(Topic ID: 73213)

Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)


By Gerry

5 years ago



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#1943 1 year ago

I picked up two Black Holes kind of sight unseen. I did get a photo of them sitting on a pallet without legs. Anyway, I bought them because the price was reasonable. My goal was to restore one as a Black Hole and the second was going to become a donor pin for an Eclipse project I have been working on. Anyway, when they arrive I found them in decent shape. One playfield was pretty good as was one of the backglasses. This is perfect for my plans. My only problem is both cabinets need the press board bottoms replaced. They swelled up from water exposure. My question is how do I do that? I am thinking I just slice off the rear lower inch of back of the cabinet. That way I can just slide out the bad board and replace with a new one. Any thoughts? Is the old one glued in? Thanks in advance.

4 weeks later
#2037 1 year ago

This post isn't going to be popular with a lot of you but it is the absolute truth. The Gottlieb designers didn't provide enough wiggle room on some of the fused devices. This is most apparent on coils. Try using a 2 1/2 amp sb fuse. I had the same problem. If fuse holds you are good to go. If it doesn't you have a different problem.

#2044 1 year ago

Sorry if I missed it above. Do we know what that fuse does? I have a Roller Disco which is about as close as you can get.

#2046 1 year ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

Sorry if I missed it above. Do we know what that fuse does? I have a Roller Disco which is about as close as you can get.

I had some time to read some older posts on the subject. It seems like it is your drop target bank. Checking the diode is good advice. My guess it is that or a fuse on the jagged edge.

#2050 1 year ago
Quoted from PhillyBilly:

So I put a 2.5 A in I’ve left the game on and it’s not locking on and the banks are working well and no blown fuse yet. The only problem I’m seeing now with the 2.5 A in is it might take 3-5 times to turn on fully. If it doesn’t I’ll hear some strange noises and the slam tilt or knocker, knocks but it turns after a few on and offs and and works great so far. I’m fine with having to click it on a few times as long as it consistently works

That fuse should not have anything to do with turning the game on. I would check the voltages on your power supply. Also, how do the pins look on the cable going from the power supply to the MPU? If it they look iffy replace them or just buy a new cable.

#2058 1 year ago
Quoted from LGFAutos:

Hi All,
Is it ok to have 72Vac coming from the small transformer to the power supply board, will the power supply board be able to handle the 3 extra volts or do I need to drop the voltage slightly so it's 69Vac.
Any help would be great.

Hello,

Is this for your System 1? As a rule, transformers are seldom the problem. They just normally work. Testing voltage on them is a little challenging. without knowing the details I would say you are well within specs.

#2085 1 year ago
Quoted from LGFAutos:

Forgot to mention I have rebuilt the psb so the diodes at CR6 to CR9 are new and I have tested them and all are ok

Lots of things can break on a System 1 power supply. They are not that hard to fix but a new replacement is cheap these days. I thinking you still have a power supply problem. I would recommend just replacing it.

3 weeks later
#2137 1 year ago
Quoted from schmittyz:

I have a count-down and the tilt switch isn't registering in gameplay or in test. I traced it back to the connector with a dmm successfully.
Look like a bad board?
Thanks for any help.

Is the signal getting past the connector? It could just be a dirty or bad pin. It is a Gottlieb after all.

3 months later
#2388 1 year ago
Quoted from desertT1:

No worries. Seems like I’m in need of some sort of flow chart of areas to check for voltage or logic.

Just curious, did this game ever work since you have had it? I see you have several pins in your collection but systems 80s are very unique. These things are not all that hard to work on once you can establish a baseline. First thing I do is replace the filter caps if they haven’t been before. Then I look at every pin in every edge connector. The ground mods aren’t needed if your pins are all good. If fact, doing grounds mods before checking the pins might just complicate things. People might disagree with me but it is the truth. These games were designed to gound through the wire harness and they will if the pins are in good shape. You can always do the ground mods after you get it sorted out but I would not recommend that as a first step. I assume your power supply checks out so now that just leaves 3 possible problems (the slam switches, MPU and Driver board). The slam switches are easy to short out and test. Now that leaves you with just 2 possibilities. At this point I would just buy another set of boards for testing. You can always resell them after you isolate your problem or just keep them as spares. If you are like me, you are going nuts about now. Just buy the replacement boards and save yourself any further aggravation.

