No SMT in the Pinheck board and I thought there was to be none in the HP stuff??
China is the home of reverse engineering.. its the old adage " same same but different".
But to ask for permission to use something, not obtain that permission but then go ahead regardless and copy it anyway is a pretty low act in anyone's book
Quoted from russdx:
My money is on that is the final hardware or very close and is the final software or very close.
Why would you ever build a system like that for testing just to completely start again for production (you wouldn't)
Be very interesting to see what the official answer is.
My money is with yours. Mike has been emphasizing that it is a PROTOTYPE ( uppercase = emphasis) on another forum but there is no point displaying a machine like this unless the finish was very close. It has also been stated that the game is 99% completed and if we are to believe what we are told ( LOL) then what you see is pretty much what you get.
The boards used for the two displayed prototypes isn't the board set that will go into production. He may well have ripped off another design to get something off the ground but how close that is to the finished product is something only time will tell.
Anyway, this is China and your government and ours have allowed a situation to occur where the Chinese can copy what they like and then on sell it. Any copyright or protection you may have in place is null and void to a Chinese company and there isn't a damn thing you can legally do about it.
After all.. you wouldn't be enjoying low cost LED were it not for the Chinese.. no one wanted to buy the rock solid German ones due to cost.. but the Chinese copies?.. You all fell over yourselves to snap them up.
Is it unethical?.. of course. But is it illegal in China?.. nope, its called business. Add the fact that it is illegal to send faulty goods to China and you have a situation where a Chinese company can do pretty much anything and make anything they like.. hell! It doesn't even need to work!
Any warranty for Chinese goods falls directly on the distributors... not the manufacturer.
Quoted from wiredoug:
thats the point so many dont get .. hes NOT a salesman. He doesnt want to 'represent' anything.
He just wants to go make pinball machines in peace and the international court of pintards wont let him.
Noone is stopping him making pinball machines.. he has done that. Along the way though he has been very abrasive to many people and stamped his personality all over it. Its been a journey of endless spin, BS and plagiarism. The pictures of the "secret" boards were removed from another forum but not before they were posted here where he cant remove them. His lack of integrity laid bare for all to witness. If you are trying to paint Mike as the victim here, try again. In his own words, he doesn't give a f**k and I honestly believe that to be true.. he really doesn't give a f**k about anyone... but there again is that abrasive personality shining through like a beacon.
Quoted from o-din:
I know this isn't supposed to be a popularity contest, but given the choice, I'd rather sit down and have a beer with Mike than the guy that's been doing all the complaining.
Nah.. once you turned your back he would combine your beer with his because it makes his beer better then tell you to go and get f**ked
Quoted from wiredoug:
i love how no one has a problem with the leap from "some users on pinside" to "the whole of America"
if you want to follow along with the progress hes got a facebook page
if you want to toast marshmallows and pat each other on the back for 'winning'.. well done this seems to be the place.
They are not referring to what was said on the Homepin official thread. The comments referred to are what Mike said on here before he set up this thread. The same sentiments were put on his own website. All were later modified or taken down by Mike but not before it had been seen and noted.
All was forgiven by many for a while and this thread ran quite smoothly. But the latest tirade has opened old wounds and his own words show a great disrespect for potential customers both now and in the future.
The book Mike should have read and been (obviously) heavily influenced by should have been:
How not to cut your nose off to spite your face..
Biting the hand that feeds you is a dumb act..
How to show grace when the chips are down.
I believe all 3 are written by,
Ibe. A. F. Ing. Idiot.
Im sure someone will have it archived Doug and will post it accordingly. From memory, it was hating all Americans
Quoted from PinSinner:
Because some of us who live in the great land down under, know the man by nature of our associations. You can only make judgements based on words on a page. We on the other hand have broken bread with the man, shared a drink, held a face to face conversation. I think that due to our dealings in person with the man, we understand his idiosyncrasies and can better understand him as a person, rather than him as text on a screen.
