The lock holding the display panel broke on my Robo-War. Trying to rig in a new lock is proving to be a real PITA. Does anyone have any solutions/a specific lock set that works with that “swing down” style of backbox on these games?

There’s not much in a system 1 game, so start with the basics: are the ground mods complete, and are there any issues with the card edge connectors?

Nice find. Victory is a great shooters game. Kinda reminds me of White Water, where you have to make your way "through the race" instead of "down the river." Fun progressive rules.

I'm almost certain you're referring to the "vitrigraph" playfields. TX-Sector had a run of playfields with that as well with different artwork, and Diamond Lady used it. I think I recall hearing a Trudeau interview someplace that it was a cost saving measure? I'm not entirely sure. But it reminds me of what Hardtop is doing now. Almost the same thing. If it's anything like the new hardtops, that should be a good indication that hardtops will wear far better than standard playfields do.

Must’ve been reading my mind. I’ve been thinking about this lately. I can’t help but think that the UV produced from the florescent bulb is what contributes to a lot of the faded translites as well.

A couple of questions: I'm putting in a new translight in my Robo-War. It originally had... None, believe it or not. Just a piece of paper printed and literally taped to the glass that slides into the channel. It's missing all the trim. What kind of trim did gottlieb use for the System 80b translights? Also, what kind of lift channel did they use? I'd like to put together some parts, and I want to be prepared before sending in my email to pbresource.

Side note, anyone have a picture of the kind of locking mechanism gottlieb used for the "swing out" display panel? Again, mine is missing ALL the hardware, and I'm preparing to fabricate something if I can't find a drop-in replacement.

Thanks!

Last I checked, a lot was out of stock. It doesn't have to be "the right" trim, just trim that works, honestly. I'll use generic stuff if I have to. I'm more concerned about the lift channel. I want to make sure the lift trim is deep enough.

Yea, I just need the 3 pieces, and the lift channel piece that runs along the bottom. I appreciate you looking, I'll check with steve first, since I have to order a bunch of other stuff from him anyway.

Thanks again! I'll definitely let you know. Worst case scenario, I'll be attending a TON of pinball shows this spring, and I'll be bound to find what I need there if need be. No worries there.

Now, the lock situation is a different story... If anyone has any methods as to what they use to replace the locks on this style of backbox, I'd love to see it. I've tried a few of mine, and I haven't been able to get any of them to work properly.

If you can slide the coil sleeves out from the solenoids, then they’re fine. If you can’t slide the sleeves out, common school of thought is that the coil has overheated and needs replacing, but I’m too cheap to do that. I’ve found that some spray lubricant frees up the coil sleeve so it can be replaced without having to replace the whole (almost always) still good solenoid.

I generally only replace coils when a winding or lug is hopelessly broken. Coils do not weaken with age otherwise.

Not to change the subject, but I had a random shower thought: did Gottlieb use flash lamps in any game prior to their System 80B generation? I know certainly not in any System 1 games, but I can’t recall them being used in any System 80 or 80A games either. What was their first game to use them?

Nice find. Seems like literally every Robo War has a cracked/broken lower pop bumper cap. Mine was the same way. Marco's generic white Gottlieb pop bumper body fits it, even though it says it doesn't--assuming you don't order from Pbresource.

After checking the fuse, check the pop bumper driver board. Pretty sure this game only has one.

Pinball Resource has all the ROMS to Gottlieb games. Just ask for the latest revision.

I’m 90% sure they’re stamped in the playfield right around the lower left outlane. They’re also a sticker on the perpendicular part of the ball apron on the lower left outlane area too, though that’s usually been worn down from the ball rolling over it. I’m sure there are other locations, but those are the first that come to mind.

I have a NOS translite in my Robo-War I wanted to preserve, so I took the JodyG approach and grabbed a 6500k LED replacement. Here was my approach:

I clipped out the ballast and starter, and unceremoniously tossed them in the trash.

Since the replacement LEDs use raw 120 VAC from the connector, and only require it from one end, I left the original wiring mostly in place, and used a wire nut to connect the two clipped ones from the ballast—so that power is routed to the left-hand side. Nothing was left connected to the right side of the lamp holder.

This kept most of the existing wiring in place and makes for a clean install. No other modifications were necessary. Everything else was untouched.

Overall, I think this is a mandatory conversion for these games. My only qualm is that I think 6500k is too blue. I’ll probably grab a 5 or 4000k replacement to emulate the look of it being backlit by incandescent bulbs.

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Awesome tip! I did this, and the contrast in the artwork is significantly better. Probably doesn’t need a warmer bulb now.

I also got odd readings from the connector (around 138VAC), but I figured it’d be fine. I’m not concerned. So far so good.

I'd love to see custom ROMs for most of the System 3 games. Even if it's simply to equalize the random awards.

Does anyone have a hardware solution to the backbox lock for the 80B heads that have the "swing forward" displays (i.e. Robo-War, TX-Sector, Excalibur)? My hardware is mostly all missing, and I've been having a hard time finding a lock/cam that works to hold everything together. Currently, I just play the game with the display hanging, and it drives me nuts.

I've already reached out to Steve for an OEM option, but non exist.

