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(Topic ID: 172723)

Homepin OFFICIAL Thread - Pinball Parts & Machine Progress


By Homepin

3 years ago



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  • 4,311 posts
  • 401 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 74 days ago by wiredoug
  • Topic is favorited by 166 Pinsiders

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Topic index (key posts)

33 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 4311 posts in this topic. You are on page 36 of 87.
#1751 3 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

I guess we know how he wants to discuss the legalities of his product.

Mike doesn't have to and both him and Ben know this. Ben could spend $$$'s hiring lawyers but Mike could simply spend 6 months or so 'refining' the board design and software so it no longer resembles Pinheck. If Mike leaves the design and software as is, the best Ben can do is to take him to a US court and get a US import ban, which would be ineffective as Mike has stated time and time again he doesn't want to sell in the US.

This is why Ben has been trying to open up some kind of mediation (albeit through public naming and shaming) to which Mikes answer has been 'LOL IDGAF'.

#1752 3 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Only because you tried to tell someone to learn how to use words.....
Slander is spoken, libel is written. His comments would technically be libelous.

Thanks for the education. You learn something everyday.

I actually edited my post 5 minutes after after hitting send to change my wording a bit. Not quick enough though. But I get your point.

I think my point (my opinion) was made none the less.

Homepin has not been prosecuted for anything, and nothing is proven in my eyes. I am not a technical person, so what Ben has shown goes straight over my head. But stating that he is an outright thief without independently verified proof, then i think people need to stop the “libel” IMO.

#1753 3 years ago

Going off-topic, but in Australian law, there is no distinction between libel and slander and the word 'defamation' is used instead:

However, since the introduction of the Defamation Act 2005 (SA) on 1 January 2006, the distinction between slander and libel has been abolished and the publication of defamatory matter of any kind is actionable

(source: http://www.lawhandbook.sa.gov.au/ch16s03.php)

#1754 3 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

I didn't know Thor wrote a book!

He didn't - at least not that one. Look closer.

55
#1755 3 years ago

I know (based off video evidence and photos of his PCB) that Mike copied our entire electronics system. Far beyond "inspiration".

But a partial admission + rage quit is enough for me.

#1756 3 years ago

how expected... "this isn't the real stuff of course..." "critical, I'll take my ball and go home"

Not shockingly... absent from Mike's quotation of Ben's past posts is an observance of DATES. Quoting Ben's posts from 2014... and conveniently omitting that his (Mike's) actions are from at least June 2016. Of significance is that as of Feb 2016... The pinheck code was covered by a new license. One that disallows commercial use. Even the original code was covered by a 'sharealike' license which at the minimum requires sharing at the same level as the original.

So Mike admits he's using the system... has modified it... and incorrectly points to Ben Heck posts to try to justify his behavior, all while failing to recognize it just hangs himself.

Well... Let the 'China copies' mantra continue...

#1757 3 years ago

wow, Homepin is inactive, and he said in the head 2 head interview he had thick skin

#1758 3 years ago
Quoted from swinks:

wow, Homepin is inactive, and he said in the head 2 head interview he had thick skin

I think all the shit he's endured here and elsewhere over years shows he does. But I guess everyone has a breaking point.

20
#1759 3 years ago

Unlike in America where everybody wants to sue somebody or blame somebody, maybe where he's at he just wants to make pinball machines and not deal with all the finger pointing or any of the other bullshit.

#1760 3 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

maybe .. he just wants to make pinball machines and not deal with all the .. bullshit.

thats pretty much nailed it

#1761 3 years ago

EDIT: Removed a negative post.

I get that Mikes been through a *lot* the last couple of years and I appreciate he has done everything he can to get TAG to market as best he could, but he really needs to come up with a better response to the allegations than 'Oh it was OK to copy', 'I didn't copy it' and 'I don't care'.

