New York, NY
Thinking of getting in on a Thunderbirds pin... got burned for an Alien, so want to check what others think before trying again. Is this pin fun and reliable?
(Topic ID: 172723)
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Thunderbirds
Homepin, 2018
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Quoted from jonesjb:Thinking of getting in on a Thunderbirds pin... got burned for an Alien, so want to check what others think before trying again. Is this pin fun and reliable?
Have a look at a couple of streams of different people playing and commenting on it (good and bad comments):
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/301411256
This machine is a mission based game because that is what International Rescue does, they go on 'missions' to rescue people. This game is closely tied to the concepts of The Thunderbirds. Not terribly well known in the USA I know, but it is very well known elsewhere.
Leicester
Quoted from jonesjb:Is this pin fun and reliable
In my opinion, No and No. Played it in August and I really was ready to drop money for it. Left me cold. No software updates planned except for major bugs, and you either have to send the board off or get the programming thing from your distrib. Too little, too late for me.
Quoted from epotech:In my opinion, No and No. Played it in August and I really was ready to drop money for it. Left me cold. No software updates planned except for major bugs, and you either have to send the board off or get the programming thing from your distrib. Too little, too late for me.
Quoted from jonesjb:Thinking of getting in on a Thunderbirds pin... got burned for an Alien, so want to check what others think before trying again. Is this pin fun and reliable?
Building a pinball machine from scratch, and getting it to market is an impressive feat whichever way you look at it. Others have tried and failed, and if this thread is to be believed some of the most outspoken critics of Homepin/Mike ought to consider the mantra "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"..
I know from reading this thread and elsewhere that the path to getting Thunderbirds to market has been a rocky one. There are certainly some things that are questionable - e.g. the Ben Heck software appropriation, and other things that - were they to happen to others - I'm sure it would've been the end of the project completely - e.g. death of spouse, death of key programmer who took lots of stuff to his grave, etc. Homepin's attitude to the US market has been less than professional at times, but I would also say - as a Brit - that there are some who are jingoistic when it comes to competition to the "built in the USA" brands like Stern, JJP, etc. I can see why Mike might have gotten exasperated at times with attitudes. Not an excuse for being unprofessional, but I can sympathise that a one man figurehead getting lots of negativity, it's going to take its toll.
As a community of pinball lovers we benefit from entities like Homepin existing. I don't see any benefit at all in trying to run the company down because of personal agendas or whatever through negative and - it appears - unsubstantiated rumour mongering. It doesn't help anyone not least of which existing and prospective customers, and quite frankly it is so transparently malicious that it is simply boring to keep reading the usual suspects doing it on here.
I'm not a fan of Thunderbirds but I am pleased that it exists.
Melbourne
This was built from scratch not a retheme
https://www.facebook.com/CastrolRacingAU/videos/716653585360990/
It's indeed an impressive feat.. it's interesting to follow. but it is the right way or a sustainable model ? I'm not sure..
It reminds me a bit of the joke among photographers: how do you become a millionaire with photography ? Start with 2 million.
Quoted from aeneas:It's indeed an impressive feat.. it's interesting to follow. but it is the right way or a sustainable model ? I'm not sure..
It reminds me a bit of the joke among photographers: how do you become a millionaire with photography ? Start with 2 million.
Hard to say really, there's obviously a "growing pains" aspect to pinball manufacturing. I seem to recall Mike saying that pinballs wasn't Homepin's primary business so perhaps that's the secret to making it work. Being incorporated in China probably helps a lot too. I imagine it's not unlike renovating a house - if you have connections and access to trade pricing then you can make money, but if you're trying to do it all yourself, paying consumer prices etc then it would likely be ruinous or at the very least unprofitable.
Quoted from Durzel:Building a pinball machine from scratch, and getting it to market is an impressive feat whichever way you look at it. Others have tried and failed, and if this thread is to be believed some of the most outspoken critics of Homepin/Mike ought to consider the mantra "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"..
People who aren't in manufacturing shouldn't try manufacturing. It's not hard, it's expensive.
Having worked in manufacturing for 30 years, built machines from scratch, built for commerce, designed & manufactured, I feel I'm qualified to throw a stone or 2...
