Okay pinfriends... ya boy Chalkey finally hunkered down and did some troubleshooting / diagnosing of what's going on with the DMD resets and sound issues. I put the 2.08 ROMs back in hook and did my best to get it to get the DMD to reset or have any other problems and I was unable. Rock solid with the glass off hitting all the switches in rapid succession, multiball, etc. Could not get it to have any faults. I put the 5.0 ROMs back in and ended up having the same issues and narrowed it down to this: If I hit 2 of the drop targets at the same time, or in relatively quick succession, it will cause either a DMD corrupted image or reset of the DMD (blank, then displays code version). I could replicate this over and over. Can anyone else who is having the same issues verify that this is what causes the DMD reset on their machine as well? I also entered switch test mode and hit the drops and was unable to get the DMD to restart or show a corrupt image.

There's got to be something really funky going on with this that some people are having issues and some aren't. Maybe one of the people burning the ROMs has a corrupt image or bad batch of chips or something. Maybe a different rev. DMD or something? I can't make sense of it.

MarAlb and V_piscopo who burned your ROMs? I'd be willing to pony up for another set to see if it's a ROM chip or image issue. If you have a second to verify please test hitting all the drops at the same time, you don't need to be in a multiball or anything. I just verified starting the game, not even fully removing the glass and hitting all the drops will cause a DMD reset (

). ChadH if there's any other toubleshooting I can do please let me know. Your code update is awesome and makes this game so much better I really want to be able to use it without these issues.

Can you post a video of this? Make sure the game volume is up and we can see both the drop targets and the display in the same shot. Start with hitting one drop target at a time... then speed it up until you are hitting both and you get the issue.

I don't have a Hook in my house so I cannot test this. I do have access to one at a nearby arcade which I can check out later.

ChadH here you go. I guess sometimes it happens with one. Sometimes it's artifacting, sometimes it's a blank DMD which seems like a reset and sometimes it's a full reset that goes back to displaying the code version.

I will check tonight when I get home. Matt from Matt's basement arcade burned mine. But I've never had an issue like that before with Chad's roms and I play it pretty often.

Excellent video. Nicely captured.

That is certainly acting weird. My gut is telling me there is something wrong with that Display ROM.

The thing is... the CPU ROM will not even boot if corruption is found (it does a simple CRC check at boot up). However, the Data East Display ROMs have no such CRC process so a bad Display ROM will still boot up and play regardless.

Does anyone else get the same (or similar) results? I've never seen this behavior in the game I was coding on.

I will head over to the arcade tonight and bang on that one and see if I can get anything similar.

This is exactly the issue i have

Matt did my ROMs too. Still could possibly be a bad batch of chips, or if he used a different downloaded image for some.

I got my ROMS from two different placed and both have the same issue

The plot thickens.

So if on my game 4.08 code has no problems and 5.0 does it would make you think it's a software issue / memory leak/overrun or something funky. But the fact that some people run the same software with no problems whatsoever makes you think it's a DMD / hardware issue on the non-working machines.

The back of my DMD just says "Data East Dot Matrix Display" and "Cherry Electrical Products 4176-C-[". Anybody got anything different?

I’ll check this too, but it will be a while before I can get to the location. Sounds interesting!

Chalkey, the Instant Info also calls that same LEFT RAMP VALUE display routine. What happens when your Instant Info shows it? Does it do anything odd?

lowndes8, is your issue exactly identical? You only get this issue with hitting your drop targets? I want to make sure we are focusing on the exact same issue and not just a similar issue.

ChadH fantastic observation! Holding the flipper and going through the instant info just blanked out my dmd and caused the ball 1 credits 0 display.

Here is the order of items displayed in Instant Info. (I think some will be skipped if there is no value to display).

Where does yours blank out?

Instant Info
Replay Value
Bonus Value
Left Ramp Value
Clock Value
Fast Scoring
Multiplier
Extra Ball
High Scores

Right after bonus value is displayed (when left ramp value should show). First time I did it this time it played all the way through. I let it continue scrolling and second time it reset.

Sounds like the ramp value number being sent to the display is corrupted and causing the DMD controller to crash and reset. If that’s the case maybe it’s only a specific score being displayed that causes it, which possibly explains why some are seeing the problem and others not.

Someone should boot your ROMs in PinMAME and trigger the instant info to see if it’s maybe display hardware related.

Not exactly the same but i tried a game hittng the targets and they are what is causing the DMD to crash, i played a game by hand with the ball not hitting the targets and the DMD didnt crash

Can you post a similar video to what Chalkey posted? Want to make sure it is identical. It appears that Chalkey's is very consistent with it's failure. Does yours also fail during Instant Info?