#1762 3 years ago
Quoted from pocketscience:

I think all the shit he's endured here and elsewhere over years shows he does. But I guess everyone has a breaking point.

agree, he has had to endure alot and has achieved alot and I am not denying him that, and quite a feat for one person and a few employees and subcontractors. But if he used Ben's software and board design, acknowledge it and show appreciation and respond earlier instead of the silence for a long period of time. Answering early can potential change the direction of a situation.

-16
#1763 3 years ago

If he is using Heck's design, he is already showing appreciation. And that is the best compliment you can give anyone.

#1764 3 years ago

I for one am glad this is a theme that doesn't appeal to me and that the shot design is severely lacking. I won't be tempted to purchase a pin from someone who stole from one of the truly good guys in this hobby.

#1765 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballkim:

I for one am glad this is a theme that doesn't appeal to me and that the shot design is severely lacking. I won't be tempted to purchase a pin from someone who stole from one of the truly good guys in this hobby.

Agreed. Also like the China Copies mantra posted above.

#1766 3 years ago

If going down the node board route (which im a great fan of when implemented correctly) hopefully will not make same mistakes as stern!

Also be interesting to see how much of Bens Kernel is left in it?

Sounds like the new hardware is basically splitting off the lamp/solenoid/led drivers onto separate node boards separated via canbus network but will it still run the propeller processor and BenHeck core?

And hopefully for the sake of all buyers it has USB firmware updates! Lol

Some sort if offical credit to BenHeck is also needed as his system WAS used for R&D/Prototype and most likely still integrated into the new system.

#1767 3 years ago
Quoted from russdx:

If going down the node board route (which im a great fan of when implemented correctly) hopefully will not make same mistakes as stern!

What mistakes did Stern make in your opinion?

As a side note: Spike is RS485 not CAN.

#1768 3 years ago

Well, that went downhill fast......

Time for a Yoda quote.

45c9bdc194e85eec48cdd93c274a5eda--fear-leads-to-anger-yoda-quotes (resized).jpg

#1769 3 years ago
Quoted from jabdoa:

What mistakes did Stern make in your opinion?
As a side note: Spike is RS485 not CAN.

Not just my opinion but of many others as well.

The mistake was instead of having a few generic node boards they made loads of custom boards! (and custom boards between different series of the same machine) Ie special led node boards (custom to that one machine) or custom node board for this and that.

Down side is if one led goes on this node board you pretty much have to replace the whole thing unless you have smd experience and tools to repair! Other down side is you dont make as many custom boards so prices are far higher! (for replacements)

IN MY OPINION
Just have a few generic boards that ALL machines use, this way they are extremely cheap and people can replace lamps easily(ie lamp is separate and is wired to the node board, far easier to track faults, your not always spending money designing/prototyping/testing/manufacturing custom node boards all the time. Just have a nice off the shelf selection to choose from when building a machine.

Much like the fast/proc systems.

-1
#1770 3 years ago

When you have finished that book Mike, give this one a read. I'm nearly finished it, and I must say it really helps. Good luck with finishing off TAG. I can't wait to play the finished product.

image (resized).jpg

-3
#1771 3 years ago

Zero fucks given.

#1772 3 years ago
Quoted from PinSinner:

When you have finished that book Mike, give this one a read. I'm nearly finished it, and I must say it really helps. Good luck with finishing off TAG. I can't wait to play the finished product.

And that is a great mantra to live by if you are a union longshoreman. Not so much if you are a salesman trying to represent a new pinball company.

#1773 3 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

Not so much if you are a salesman trying to represent a new pinball company.

thats the point so many dont get .. hes NOT a salesman. He doesnt want to 'represent' anything.

He just wants to go make pinball machines in peace and the international court of pintards wont let him.

#1774 3 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

thats the point so many dont get .. hes NOT a salesman. He doesnt want to 'represent' anything.
He just wants to go make pinball machines in peace and the international court of pintards wont let him.

So essentially this is his strategy to sell his product?

Quoted from wiredoug:

thats the point so many dont get .. hes NOT a salesman. He doesnt want to 'represent' anything.
He just wants to go make pinball machines in peace and the international court of pintards wont let him.

Well, good luck with that.