Yep.. and as a person he has no problems telling someone to " go F**" themselves and as a person he has no qualms displaying his personality on the screen for the world to read... as a person he has no issues telling everyone on here that he doesn't give a F**k when he gets caught plagiarising someone elses design DESPITE being expressly told not to use it. He's even off AA because he could no longer weasel out of the backlash his actions have caused.
Idiosyncrasies are such cute personality traits aren't they?
It was suggested a few years back that he really shouldn't be doing his own PR work as he is his own worst enemy where that is concerned. At least now he is off the forums, this will all settle down and the machine(s) when they start coming out will do all the talking required.
But to paint him as some poor misunderstood soul is laughable.
Quoted from PinSinner:
This from Homepin Facebook for those that are still interested in the production of TAG:
Another thing that we learned from Pinfest, after one machine had 600 plays, was the flipper coils were overheating. This was traced to the software not being able to process the EOS switch action fast enough on every flip. We had originally intended to fit a flipper control board but decided that it wasn't required.
Now we have fitted that board to each flipper they are autonomous and the coil overheating problem has completely disappeared. (this picture shows our prototype board fitted NOT the finished board - we will now assemble up some final boards for production and modify the wiring harness accordingly).
Thought the figures were 596 games over both machines..
Quoted from swinks:
Apparently the playfield is a Whitewood with inserts (and probably water base cleared) and then a 1-1.5mm polycarbonate like material with the underside printed with the playfield design
Would be interested to know how it looks after a 1000 plays, the polycarbonate might become a useable item
Does it just sit there or is it glued down? Placing 2 sheets on top of each other so they sit loosely often leads to "sweating" between the layers... its a no no in the sign trade
Quoted from Micky:
Have you got a machine on order or are you just another pathetic excuse trying to cause trouble by putting in his useless 2 cents?
The post has merit so not sure why you would attack Gamesmart and if the counter attack ( yawn) is:
"If you haven't got money in this, you shouldn't voice an opinion", then get your buddy Mike to privately email those still financially in this farce , no reason at all to post on any forum if only those with a ,(QUOTE "vested interest" need bother. After all, this system was good enough for deposits and full $$ amount up front
Not sure anyone still believes there are any licencing issues at all, its more than likely just a line to pull out when you need to buy some time and deflect attention.
He had a machine and it was made public at Pinfest so no licencing issues there because if previous rhetoric is to be believed then it had a full tick of approval by ITV and I believe at least 1 machine was sited in a bar somewhere in China(?).. so again, no licencing issues there.
The post by Gamesmart is simply a polite and sarcastic way of saying, if you can smell bullshit, then it is bullshit
CE compliance is only for Europe and has no relevance anywhere else... it's an abbreviation of "Conformité Européene" ( European Conformity).
In Australia, minimum requirements are SAA approval and C Tick emissions... possibly ISO9XXXX etc.
It is the responsibility of the importer to ensure relevant certification is in place... if not, they are obliged to obtain it themselves at their own cost.
If these are not obtained by the factory themselves and are made freely obtainable then the importer is put in a very difficult situation indeed.
Paint runs on the inside cabinet.. someone needs to "brush" up on their spraying technique
Just seemed to be a good first effort - perfect no - but neither is Stern, JJP, Spooky, etc. Think split cabinets on brand new sterns when people critique paint runs etc.
Its a display machine.. sent out to show the world what the company is capable of..its there for people to play and look over so they can judge for themselves.
Only the best should be sent out for this and so we can only assume that this is the best.
Quoted from wiredoug:
i talked to mike about this and it was an interesting insight into how things work in china. The painter was ( obviously) a new inexperienced guy not a professional paint man.
If they hired a professional to be a 'painter' in china he would refuse to do anything else. They would basically have to pay him to sit and smoke until the next painting task was ready. Its not just painters, a "driver" for example will only drive.. you cant even get him to sweep the floor. Just read the paper until its time to drive somewhere.
Imagine trying that on here? then again with our unions it might just work
Obviously they know they have to do better work on the shipping machines than they did when they rushed out a show sample to get it shipped in time.
