Thunderbirds
Homepin, 2018You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider russdx.
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Quoted from oldskool1969:HOMEPIN threads are better than GAME OF THRONES or any TV drama. I am addicted.
More entertaining and free!The beer n bundy swilling bogan
I find loads of threads on pinside are better then most drama tv shows!
Quoted from benheck:So Mike when are you going to give a attribution for using the AMH audio/video system for your game? (as Creative Commons requires)
It's so blatantly obvious, right down to the out-of-sync issues with the end of ball bonus numbers.
I know I'm just a "dumb litigious American" but my code was good enough to steal, right?
I had no idea your framework was open source, have you got any links?
If this pin does use it, there should definitely be some credits some where!
I dont understand the "runs pc hardware" is not a commercial solution? nearly ALL systems these days are just a big system on chip running linux (ie i'm pretty sure this is what Sterns new system is) Its how every thing is done these days. And if future games are going to use lcd it will HAVE to be done this way!
If you want fancy lcd video it is your only option really unless you have a secondary video controller. But you may as well stick the whole thing on it!
Running linux gives you so many options its crazy not to go down that route these days.
Also not offering sd/usb upgrades is suicide that literally is going back to the 80s (swapping chips) I think most games should be able to do OTA upgrades these days via ethernet as well as the standard usb stick option. But having to swap out a physical chip is crazy this would annoy the crap out of me!
Oh so you need to swap a whole board to get new firmware? I assume you return the old one?
Crazy way of updating literally from1970s!
Its 2017 now, needs to be usb,sd,wifi,bluetooth
Hopefully there is an usb socket on there some where connected to the pic chip so future updates can be done over usb once the functionality is figured out.
No one will be upgrading the firmware if its a complete board swap. Is it a little daughter board swap? Or literally the whole controller board?
Id be more worried about the hardware / firmware is technically illegal? If found to be a direct copy of Bens open source project as its breaking his license.
Quoted from benheck:A few years back Chuck got wind of someone (not Mike) trying to build an AMH from scratch (like when NBA Fastbreak gets turned into MM) so we took down all source code and started to only provide HEX for updates (pre-compiled)
I wrote the auto-update code after we went closed-source (for RZ) So the auto-updating trick has never been publicly available, which is why Mike's boards can't update themselves via SD.
Swapping out "boards", the best way to do that would be a MCU module like this but would be very expensive:
http://www.microchip.com/DevelopmentTools/ProductDetails.aspx?PartNO=MA330030
Shipping stuff (like replacement boards) out of China is cheap thanks to this loophole:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/09/12/the-postal-service-is-losing-millions-a-year-to-help-you-buy-cheap-stuff-from-china/?utm_term=.cd29de4a4dfa
But customers sending boards back would be a nightmare.
Also, here's the Iron Man "Icing Problem?" moment! There's a bug in the AMH SD handling routine that can cause the display to lock up, and we fixed it AFTER we went closed source. Oops!
If you was going to go down the daughter board route you could just create your own tiny pcb with just the PIC on it and a header with only the pins that are actually needed for coms(i assume only a few) plus vcc and gnd
Still a very bad solution to solve a very simple problem!
My money is on that is the final hardware or very close and is the final software or very close.
Why would you ever build a system like that for testing just to completely start again for production (you wouldn't)
Be very interesting to see what the official answer is.
What is the hardware in planes? Like all avionic certified FPGA's or something? Like you get special automotive certified components for cars.
Knowing every machine sold is using your hardware/ software without permission would seriously piss me off I can certainly see where Ben is coming from.
Hopefully they come to an agreement.
If going down the node board route (which im a great fan of when implemented correctly) hopefully will not make same mistakes as stern!
Also be interesting to see how much of Bens Kernel is left in it?
Sounds like the new hardware is basically splitting off the lamp/solenoid/led drivers onto separate node boards separated via canbus network but will it still run the propeller processor and BenHeck core?
And hopefully for the sake of all buyers it has USB firmware updates! Lol
Some sort if offical credit to BenHeck is also needed as his system WAS used for R&D/Prototype and most likely still integrated into the new system.
Quoted from jabdoa:What mistakes did Stern make in your opinion?
As a side note: Spike is RS485 not CAN.
Not just my opinion but of many others as well.
The mistake was instead of having a few generic node boards they made loads of custom boards! (and custom boards between different series of the same machine) Ie special led node boards (custom to that one machine) or custom node board for this and that.
Down side is if one led goes on this node board you pretty much have to replace the whole thing unless you have smd experience and tools to repair! Other down side is you dont make as many custom boards so prices are far higher! (for replacements)
IN MY OPINION
Just have a few generic boards that ALL machines use, this way they are extremely cheap and people can replace lamps easily(ie lamp is separate and is wired to the node board, far easier to track faults, your not always spending money designing/prototyping/testing/manufacturing custom node boards all the time. Just have a nice off the shelf selection to choose from when building a machine.
Much like the fast/proc systems.
Quoted from o-din:[edited]. You should have considered securing the code in the first place.
What a horrible way to view the world.
USB DFU can be added to most usb enabled PIC chips i assume this is a pic32? Basically just need a USB connector and 2 resistors but would need some special firmware / boot loader to enable the DFU via USB. But hardware wise its as easy as just adding the above mentioned parts. But i appreciated quite a bit of development would be needed in the software to support such a feature!(with all the correct error handling so you don't brick your game!) (maybe next revision?)
