(Topic ID: 172723)

Homepin OFFICIAL Thread - Pinball Parts & Machine Progress

By Homepin

2 years ago

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  • Latest reply 22 minutes ago by blue95
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Topic index (key posts)

33 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #29 Images of flipper coils being assembled in the Homepin factory. Posted by Homepin (2 years ago)

Post #31 Images of prototype Thunderbirds mechs. Posted by Homepin (2 years ago)

Post #46 MPU Testing: Image and Video Posted by Homepin (2 years ago)

Post #47 Pinball Cab CNC Tests: Images and Video Posted by Homepin (2 years ago)

Post #61 Fliipper Coil pictorial Posted by Homepin (2 years ago)

Post #122 Delivery trucks being loaded in China Posted by Homepin (2 years ago)

Post #130 Factory tour video Posted by Homepin (2 years ago)

Post #131 Flipper links & other assembly parts Posted by Homepin (2 years ago)

Post #142 The plastic used for flipper links Posted by Homepin (2 years ago)

Post #153 Flipper buttons Posted by Homepin (2 years ago)

Post #162 Coin door Posted by Homepin (2 years ago)

Post #188 Power supply Posted by Homepin (2 years ago)

Post #196 Rubbers Posted by Homepin (2 years ago)

Post #607 Final Artwork approved and being applied in test sizes Posted by Homepin (1 year ago)

Post #1020 Thunderbirds official flyer Posted by musketd (1 year ago)

Post #1103 Thunderbirds: First look under the playfield Posted by solarvalue (1 year ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#1218 1 year ago
Quoted from AbeVigoda:

Would you still buy a pinball machine from them?
I dunno Mike from Moses, and I tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn't hang out with him if he's dropping N-bombs, just like you're not hanging out with the sensitive nerd. Doesn't sound like that'd bother him.
He's in public forums, posting with his company logo, saying things that are gonna alienate some segment of his addressable market. Not a smart business move. Pinball could use a larger fan base, and it'd be great if maybe he'd keep that kind of thing between him and his mates at the bar.

and probably the only reason anyone knows anything about it is because some guy talked about it on his ego-cast.. and the only reason he knows about it is because the site is the only one he hasn't been banned from yet.

#1357 1 year ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Bottom line, this forum provides a perfect platform to discuss any issue. Open mic and you control the output. This Mike guy is saying it’s blown out of proportion. So instead of hurling insults and calling people idiots, he can quite simply post quotes of what he said and explain why they are being misinterpreted. It’s really that simple. If it’s truly not that bad, and a total mixup, this is a no-brainer path to clearing up the problem.

No matter what you say... someone will take a slice and twist it how they want and it just keeps snowballing. "selective reading" can't be combated when dealing with emotional topics online. People see what they want and latch onto it.

#1358 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Read for yourself. I don't know why it's such a big secret here to discuss the specifics.

My guess is because this a thread about their game... If you want to talk about that, probably another thread is more appropriate?

Kind of like having a ghostbusters thread bogged down in JT debate.

2 weeks later
#1756 1 year ago

how expected... "this isn't the real stuff of course..." "critical, I'll take my ball and go home"

Not shockingly... absent from Mike's quotation of Ben's past posts is an observance of DATES. Quoting Ben's posts from 2014... and conveniently omitting that his (Mike's) actions are from at least June 2016. Of significance is that as of Feb 2016... The pinheck code was covered by a new license. One that disallows commercial use. Even the original code was covered by a 'sharealike' license which at the minimum requires sharing at the same level as the original.

So Mike admits he's using the system... has modified it... and incorrectly points to Ben Heck posts to try to justify his behavior, all while failing to recognize it just hangs himself.

Well... Let the 'China copies' mantra continue...

#1782 1 year ago
Quoted from jokerpoker:

I’m confused. Ben says he stole it and knows his code backwards as only he would. Fair enough.
But Mike quotes Bens posts saying it’s ok to copy and pretty much do as you like with it. So not stolen. Permission given from what I read. Am I missing something.

Yes you are missing something. See https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/homepin-official-thread-pinball-parts-machine-progress/page/36#post-4029890

#1802 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Mike sure lost a lot of my respect today because of the fact he did use Ben's PinHeck system without permission, and then threw a tantrum when he was caught and called out for it.

Well to be clear - he didn't necessarily need permission... depending on what iteration of the code he is using. Ben's decline of helping HomePin as a contributor doesn't mean Homepin couldn't use the early pinheck code. But no matter what version of the code he is using, he's violating the shareAlike license (since the code was covered by that at first) by failing to attribute to the source and sharing back. Now, the real detailed guy would say "well this was just a showing of a prototype, its not done yet" so you can say those things are simply 'yet to come'. It's not like they would have to be handing out CDs with code at a pinball show to meet the requirements, or that possibly documentation/credit aren't done. But Mike's response makes it pretty clear how he feels about the whole thing and that he felt he was immune anyway from those requirements. And of course, if he's using the later pinheck code... all bets are off as that is covered by a more restrictive license which bars commercial use.

Permission or not... Homepin is in the wrong here. And Mike's response is deflect and pivot...

I hope Mike's pockets keep going deeper... I don't see TAG being a success anywhere.

Edit: And now see Ben has posted as well... before my post

#1809 1 year ago
Quoted from jabdoa:

Those clauses usually apply only when you ship a product. It needs to include the source/attribution at that point. At least that is how GPL is interpreted in courts. A prototype would be grayarea for the cause of attribution but for source code it would be fine. This is very common for all kind of vendors to get wrong (about 90% of the router vendors in the world for example). They usually fix it later. Though some need to get reminded in court.