-1
#1775 3 years ago

I’m confused. Ben says he stole it and knows his code backwards as only he would. Fair enough.
But Mike quotes Bens posts saying it’s ok to copy and pretty much do as you like with it. So not stolen. Permission given from what I read. Am I missing something. It’s only a Pinball after all.

Storm in a teacup. TBAG springs to mind lol.

#1776 3 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

So essentially this is his strategy to sell his product?

hes not trying to sell you his product.. its not about "you" ( collectively nothing personal) at all..

Quoted from vicjw66:

Well, good luck with that.

will be sure to pass on your good wishes to him thanks

Quoted from jokerpoker:

Am I missing something.

the days of 3k junkyards?

pinball people really are special

17
#1777 3 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

thats the point so many dont get .. hes NOT a salesman. He doesnt want to 'represent' anything.
He just wants to go make pinball machines in peace and the international court of pintards wont let him.

Noone is stopping him making pinball machines.. he has done that. Along the way though he has been very abrasive to many people and stamped his personality all over it. Its been a journey of endless spin, BS and plagiarism. The pictures of the "secret" boards were removed from another forum but not before they were posted here where he cant remove them. His lack of integrity laid bare for all to witness. If you are trying to paint Mike as the victim here, try again. In his own words, he doesn't give a f**k and I honestly believe that to be true.. he really doesn't give a f**k about anyone... but there again is that abrasive personality shining through like a beacon.

15
#1778 3 years ago
Quoted from wiredoug:

thats the point so many dont get .. hes NOT a salesman. He doesnt want to 'represent' anything.
He just wants to go make pinball machines in peace and the international court of pintards wont let him.

If that was the case he would have not been on several forums trying to drum up business. No one is stopping him from making pinball machines. If what you say is true the games would just be complete and people would find out about them through web searches randomly looking for pinball stuff. Instead he is on several forums and just started taking games to shows so that he can sell them and represent Homepin. This is pretty much the exact definition of representation and salesmanship. Unfortunately he's not good at either. I hope for his employees sake that this game doesn't sink the company but based on what the game video looks like this project is in big trouble. Hopefully it can be turned around and he will give Ben the credit he is due.

Quoted from jokerpoker:

I’m confused. Ben says he stole it and knows his code backwards as only he would. Fair enough.
But Mike quotes Bens posts saying it’s ok to copy and pretty much do as you like with it. So not stolen. Permission given from what I read. Am I missing something. It’s only a Pinball after all.
Storm in a teacup. TBAG springs to mind lol.

Did you read anything that Ben wrote? He was very specific that he would not allow use of his system for commercial projects and was kind enough to offer help for people doing home brew games. He stole Ben's idea and Ben specifically told him he did not have his permission to use it.

-3
#1779 3 years ago
Quoted from Retropin:

If you are trying to paint Mike as the victim here, try again.

no im trying to say the same thing you said.. he doesnt care what these people think.

There are many here who seem to feel they're entitled to have it be all about them, that they're entitled to know all happenings and anything they dont approve is "not good enough dammit".

but .. its not like that.. they need to learn .. he really doesnt do this for 'them'

#1780 3 years ago
Quoted from Retropin:

Noone is stopping him making pinball machines.. he has done that. Along the way though he has been very abrasive to many people and stamped his personality all over it. Its been a journey of endless spin, BS and plagiarism. The pictures of the "secret" boards were removed from another forum but not before they were posted here where he cant remove them. His lack of integrity laid bare for all to witness. If you are trying to paint Mike as the victim here, try again. In his own words, he doesn't give a f**k and I honestly believe that to be true.. he really doesn't give a f**k about anyone... but there again is that abrasive personality shining through like a beacon.

He wants everyone to think he doesn't give a f**k but anyone reading that book in the first place, must initially give a f**k

#1781 3 years ago

Damn, I was diggin' this thread.
He could have said "I like to thank Ben & his team for the use of their code. It allowed us to have a flipping playfield for design purposes & we've since developed our own system for use in production machines."

