I am concerned if it has been routed or not.

The original bill of sale proves nothing as well...

Exactly

Who are you to tell people that their pin is not HUO? You have a crystal ball . better look at it again.

broke.jpg

Beware to those who just bought a nib for their house, and want to sell it later down the road..you can't claim HUO because

I see where this is going

If you're the original buyer or know the original buyer, that's different. I bought and paid a premium for a HUO Firepower that isn't. That wasn't the first time.

There area lot of people buying brand new sterns / wos . That is not, "very few actually are "
To paint all those buying NIB's with a stroke of his brush..is my objection. More and more people are buying new for their home...it's not right to discard this fact so easily.

Easy way to fix all the problems, HUO ads will be deleted without proof of purchase. Done.

If you don't like HUO, how about "HOOT", as in "Home Only Owner, True" then?

I still have all the games I bought NIB, though I have no idea where the sales receipts are (and don't really give a hoot either)

It's a ridiculously stupid term anyways, games are either in really good shape or they're not. Whether they sat unplayed on location at a VA hall (true story for a pin I was trying to buy) or in someone's home arcade that got constant play at parties by drunk friends it's what they look like that counts.

Just retire it already, condition is king.

Mint and near mint mean nothing, these are pinball machines not coins and this term shouldn't be used either.

Yeah I have a minty HUO rare machine and that warrants my extremely high price. LOL. This hobby is brutal! Dog eat dog world.

This.

Minty fresh?

I do know there have been games listed as HUO when the seller has no proof (or reason) to make such a claim. I sold a game to someone and know it had at least 2 owners before me. I was never told it was HUO. I never told the person I sold it to that it was HUO. Yet I see they did list it as a HUO machine when they went to sell it. It may have been HUO, but I personally wouldn't claim that...unless I knew or was told and believed that.I can see mentioning that it's HUO if you know it's HUO, but I don't see any reason to make that claim if you don't know.

As they say, condition is king, but yet you still have folks that take so much stock in how many plays are on the games play count (which can easily be reset) and prefer the goodie bag being wadded up in the bottom of the cabinet instead of being kept in a nice flat binder. Much of this has nothing to do with the condition of what they are buying / selling and all about being able to brag about how "new" a game is.

HUO can also mean Heavily Used and Operated.

Totally disagree... the 'HUO' term has its place in this hobby but people just have to know when to use it and when not to use it. To many use it when they shouldn't.

I know the term has nothing to do with condition but to me (and many others) it has EVERYTHING to do with condition! I will never use the term unless the pin looks like it just came out of the box yesterday. To me that is the ONLY time the term should ever be used... pretty much flawless, low play and new like condition inside and out with a shooter lane that glistens.

Get a freakin life. If the game was bought new and used in someone's home for 20+ years, then it's Home Use Only.
It could still look like freaking shit!

The only thing that has to do with the Condition, is the actual CONDITION.

You totally missed the point... which I can't say I'm surprised coming from you.

I get the point. It's just all practically meaningless.

No, you obviously don't...

You win. Another bi-yearly "HUO" discussion where only TrollKee is right.

It's HUO, as in its only been used in my home since I've owned it .

You don't have to tell me... never had any doubt.

Trollkee makes the best argumentspeewee.jpg

You're not so bad yourself TrolleyD

As I'm mentioned many times, this is a typical comment of someone who has never seen a true HUO wpc. While I agree it's the condition that counts, I have yet to see an in person or anywhere on the net a true HUO WPC that looks like shit.

Receipt or not, a true HUO WPC can be determined right way by spectacular condition. One might say the best restorers could have done this, but really, they're not trying to fool any one and would brand it as their work, and more often then not do so much additional modding or chroming, that would be indicative as well.

how about "NOR"? (never on route)

It's not the letters in question here..never on route IS saying home use only. essentially same thing.
I think teekee and atomicboy have it right with it is "expected" to look flawless. Most of us that do have a true HUO machine don't let people abuse it in our homes. The concept that animal partys playing these machines without care is not expected. You need to take off your rings and watches if you want to play mine..overboard..maybe..but, it still looks like it came out of the box (ss) and that is the way I want to keep it. Also if I would ever want to list as HUO. I wouldn't want anyone disappointed. This HUO is our hobby term for the most part..I don't see a need to loose it because of a loose canon.

Condition is what speaks, not 'HUO', 'reimport', etc....

There is a guy right now on the SF CL who is claiming to have a HUO Bingo. The term gets over-used. Local flippers claim every game they get is HUO.....It is similar to the 'this car was driven on sundays by a granny to the local store.' BS that car dealers use.

Blah blah blah, I don't care. Really nice WPC is a really nice WPC. We have words for that, they describe the condition of the game. Being in a home instead of an arcade is irrelevant. What if it was bought by an op, stored in a warehouse before going on route, and then he went out of business and it just sat there unplayed? That's not "home use only", would you pass up on it when it came up for sale? Of course not. It's a stupid term, and no amount of "you don't get it" is going to change my mind, sorry.

I like "Home Use Only since 11/05/97" or some other such date.

and what happens when near mint gets abused , will this get banned . condition when viewed in person is everything

Why? Isn't condition of the game what you are interested in?