#2391 1 year ago
Quoted from desertT1:

It worked when my friend got it home. He was doing something by the slings (with it on) touched something and then the game went crazy. I’m assuming he connected high voltage to switch inputs because it fried z12 and z14, I think. I have replaced those two with progress each time.

So has the game been moved from your friends house to yours? If so, was the head removed? I just want to make sure your pins are ok before you do any other troubleshooting? Edge connector pins are awful. If your pins are all shinny and unbroken you should be ok there. If they have issues they need to be addressed before moving foward. You may have already fixed your problem but can't see the result because a bad pin. Are you willing to buy a replacement board set? That will make things much easier for you. If your pins are good the new board set will get Circus up and running again. Most of us system 80 guys have an extra set sitting around for just that reason.

#2393 1 year ago
Quoted from desertT1:

I have cleaned all contact areas with eraser and that was a noticeable change. The head was removed to move it, but it never was repaired at his house, so no change in what it was doing there compared to what it is doing now. Slam tilt has been bypassed, but connectors have not been done yet.

If the pins are original they are likely shot. You don't have to replace everything but everything south of where the battery is / was needs addressed. To make things more fun the pins very obsolete. Do you have a source for these?

#2395 1 year ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Not sure I follow what “south of the battery” means.
Looking at this sequence it’s weird because my displays come on for a short time, but the coin coin accept relay doesn’t power up.[quoted image]

Please see photo. These are the connectors you should be checking. These need to be a 100% good before you can proceed with any troubleshooting.

system 80 (resized).jpg
#2401 1 year ago

Hi Guys, I’m 300 miles away from my Black Hole and I need to remake the bottom of Black Hole cabinet for a friend. Can somebody please tell me the diameter of the speaker hole. The machine in question is missing the bottom board altogether. Thanks in advance.

#2403 1 year ago
Quoted from TwoHeartedMale:

just cut it to fit any speaker you want. you have all the freedom in the world.

That is very true but the goal is to make it look like nothing was done. That being said, I "phoned a friend". The speaker holes are 5" and there are two of them.

2 weeks later
#2427 1 year ago

I agree. It is a great tool but not really a long term solution. Those little test leads don’t have a lot of bite. I use something similar now for testing but my connecting components are insulated alligator clips. I think it is a fine piece of test equipment.

#2430 1 year ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

A friend has a haunted house that only makes one sound. I had tested his sound card in my machine and it works ok. Seems that the issue is either wiring or in the CPU board. The sounds had been working. I'm going to try his CPU board in my game first. From looking at the schematics it looks like z31 7408 z27 7404 or u6 6532 chips could be at fault. Has anyone run into a similar problem?

Check all the pins on J4 of the mpu, J1 and J5 of the driver board and J1 on the sound board. Tired worn out pins can cause all sorts of problems.

2 weeks later
#2483 12 months ago

Contact Clive at the Coin Op Caldron. He does great work.

4 months later
13
#2651 7 months ago

Finally got around to converting my Roller Disco over to black light LEDs in an attempt to recreate the original black light prototype. If memory serves, the prototype had a full leagth black light fixture on either side of the playfield. These were removed before final production but the the black light inked playfields were already finished. I used the more expensive 5 led black light LEDs from Titan to achieve the look as well as glow bands and a glow ball. The camera has trouble showing the look correctly but you get the idea.

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#2660 7 months ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

I have a tech issue with my Night Moves and I hope I can get some insight from the team. Here's what the lower rollover R-O-C-K lights look like at the start of each ball:
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
The R light works, but it behaves opposite of all the others. The O-C-K lights start lit and, when their switches are activated, they go out. The R starts unlit and when its switch is activated, it turns on.
What's up with that? Is there a dipswitch or something I should adjust?

Did you put LEDs in these locations? A lot or pins don’t like them in the roll overs areas. If so, switch it back to old school bulbs and see it the problem goes away.