#1782 3 years ago
Quoted from jokerpoker:

I’m confused. Ben says he stole it and knows his code backwards as only he would. Fair enough.
But Mike quotes Bens posts saying it’s ok to copy and pretty much do as you like with it. So not stolen. Permission given from what I read. Am I missing something.

Yes you are missing something. See https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/homepin-official-thread-pinball-parts-machine-progress/page/36#post-4029890

18
#1783 3 years ago
Quoted from Topher5000:

Damn, I was diggin' this thread.
He could have said "I like to thank Ben & his team for the use of their code. It allowed us to have a flipping playfield for design purposes & we've since developed our own system for use in production machines."

All it takes are some words and some humility. Instead, Homepin wants everyone to know that he doesn't give a fuck about what he does.

The living embodiment of "can dish it out but can't take it."

#1784 3 years ago

It's pretty obvious that Mike doesn't want to sell to pinsiders. Any of you anxious to plunk your pre-payments down deserve whatever you get, good or bad.

33
#1785 3 years ago

Well, this is unfortunate. I had enjoyed following the progress being made in this thread and having a peek inside a manufacturing facility.

Manufacturers have always had a rough time participating on forums because of all the critical attention directed towards them. Mike's approach to dealing with that was....interesting (for lack of a better word).

Mike sure lost a lot of my respect today because of the fact he did use Ben's PinHeck system without permission, and then threw a tantrum when he was caught and called out for it. This shows the complete lack of respect for someone else's very hard work and I'm incredibly disappointed.

Instead of a response like "Sorry, I shouldn't have done that" or "How can I make this right", we got "I can do anything I want. You guys are all meanies and I'm taking my ball and going home".

11
#1786 3 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

The living embodiment of "can dish it out but can't take it."

Not sure if you saw the Aussie arcade thread that was a hot topic a few weeks ago (seems deleted now) but this was on display there with him going on about how he doesn't care about what people think of the language he uses but when someone called him a 'tinkerer' right afterwards he got bent out of shape. Pathetic.

#1787 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

Not sure if you saw the Aussie arcade three that was a hot topic a few weeks ago (seems deleted now) but this is was on display there with him going on about how he doesn't care about what people think of the language he uses but when someone called him a 'tinkerer' right afterwards he got bent out of shape. Pathetic.

Yup

#1788 3 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Well, this is unfortunate. I had enjoyed following the progress being made in this thread and having a peek inside a manufacturing facility.

Manufacturers have always had a rough time participating on forums because of all the critical attention directed towards them. Mike's approach to dealing with that was....interesting (for lack of a better word).

Mike sure lost a lot of my respect today because of the fact he did use Ben's PinHeck system without permission, and then threw a tantrum when he was caught and called out for it. This shows the complete lack of respect for someone else's very hard work and I'm incredibly disappointed.

Instead of a response like "Sorry, I shouldn't have done that" or "How can I make this right", we got "I can do anything I want. You guys are all meanies and I'm taking my ball and going home".

There was lots of stuff to lose respect for him for before he was called out for stealing Ben’s work.

I’ve lost respect for anyone it took this long to lose respect.

#1789 3 years ago
Quoted from Rascal_H:

There was lots of stuff to lose respect for him for before he was called out for stealing Ben’s work.

Well, this was rock bottom.

Big difference between saying stuff and doing stuff.

#1790 3 years ago

We have to accept people as they are.
Deal with them or not.
Buy the machine, or not.
Nobody's perfekt!

#1791 3 years ago

The pinHeck board set is still freely available online: https://github.com/LonghornEngineer/Pinheck_Pinball_System/tree/master/Hardware/Pinheck%20Main%20Board

But it has the following license attached: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/

If you're really bored, feel free to compare the Eagle files linked above to the Homepin board photo attached below. Granted it's half the PCB, but everything matches up to things on the pinHeck system so I assume the rest is a straight copy as well.