There is only a need for 'regular' software updates when products are released BEFORE they should be. We have been testing, and adjusting, the software (and dozens of other things) for a very long time and we are now happy with the overall performance. The software, and the machine in general, is performing exactly to our original intentions. How often does your new TV set, air conditioner or WMS pinball machine require a software update?
However, should it be necessary to update for some currently unknown reason, it is a simple plug in board about 50mm x 50mm - 30 seconds work and hardly a big deal. No downloads and no chance of bricking your machine.
We believe that we have achieved our aim of building a fun game that is easy to understand and play whilst NOT being 10 deep with the ruleset. Thunderbirds Pinball is a machine that "two half pissed guys in a pub" can bang the ball around and have a bit of fun. NOT something that requires Einstein to dissect each and every ball movement and calculate the exact trajectory for each shot. That was never our intention.
It is also well built using almost all stainless steel parts, mostly through hole, standard electronics and competitively priced in most markets (please note that Homepin does not set the sell price nor do we have anything to do with sales or promotions).
Those that know Thunderbirds (the TV show) will appreciate the lowering ramp, The Mole toy mechanism, falling trees and pool action of Tracy Island as being true to the original show. They will also know and recognise the original theme music and the dozens of callouts from the original characters in the show. Those that don't know Thunderbirds won't fully understand or appreciate why these features are built in. This is one reason TAG was always targeted at markets outside the USA. Sure, there are people in the USA that certainly do know and understand Thunderbirds but no where near as many as in other countries.
A couple of USA buyers have contacted me saying how happy they are with the machine and that is satisfying.
It is also our first machine built using all our own designed and manufactured parts and that has taken a staggering amount of time, effort and money, far more than originally anticipated.
We look forward to when we will be able to develop a machine that might be more appealing to the USA market but that time isn't right now. For now our sales agents efforts are concentrated on markets that already know and love Thunderbirds (as was our intention right from the start of this project). This doesn't mean that they WON'T be selling to the USA, it just means it isn't the ONLY place sales efforts are being concentrated.
By all means have your say on the machine, positive AND negative but please remember, we are not trying to compete with high end machines that are currently available from other manufacturers or anything from the past and also please consider the build quality and what you get for your lower purchase price.
Comparing TAG with PotC or Deadpool (as two examples) is plain silly. There is no comparison as TAG was never intended to compete with high end machines like these.
Actually, the software on my LG TV updates over wifi about once a month. YouTube app in the TV seems to update every week or so. These companies have teams of technical folks and still need to do updates because they missed things. I will bet you one US dollar that someone is going to find a bug at some point in your software. Nobody is perfect and will catch 100% of problems before release.
Quoted from JodyG:Actually, the software on my LG TV updates over wifi about once a month. YouTube app in the TV seems to update every week or so. These companies have teams of technical folks and still need to do updates because they missed things. I will bet you one US dollar that someone is going to find a bug at some point in your software. Nobody is perfect and will catch 100% of problems before release.
You have identified one main issue - "These companies have teams of technical folks" - Homepin has a total staff UNDER 20 people, for design, parts manufacture and machine assembly.
We just don't have the resources of these larger companies such as Stern with a huge department set up just for this work.
Please don't dismiss the rest of my post - it is all encompassing, NOT just focusing on software.
Quoted from jonesjb:How much do these cost to buy?
You would have to contact a dealer such as Pinball Star.
Quoted from jonesjb:So there are no MSRPs?
Homepin has nothing to do with sales at all. In Australia, it is against the law for a factory or importer to set a price. They invoice the retailer for the goods and then it is up to the retailer to determine what margin they want and then advertise a sell price (it's all more complex than this but basically this is a simplified version).
I have no idea what is done in countries other than Australia.
Quoted from Homepin:Homepin has nothing to do with sales at all. In Australia, it is against the law for a factory or importer to set a price. They invoice the retailer for the goods and then it is up to the retailer to determine what margin they want and then advertise a sell price (it's all more complex than this but basically this is a simplified version).
I have no idea what is done in countries other than Australia.
Gotcha, in that case fellow Pinsiders that are in on this pin, can you please give me a range of what this pin costs? Are we talking $2,500-$4,000 or around $5-6K (or higher)?
Quoted from GAP:We just got 3 TB in and 1 will be at pinball Expo.
Great American Pinball
I see you received one with a narrow coin door. Do you have any problems with the coin acceptors working with quarters? Can you set it to 4 quarters 1 play?