Recently brought home a super clean TX-Sector. Got it set up, played a few games, turned it off, and flipped it back on a little while later to find that I no longer have sound.

I noticed the LED on the sound board doesn’t flash. Game boots and plays just fine, just no sound.

I also checked the 5v on the CPU and it was 7.5 (YIKES). I tried adjusting the voltage with the pot on the board, but it was completely unresponsive. I’m venturing to guess this is keeping the sound board from booting.

Anyway, I bought a replacement voltage regulator board (and an auxiliary voltage regulator board just for completeness).

Game hasn’t been run for an extended period of time with the voltage out of spec like this, but what are the odds I damaged the sound board permanently? Is there anything I should check in the interim?

Edit: ground mods have been done. At least, the mods in the lower cabinet.

Thanks guys!

FIXED!! I wanted to follow up on the repair and diagnostic procedure just in case anyone else runs into a similar problem. Credit goes to a very helpful pinsider, yfz450, who reached out to me and went well beyond the call of duty to help me get this going again. Sound board issues seem difficult to diagnose, so I want to share my procedure in case anyone else finds themselves in a similar situation.

Problem: 5v Power supply was sending too high a voltage through the boards. Soundboard failed to boot. Game had no sound.
First repair: Replaced both the 5v power supply (A2) AND the Aux Power Supply (A5) (which also contains the amplifier circuit). Verified all voltages, all were in spec.

Outcome: Still no sound, however, the heartbeat LED on the soundboard indicated it was booting now.

I swapped the soundboard from TX-Sector into my Robo War. The board worked find in Robo-War, so I know that there wasn't an issue with the sound board. I even flip flopped the ROMs around, so I knew the ROMs were good as well (i.e. kept the TX Sector ROMs in the soundboard while installed in Robo-War.) However, still no sound when installed in TX.

Moving forward: Z13 on the driverboard sends the soundcall signals to the soundboard. I dug out my trusty logic probe and probed the pins. In attract mode, it tested: Pin 1: high, Pin 2: low, Pin 3: High, Pin 4: Low (this pattern continued across all pins). I compared this to my Robo-War: Same logic levels. I swapped out driver boards just to be sure, and It didn't change the situation in TX. Still no sound.

Moving farther upstream: Z27 and Z31 on the MPU board feeds signals to the driver board to generate sound call information. Again, pulled out my logic probe. In attract mode the logic levels were:

Z27

Pin 1: High
2: low
3: high
4: low
5 high
6: low
7: low
8: low
9: blank (no signal, neither high nor low)
10: low
11: high
12: low
13: high
14: high

Z31 (which is a SN7408N)

1-7: all low
8-13: all low
14: high

These tested identically to the chips in my working Robo-War as well. When starting a game, and hitting targets, pins 8-12 can be seen pulsing through the probe--indicating that calls are being generated.

So, what now? I've verified that the soundboard and the ROMs are working. I've verified that the driverboard is working, and I've also verified that the MPU is working. Maybe sage the game to chase out the spirits and electrical gremlins?

CONNECTORS! It has to be the connectors, right?
Nope. Connnectors are clean, tight, and untarnished.

Ground problems?
Nope. All the ground mods are done.

Downtrodden and exhausted, I ended up switching out the new Aux Power board I got into Robo War. LO AND BEHOLD: No sound in Robo War! I finally narrowed it down.

Chalk this up to the hardest lesson I've had in a while: Don't assume a board is good just because it's new. The replacement A5 Aux Power Supply Board was a dud right out of the box. I reinstalled the original Aux Board, and all is right with the world again.

My best guess as to what happened: That $hitty potentiometer took a dump on the 5v power supply and caused the sound board to fail to boot. I replaced both power supplies thinking I'd future proof it. Aux board was a dud, and didn't need to be replaced.

In a way, I'm glad this happened. System 80B repairs aren't documented too much, and I didn't really understand the platform as well as other platforms like WPC or System 11 so this was an excellent exercise in understanding it.

Achievement unlocked!

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Robo-War isn’t just one of the best System 80B games, I think it’s easily one of the best solid state games from that whole era. A true players game with heaps of strategy.

It’s dead simple too. You won’t have to pull the playfield much on it once it’s gone through. Make sure the drops all score and reset properly.

The left ramp shot isn’t designed to be makeable from a trapped ball on the right flipper. It needs a rebound shot with gathered momentum. Otherwise, multiball will be too easily obtained.

Enjoy it!

Are System 80B games particularly sensitive to switch cleanliness? I have a stubborn standup that doesn’t register well at all. I’ve cleaned it a million times with paper, then windex, then finally in a last ditch effort—metal polish (as to not damage whatever gold flashing that may or may not actually be there). Every time I clean it, the switch works flawlessly for a few hours, but then it stops again.

The switch contacts don’t really look any worse than any other switches I’ve seen. I’ll likely just replace with a new standup, but it’s curious that all the cleaning I do to it doesn’t really help.

TX Sector is the game. The target in question is the single standup behind the pops. No other issues with switches, and it springs to life every time I clean it, but I’m guessing it corrodes again, and stops working?