Take note of:

1) WS2801 RGB drivers and TIP102's on upper left (Spooky backbox / cabinet RGB)
2) The "PIC reset" and "PIC programmer" headers indicating same main MCU as well.
3) Same non-standard 6.5HMz crystal for the Propeller (we slightly overclock usually it's 5MHz another dead giveaway)
4) Banks of pull up resistors going to AND gates for MOSFETs coil control. (nobody else uses AND gates for this)
5) 74HC595 shift register and TIP's for cabinet GI (lower right corner)
6) DMD connector going to same pins on Propeller chip. (middle)

homepin (resized).jpg

-11
#1792 3 years ago

Well, this is unfortunate.
It looks like another pinball manufacturer has been run off the forum.
Sometimes, I just wonder if it would be better, for people to email their concerns to the other parties, instead of flagrantly throwing them to the wolves here. Sometimes we aren’t the most kind bunch here (me included).
Pack mentality abounds here we’ll. It turns me off sometimes.

#1793 3 years ago
Quoted from Homepin:

eventually settling on a similar CAN bus system currently used by Stern.

Stern's Spike system is not a CAN bus. My modular board set in the original Whoa Nellie! used CAN (Controller Area Network), but the Stern Whoa Nellie did not. My designs and code were never open source.

#1794 3 years ago
Quoted from sd_tom:

but when someone called him a 'tinkerer' right afterwards he got bent out of shape. Pathetic.

From what I saw of Thunderbirds, I would say that he's got a lot of tinkering ahead of him to fix that mess.

#1795 3 years ago
Quoted from Hitch9:

Well, this is unfortunate.
It looks like another pinball manufacturer has been run off the forum.

I think you're getting ahead of yourself. Mike has got a long way to go before he can be classified as a pinball manufacturer.

#1796 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

3) Same non-standard 6.5HMz crystal for the Propeller (we slightly overclock usually it's 5MHz another dead giveaway)

Additional details not needed.... you had me at [Parallax] Propeller
It's a dead give-away when they copied such a rare part.

#1797 3 years ago
Quoted from Hitch9:

Well, this is unfortunate.
It looks like another pinball manufacturer has been run off the forum.
Sometimes, I just wonder if it would be better, for people to email their concerns to the other parties, instead of flagrantly throwing them to the wolves here. Sometimes we aren’t the most kind bunch here (me included).
Pack mentality abounds here we’ll. It turns me off sometimes.

You are not serious are you? For the most part the game did not get positive reviews at release. It did not just get blasted but lots of feedback was offered that was not positive. But what do you expect if the game has major design flaws. Next up it's pointed out that the board design and most of the code was just ripped off from Ben. Which appears to be true and was even confirmed by Homepin. Then he throws a little hissy fit and closes his account.

Simple fact is he to this point is behind, has a poorly designed game that needs lots of work, and a ripped off board set and code. It's going to be pretty hard to expect good reviews when that is what you bring to the table. Throw in that he's a hot head that lives by the daily code of I don't give a F%%K and I can't imagine why this project is circling the drain.

-11
#1798 3 years ago

Would posting over and over again that somebody used your design qualify as broken record on this forum?

#1799 3 years ago

Keep those thumbs down coming people, but I've been informed we all have to play by the same rules around here.

#1800 3 years ago
Quoted from Homepin:

(very unprofessional Ben and you lose points for that).

hahahahaha! I almost spit out my drink. I think Ben Heck is very well respected compared to a person who hasn't completed anything. Laughable. "mmmmhmm, errrrr, very unprofessional Ben, errrr. All your points lost."

Quoted from Homepin:

In any case, our main market (and let me say it for the 50th time) is NOT the USA

Good Luck Australia! God Bless!

Quoted from Homepin:

I bought a book at Sydney airport and almost finished reading it on the flight home. The trolls on here could turn their lives around by reading it - "The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A F*ck" by Mark Manson. It is well worth the read.

Good Luck calling future customer service, Australia. Look at the literature this guy is reading & tell me he cares about anything other than your money.

Just another laughable thread filled with speculation talking about a guy and company who haven't produced shit. STOP wasting your energy and go help kids in your neighborhood.

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