There is a known issue where bad power to the DMD (for all Data East games) will also cause the display to reboot. This does not appear to be the issue with Chalkey's game since even the Instant Info (which doesn't have a high power coil type event at the same time) also causes the issue pretty consistently with the Left Ramp Value display event.

I'll be home in about 1 1/2 hrs and I will double check mine (with video) if no one's done it yet. Have to upgrade to color on my dmd for baywatch as well!

Here is what is happening with mine

As i said i can play a game and if i dont hit these targets i dont have any DMD issue.

I'm wondering if you two could try a test... keep the v.5.00 CPU ROM in your game, but put your original Display ROM back into the DMD.

How do the Drops/Instant Info behave with this scenario?

(Note, one thing for sure is the game will not display LEFT RAMP VALUE and will probably show SPECIAL VALUE instead.)

Here's my game running the v5.0 code. Display is original, haven't had any issues with it since I got the game a few months ago with or without the new code. Steph at Hobbyroms burnt them for me in November.

ChadH I'm not sure what you'll be able to read from this but it seems like it skips it.

Drop targets:

Instant info:

I'm not going to be around to do any more testing until Friday but I'm happy to continue guinnea pigging when I get home that morning.

So.... the ramp no longer shuts the sound off but the humming from the speaker is rough. Any ideas on how to stop that

This is running Chad 5.0 roms and displays on my machine.

I cant find my original Hook 4.xx code so wont be able to test but i saw Chalkey works fine.

Weird. So the old Display ROM works fine... meaning it is not corrupting/rebooting the DMD. This is a really odd one. I'd love to know if those newly burned display ROMs are somehow corrupt.

I was just at the local arcade that has Hook and there is absolutely no issues with it. It behaves just like KOAmp's and V-piscopo's. It has original 1991 DMD in there as well.

What if you do a Factory Restore (via Adjustment 46)? Does that make the issue go away?

I have done a reset a few times makes no difference

I "floated" my sound board by replacing the mounting screws on the sound board with nylon (or plastic?) screws separating it from the ground loop. That didn't completely eliminate to "data east hum" but it helped quite a bit. If you search pinside for "data east hum" you should find a bunch of info on this known issue.

It seems like the best fix of all involves installing a separate power supply for the sound board. I think somewhere around $40 for one with the needed 12v and 5v outputs. If you go that route, you will need to get your line voltage (110-120) from your machine somehow. Bill validator, service outlet (re wired to turn off with main switch) or from switch/filter box maybe. I have not done this but have read about it somewhere here.

I've posted about this DMD crash problem for a while. It happens regularly on my machine normally a couple of times per ball and spoils multiplayer games. I can't reproduce it by dropping the targets as above, it seems to happen most during fast activity or multiball. If anything it's happening less since installing the Chad Rom. I think mine is some kind of power problem.

Btw, who likes my new keyring I got for Xmas

20180111_154511 (resized).jpg

If there is anyone here that has the EXACT same issue as shown in Chalkey's (and lowndes8's) video... and also has a ROM burner (or nearby easy access to one) then please contact me. I have a possible code update I'd like to test but I cannot test it on mine since mine does not have the issue.

It needs to be the exact issue that is reproducible on demand as shown in the video.

ChadH, hero to us all, has updated the code and seems to have resolved the resetting display issue. I can't get it to happen manually hitting the drops or with the instant info. He told me he's going to look at making some more changes and put out an official release sometime soon.

Thank you!!! It's donation time next payday.

I'm very happy this worked! A very strange bug because it only affects a small percentage of Hook games. I am going to have lowndes8 also try the fix on his game and assuming it works, we will be golden.

Just want to reiterate that this fixes the issue demonstrated in post #1053 when hitting the Drop Targets and the game displays garbage on the "Left Ramp Value" screen and sometimes causes the display to restart. Also happens in Instant Info when displaying that same "Left Ramp Value" screen. This does NOT fix a display that has a power issue (no programming can prevent a display from rebooting due to a power issue).

Just curious what they actual bug was and the fix? Programmatically.

Need to know if I can repair or replace the skull assy? Thanks for the help.

20180115_073221 (resized).jpg

Just got my hook set up, leveled, and shooting well! Does anybody know of a good place to order the new 5.0 roms? I don't know anybody with a burner, but it sounds like it is a lot better than the roms I'm playing on now.

There is a code bug, I would wait until an official fix is released.

Yep. There is a bug that seems to affect a very small number of Hook games.

However, I have a fix for it... and I am even throwing in a few updates to the game to make it even better from suggestions I received since the 5.00 patch release.

I need to test it though before releasing a new patch.