I’m partly thinking that the gold plating may have worn away, and cleaning it cleans the corrosion off yielding a temporary fix until it corrodes again. I’ve never had an issue like this with any other game. It’s definitely not a switch matrix or connector problem.

Never use flexstone on any game that is a solid state game, regardless of year. For your Cleopatra, just use a business card, folded paper, dollar bill, etc.

Of course as soon as I sell mine!! Ugh.

Does anyone know what Gottlieb game was the first to feature the "status report" by holding a flipper? Robo-War has one, but it doesn't look like TX-Sector has one (can someone please verify this?). Do any System 80B games prior to Robo-War have one, or any games after Robo-War that *don't* have one? I know ROM space was tight then, so I'm just curious if it might have also been game specific.

Does Diamond Lady have one? It would be interesting if it did.

I know Bone Busters has one, but as far as I can tell, Bad Girls does not--so I'm thinking the status report was implemented into 80B titles on a per game basis?

I don't think I've ever seen a Striker before! Looks like a really really cool game, and I'm not even a big football/soccer fan. I hope you'll be able to do a youtube video on it when you're finished!

This is what I liked so much about the Gottlieb 80(A/B) games—and honestly Gottlieb in general. They may catch a lot of flak, but they did some really cool experimental things with their designs.

Another vote for the replacement power supply. $50 is cheap insurance to get something that will guarantee a solid and high quality 5v supply to the circuit boards.

I ran into a failed pot on my 5v supply on TX-Sector, and the game booted and played, but it absolutely wrecked havoc on the sound board. Not worth the risk moving forward imo.

There’s a few things you could look into:

If the reset board is present, pull that out. It’s not needed, and eliminates a point of complexity and failure.

Ground mods: have they been done?

Boot the game and enter switch test and check the trough switches. Gottliebs of this era will start a game, but sit and do nothing if it can’t detect a ball in the trough. If the solenoid is working, but the ball is getting stuck, you might need to file the trough rails down a little. I’ve seen a few games where the ball will wear little divots in the ball trough and get stuck.

As long as all the white grounds are grouped and tied together to the transformer bracket, I think the only really mandatory ground mod you’ll want to do is the one that doubles the ground on the interconnect cable. I think by Genesis, that mod was already done at the factory, but double check anyway.

I’m a big proponent of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” So if your game is working well, I’d say play and enjoy it. The more you fiddle, the more you risk causing more problems.

I never really trust them, but yea. Dumb simple. I really hate the idea of a 10 cent potentiometer being the only thing from sending overvoltage through the game, however. Twice I’ve had issues with it causing booting problems, one caused the MPU to not boot, the other, it kept the soundboard from booting. I don’t mind the idea of proactively changing them out for a more stable/modern/efficient power supply.

Do you have a link to the pot you use? How do you adjust and dial in the voltage in the game without sending too much to the boards?

Is the game teleporting the ball correctly when the shots are lit for teleport, but *not* lit for lock? The game requires 3 balls. Upon startup, if it senses 3 balls in the trough, the game will never have a teleport light lit, and a shot to any of the 3 teleport locations will only hold the ball to stage it for teleportation. If any of the switches for the 2 saucers in each teleport location are flaky, the game might lose track of the balls and think only 2 are in play, not allowing locks to occur.

Reach out to Mayfair Amusements. They stock originals for a lot of 80B games, and are based in New York.

Not sure if this has ever been posted, but here’s a video of a rare System 3 prototype Bad Girls. Tell-tale signs: display animation for match sequence, different attract mode, thin flippers, and back panel lamps flash during attract.

Pretty cool!

I'm having a pretty consistent switch detection problem on a lot of switches on my TX-Sector. I know it's not a matrix problem, as cleaning them *very briefly* brings them back to life. When I measure continuity with the switches out of the game, the ohms are very high. I won't even get a buzz on my meter when the switches are closed. It's almost like there's a film or something blocking the flow of electricity? It's very weird. I was able to replace one of the affected standup targets with a new one from pinball resource, and it works perfectly now, but currently, my drop target switches are all starting to fail in the same way: Slowly losing continuity. So now, the bank will never reset because the game doesn't see that the switch is closed when the target is down.

My question is twofold:

1) Is it possible that the gold flashing is worn away creating a continuity problem? Can this be repaired without replacing switches? Could I use something like brasso to clean the contacts safely?

2) Worst case scenario, does anyone know the part number used for the switches in a drop target assembly for 80B? My gut is just telling me to wholesale replace the switches all with new ones to put the problem to bed forever.

Thanks for the reply and advice. This is what I was probably going to do. Looks like most of the switches in the assemblies are sealed in a solid plastic unit, as opposed to the more traditional Bakelite sandwich spacer, so blade replacement isn’t possible in my case. Instead, Is it possible to “drill out” the contacts in the existing switch stack and replace with new ones?

Is there any reason that pop bumper driver boards weren't used for slingshots? I assume there was sort of cost consideration at the least, but I sort of imagine that slings are more likely to fail locked on than a pop bumper to a degree (i.e. when a ball gets trapped behind the rubber)? Has anyone ever tried converting their slings to operate on a pop bumper driver board?