I have a really dumb question - first time working on a system 1... The lock down bar... there isn't anything new or exciting about it, is there? Like it's pretty basic pull down the latch inside and pop the lock bar? Long story short, I think mine is frozen from rust or god knows what, but wanted to make sure before I 'manually try to unstick' it...

thx.

ok - here goes nothing. It looked exactly like my Gottlieb Wedgehead (and really not too different from my system 3 either). I was just shocked I couldn't get it opened. It does look like something might have leaked in there at one time... It's really dirty, but at least boots to 000,000 displays and has partial GI (I would have done the mods before turn on, but the guy turned it on when I got there) so I have that going for me.

I'm hoping I can follow the guides and get it fixed without a new CPU or all in one. (9th game but first time Sys 1 owner). There's an above average chance I bug you guys with questions as we go.

<Update> - well the CPU it shot, thanks rechargable battery. A large number of the bottom traces are completely gone. Also, looks like at one point, someone spilled oil on the very front of the game. good times. Gotta love bargain shopping.

I went with the all in one... I figured that would be a good move for my first system 1... Then the shipping, paypal fees, and conversion hit and it was $391. OUCH. I'm hoping these new functions are worth it... Now to repair the connectors I still need. (assuming just push out the old ones and cut/repin? I saw PBR has the new pins, but not the housing)

ok - I was missing the extraction tool for the edge connectors. I have the trifurcons/crimp tool from my other pins. I believe Steve YOung has that... Between the all in one and that order this is going to be a painful 'for love of the game' restore that'll be a fun learning experience.

Here's a stupid question... Will the machine boot if there is no playfield in it on a system 1?

Reason I'm asking - I'm in the middle of a playfield teardown - but had to vacate my pin repair area (Wife wanted an office... go figure) - so long story short - I had to move the cab to the gameroom early and the playfield is still in the garage getting fixed up. I wanted to show the new board (Pascal all in one) to my buddy that was helping me move machines - and when I turned it on, the coin door coils fired in - but nothing else happened. No displays, no sounds, nothing.

Anyone have any insight? Obviously, I can't just toss the playfield back in the test out my theory as I just got it on the rotisserie - but I wanted to make sure I didn't jostle something loose moving it between rooms.

That's what I was thinking - thanks!

Well it's not on a bench - it's in a pin... My concern is I don't want to finish clearing and touch up for the next few weeks and be all excited to put it back together and be greeted with another major issue. I'm assuming it should be fine, it just seemed odd to me - but I'd never worked on a system 1 before and know they can be finicky to say the least.

You mean DEADLY weapon, right? Lethal Weapon is a Data east

Anyone out there have a high res scanner and a Pinball Pool? I'm part way through a PF restore and with how badly I'm struggling on color matching, there is absolutely no way I have the artistic talent to redraw the artwork. I'm going to need a shot of the bonus X area and go the waterslide decal route.

I had an HP 4670 on order, but the lady on eBay never shipped it, so I'm SOL until one pops up at a decent price again. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hey gang - I have a quick question on a Gottlieb Pinball Pool I've been fighting switch matrix issues with for awhile.

I'm getting odd things in the switch matrix - for example when certain drop targets are down, it kills other switches in the same line. I thought it was one specific line (game wouldn't start because the start button was getting killed is target '2' was down) - but as I've troubleshot that one, I've noticed others (ex - sometimes 9 won't work if others are down - also killed the corresponding coin switch, etc). I've checked all diodes, repinned J6 and J7 for all switches, etc - and done more visual verifications than I can count... Any ideas where to check next?

Also - I'm using a Pascal all in 1... This is actually my second Pin Pool - the first one had a quart of oil dumped on it and I got it for very cheap... Unfortunately, it's been a lot more work to save than expected and I found another one locally with a much better playfield. The boards were shockingly ok, but I already had the all in 1 for the first, so I'm going with that for now while I recap the power supply. I don't think it's ground mod related because of that - but open to any ideas or things to look at.

Alright guys - need a little help. I have a new to me Victory (80b) which was sold clean and working, but big surprise - the guy installed a memory cap, never cleaned the akaline that leaked everywhere, and after moving the game it won't boot. (Which after seeing the board isn't a big surprise)

Looking into the various repair guides for akaline abatement on system 80 MPUs, I've decided to go the reset generator route. I've removed all the pieces that I need, did the abatement, installed the 4 jumper wires, etc... And the board still doesn't reset. (Pin 40 never goes high w/ logic probe)

Does anyone have a schematic or drawing of what the reset circuit should look like AFTER all the adjustments? I have it narrowed to a few components, but wanted to confirm it before I shotgun replace them all and get religious.

Before pic for reference... Any other tips or suggestions always welcome.

IMG_20201203_093119 (resized).jpg

Yes, that's absolutely a before pic just to show what I'm dealing with. I've already neutralized with vinegar, scraped with a wire brush/fiberglass pen, neutralized again, and cleaned with board cleaner and alcohol. It still isn't perfect, but it's far better now... my goal was to get it now booting, then give it one final clean.