Anyone out there have a Hook game (running v.5.00) in their possession for quick testing? Also, you need to have a ROM burner and the ability to burn the CPU ROM (27C512). If so, please Private Message me.

Hey Chad!

Love the code! If you happen to be doing an update I have a few requests that maybe you do implement. The first is sound files. There are a few that are shared that would be nice to have be used only by a specific trigger.

1. The first is the windcoaster ramp sound effect. I believe it is shared with the pirate ship drop targets. If we could have the windcoaster have its own sound file that would be great.
Current sound file location for the windcoaster that is shared is \sfx00142-space_2

2. The AM and PM shot with the clocks ticking is great. Would it be possible to use one sound file for AM and another for PM?
Current sound file location is \sfx00129-clock_mechanism for both AM and PM
Perhaps make AM trigger \sfx00129-clock_mechanism
And PM trigger \sfx00128-clock_chimes or \sfx00117-cuckoo

I'm not sure if 000128-clock_chimes or \sfx00117-cuckoo is used for anything else, but it would nice to have the AM and PM sounds different (and unique to only those shots) as its a good audio cue for players that they made the shot. Plus there are some fantastic opportunities for modding sounds.

3. This one is a stretch and wishful thinking but the "I hate, i hate peter pan" clip from the attract mode is also used for gameplay. I seems to be triggered quite frequently. It would be nice if it wasn't used for gameplay.

4. The reminder call out to shoot the ball if you just let it sit in the lane for your first ball. If you could add like another 4 seconds before it comes on that would be nice.
Its located at \voice00155-female

5.There are a few sound files for music i haven't heard/triggered yet, do you have a printout or anything of the ones being used?

6. Before the update it seemed the "try again" animation played when the player overshot the skill shot and it get drained down the middle. If that could be reinstated that would be great. I know a lot of new (and old!) players referenced that, and the consensus over here is people like the "try again" showing up whenever the game it reloads the ball in the shooting lane. Figure that way they know "try again" means they missed or the ball timer saved their ball because they suck and need to complete that ball, and "shoot again" animation means they've earned the extra ball.

7. Oh, one general comment from us sucky players over here. We all suck at hitting the right scoop to trigger modes like the Skull shot for 20 million. However, we do hit the skull a bit more often, but it doesn't seem to have much for rewards when we hit it during non-mode play. Any ideas to throw us sucky players a bone when we hit would be nice!

8. Also, the Pirate ship reward(s) (extra ball or 10 million), is it coded for a specific drop target or any target in the bank? Having an option to have it set easier for any target or hard for the corresponding target would be nice in the settings, if that option isn't there.already.

Thanks again for doing the coding!

AFAIK, any target. While a difficulty adjustment would be nice to bump this up to a specific target (or probably better, to drop all targets) it would mean Chad has to gut an existing adjustment. I’m sure there’s another one almost nobody uses, but whether it’s possible or cost effective time wise is different.

The sound you are referring to plays when the ramp entrance switch is hit on the Left Ramp (a similar but technically different sound is played when hitting the entrance switch for the Right Ramp). I don't see any reference to this sound around the Drop Targets. Are you sure?

First shot to Right Ramp triggers AM animation and sfx00129-clock_mechanism, second shot triggers PM animation and sfx00129-clock_mechanism, then the third shot triggers Shoot Clocks and sfx00128-clock_chimes... and then each shot to the Clocks during this mode triggers the same sfx00128-clock_chimes.

The problem with throwing the cuckoo into the mix is that is used else where in the game.

When the ball rolls over the Left or Right Return lanes, it triggers one of eight sound effects:

Try up the ramp
What great games
I hate I hate I hate Peter Pan
Break a window
Hook
Hook is back
Hook Hook Hook
No more Hook

Doesn't seem right to adjust these as they add general Hook movie sound clip flavor to the game.

Done deal.

I don't... but if you have specific sounds in mind, I can look them up and see if/where they are triggered in the game.

You sure about this one? The Try Again animation does play when you drain ball within the Ball Save time and it also plays the "Try again" voice call. The "Shoot Again" animation is played when you start your Extra Ball and the "Come back and fight me now" voice call is also played here.

Well... it does light up the Right Scoop (assuming it wasn't lit) and it also advances the Bonus Multiplier (or collects 1M if Bonus Multiplier is maxed out). Not sure what else could be added that would be fair and/or make sense.

Doesn't matter which Drop Target you hit. There's no way to indicate a specific Drop Target because there are no corresponding playfield insert lights. I had thought about requiring all Drops Targets to be hit, but really, that's kind of difficult in the time allotted so I scrapped that idea.