You're right that paint isnt good enough. It looks like i did it lol ..im kinda amused someone paints as badly as i do
Yep.. less is more in these instances. We've all done it, as after all, spraying is quite enjoyable ( well I tend to like it anyway) and because of that, you tend to put too much on at once...or.. feel obliged to run the gun empty. You can see that its where the paint pooled in the flipper button hole and dribbled out. Not a biggy but shouldn't have passed any inspection IMO
These quotes from Mike in 2013 will allay any regrets Pete'''
I opened the website for sales at about 9.30 this morning and I must say I have been overwhelmed with the positive response and the purchases made. Thank you all for having the faith in my ability to deliver. I said the website would be updated on the 18th and I stuck to it. I also want to have a prototype at next years Pinfest and I intend to do my very best to meet this timeframe. A condition of my licence is very strict in that I MUST meet a mid 2015 deadline because the licensor has a massive campaign for the 50th anniversary of Thunderbirds and this pinball is part of that.
The only thing I am able to reveal at this point is that I have secured one of the smartest programmers on the planet - this guy blows all of the other pinball programmers away and I am not saying that lightly nor am I saying it to take away anything from the excellent guys out there - it's just that this guy is by far and away so far ahead of them all it is simply amazing!
More about it when I am able to......
Then this post from Dec 2013 would have you believe its just the artwork to be settled ready for the 2015 release..
If I were to show anything it would NOT have any artwork. It would have flippers, bumpers, ramps and kickers - big deal, just like practically every other pinball machine ever made.
No wonder you have run out of patience..
Large percentage of jobs in Australia now are on a casual basis. The company rings you when they need you and they pay the hours worked only... no promise of work tomorrow or next week. It means you can be laid off anytime the company wants and completely bypasses the union enforced Fair Work Commission.
Mikes Chinese workers probably have better job security than an Australian equivalent.
Chinese labour is still cheaper than Australian though, but we do have better HVLP sprayers
Quoted from swinks:
yes Mike did say it was cheaper to build in China than Aus.
The arguement might still be they are cheaper there than here in Aus etc but there is also value in having skilled staff doing work in regards to designing presses for making pressed parts and not re-jigging and working hard at it for years trying to get it right (legs, lockdown bar etc). Plus if it had been done in Aus there would of been a number of Aussies keen to work and when passion is applied the results would generally be higher.
Mike once told me that PPS had put a blanket ban on him due to his after market boards etc. It became impossible for him to purchase parts like the other manufacturers do.
Any venture into manufacturing machines meant he had to tool them all himself, which of course, he has done.
Quoted from Slash:
Personally I have never liked the branding selected. The name "Homepin" and the logo look really budget and hokey/corny to me.
Minor issue though, if the game looks and plays good is all that really matters.
The homepin logo on the cabinet looks awful I must admit.. far too large and detracts from the artwork
Pre order customers are pissed ( and rightly so) because early on promises were made.
ONE being that the games MUST be finished in 2015 as it was a prerequisite of the Thunderbirds licence. This was emphasized heavily by Mike himself
SECOND being the quote above by Toads... pre order customers will get theirs before ANY OTHERS ARE SOLD no matter where in the world.
The above are direct quotes and guarantees given to those who put faith in the man and his words.
The only possible explanation to the above is that the machines in the container heading to Canada are FREE!!!!
Quoted from Toads:
Now that homepin has abandoned us and now shipping to Australia is going to be via distributor what you need to do Pete is sell your pin to Highway for your buy price of $5432 and buy one of there's comming in for $6999 inc GST.
As Highway above have stated the importing cost is not cheap, so if you add the GST you have to pay plus the importing cost it might even work out cheaper to purchase via Highway than what you paid 4 odd years ago.
If this works out to be a better option then the kick in the teeth you guys have already received now has a steel toe cap.
Unbelievable ( actually, not really, unfortunately its just another chapter of the same story)
"I am doing everything possible to help the (very few) pre-buyers. They inputted about $50K and I put in 5 years of my life and $3M - I think I have the bigger share of say!"
What a bizarre statement to make.
