Good Morning Pinsiders!

I picked up a Gold Wings with some problems.. and I'm on the fence about the machine. It is very fun, but I can't play when something is not 100% as it drives my OCD nuts. If it is something fairly simple, no harm no foul as they say. My biggest problem is working 50-60 hours a week in healthcare I have zero time to be picking up another problem child nor do I wish to invest what extremely little time I have becoming a System 80 technician. There is literately a backlog of things for me to fix at home that is months log it not longer without adding to that pile.

If you can point me in the right direction, I'd be grateful.

1) The 500,000 light does not come on under the aircraft carrier on the right side. It does not light during lamp test, attract mode nor during gameplay. The scoring however works fine. The MPU is seeing the roll over and adds the regular score or 500,000 when conditions are meet (along with the siren going off when 500,000 is struck) A digital volt meter shows a very low flickering voltage below one volt which maybe just oscillations from the other playfield lights going on/off. Led or #44 bulb, no difference.

2) The top left lane roll over does not register during play or test. If I pull the 2 balls out and run the switch test from the menu it comes up "All Switches Open" as it should. Triggering the switch does nothing in gameplay or testing. What is interesting, if I trigger any other switch in the test, that switch will stay up on the display till a different is triggered, is this normal? One would think it would go back to "Open" again but doesn't.

3) The loop the loop bonus build up does not work. The switch tests fine for the entry but the bonus and special light there never come on during gameplay. However during lamp test and attract mode the lights clearly function! During gameplay they are dead as a doornail nor is any bonus awarded.

4) Something curious- During lamp test #2 light will pulse the siren, is this normal?

That is all I can think of off the top my head. I have examined the connectors and they are all clean. At some point the mainboard has been sent out for work as it has a tag on it indicating that a slam switch mod had been done to it and it has a VRAM for high score. The watchdog board was disconnected, which I'm told is ok.

Oh, and where can I find the checksum for the game? I picked up a manual but didn't see it listed but the whole manual reads like something for a Winnnebago Lesharo, in French. Can't make heads nor tails of the wiring diagram.

Gary
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I have plugged and unplugged all connectors which changed nothing and was told ground mods were done in the lower cabinet, which I have verified as being done.

I'm not sure I'm keeping it, was told at time of purchase it was 100%. I paid the asking price, with that in mind. If it is something simple, then no harm, no foul. If it is going to take hours of troubleshooting or board repair then I need to have that discussion with the seller, whom I have been in touch with and wish to give the benefit of the doubt.

I know little about System 80's aside from the ground mods seem popular and a few mentions in TNT videos when discussing bullet-proofing machines. Reviewed them since and if the machines stays I'll do that after.

Would checking continuity of wiring for the 500,000 light or roll over switch to its terminus be of some help? I just need to know where to look. Everything else seems to work fine, no display flicker, etc.

Follow up- Spent some time troubleshooting when I should be replacing an alternator!

Problem #2 and #3 look to be effectively fixed as I found a bad solder joint or two and fixed them. #4 is normal I think as Gottlieb will use a lamp driver circuit to drive non-lamp items.

#1 I think is a bad driver board. I have continuity from the 500,000 lamp base to pin #9 of the connector but there is no output. Thoughts? How do I isolate one lamp driver line to determine if it is the driver board or MPU?

Not sure, the former owner (who has been very gracious through this) indicates it is fairly new. Have to wait and see if anyone can chime in how to determine where the problem lies.

No voltage at the socket wiring, socket and bulb are therefore eliminated and there is continuity from the socket base to pin #9 of the driver board.

Updated- Socket and bulb tested fine, braid to socket is fine, tapping center of bulb to ground (done briefly) lights bulb in socket.

So were back to ground not being provided by driver board to light lamp.

My mistake on how bulbs are driven on this pinball platform, sorry about that.

I rechecked continuity from pin #9 to the 500,000 point socket center pin, all is good there.

Its a fun game, I have managed to get the loop special twice and extra ball a few times. I find the tight playfield to my taste, it really keeps you on your toes! Maddening trying to get the multi-ball release shot when the lane lights up, I'm not anywhere near close to perfecting the shot yet.

