for a specific drop target or any target in the bank? Having an option to have it set easier for any target or hard for the corresponding target would be nice in the settings, if that option isn't there.already.

Doesn't matter which Drop Target you hit. There's no way to indicate a specific Drop Target because there are no corresponding playfield insert lights. I had thought about requiring all Drops Targets to be hit, but really, that's kind of difficult in the time allotted so I scrapped that idea.

Thanks for the suggestions. Always like hearing them. The update I am working on is, overall, minor and will not effect scoring in any way. However, it does add a few nice things... for instance, the Shoot Again lamp will now flash along with the start-of-ball Ball Save. Also, not sure if you noticed but during the Right Scoop award of Croc Clock, there is currently no indicator for where to shoot... now the Croc Time insert (looks like a clock) in front of the Right Ramp will flash.

#1094 10 months ago
Quoted from Crash:

Here are a bunch of tracks I found forever ago using the M1 emulator.

I can confirm that those tracks do not exist like that in the actual game. It sounds like whatever was used to extract those only got a single channel of existing music.

The first one on your sound file is just a single channel of the music played during Bangarang. The second one sounds like just the bass channel from the music that was previously unused but is now played during Croc Time. The third sounds like just the bass from Shoot Clocks music. The forth one is just the bass channel of Pirates. The last one sounds like maybe the bass channel from Multiball Restart.

#1095 10 months ago
Quoted from astyy:

My only minor point of feedback is that I don't think the Rufio ramp should score when you overshoot the skillshot lane (for clocks and combo shot). Tbf it might have done this before but so much was wrong with the game it was difficult to notice.

Are you referring to the start of each ball when you plunge to try to make the 1, 2, or 3 hole but instead you plunge too hard and the ball goes around the Right Ramp and then returns to the Shooter Lane? Then if you plunge hard again, it goes around the Right Ramp but this time it just drops it into the game as a failed Skill Shot? If so... I don't see the Right Ramp scoring anything special in this instance nor do I see it advancing the AM/PM clocks. If you are referring to the 100,000 points granted then that is just what is granted whenever the Skill Shot fails (for whatever reason).

#1100 10 months ago
Quoted from astyy:

It'll be great to see further tweaks to this excellent update. My only minor point of feedback is that I don't think the Rufio ramp should score when you overshoot the skillshot lane (for clocks and combo shot). Tbf it might have done this before but so much was wrong with the game it was difficult to notice.

I think I understand what you mean now... and you are right, this issue has always been there. It is just more noticeable now that the Ball Save timer does not start until the ball is actually put into play (vs. how it used to start right when the ball was sent into the Shooter Lane which meant that if you didn't immediately plunge then you were losing valuable Ball Save time)

Let me summarize what I think you are talking about:

1) you plunge ball into play.
2) ball drains before the Ball Save timer expires (default 10 seconds - reminder, this is now user adjustable)
3) ball is sent back to Shooter Lane
4) you plunge hard to send ball around the Right Ramp which triggers the switch there and spots AM or PM or starts Clock mode.

I think this is the way it will have to be. The problem is that if I prevent the Right Ramp switch from registering in this particular instance, then who is to say it wasn't a legitimate flipper shot to the Right Ramp? I've seen plunges that don't fall into any of the Skill Shot hole and also don't make it around the ramp, and instead they fall onto the playfield and head to the flipper without ever hitting a switch (or they hit the Right Ramp Entrance switch but it doesn't register). If this were to happen, and then the player immediately made a flipper shot to the Right Ramp, it would not register and that would not be good. I also don't want to involve the Right Ramp Entrance switch into the equation because then this switch becomes an integral part of the Right Ramp Exit switch logic... and what if this Entrance switch is not registering correctly and I worry that the Entrance switch might not be as responsive as it is when the ball is shooting up the ramp vs when the ball is falling down the ramp.