Isn't that exactly what I alluded to in the next line of my post?

Quoted from flynnibus:

Now, the real detailed guy would say "well this was just a showing of a prototype, its not done yet" so you can say those things are simply 'yet to come'. It's not like they would have to be handing out CDs with code at a pinball show to meet the requirements, or that possibly documentation/credit aren't done

But that wasn't Homepin's defense at all.. so .. here we are

#1843 1 year ago
Quoted from PinPatch:

Home pin did try to work with Ben Heck. Ben said no...
Still doesn't make it right, but Home pin did not set out to copy from the start.

That's a extremely optimistic view. Mike wasn't going to Ben to ask to use the system... he was going to ben to try to hire him (and he knew Ben had a platform). Ben said no.... so Mike had to keep looking and opt'd to borrow prior work, justifying to himself it was all legit.

#1856 1 year ago
Quoted from PinPatch:

it was out in the public as OPEN SOURCE.
Once again I don't agree with using IP without proper credit, but if Ben was so scared of it being copied why make it open source??? Don't put trade secrets out in the public if you don't want them copied!!


#1872 1 year ago
Quoted from jabdoa:

Most open source licenses allow commercial use. The common definition is the FSF definition: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Free_Software_Definition. Attribution must be given in most licenses and some (but not all) also force you to ship the source with the binary.
Ben's license for the boards forbids commercial use. However, CC is not a common open source license for software. (probably fine for boards though). Does anybody know which license was used for the source code?

Check the thread - this has been covered in detail ...


And look at the history on the license

#1877 1 year ago
Quoted from jabdoa:

That repository only has the CC license. There is no history before 2016. That is why I was asking.

Uhmmm... no


Goes back to whenthe code was originally published back in 2014... with a a shareAlike license. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0

Like the previous post already said...

#1883 1 year ago

Story doesn't hold water imo....

Then defenders are quick to point out these aren't final... they were rushed for pinfest... they just used what they had lying around.

These were boardsets made just for this game. They weren't Just "lying around" as they didn't exist. Before this, wasn't Mike going on about games on test location, how everything is coming together, etc.... and now he says the hardware isn't even ready in proto form?.. that's news...

Now Mike goes from "so what" to "well it really was someone else... not me"... keeps saying it's the prototype and pulls out the sympathy card.

Doesn't read as "you didn't have the full story"... reads like a set of excuses.

#1910 1 year ago
Quoted from Rascal_H:

That’s actually what happened though.

No it wasn't... he didn't have to ask permission... he asked ben to contribute to the effort

5 months later
#2198 1 year ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

What does TNA have in it at $6K?

Large LCD
Extra Score Displays
Extra LED displays
Extra sound system
Laser Cut Armor
Drop Targets and spinners
3 Flippers

TNA is a no compromise build - that's why its not cheap even tho it has only a single level PF.

2 months later
#2293 11 months ago

Yup.. Data East too... so in other words... very common in the past

2 months later
#2598 9 months ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

So why isn’t there a container scheduled for Australia? Why schedule containers elsewhere first?

If you believe his story... it's not that complicated..

Pre-orders that opt'd for 'free' shipping to AU need to hitch a ride on an existing container heading to AU
There isn't a paid shipment going to AU yet... so no containers to hitch a ride on
There isn't a paid shipment going to AU yet as they are still working out the arrangement on taxes/duties/etc

Their were other shipments that were not held up by TBD taxes/duties/arrangements so that container left

Sometimes you just get what you pay for... if you want to 'fly standby'... you wait for the boat that is heading your way.. WITH available space.

1 week later
#2818 8 months ago

Machines aren't built yet IMO...

There just seems to be a flurry of nebulous things that need to be tidied up before progress can be had... but everytime there is a solution offered to close the issue... new ones appear. Without deadlines... without a single throat to choke.

These are classic stall techniques.

Here's hoping people get their machines before the end of the year.

1 month later
#2991 7 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Well, did did say he wasn't going to sell to the US at one point after a big hissy fit. But he did change his mind when he saw the chance to make money off them.

Nah, I think it was a situation of "these were the only people coming with money in hand..."

The only reason you switch from "not my market..." to "first batches to you, at the expense of my 'market'" is money up front.. and the other guys aren't matching it.

5 months later
#3595 67 days ago
Quoted from ChuckChallenger:

If you wanted to help all these pre orders which I believe is less than 20 machines now, then say something nice or not at all.

I'm pretty sure that's what he did when he said he'd remove the shipping hurdles for people... but then new excuses came up.

1 month later
#3787 23 days ago
Quoted from pipes:

Although he also blamed the shipping company, Mike did send me new side rails when I emailed him.
If you notice, the newer games do not have this hump on the backbox anymore...Hmm, I wonder why?
What Mike failed to mention however, is the fact that the side rails are glued to the sides of the cab. Needless to say, getting the old ones off was super fun. FYI, they WILL NOT come off without damaging the cabinet decals. Good luck to anyone that ever has to do this. I had to use the side rail as a guide to cut the decal with an x-acto knife so when I pulled the rails off, only the part of the decal covered by the rails peeled off the cab. When the new rails went on you couldn't tell there wasn't any artwork underneath. Being that they're so paper thin and cheap I realized why the rails had to be glued. They flex and bend and don't sit tight to the cab. What an experience.

sounds like all side rails.. especially the WMS/BLY era. They are attached with two sided tape.. that is best removed with heat and a putty blade. The side armor is thin and off the cabinet you can even bend or kink it just holding it unsupported.

Older rails have screw nails or newer sterns have screws... but the old tape method has been around for agees

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