What I'm trying to figure is what all traces need replaced since I'm going the reset generator route instead of replacing everything. I'm following the route described here (using a 120 + additional resistor) - https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Using_a_Reset_Generator_for_the_CPU_Reset_Section . Looking at how much of the circuit is replaced, I'm trying to figure what I'm missing and was hoping someone made a schematic of that implementation instead of just 'remove these, add these'.

I have solid connection to all the things noted in that guide and 5v/ground to the generator looks solid, but the line that goes from generator to pin 2 of Z4 doesn't seems to be triggering. It has continuity, and I've tried 2 generators just in case one was bad (bought from GPE, not eBay) and still no dice. Trying to see if it's something up/down in the circuit that's causing issues.
160704377422194409168447190955 (resized).jpg

I'm looking at the .1uf capacitors just above the 6502 as suspect... they tested ok, but still have a lot of wear. I didn't have any to replace with on hand and order is in the way.

Hey friends - It's me with the jacked Sys80b board again. Thanks in advance for any advice on the below!

So - I took the advice here and removed a few additional parts, cleaned everything more thoroughly first, and then verified all traces affected for continuity. Also bought the right reset generator from Ed instead of trying to get the type I used on a battery leaked Sys9 board with additional resistor. Regardless, the good news is - The reset circuit is working (quick low then high at power on).

Unfortunately, still not booting. Continuing down the list on Pinwiki - I've found that my IRQ (Pin 4) is stuck low, causing much of the other pins on the chip to be stuck as well. I pulled the 6502, installed a socket, and tried flipping the 6502 with another one (I have a regular sys80 board here that is working, but everything I've read says upgrading it is 'not recommended' without any idea of what all's required). Also removed and rebuilt the daughter card with all new pins since the existing ones looked to have seen better days. Confirmed none of the RIOTs get exceptionally hot after leaving it run a few minutes

Anyone have any other ideas of where to look? The Pinwiki has been a great help to get to this point, but doesn't always have a suggested place to look in case of an issue for this board. I'd consider buying a repro 80b board in the interim while I keep plugging away, but everywhere is OOS right now.

Quick question... Old system 1 tone board... It's always worked, but the sound doesn't make the tone like it's supposed to... Volume is there, but the sound almost sounds like a putt-putt-putt instead of the beep it should be. I redid the electrolytic caps, but it hasn't helped. Any idea which component to check next before I just shotgun the whole board?

Have a quick question for the hive mind... Vari targets - specifically Buck Rogers... I've adjusted and cleaned... All switches register 100%, the mech functions cleanly (pivots cleaned, switches adjusted, etc), and it's running a new MPU with lots of repinning...

Stupid thing won't reset back to zero. Usually resets well, but sometimes 1-2 steps, sometimes it makes it to 2 or 3... But never fully back to 1. Any thoughts? I've already tightened the spring 1 full turn and don't want to just brute force it home (I have it set so it's lightly returning when the coil pulls if no ball and PF against head per the manual)

Does anyone know how hot voltage needs to be to cause issues on a Sys80? I was at a customer's house and they had a game - nothing is working - etc. I noticed pretty quickly the 5v line was around 5.33, which I believe was then tripping the crowbar circuit. I've since repaired that to be a solid 5v, but am still getting some very frustrating behavior (MPU will boot, game will start, but zero switches will start). Unfortunately, I don't have another Sys80/A game to test in, and was hoping to get some insight since sys80 MPUs are a nightmare to work on between lack of diagnostics, poor connectors, etc. Do you all think 5.33 would be enough to damage the MPU beforehand? Usually, I would expect connectors in a Sys80 to start; but since it's NO switches working after the game boots, I'm suspecting switch matrix chips. I'm also wondering if it's worth just buying the Ni-Wumpf and calling it a day.

Any tips/tricks?

frisbez - I actually have the apron off so I can depress the switch and it still isn't doing anything. What's odd is everything generally works in test (controlled lights, switches, solenoids) - but when a game starts it does squat. Also - I've thrown in a NiWumpf a buddy of mine had laying around since my original post, and that boots and plays fine; but I'm trying to save the guy some money if the original MPU can be saved.

Mthomasslo - You don't understand where "these are a nightmare to work on" comes from - yet then go on to talk about the connectors and the ground mods, which kind of answers your question right there. The MPU architecture may be straightforward, but there's no diagnosis of squat on board without bench testing and either scoping or logic probing compared to similar aged machines like the excellent Bally start up sequence to assist in narrowing down issues. Also, While it's always a good idea to repin some connectors on an old Bally or WMS - it isn't an absolute starting requirement to at least troubleshoot them. Also, no other manu needs grounds completely redone because their original design was hot garbage. I think that's more than enough to call these troublesome.

If this was a full service of an old game then absolutely; you redo all the connectors, do all the ground mods, and start fresh from there. However, when you're completing a repair for a customer and time is money, it's not exactly an easy thing to say "well I have to do this 5 hours of work before I even try to fix your problem". I was hoping this behavior sounded somewhat familiar to someone here that could point in a more specific direction than "do the Gottlieb needful".