Had a quick play at uk pinFest (could not hear any audio due to background noise which is a shame as i'm sure that's a big part of the game) Did not look up at the DMD much so cant comment on that but the game certainly felt fun for the few min i played.
Quoted from Drenden:Wait... did I read that in order to upgrade the software you need to mail chips back to China?????? Even if you didn’t have to mail them back and needed a rom burner, that’s just flat out unacceptable. This isn’t 1997. You don’t buy a vehicle with a tape deck. I guess that’s what happens when you have a creator who has a “get off my lawn” attitude about technology.
Orange DMD’s
ROM chips
Do the coin slots take doubloons and can the bill acceptor read social security checks?
Pretty sure it was return to a local distributor not china. I Don't think its rom chips but the actual microcontroller it self (code stored in flash)
All microcontrollers these days support DFU via sd card/usb so is rather weird they went down the send whole chip back vs just adding a usb connector to the pcb and writting some dfu firmware. (user just plugs in a usb stick with a firmware file)
cant be cost cutting as adding a 50p usb connector is cheaper then building a special daughter board.
Quoted from Homepin:The current small batch of machines is nearing completion. It takes a LOT longer to assemble a machine than we ever envisioned and we are looking at every possible way of getting them built in a 'more timely' fashion. We are just not able to make 50 machines a month at the moment but we are working on it.
'Todays problem' (TM) was discovered when we went to fit the coin doors to this current batch. The supplier has changed the coin slot spacing! It might have been handy if they told us about this as we have already made about 100 coin boxes and now the coin holes in them are in the wrong place.........this equals more delays and additional costs and expenses caused by delayed product. It also pushes out the time frame for starting the next batch.
Everyone wants their machine NOW but sadly we can only build and deliver them as fast as we can. I won't be drawn nor will I comment further on deliveries for individual machines. I have covered most delivery questions in my recent posts. I am going to devote my time 100% to running the factory and I will no longer involve myself in discussion of sales, gameplay or anything else as these areas are being handled by others and I am not going to be at cross purposes with anyone else.
As far as I am concerned, this thread will be for updating our progress and our builds and sharing some problems that we strike along the way. That is what I will be sticking to from now on. If someone has a question on building machines, mechanisms, PCBs or anything else factory related I will do my best to answer it.
Please refer purchase, delivery and service enquiries to our dealer in your area for the fastest most efficient response.
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if they was contracted to build a part to a detailed schematic / drawing but delivered a product not matching this cant you ask them to take them back and fix the issue?
sounds like they made the mistake so should fix it at there expensive not yours!
Quoted from benheck:Hey it's the same high score entry screen as AMH!
So they stole our boards AND code. Wankers.
its china would you expect anything less? 
Quoted from TreyBo69:Also Mike has shown how unreliable and low quality a lot of stuff from his Chinese vendors have been as part of his "transparency" with dealing with the local parts manufacturers and getting them up to speed. He really is his own worst enemy.
This happens in almost every industry that orders parts from china! (they just keep quite about it)
iv had similar issues with china just suddenly changing a component for no reason and not telling you!!! it is extremely annoying
From what was mentioned earlier its just single channel audio? (basic mp3 trigger board) or can it do multi channel? background track + sound effects would be much nicer and make it a much more polished / professional product.
Could this game be saved with new software? / lcd display? or is it the actual layout is severely flawed as well? Maybe some one can create a bolt on kit like a raspberry pi running the mission pinball framework with completely new rules / audio with a lcd screen you add on (like installing a colorDMD) and then you would create some sort of hardware bridge to drive the actual hardware via the current driver board. So basically the game does not boot using its own firmware but uses the new raspberry pi controller.
Can it be saved? Whats letting it down so bad?
Quoted from vicjw66:Ya can’t polish a turd.
you can sprinkle it with glitter though 
Quoted from lucky1:AFAIK the controller board is a copy of Bens https://github.com/LonghornEngineer/Pinheck_Pinball_System which is used in AMH and therefore it should be possible to programm your own ruleset etc.
Indeed, I suggested using raspberry pi / lcd so you could add all the lcd assets which appeared to be a big complaint from most people plus most people would probably prefer working with the mission framework then a custom one with probably less features.
Was only a idea, you could sell as an upgrade kit.
Quoted from pipes:I only ask because I owned one and think it's the worst game ever made. There's nothing worth salvaging from that mess. The playfield layout is trash so the gameplay obviously sucks. You can throw that playfield in a JJP cab and add all the bling you want but that game will never be fun. Ever.
lol man how is it so bad!
Everyone makes mistakes!
Let's see if homepin learned from previous ones and improves on this game!
So
- get a real designer!
- use proper buttons (or copy correctly)
- metal lock down bar!
- lcd screen
- thicker side rails?
Not sure what else was wrong with it, just is just from following this thread / what others have mentioned.
Quoted from swinks:be able to update the software yourself
Ah yes, add usb connector with DFU
Quoted from jardine:Or.....have a conversation helping along the way then just disappear into thin air leaving someone waiting for a response of promised help never to be seen again.....hahaha.....classic Doug!!
Love you no matter what.
All my pcba jobs are delayed by 4 weeks around this time and of year every year, they definitely shut down for a while 
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