Basically, it starts to become too complicated too quickly with the possible different scenarios... and instead I think I have to leave it alone and we have to call this a Pro-Tip for players in the know.

#1103 10 months ago
Quoted from bobwiley:

Hear are the folder locations where I don't know if/where these music files are played. If you could at least let me know if any of these aren't used that would be very helpful!

Well... all the ones you listed play music that is used. But it doesn't necessarily get called by the same number. I don't have complete notes but I do have these:

\music00247-fast_clock_theme (same as 00060) Shooting Upper Left VUK during Shoot Clocks after AM/PM)
\music00248-clock_theme (same as 00048) Skull
\music00249-clock_theme_hook (same as 00050) Fast Scoring & Shoot Ramp Now!
\music00250-fat_theme_clock_hook (same as 00052) Bangarang
\music00251-creepy_theme_2 (same as 00054) Croc Time
\music00252-guitar_theme_clock (same as 00056) Shoot Clocks after AM/PM
\music00253-bass_theme_clock (same as 00058) Pirates

So the game does not reference these music clips by the numbers you provided, instead they are referenced by the numbers I provided.

Quoted from bobwiley:

When you press start for the game,

the file "\voice00168-hook_is_back_2" plays.

and then after about 10 seconds the game will play "\voice00155-female" to remind the player to plunge the ball.

OK, technically speaking... when the ball is ejected into the Shooter Lane, there is currently an approximately 10 second timer that counts down and then the game says "Shoot it". Then the timer is reset to 30 seconds which counts down to again say "Shoot it". The timer is then reset to 30 seconds over and over again with the "Shoot it" happening each time. Are you asking me to extend the 10 second timer or the 30 second timer (or both)? I get the feeling that you are only concerned with the first time it says "Shoot it" in this sequence and you want this 10 seconds delayed to 14 or 15 seconds?

#1104 10 months ago
Quoted from bobwiley:

Hi Score Settings
For those that haven't dug into the settings, if you change Pan's high score threshold to like a million, your machine will then keep the 6 highest scores. You don't have to change Smee, Ace or Tootles score thresholds. Thank goodness too, as you have to go up to 9,999,000,000 to get it to loop down to a low score!

If you hit the toggle switch next to the service switch, it will make the scores go up or down depending on the position of that toggle switch.

#1131 9 months ago
Quoted from bobwiley:

Pirate Town Award. Is it triggered by a specific shot? I know hitting the drop target gets you the award, and when not on tournement mode it randomly appears during ball three. Just curious if something triggers it in particular.

Pirate Town is only ever triggered on the last ball. At the start of the last ball, the game picks a random number between 8 and 80. Once the ball hits that many switches then Pirate Town will start. If you are in tournament mode then that number is always set to 80.

If you get an extra ball on your last ball then Pirate Town can happen again on the new "last ball".

#1147 9 months ago
Quoted from Crash:

Couldn't reproduce the issue, but I did notice a slight flashing glitch while scrolling through the instant info list, possibly related?

Not related to the issue that a couple Pinsiders are having... but still something that bugs me. The timer in Hook isn't very consistent which causes that score flash to happen occasionally during Instant Info. I've slightly adjusted this timer so this should happen less often in v.5.01 (coming soon).

#1153 9 months ago

Does anyone have an extra coil bracket that holds the right slingshot coil? Or know where one can be purchased?

The arcade near me has the Hook I work on but this bracket just broke. It looks like someone tried to fix it long ago and it finally broke again. Could best use a complete replacement.

Here are some pictures. It’s the one on the right.

054AEBB6-D2FB-4161-AEC0-A7074B5A0930 (resized).jpeg
624A33B0-2BB5-4F47-A81F-8E7F08DF3A9D (resized).jpeg
59B46496-F73E-4C03-AA99-C90D2C43B0F0 (resized).jpeg

#1155 9 months ago

I found this at Pinball Life:
https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1034

Can anyone confirm if this is the correct slingshot bracket for Hook?