Quoted from Homepin:
Don't like me, fine, go and try doing it yourself or just keep buying Stern. Problem solved BUT get off my back when you have no connection to me or my business.
Way you go - downvote this post - see if I give a F..................
Not many people likely to have any connection to you or your business after this debacle. You constantly move the goal posts with everyone.
Ok.. so you have total disdain for the preorder customers.. that's screamingly obvious and its also obvious that your word counts for nothing.
Given the above.. how does the promise of warranty pan out? Is it the same as the Lowboys you sold where spare parts are expected to come from other machines supplied so the distributor can sell a working one?
My take on the TBAG machine is that the distributors are liable for all warranty issues and you will provide spare parts.. the same promise made with the Lowboys.. there is no back to factory due to Chinese law yes?
Anyone and that means ANYONE dealing with yourself is a fool.. you yourself have proven this over and over again.
Good luck to the distributors because if you are wise, you know the road ahead already
How convenient!! 5 days ago, you could have had it air freighted straight away, but now they are inaccessible?
"Peter, your machine was built at the same time as every other "fully finished" machine in our initial run. It is sitting in my storage lockup, finished, tested and packed. I don't recall the build serial number but it's about #46 from memory (don't hold me to that number, it's my recollection without checking and I am currently at home without the means to look it up)?"
The cynical amongst us would cry BS and interpret the latest news as " not yet made"... thank goodness none of us are in the slightest way " cynical"
What a web of deceit this has become.. just when you thought things couldn't possibly get worse!
Quoted from Homepin:
In fact, it would have gone a week or so ago but your constant bickering and backpedaling caused us to cancel the transport of your machine to Highway Games Guangzhou for on-shipping to you.
That's not shipping.. that's transferring to another premises so its not sitting in your factory, and if this is true, then the decision NOT to move the machine was made by yourselves... No one else
Quoted from Homepin:
The Canadian shipment was delivered to Nitro Pinball yesterday.
PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY..............Nitro Pinball Canada ARE a pre-order buyer EXACTLY the same as every other pre-order buyer (including the ones complaining about the freight costs in this thread and other places).
BUT there is one main difference...............they have paid ALL costs including delivery UNLIKE some other pre-order buyers who seem intent on complaining loudly to try and force me to ship them for free !!!!!
THIS IS WHY THE NITRO SHIPMENT WAS DELIVERED FIRST!!!!!!!!
But after the time the Australian pre order guys had handed over their money you were publicly stating that you would NOT sell to USA or Canada.. its all archived in this forum as well as the Aussie Pinball Forum. It was quite a public statement made at the time and yet despite this public statement, a deal must have been done with Nitro at the very same time for your words to have any ring of truth to them.
Please excuse us if we find this scenario somewhat confusing.
Games are ready.. choose your shipping or shut up statement is concurrent with present day.
Highway don't have your games or know when they will have them to ship.
Again, excuse us for finding this confusing.
We would all love to see an end to this public fiasco.. it really isn't good reading. But someone, either pre order guys or Homepin, is not presenting the real facts.
It will all come out in the end.. it always does. The only question is just how much damage will be done in the process. As it stands right now, its a hell of a lot because the huge amount of support shown to this venture right at the start is long gone.
Wonder why that would be?
January and sea freight it is then id say.
It is what it is Pete at this stage. $390 to ship via sea is a good price. If you have to wait till the new year then so be it.
I know you want it earlier and are fed up with the constant delays, that's perfectly understandable. But at least you now have a definite time frame and out of pocket expenses.
Ideal?.. No... but it is a resolution after all.
Quoted from railways:
Yep mate, I feel your frustration. I think I was the 1st one in the world to fully pay for a TAG at pinfest and you paid the next day. I was granted serial number #002 for being an avid homepin/aussie supporter way back when.
My "game" was finished in box months ago like Pete's. Mike said to me years ago "Whats in a number? " Sure you'll get a game (sometime) with your number on it but that doesn't mean it was the 2nd one off the line. MIL was #005, I was #002.