Thank you for the tip on the switch "reset"

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Now that I have most stuff working played a game with the Mrs. last night, she said she saw the attraction. It is a little fast and tight for her tastes, she really likes the EM's. Me too but it all depends in what you are in the mood for on any given day and I like the variety.

Did a deep dive into the System 80 PinWiki this morning to understand how the lamp circuit works. Were going to try and swap out the driver board as a fairly quick tests but at least I know how the circuit works now and may pickup a meter to test a few items this weekend if I have any spare time.

It is, I just noticed I have the wrong display mask for mine.

I think back one page someone mentioned doing ramps.

Question for Gold Wings owners- Do the two cockpit lights work? I just noticed them when cleaning some connections and they don't come on during gameplay or light testing. I watched some videos on Youtube and didn't see them come on in those games either. Something that was never implemented?

L18, they are in the test menu under lamp and solenoid tests.

The missile flashes on mine during spinner operation but no cockpit.

The seller is sending me a driver board that was to go with the machine, he swapped them by accident when troubleshooting his other System 80. No sense picking at this driver board if another will be here in a day or two.

Ok, follow up to my questions!

1) The cockpit lights have to be 44's! I was examining the wiring and noted the sockets are wired in SERIES. Popped the LED's out and popped in a set of 44's and we are back in business. I tried 47's and it just smirked at me. 44's worked perfect. Problem solved.

2) The 500,000 light now working! 100% the driver board. I swapped in a Ni-Wumpf driver board and the 500,000 lamp was doing its thing.. but other ugly problems arose.

As soon as I installed the driver board on boot up the lower part of the display was slightly scrambled. This made me cringe and I turned everything back off, rechecked connections and even took some jumper wires with gator clips and made sure the boards had good grounds to each other. After several minutes the problem abated but would return if the machine was off for a bit. I happened to remove the plexi from the display to check the connection there and noted a very ugly looking cap. I think that is going to be replaced next and possible cause of cranky display.

Edit- I let it run for a bit and the display does it all the time now, I think it is best to shut down and leave off till caps are changed.

The other problem is when playing for a fairly short period of time some of the playfield insert lights would get dim.

Release, 100,000, 500,000, Capture and a few others would simply loose their brightness but still work. I checked all connections again, wiggled the harness, examined the bulb sockets with no change noted. Popped the old driver board back in and *poof* problem gone.

At this point in the program planning on doing final ground mods to circuit boards, replace the caps on the display board and check/replace the transistor on the driver board for the 500,000.

What say you on the garbled display? Cap? Did not start till the new board was installed, I'm assuming just coincidence it acted up the same time the board was swapped..
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I think you are right, still prudent to replace all the caps on the board. I'm running into a hell of a time in my other hobby (vintage computers) with caps just failing sitting in the box! 20 years is a generous estimate on their life span as they just dry out.

Any other thoughts about the jumpy display? I'm almost starting to regret this, far more work than I have time and money for at the moment.

Waiting on parts..

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I'm thinking about one of your Gold Wings ramp, have to fix the stupid game first before I pump another dime into it though. I might set it on fire and save myself a great deal of aggravation.

The two "939" Rockwell chips drive the two displays and is what I would suspect if everything else looks good. Frankly for the cost of the two chips you could pickup a good used display and be done with it. Just make sure the voltages are good on the board though, odds of both chips acting up are slim in my opinion but possible. I just got my Gold Wings display working correct and I'm picking up a spare for good measure, let me know if there is any readings I can do for you.

FYI looking at your pictures it caught my eye the cap has been replaced, is it the correct value? Looks far smaller than the original.

My only thought is to check the slam switch on the coin door and make sure it isn't tripped, just had that problem with my Spring Break.

Mine was sensitive enough that the balls launching and striking the drop targets would set it off. Puzzling till I figured it out. Had the meter on the CPU board, watching the 5.0 voltage and trying to get it to act up.. and it was just a switch. Tweaked it and fine ever since.