#1160 9 months ago
Quoted from garretswinning:

I checked and sorry wasn't the right bracket

Thanks for checking.

Looks like this is the one for Hook actually:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/515-5339-00

#1192 9 months ago
Quoted from bobwiley:

Does anyone know how the extra ball light gets lit on the skull?

It's a bit complicated. Ready for this???

Assuming Adjustment 4 (Game Awards) is NOT set to NONE and you are NOT in Tournament Mode...

and if you are on your last ball (usually Ball 3 but this depends on how many Balls you've set your game to have)...

and depending on if the percentage of Extra Balls the game has collected in its history is 20% or less...

then shooting the UNLIT Right Scoop and collecting Mystery Award will also light the Extra Ball insert at the Skull.

#1194 9 months ago
Quoted from bobwiley:

Also, what triggers the restart multiball countdown?

If you drain two of your three balls during multiball without hitting a single Jackpot >>> within 12 seconds of the start of multiball <<< then Multiball Restart will be offered.

This is a bit different than most later Data East games where you are always offered a Multiball Restart if you drain two of your three balls during multiball without hitting a single Jackpot >>>regardless of time<<<.

What do you guys think of this hidden 12 second start-of-multiball timer? Would you prefer that Hook behave just like later Data East games and not have a timer here? Or maybe just make the timer more generous (like 30 seconds)?

#1197 9 months ago
Quoted from bobwiley:

If it was like other DE games, people could just keep restarting multiball until they get a jackpot.

Actually, you only get one chance to Restart Multiball. If you do successfully restart it and then you still don't get a Jackpot on your restart, then your multiball ends regardless.

1 week later
#1246 9 months ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

The ball 1 / scores zero is the big bug that is being addressed. It's the DMD resetting.

Yep. But to clarify that 5.01 will fix the issue demonstrated in post #1053 when hitting the Drop Targets and the game displays garbage on the "Left Ramp Value" screen and sometimes causes the display to restart. Also happens in Instant Info when displaying that same "Left Ramp Value" screen. This does NOT fix a display that resets due to a power issue (no programming can prevent a display from rebooting due to a power issue).

#1256 9 months ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

Question to Chad: I am one of the very few owning a prototype Hook with the spinning disc in the head. The motor was controlled by solenoid 16 (Q23) but with the production firmware, this signal was dropped. In order to enable the motor it was hardwired and turned continiously in the past. As a result, the motor was busted when I bought the machine. Is it possible to enable this motor control again in the firmware? Just turn on when a game is started and off in attract mode (or once in a while in that condition )?

I'm sorry but I cannot add this without having physical access to a game that has this feature. Plus I would want to have the ability to turn this ON/OFF via Adjustments and I am out of free space in the ROM. It sound like you have a pretty nice workaround by triggering it with the flippers.

#1258 9 months ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Are my drop targets mis-adjusted or does it sometimes not give you the pirate ship awards with only 1 drop target?

Quoted from astyy:

Now you mention it I'm sure that happens on mine sometimes.

Quoted from bobwiley:

It happens on occasion with mine. I haven't figured out if its a specific target acting up on mine or what the deal is.

While it is possible that your Drop Target may not fully be physically registering... version 5.01 of the code fixes a bug that would occasionally cause a Drop Target during Pirate Town to not register, so hopefully you guys see an improvement.

#1259 9 months ago
Quoted from Bay78:

Thank you soooo much for doing this. Is it possible to have a setting in 5.01 to allow you to disable you suck multiball but still have the possibility of getting an extra ball? The tournament mode is excellent and I love it. I would probably keep it on there all the time and will definitely use it for tournaments I host. For everyday use I'd love to also have the option of getting an extra ball.