A HUO game may be in worse condition than a game that was routed for a few months and put in storage.

That would be a very rare scenario. Most are routed, some are home use only, others fall in the NIB finds, and unheard of stuff like what you posted. I did agree with you that condition is the important thing, and obviously I think everyone would, but when I hear people say HUO could be a piece of crap, that's what I have to step in and say what I did, again, you have clearly not owned a HUO WPC.

This isn't coming from a snob elitist, all of my current WPC’s were routed for some point, some very little, some a lot, I take what I can get, and I have done a lot to them to make the PF’s look and play as good as possible, but I have owned two HUO WPC’s, and gone through a lot of machines, and coming from experience, which a lot of the people that would state HUO means something I bet would confirm, HUO WPC’s they have come across are well above even the best shape, non-restored games out there.

It means a lot, and it commands the price and demand as such. There is no arguing that. Good luck to those that want the term to go away, but it ain’t.

At least it's a term that means something relevant. Sure, people abuse terms, they lie, some sellers are super shady, some are just dumb. But it describes the actual condition of the machine you are buying. Heck, even NIB describes the condition for the most part (battery damage and rubber rotting aside).

HUO doesn't. It's a meaningless terms for wanker collectors to throw around, and that's it. It only matters to people with $$ in their eyes, which is why Teekee downvoted me. I cherish those downvotes, they assure me that I'm on the right path.

The ones you had were. Hardly surprising, in most cases being in a home will be nicer to a machine than a public arcade. No one is disputing that obvious fact. But it doesn't always mean that, which is why as a term of machine condition it's useless.

If "mint" meant "in perfect condition, absolutely flawless, except sometimes not" it would be a useless term also.

My apologies that you can't appreciate that which others do. I'm sure there is someone that you know that would say the same about the machines you have purchased, that pinball is a waste, and the same about the TS package you made, saying no one needs that, but in the end there is a desire and a damand in all cases, and you insulting those that choose to care about what you have no vested insterest in is unwarranted.

Your comments are pretty bold for someone so new still. Grow up a little and quit being such a knowitall with what matters and what does not.

So good and makes so much sense I had to quote myself…

And so could a pin that someone describes as 'mint' or 'perfect' or 'flawless' or 'beautiful' or… all these words get abused.

HUO should only be used by those that know…

lol okay, this grasshopper is gonna move on then. If it matters to you then enjoy it. I'll continue to buy based on real world measurements after looking at the machine in person and inspecting it. We can both be happy.

I didn't say that. It matters to people, it doesn't to sum, but it means something. There is no reason to call people wankers and basically state they have more money than brains because they desire this.

Even if I had the money to buy all that I have in expensive HUO's, which I'm sure if you have the money, you could, I would not, as I don't personally appreciate that as much as I would playable nice machines I fix up, and using the money elsewhere. But that's not to say if I was to come across a HUO I might not buy it, and it's not to say that I can't appreciate that some might want this, and that it does mean something value wise.

I don't believe if you were blindly aware of a machine you wanted coming up somewhere close to you, and you then learned it was HUO without seeing it, you wouldn't get more excited.

Just trust me on this. I'm sure there are comments from me from years previous where I made similar remarks, "HUO could be bad shape, means nothing", honestly I'm sure of it, but once you get one, and come to see what they all do look like from people posting finds on pinside and RGP, you soon realize, well at least I can say, I have NEVER seen a poor HUO find, they are all outstanding with some issues (leakage, marks on the cab from being wherever).

double post, delete

If someone wants to mislead buyers with deceptive descriptions, they're going to find a way, your not going to be able to prevent it by telling them what words to use. There is no perfect rating system. Don't you people watch the Brady Bunch, Caviat Emptor......

But the leaks and marks were home leaks, not route marks and leaks, right?

Point taken though, the wanker comment was probably over the top. But these days 85% of the time you see a HUO listing it's a new Stern, and ... big whoop? Plenty of Sterns bought for homes, not routes, big deal.

I'll admit, if I was say, still looking for my Scared Stiff, and I saw HUO in the ad, I'd probably perk up. So I don't want to be a hypocrite here. But if I showed up and it was beat on or even just a little scuffed and faded I wouldn't care at all that it was HUO, the term just doesn't carry enough meaning beyond "hey, it's possible it's really nice!". We'd be talking price based on condition, nothing else.

Just read the entire thread and it appears that everyone is pretty much saying the same thing just haggling over which TLA to use, my TLA for this thread is OMG - go and play some of whatever TLA conditioned pinball you have

I do find however that HUO can elicit excitement and scepticism simultaneously, just enjoy the thrill of the chase to see what chocolate is in the box when you get there.........(WTF am I saying lol ).....

But to some HUO means every scrap that came with the pin, including the kotter pins and warranty cards and packing materials. If that gets me horny why should that matter?

I have the bill, the box and every piece of literature that came originally with my shadow. To others clutter, to me cool like a time capsule. Use the term all you want, it becomes a sellers credibility here in the community which is where it matters. Not because someone thinks I need their help and am incapable of buying pin unless certain words are banned and moderated. I think we have seen sellers skewered on here that mods needed to shut it down for using misleading descriptions.

Sorry - TLA?