I really don't know why people do this, manual states 5.5-6 degrees.

I'm going to be diving into the switch matrix for the first time of a System 80B system, I have a drop target that is not registering as being down. Any advice? I looked over at Pinwiki to get up to speed, but still a little greek to me. First thought is check continuity and then check the diodes in the circuit to make sure there is no failure. I did a visual exam last night and saw nothing and the switch looks good and clean with no broken wires.

Gottlieb 4337 in my Hot Shots manual is 27 3/8" quantity four.

Some websites list short/tall sets; my factory manual would indicate this is incorrect and borne out with the three System 80's I have here. With the rear jacked up too high you can't even make some of the shots in Spring Break as the ball "falls off" trying to get across the table and will impact the upper turn low.

I just purchased 27" chrome legs from PBResource this week for this very problem, very reasonable at $13 a pop.

Need more info.

Which boards were swapped out? Did you change out the sound board? Were the sound ROMS swapped out for the game?

Maintenance on the Spring Break!

Since purchase a month ago the game was vaguely fussy; sound would not initialize right or was distorted time to time and would take a reboot or two to make right. I knew the 5V pot adjuster was fussy and erratic so ordered replacement pots (which didn't fit!)

This morning I drilled out the 5 volt board PCB so the new pot fit and dialed in 5.05 volts, grounded all the circuit boards and took off the battery (which had been changed in 2007 according to the tag) and simply remotely mounted it so even if it fails can't cause any damage.

Machine fired up and is running beautifully, rock solid.

Picture taken before I removed the battery and plugged in the upper MPU connector.

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Would have been neater but I'm working on the machine while it is in the line up which entails kneeling on another machine's rails to avoid stressing the glass. I'd pre-cut the wire, tin it and added the eyelet before hefting back up to solder in place.. so lengths were done by eye, a little longer than shorter.

Nothing special, standard automotive style eyelets. In this case I was using linesmen pliers which has a built in crimper.

Fun game! I have a really nice one in the line up but we're tight for space and thinking of rotating out. Can't keep them all!

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Cheap and sleazy Gold Wing mod that looks awesome!

Installed an LED below the capture outhole to illuminate the lens, LED is connected to the capture lamp.

Bright light to the right of the outhole is a lighted post to brighten up the area.

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Had not really considered spots; I prefer lighting more indirect and come through the plastics if possible to make them pop a bit. I have considered getting some 4" strip lighting and trying them in various locations. The playfield lighting on mine has been pumped up with some 5SMD towers and 2SMD in the other locations. I'll have to grab a few spots and play around a bit.

The outhole lighting is actually fairly bright, the lighted post is throwing off the camera.

I used a Comet 2SMD orange bulb in it and the "capture" insert. I considered red but that is used in a few other spots and wanted it to be different but still indicate "danger" as in being captured.

Two pictures of my playfield, one with overhead lamp on and the other with off. Camera had trouble focusing when the light was off.

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I'd look at the diagram of the MPU and see if the 3 items are related in any way as to what is controlling them.

Still picking at my Gold Wings; 4" frosted led strips came in from Comet and I have one tucked behind the upper flipper to illuminate the plastic fully and the flipper itself.

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Search for arcade emulator sites.

Oh, the EPROMS themselves!

Odds are no, anything you find now will be pulls being that old.

You need 2764? I might just have a new stick on the shelf. LMK how many you need.

Not an obvious modification to the naked eye but a pleasant one none the less. When I picked up my Gold Wings it had the "popular" short leg/long leg modification which I abhor. The manual states 5.5 to 6 degrees, which is a fine suggestion. I had to crank up the front levelers just to get it in the ball park which made a tall machine even taller.

So yesterday while pushing pins around I freed up some time to take the generic black legs that were on GW, run them through the chop saw, fired up the welder and made them all an equal 26" as you can see in the picture. The flipper buttons are now at the same height as the Williams Touchdown right next to it and I can see more of the playfield.