Now seriously, we haven't got our game's that we paid for over 5 years ago.
as MIL has said, NONE OF US HERE IN OZ HAVE RECIEVED ANY INVOICE FOR SHIPPING TO PAY ON - EVER. JUST SHIPPING OPTIONS. As far as I'm aware the guys on Aussie arcade that I know of ticked that box and replied a long time ago.
I'm so over it I've had my #0002 on consignment through Highway since early October considering It's supposed to be a finished game in box sitting there waiting for my shipping details - di that back in I think April this year as next container load.
I apologise if I sound cranky but my backstory with Mike goes back to the beginning of our version of Pinfest here and the support I gave him for years including test trialling products that is now main stream.
Rant over - small weight off shoulders, Thanks.
Go back to the beginning and full support for this venture was right across the Australian pinball community. A lot has been done in 5 years to completely destroy that.
Just to be clear for all involved in this.. when you say " additional 12 months warranty"... is this in addition to the 12 months warranty that is Australian law, so 24 months?
Or.. is this a rewording of what is the minimum requirement for products sold in Australia?
Flipper buttons don't feel right..really?
In my collection I can go from reverse flippers to 2" flippers to 3" flippers. none of which feel "right" after playing the previous set up. then there are metal buttons.. plastic buttons etc.. all feel different and are particular to that era.
My point being that we accept unconditionally what has already been produced but not whats new...why?
Quoted from Ballypinball:
The ones who Threaten Don't Sue
If he emails a threatening email, file a restraining order against him, easy at any Police Station, he will be served, or when he enters Australia will be detained.
Here is wishing he threatens me.
Very true... after all, you never ended up suing me
"Anyone putting shit on the machine (and there are lots here) - show us what you have built...
PR 0/10 quality 9/10 art 7/10 game 3/10"
You don't have to have built a pinball to be critical of one.. after all, its not a necessary criteria in order to praise one so why the double standards?
If Mike wants to be the Recel of the modern day then that's his own undoing..
Quoted from fridgejam:
I have been told by a source close to Homepin that they are working on a code update for the game. No idea when it will be released, but I believe it is coming.
Did Mike ask you to post this? He has a habit of asking people to post things in his favour.
But no, seriously... do you really think that ANYONE gives any relevance at all to any statements or rumours that emanate from the Homepin factory?
To "believe" is how this whole fiasco came about in the first place.... I think you truly are an island.
Would be about correct and means machine runs at just under 200W no matter the country
Quoted from RA77:
That 200W ( if true ) is very low power consumption for a pinball.
I am impressed
Anyone done power consumption sums on W/B, JJP and Stern ?
I guess W/B with incandesants would be the most hungry.
I believe power consumption to be an important factor in design/manufacture and guess Mike considered this as well.
Perhaps an interesting topic for another thread.
I have no idea if that is the power consumption of the game. Im just trying to make sense of what is written on the plate because as it stands, its complete nonsense.
Quoted from swinks:
100% agree, and said it years ago - suggesting building a working TB with Bally / Williams parts in the 1st year in China to debug and get the rules fleshed out 3-4 years ago but even better like you suggested should of developed a homebrew back in Aus, and have many of the parts designed ready for manufacturing here in Aus and then just go into production there.
he could of got alot of support / help here in Aus, but the rest is history
Remember the SECRET room at Pinfest???
Ha ha ha ha!!!!
It allowed him to display what little progress there was while surrounding himself with "YES" men.
Only those who had a financial interest in the game were permitted to see and discuss anything he came up with... a nice little secret boys club..
Words like SECRET and EXCLUSIVE were bandied around and worn like badges of honour to those who were willing to turn off independent thought and blindly follow HOMEPIN the GREAT!!!!
And then what did he do???..Oh yeh...treated them with utter contempt by not delivering their games..
Nothing wrong with the game itself.. concept is a really good one and goes down well especially in a pub environment. I think its a good business move by Homepin.
But... ( yeh there's always a but..) im 100% certain that it would sell better with a more dynamic sound to it... some heartbeats increasing as you climb up the game maybe... anything but what's in it now..
The early 80's sound just lacks in 2019
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