Quoted from cosmokramer:[quoted image]
Thank you!
Quoted from jonesjb:Gotcha, in that case fellow Pinsiders that are in on this pin, can you please give me a range of what this pin costs? Are we talking $2,500-$4,000 or around $5-6K (or higher)?
At the bottom of this thread you should see these two market place ads.
Its a $5k USD pin
60EC86CF-3CC3-4232-9AB0-91A95D4D0E82 (resized).jpegQuoted from KenLayton:I see you received one with a narrow coin door. Do you have any problems with the coin acceptors working with quarters? Can you set it to 4 quarters 1 play?
These machines have the full size coin door not the small one. They were fitted with a programmable coin mech in the factory programmed to give one game for one Thunderbirds token (a bag of these supplied with each machine).
The instruction sheet below is included inside the printed service manual also included with each machine.
The mechs can be reprogrammed to accept any type of coin up to 8 types and output any combination of credits/coins required.
coinmech1 (resized).pngcoinmech2 (resized).png
Quoted from HIPPO:Mike,how's it going with all the new Chinese government copy laws?
Also when do you think we will get our machines in Australia?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/homepin-thunderbirds-pinball-distribution#post-4627161
Quoted from Homepin:There is only a need for 'regular' software updates when products are released BEFORE they should be. We have been testing, and adjusting, the software (and dozens of other things) for a very long time and we are now happy with the overall performance. The software, and the machine in general, is performing exactly to our original intentions. How often does your new TV set, air conditioner or WMS pinball machine require a software update?
However, should it be necessary to update for some currently unknown reason, it is a simple plug in board about 50mm x 50mm - 30 seconds work and hardly a big deal. No downloads and no chance of bricking your machine.
We believe that we have achieved our aim of building a fun game that is easy to understand and play whilst NOT being 10 deep with the ruleset. Thunderbirds Pinball is a machine that "two half pissed guys in a pub" can bang the ball around and have a bit of fun. NOT something that requires Einstein to dissect each and every ball movement and calculate the exact trajectory for each shot. That was never our intention.
It is also well built using almost all stainless steel parts, mostly through hole, standard electronics and competitively priced in most markets (please note that Homepin does not set the sell price nor do we have anything to do with sales or promotions).
Those that know Thunderbirds (the TV show) will appreciate the lowering ramp, The Mole toy mechanism, falling trees and pool action of Tracy Island as being true to the original show. They will also know and recognise the original theme music and the dozens of callouts from the original characters in the show. Those that don't know Thunderbirds won't fully understand or appreciate why these features are built in. This is one reason TAG was always targeted at markets outside the USA. Sure, there are people in the USA that certainly do know and understand Thunderbirds but no where near as many as in other countries.
A couple of USA buyers have contacted me saying how happy they are with the machine and that is satisfying.
It is also our first machine built using all our own designed and manufactured parts and that has taken a staggering amount of time, effort and money, far more than originally anticipated.
We look forward to when we will be able to develop a machine that might be more appealing to the USA market but that time isn't right now. For now our sales agents efforts are concentrated on markets that already know and love Thunderbirds (as was our intention right from the start of this project). This doesn't mean that they WON'T be selling to the USA, it just means it isn't the ONLY place sales efforts are being concentrated.
By all means have your say on the machine, positive AND negative but please remember, we are not trying to compete with high end machines that are currently available from other manufacturers or anything from the past and also please consider the build quality and what you get for your lower purchase price.
Comparing TAG with PotC or Deadpool (as two examples) is plain silly. There is no comparison as TAG was never intended to compete with high end machines like these.
Mike I think the game is in excellent taste and meets the goals you set ,I see people continually bashing the game and have no interest in buying it .I personally would love to see them just move on ,I find it funny when I read there responses to your posts defending your company and quite frankly tired of the childish crap but have to wonder if they were in your position would they respond the same , I am sure they would ,they may say they would not but they would ,they like to be part of the problem or they would move on , I did buy a game and want to thank you for producing a affordable nib game ,the cost of games now are making them conversation trophy's and not good ole fun .Please try to not defend yourself on these forums , if you do not give the haters attention they will go away, good luck !!
1 week later
Played it at Expo 2018 --
rather wonk--ee.