Little gold paint and all is good.
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I have a Hollywood Heat one on mine, though I'm toying with making one from scratch. With a laser printer and water slide decals could come up with something pretty cool.

Air raid siren in Gold Wings!

Anyone with a good system 80 board for sale? I have a game to bring back to life. Current board has damage over a wide area and I'm not sure worth investing my time.

I'm considering a Swemmer if I can find one or a Rottendog if a good stock MPU doesn't pan out. No particular hurry, I have plenty of projects to keep me busy but thought I'd throw it out there I was looking.

Interesting.

I just discovered Mylar is great for spot areas. Touched up this Trek playfield and mylar'd the center, it looks great!

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I played one at York a few weeks ago, could not get a good game in to decide if I like it or not. Shows are so hit or miss on the pins you play I generally don't form a bad opinion unless it is a clear stinker or tried a few examples.

Haunted House is about 30 1/2"

Interesting problem I have been chasing and finally a resolution. Perhaps this will help another Gottlieb owner in the future.

One of the pop bumpers looked.. slower than the others is the only way I think I could describe it. Almost like it was hanging up when the coil was released. I had the assembly apart a few times and installed new parts but nothing seemed to really totally fix the issue. Tonight I took it apart one more time and noticed when I reassembled that the plunger was not totally making contact with the stop. The hat or link under the fiber was making contact with the plunger bracket.

It would make sense it is binding up as when the plunger is all the way down it is being forced to one side when it came in contact with the bracket. When the coil released, it was bound up against the side of the sleeve and takes a split second to release.

Grinding off the point of the piece gave me about 1/8" of clearance and it no longer binds up, a noticeable improvement when playing.

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Going to depend on how bad the damage is and yes new boards are available. Picture?

I have had problems with disc caps, so my go to are..

1) NVRAM
2) Phone batteries 3.6V with remote cable, $12 for a four pack from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DFVPAKG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00

I had one in Hollywood Heat that would last a week.

For the $3 I just assume go with a remote & rechargeable battery.

Welding would get things pretty out of balance, I'd remove the fan and mount a unit below it.

Plenty of computer case fans or squirrel cage blowers running at a variety of voltages that would work fine.

I did a quick search of Ebay, very possible to find something that could work.

ebay.com link: sch

Search for Aluminum fan blade turns up lots.

Pinball Resource sells them.

You could also make some new ones by turning or shaving down the originals and using Titan bands around the circumference.

$5-$10 a pop shipped on Ebay, cost you 5x as much to have a welder take a stab at it unless you have a buddy do it for free.

Not worth it when you can get one so cheap.

I see a two early ones that have not been revised to the newer spec, nothing unusual. Make sure all the solder joints are good, common failure.

Piece of flat stock from Home Depot and a drill, take a hot 10 minutes

Start with looking for bad joints on the popper board connections. Mine had a bunch & blown fuses and after repairing the joints the problem went away.

Unplugged the boards, does it still pop fuses?

They come up for sale on the board here time to time.

Also $249 plus shipping and people have reported some incompatibilities.

SC-01 do show up time to time, just need to wait till one does.

Anyone have a single System one or System 80 7 digit display for sale? Worse case just need the glass.

Turns out I need a 7 digit actually.

Steve Young found one for me and I added it to my order this morning, woot!

They are on Ebay for the same price but since I had an order to place with Steve anyway.. ching!

Wood might be swelled up causing it to be difficult to lift, would not surprise me as they are "chipped wood" panels which have a tendency to absorb water.

I find that a good rebuild makes a big difference along with making sure EOS is clean and set proper.

I might be able to help you with a scan if you give me a few days. You will have to stitch it together though

I'll try to pull today so I can bring into work and use the nice scanner

I'd look close at the plunger yoke first to see if it wedging itself in place.

Look to see if the yoke is hitting at the indicated spots. If it does this will cause the yoke to cock over and jam the plunger into the side of the sleeve. Drove me crazy on my Black Hole finding. I ground the point down on the yoke an 1/8" inch and it fixed it.
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Thanks for reminder, I'll try to pull tonight. Been working on this...