I am pretty sure that even in v.5.00, you can turn on Tournament Mode (Adjustment 39) and then afterwards you can go and set Game Awards (Adjustment 4) to Extra Ball and Limit Extra Balls (Adjustment 6) to 3. Tournament Mode should remain on which will remove the randomness from Pirate Switch Count, Pirate Award, Mystery Award and remove Pity Multiball offering on Ball 3... but Extra Balls should still be offered. Give it a try. I am pretty sure this will work.

#1263 9 months ago
Quoted from bobwiley:

Basically i was hoping to make Pirate Town not random, but 80 switches seems a bit tough too (we all suck over here!). Would be nice if we could see how many switches we've hit as we go along! Although that would just be another kick in the groin to see when you're having a crappy ball!

Tournament Mode in 5.01 will reduce the Pirate Town static switch hit requirement from 80 switches down to to 40 switches. This will let you see this award more often.

#1264 9 months ago
Quoted from Bay78:

Or is it a power issue that is just always present on all Hook's?

Not present in all Hooks. If your display is resetting (outside of the Drop Target or Instant Info known issue with v.5.00 which will be fixed in v.5.01) then it would be a good idea to check the power chain that starts with the power supply and ends at the display. Check the connectors, cables, capacitors, etc for that chain.

1 week later
#1293 8 months ago
Quoted from Bay78:

Also I don’t know if it’s suppose to or not but The is no match at the end of the game during tournament mode. Is that the way it’s supposed to be?

Tournament Mode sets Adjustment 4 (Game Awards) to NONE.

When this is set to NONE, then Match Sequence is not played at all. (Hook has no dedicated adjustment to turn off Match Sequence.)

However, while looking into this I found that if you set Adjustment 4 to EXTRA BALL then it will also not play the Match Sequence ever. I have just set this in v.5.01 so it WILL play Match Sequence if this is your setting.

Also, coming in v.5.01, if you set your Adjustment 4 to EXTRA BALL then the game will now play the Victory mode if you score past the Replay level (in addition to being granted an Extra Ball). Before this Victory mode would only play if your Adjustment 4 was set to Credit.

2 weeks later
#1352 8 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Sorry if this has been covered. Does Chad’s code fix the crock time bug?
Apparently if you build it up to over 100 million it resets. So if you’re up to 105 million, you only get 5 million.

Yep... that bug and many more.. including:

Fixed bug so now Croc Clock is prevented from rolling over from 99 to 0 Million.
Fixed bug so now Fast Scoring is prevented from rolling over from 99 to 0 Million.
Fixed bug so now Bangarang is prevented from rolling over from 99 to 0 Million.
Fixed bug so now Jackpot is prevented from rolling over from 99 to 0 Million.

#1358 8 months ago

Happy to announce that I have released the Hook Version 5.01 patch file.

If you are already running Version 5.00, then you ONLY need to update your CPU ROM. The Display ROM is unchanged and remains Version 5.00 in this new release.

Here is the starting point to get the patch:
http://www.pinballcode.com/

If you are interested in reading about all the changes in Version 5.01, you can go here:
http://www.pinballcode.com/hook501

Hope you enjoy it!

#1372 8 months ago
Quoted from astyy:

Great news of the 5.01 update and I count 22 fixes/improvements at that! Was wondering chadh is Hook your "biggest" patched game to date? It was somewhat of a blank and frayed canvas as a starting point.

Of the games I've worked on, Hook definitely had the most bugs... and the most overall changes. I just wish all the people who historically have a bad opinion about Hook would try out the new code. I think it would change many minds. I'd love to see the new code played with the new Tournament Mode turned on in a major tournament with the best players.

#1381 8 months ago
Quoted from Bay78:

Would you ever consider submitting this wonderful code you made for Hook to Stern and see if they would make it official like they did with the Star Wars code a few years ago?

These patches will remain unofficial.

Quoted from Bay78:

And second question, is Back to the Future on the radar at all to revisit the code from you?

They are all on my radar. But currently inside my radar is DE Star Trek.

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