- a video scan-line on the DMD kept scrolling up
- center ramp slowed flow (ball speed). And, a soft shot past the knee, was fed back SDTM
- right ramp was not satisfying. soft balls in the area would activate the ramp, and bring it down
- flippers felt like Wico (flipped liked an Af-Tor), a bit loud and snappy
- view of inlanes blocked by the green ship, and the mirror was not much help
cool stuff:
- bouncing palm tree? (spoiler alert)
- perty playfield colors
Short line to play it, that was nice.
Quoted from scott_freeman:- a video scan-line on the DMD kept scrolling up
.
Hahaha that's because it's using the AMH video code!
Toronto, ON
I didn’t even finish a full game. Playing it felt like I was being punished for liking pinball.
Did a human person with actual working fingers try those flipper buttons before they were mass produced? Such an odd choice of things to change. Every single person I watch step up to play and put their fingers on the buttons made a face like “WTF” when they touched them.
And what’s with that Rube Goldberg mech with springs and twisty wires to get the trees to shake? So much work for such a small effect.
When someone got multiball they commented “oh look, I got it to poop out a ball”, which perfectly sums up that ball release mech. Then he kept locking a ball(?) and his turn never ended.
There are two SDTM issues that a second whitewood would have solved, that is if anyone actually played the game a couple of times before going to production.
Normally I wouldn’t be so negative in a public forum but I believe Mike appreciates “straight talk” and not being politically correct and would want my honest opinion.
Quoted from jwilson:There are two SDTM issues that a second whitewood would have solved, that is if anyone actually played the game a couple of times before going to production.
Normally I wouldn’t be so negative in a public forum but I believe Mike appreciates “straight talk” and not being politically correct and would want my honest opinion.
you mean a third Whitewood
game was debuted last year and has been tweeked
Quoted from jwilson:I didn’t even finish a full game. Playing it felt like I was being punished for liking pinball.
Did a human person with actual working fingers try those flipper buttons before they were mass produced? Such an odd choice of things to change. Every single person I watch step up to play and put their fingers on the buttons made a face like “WTF” when they touched them.
And what’s with that Rube Goldberg mech with springs and twisty wires to get the trees to shake? So much work for such a small effect.
When someone got multiball they commented “oh look, I got it to poop out a ball”, which perfectly sums up that ball release mech. Then he kept locking a ball(?) and his turn never ended.
There are two SDTM issues that a second whitewood would have solved, that is if anyone actually played the game a couple of times before going to production.
Normally I wouldn’t be so negative in a public forum but I believe Mike appreciates “straight talk” and not being politically correct and would want my honest opinion.
You're being to kind. I played this for the first time yesterday and I can honestly say that it is probably the worst pinball machine I have ever played. Just awful in every way. Sorry, I really wanted to like it and hopefully Mikes second effort will be better. Who designed this machine anyway? They should be ashamed of themselves. And what is with that center ramp? Whoever came up with that took the word "ramp" too literally. Because it feels like a wheelchair access ramp taking the ball over the pops and for some reason dropping it in the top lanes. The ball coming up from the playfield during multi ball that was supposed to be so cool was completely underwhelming. Mike said that he accomplished his goal of the game being fun for two guys having some beers and playing it half pissed in a bar. You would have to be fully pissed and consume many euphoric narcotics to get that feeling while playing Thunderbirds. Sorry to be so harsh, but there is no way to sugar coat just how awful this game is even though Rotordave tried so unconvincingly to do so. Really shallow code is the least of this games problems. Oh the humanity.
Quoted from vicjw66:Sorry to be so harsh, but there is no way to sugar coat just how awful this game is even though Rotordave tried so unconvincingly to do so.
I don’t think that’s fair at all.
Here’s a post I made SIX MONTHS AGO when the game was here.
Quoted from rotordave:I don’t think Mike is going for the players market.
If you compare Thunderbirds gameplay to say TWD, you’re going to be pretty disappointed. It isn’t that.
I can’t see how anyone could say that sugarcoated anything? Plain as day.
So, again, (and again) I’ll say the Pinside crew is not the target market for this machine.
Nobody on Pinside is going to buy this machine when you can get a Stern Pro for a similar price.
Gameplay wise, they’re not in the same league, and nobody thinks (or has ever said) any different.