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I have it pulled but she is brittle so will find a box I can bring it to work to protect while in transport.

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I have the cardboard so hope to have scanned in tomorrow morning!

Scan is complete; I have a 600 DPI TIFF file ready for upload when I get home tonight.

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Back home, safe and sound and file uploaded.

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Interesting, it acts like it is binding up.

A PITA I know, try swapping the whole assembly coil and all from one location to another to see if problem follows?

I mean everything lock, stock and barrel. Yes I know the light connections are a pain but you can always do what you suggested first to see if it changes anything.

Glad to be of service.

Make sure cockpit lights are 44 incandescent bulbs, the sockets are wired in series for them and led wont work.

A good thing to check but would not be playing if no 5V.

Power supply looks a Gulf unit which is reliable.

Clean the edge connectors on the MPU, the display won't work if communication is lost with MPU. Most common problem.

My first System 1; It had been in a basement for the last 30 years dead with no key for the head. I drilled the lock and this is what I found behind the backglass, a very unmolested unit back there. The tilt wiring and outhole had been disconnected in the cabinet for some reason, undoubtedly an attempt to "repair" the unit after the battery leaked.

I repaired the tilt wiring and outhole switch, pulled the battery off the MPU, did some quick clearing of the board contacts and fired up with the MPU unplugged. Checked and set voltage and plugged everything in.

Looks like it is stuck in slam tilt mode even with C2 bypassed but the MPU looks to be working. No insert lights but the GI and displays work and the ball in the saucer was ejected on power up so the MPU is seeing the switch matrix and can activate a coil.

I'm going to replace the interconnect cable (already on order) and use the good pins from the old cable to rebuild the J6 connector which has several broken ones from the battery leakage and go from there.

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Well I replaced the interconnect cable, replaced the pins in the mpu connectors and.. nothing. Just 000000 on the displays. Not even kicking out a ball from the saucer or 70 on the display.

Anyone have an aftermarket system one MPU for sale? Hate to use it for parts.

Hey now progress!

Have a 5 second boot up now! Replaced the Z29 buffer chip and this got me out of slam tilt mode.

Now I get coin up tones, start tones and the first step of the diagnostics which will power up the flippers , outhole and popper. The MPU is seeing the switch matrix too.

Displays are good and sharp.

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Ordered a new MPU from PBR. I could muck around with the OEM board for weeks and it still could have a bad spider chip.

Cleaned all the inserts and made sure all the lamps were working and refreshed the power board and reflowed its headers.

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Well this is awkward.. I got the System One board to work. After replacing the outhole driver on the driver board, I did some work on the MPU and brought it back to full operation.

So when the aftermarket MPU shows up send it back or keep it?

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Ended up canceling the MPU order, its working well and I think I'll be moving it along in the near future. It is pretty fun to play but not a big drop target fan.

I'll be able to list it for less without a new MPU baked into the pie.

I actually find the Gottliebs are very sensitive to flipper pivot and sleeve condition and usually the first thing I look at along with EOS switch.

Countdown now at work in our physical therapy department for use by staff and patients.

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Almost looks like a street level game Gottlieb was selling 1990-1991.

Simple game with no ramps and basic mechs to reduce downtown for pins in more remote locations. Not as expensive as other games of the timeframe or as prone to downtime.

PBR has them.

Edge connectors would be my guess, common.

Have Rottendog flipper board in DE Jurassic Park for a year now, zero problems.

Only issue I have with RD boards are the fuse holders are too cheap/flimsy and the power supply boards seem iffy in some cases.

Pinball Life usually has a good stock of trim in my experience.

https://www.pinballlife.com/backglass-trim-and-other-extruded-plastics.html

Always call.

The one from Titan Pinball works great as well.

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Post in the looking for EM parts thread, fairly common EM part. I'll check my stash but dont think I have one myself.

I had a gold unit, always cracked me up when it lit off.

Hardware store for $5, I had to cut one for mine when I broke it.

It's just normal glass, went to Lowes.