#2665 7 months ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

I tried an incandescent bulb and a different LED bulb in the same socket and got the same result. I also tried the same LED bulb in a different socket and it works fine. What's really weird is that during attract mode and other light shows, it behaves fine - it only functions in reverse during gameplay.

That is strange. Gottlieb did some weird things wiring wise and Night Moves is an obscure game. Maybe another Night Moves owner can chime in. This might be normal operation.

#2666 7 months ago
Quoted from pinball_ric:

So i've got some additional info on this issue I'm having. Apparently the 2 insert (lamp 34) will turn off when lamp 45 turns on. This is true even if lamp 34 is supposed to be on, it will still turn off if lamp 45 turns on. I put the oscilliscope on 2 of the leads on Q35 (the transistor for lamp 34) and in attract mode I can see the transistor turning on and off. Same in test mode. I can even pause the test in test mode and see the transistor turn on/off. Or at least i can see the 2 pins go high at the same time and then back to low. Perhaps I'm not understanding things right there.
Either way how could it be possible for this lamp to be on all the time except when lamp 45 turns on? How would lamp 45 turning on turn off lamp 34? If these lamps were on the same IC i'd suspect the IC but they're on totally different chips. I'm well past my current electronics knowledge here and hoping a more seasoned vet can enlighten me.

Just curious. Does this problem exist if all the bulbs in question are incondecent bulbs?

#2670 7 months ago
Quoted from pinball_ric:

So i put incandescents back in. Actually didn't have to unsolder the wires since i rerouted the wire when i changed the lamp before. Actually gave me room to bend the bracket enough to change lamps. Regardless it didn't change anything. Same behavior with no LEDs in the machine. At this point I'm pretty sure Q35 is bad but I don't understand why the insert turns off when Q46 turns on. Below are some images of my readings with the scope. I can't figure out how to comment around the pictures so I'll just describe them below as well.
Edit: Oh one thing I forgot to mention is that using my DMM I get values within spec and that match other transitors for Q35. Can it still be bad and read the correct values in diode test?

Images

Q36 off
Q36 on (collector goes low when base goes high)
Q35 off (both collector and base low. This is also what it looks like when Q46 is "active")
Q35 on (base goes high and collector goes up slightly. I assume from leakage?)

Channel 1 Config
Position: Top
Setting: 2 volts/div
Pin: Base

Channel 2 Config
Position: Bottom
Setting: 5 volts/div
Pin: Emitter

[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Ok - This is what I would do. Transistors can be bad and test fine on the multimeter. They are cheap so I would just replace any in the circuits that you are having issues with. If you tested your old school bulbs in all the sockets in question at once your problem is most likely in the transistors. If you tested the sockets one at a time and then returned the LEDs after it passed you might still have an LED issue. Gottliebs hate having LEDs in certain sockets. It causes all sorts of strange lighting problems. These problems are most prevalent in the OEM driver board. After market boards are less problematic.

#2710 7 months ago
Quoted from gweempose:I cannot figure out how to turn off the attract mode on Mars God of War. According to the manual, it should be switch #30. Here's a photo of my DIP switches as well as the relevant page in the manual. What am I doing wrong?
[quoted image][quoted image]

Check the dip switch with your meter from the rear of the board. They break all the time. Yours might be broken in the on position.

#2721 7 months ago
Quoted from ElCid95:

Still looking for some assistance with my problem. Anyone have any suggestions on how to fix my game?

If you're looking at your driver board the lower left connector goes to the sound card if I remember correctly. Try reseating that. Bad pins can cause all sorts of problems. I would re-pin any connector associated with the sound card. If the connector is solid your sound card likely died. It might not be worth fixing depending on what failed. No worries, the aftermarket card is cheap enough these days and can be found at this website. https://www.flippp.fr/pifx1.php

#2723 7 months ago
Quoted from ElCid95:

The pins look ok, so I'm seriously considering getting the all-in-one board since it has lots of cool features too.

Keep in mind that the all in one board's built in sound card doesn't work for your game. You would still need to purchase the stand alone sound card.