Thanks for the suggestions. Always like hearing them. The update I am working on is, overall, minor and will not effect scoring in any way. However, it does add a few nice things... for instance, the Shoot Again lamp will now flash along with the start-of-ball Ball Save. Also, not sure if you noticed but during the Right Scoop award of Croc Clock, there is currently no indicator for where to shoot... now the Croc Time insert (looks like a clock) in front of the Right Ramp will flash.

It'll be great to see further tweaks to this excellent update. My only minor point of feedback is that I don't think the Rufio ramp should score when you overshoot the skillshot lane (for clocks and combo shot). Tbf it might have done this before but so much was wrong with the game it was difficult to notice.

For us poor players I kinda miss racking up the scores on the windcoaster.

All power to your elbow ChadH (as some of us say over here)

Nice, the ball save flasher has been in my mind.

What are the qualifiers for multiball or extra ball on the final skill shot? And are the multiball skill shots random?

Here are a bunch of tracks I found forever ago using the M1 emulator. You must download M1 (and preferably the BridgeM1 graphical interface) or the track numbers I identified won't make sense. The video says you need to install MAME, but you don't. Just need the ROMs zip file from IPDB.

I can confirm that those tracks do not exist like that in the actual game. It sounds like whatever was used to extract those only got a single channel of existing music.

The first one on your sound file is just a single channel of the music played during Bangarang. The second one sounds like just the bass channel from the music that was previously unused but is now played during Croc Time. The third sounds like just the bass from Shoot Clocks music. The forth one is just the bass channel of Pirates. The last one sounds like maybe the bass channel from Multiball Restart.

Are you referring to the start of each ball when you plunge to try to make the 1, 2, or 3 hole but instead you plunge too hard and the ball goes around the Right Ramp and then returns to the Shooter Lane? Then if you plunge hard again, it goes around the Right Ramp but this time it just drops it into the game as a failed Skill Shot? If so... I don't see the Right Ramp scoring anything special in this instance nor do I see it advancing the AM/PM clocks. If you are referring to the 100,000 points granted then that is just what is granted whenever the Skill Shot fails (for whatever reason).

I purchased my hook in an auction. It needs lots of love and repairs. I'm missing plastics and the DMD is dead. I had all the boards serviced and NVRAM installed. I was hoping to buy a color DMD but I'm going to order one from Marco Specialities on Monday. The original owner never replaced rubbers or cleaned the playfield.....

It does the same thing on my game. Over shoot once, and either the diverter sends it back to the shoot lane or if it goes down the playfield and sdtm it will send it to the shooter lane. It will then allow you to overshoot and do the rufii clock for am/pm/shoot the clocks.

Thanks for the feedback Chad. I'll do some double checking on sound files and let you know which ones I can't find.

Hi Chad have done some play testing today and seen as bobwiley says above, it only seems to happen when you re-plunge after a "Try Again" (sdtm) call, diverted return to the shooter lane and "Shoot Again" don't score the rufio/clocks ramp if overshot.

Also whilst testing I had an extra ball award/hole 3 on the shooter lane, if I overshot it diverted back everytime. Never seen this before was nice to see the diverter in action.

No sure why the is this area with holes drilled in it? Can someone please explain?

Screenshot_20180121-122448 (resized).jpg

I think I understand what you mean now... and you are right, this issue has always been there. It is just more noticeable now that the Ball Save timer does not start until the ball is actually put into play (vs. how it used to start right when the ball was sent into the Shooter Lane which meant that if you didn't immediately plunge then you were losing valuable Ball Save time)

Let me summarize what I think you are talking about:

1) you plunge ball into play.
2) ball drains before the Ball Save timer expires (default 10 seconds - reminder, this is now user adjustable)
3) ball is sent back to Shooter Lane
4) you plunge hard to send ball around the Right Ramp which triggers the switch there and spots AM or PM or starts Clock mode.

I think this is the way it will have to be. The problem is that if I prevent the Right Ramp switch from registering in this particular instance, then who is to say it wasn't a legitimate flipper shot to the Right Ramp? I've seen plunges that don't fall into any of the Skill Shot hole and also don't make it around the ramp, and instead they fall onto the playfield and head to the flipper without ever hitting a switch (or they hit the Right Ramp Entrance switch but it doesn't register). If this were to happen, and then the player immediately made a flipper shot to the Right Ramp, it would not register and that would not be good. I also don't want to involve the Right Ramp Entrance switch into the equation because then this switch becomes an integral part of the Right Ramp Exit switch logic... and what if this Entrance switch is not registering correctly and I worry that the Entrance switch might not be as responsive as it is when the ball is shooting up the ramp vs when the ball is falling down the ramp.

Basically, it starts to become too complicated too quickly with the possible different scenarios... and instead I think I have to leave it alone and we have to call this a Pro-Tip for players in the know.