I’m sorry if you didn’t pick that up in what I posted. Even though I said it a few times. 
rd
Quoted from benheck:Hahaha that's because it's using the AMH video code!
DMD running at 50Hz vs 60Hz Ben ?
Easy fix ?
Quoted from rotordave:I don’t think that’s fair at all.
Here’s a post I made SIX MONTHS AGO when the game was here.I can’t see how anyone could say that sugarcoated anything? Plain as day.
I certainly didn’t buy one, and the sample one left my house and went back to Australia months ago. Mike offered to ship it over to show people at the NZ Pincade event and get some feedback. Some of the attendees liked it, and two guys wanted to buy it as they liked the theme (it’s popular here) and how it looked. But it went to Aussie to Highway games to use as a demo unit.
I pointed out some of the good aspects of it, like the cabinet construction (my BM66 cabinet fell apart around the same time ...) and some things I saw as improvements, like the way the playfield rolled out on wheels. The same day I posted that, my mates Ghostbusters playfield fell off the slides and into his cabinet. Lol.
Generally I tend to look at the positive aspects of things ... and remember that it was a prototype machine that was here, and Mike was going to make changes to the playfield and the software.
Gameplay wise, and layout wise, I gave Mike some detailed feedback on what I thought of it via email and video, most of it not positive, and certainly not sugar coated, and to Mikes credit he took it on board and made a few changes. It was too late to do the majority of the changes I suggested, like moving the centre ramp way back like KISS and Aerosmith. So, basically it is what it is. I have no idea who designed the PF layout.
So, again, (and again) I’ll say the Pinside crew is not the target market for this machine.
Nobody on Pinside is going to buy this machine when you can get a Stern Pro for a similar price.
Gameplay wise, they’re not in the same league, and nobody thinks (or has ever said) any different.
I’m sorry if you didn’t pick that up in what I posted. Even though I said it a few times.
rd
What I'm hearing from guys in oz this game isn't for this market either. Some very disappointed preorder guys
Dave, this game isn’t for anybody. You were put in a bad spot. I can only imagine how you must have felt when you set it up and put a few games on it. Something like, holy crap this game is bad. What positive things can I say about it?
Everybody respects your opinion, and your opinion on this game perhaps makes or breaks Homepin. I feel bad for Mike, but he should have spent the money and hired an established designer. Thunderbirds in its current state never should have been green lighted for production.
Quoted from blue95:Saw this on Facebook today, looks like the ramp is being upgraded https://www.facebook.com/homepin.factory/videos/1101358540030898/
just upgrade the design and it will be great
Quoted from blue95:Saw this on Facebook today, looks like the ramp is being upgraded https://www.facebook.com/homepin.factory/videos/1101358540030898/
I think impressions would have been rather more favourable if they'd had this metal ramp from the start ...
Played it in Banning quite a few times, seemed pretty solid, thoroughly tested.
Not extremely stimulating [ to me ] but a good basic game.
Much better than the empty space would be should the pin not be there.
The ramp up/down thing was very well done, just as far as sensing ball under scoop goes, etc.
Quoted from mcbPalisade:Much better than the empty space would be should the pin not be there.
That's a hell of an endorsement!
Quoted from JodyG:That's a hell of an endorsement!
Let's just say it is better than I would give this pinball machine I found in Laughlin, NV. Sure they'll fix the one arm bandits but pinball is beyond them.
Their claw plush toy worked perfectly, that is what people want these days.
WoaNellieLaughlin (resized).jpgQuoted from rotordave:I don’t think that’s fair at all.
So, again, (and again) I’ll say the Pinside crew is not the target market for this machine.
Nobody on Pinside is going to buy this machine when you can get a Stern Pro for a similar price.
Gameplay wise, they’re not in the same league, and nobody thinks (or has ever said) any different.
What target market is he going for?
Next, we can say, he is not going for the Facebook market, the twitter market, the instragram market, the Ausie Arcade market, ....
Maybe he wants the Zizzle, Noid, Jetsons, market?
Quoted from mcbPalisade:Let's just say it is better than I would give this pinball machine I found in Laughlin, NV. Sure they'll fix the one arm bandits but pinball is beyond them.
Their claw plush toy worked perfectly, that is what people want these days.
[quoted image]
This is in Humpty Dumpty mode where the flippers are back to front 
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