1 week later
#2773 7 months ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Every once in a while I will turn on my Genie and the game has reverted back to factory defaults. It is running on a Ni-Wumpf board. What could be causing this?

Your batteries are probably getting weak. The after market boards seem to eat them up quick.

#2775 7 months ago
Quoted from gweempose:

I thought one of the benefits of the Ni-Wumpf board is that all the settings are stored in flash memory?

My bad, didn’t realize it was NI-Wumpf. Rotten Dog still uses the battery packs.

#2781 7 months ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

I have a friend who has a Jacks to Open that is constantly racking up points 1000 at a time. Seems like a switch that is almost closed and vibrating. Does anyone know what switch on a JtO scores 1000 points?
Thanks,
Alan

I don’t but that is an easy fix. Just pull off the glass and start up a game. Hit all the switches manually until you find the problem child.

#2812 7 months ago

That is odd. Were the power supplies that failed ever rebuilt? I can see original untouched power supplies both failing but rebuilt ones should be good for another 20 years or so.

#2826 7 months ago
Quoted from Pinballjimmy:

Hi, I've just acquired my first solid state Gottlieb. Its a Night Moves. The issue I'm having is when 2 balls end up in the outhole at the same time like multiball double drain or tilt the outhole solenoid energizes long enough to allow both balls to go to the trough. This leaves the outhole opto beam closed and the machine thinks there is only one ball in the game. The outhole will not kick the ball to the shooter lane and game cannot continue. In solenoid test mode the outhole solenoid energizes a much shorter period and only allows one ball through to the trough. Any ideas how to fix this?

Night Moves has an optical sensor? That surprises me but I never had one. My guess is you have a mechanical switch that needs adjusting where ball 2 sits in the ball trough. Just to be safe check all the switches in the trough area. One of them is likely your problem.

1 week later
#2874 6 months ago
Quoted from jjoravec:

My Sys80b pcb went dead so I decided to try one of the mypinballs Sys80b replacements. I have it all hooked up, but noticed a difference, on the right side of the pcb there is only one connector whereas the original board had two. What do I do with the extra connector?
Thanks,[quoted image]

What game do you have?

#2883 6 months ago

Which cap do you think is bad? The big one or the smaller one at C2? I think C2 is the problem and the smoke stuck to the larger one. Do you have a meter with a cap tester? Just to be safe, replace both.

4 months later
#3099 67 days ago
Quoted from Andreas:

On my joker poker one of the aces and one of the kings givs lot of points and then resets the droptargets even though all are not down. It gives 2010 points when dropping and then ends up on 7010 when resetting that bank. No diffrent with groundmods done. Its the far right acetarget and the king furthest down. What chip on the mpu should I look into and meassure? Really odd
Cheers

Check the little diode boards on the bottom of the playfield. My guess one of them is bad. Common problem on the old Gottliebs.

2 weeks later
#3126 52 days ago
Quoted from dmieczko:

Gottlieb Pinball Pool - will only accept one credit. Dip switch settings are for 15 max. Is this a bad RAM chip, or could it be something else? Curious where to start looking...

OEM board? Those dip banks fail all the time. Check to see if it is actually working with your meter. My guess is you just have a failed dip switch bank.

1 month later
#3154 13 days ago
Quoted from phototamer:

Had some troubles with the 5v power supply on my Robowar some time ago. Found this little gem perfect for keeping the supplied voltage to the boards at exactly 5.2 volts regardless of load.
Price is around 5 or 6 dollars on Ebay and comes with over load protection and fully controlled output from 2 to 12 volts.
I am in the middle of restoring my robowar and remember how I solved all my troubles with this one.
The module is sitting on the original, dead , 5v power supply, for convenience.
Will try and find a link , but you can look it under switching power supply modules[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

The idea is very sound but they are cheap foreign made boards with a high failure rate. I would recommend replacing your power supply or fixing the OEM one. I don't think you'll be happy in the long term with this repair. It will unlikely hurt anything but my luck with these hasn't been good. One day it will just stop working. Not trying to be negative, just trying to save you some pain later on down the road.

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