Anybody happen to have an extra working 4 digit display that you would send me? Like a noob I snapped the teet off mine while trying to get the connector back on. ((Working on a Touchdown.))

Word of caution!! I was putting the connector back on one handed! My thumb was at the top and obviously wrapped to the back edge. As soon as I heard the snap (didn't take much pressure) I knew exactly what had happened. I was like FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU.........just like "Christmas Story." Always use two hands in the future!!

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OMG! I just realized I have never joined or been accepted to this "club".
I apologize for not introducing myself on here first. ((Prior to posting the need for a 4-digit futaba display))

I got my first pin 2 years ago. Mars God of War. Since then I've added a few more. Gottliebs that is.
I cut my teeth on SYS80, and... I guess its still my pacifier...so to speak. If I belong anywhere, it's here.

My current lineup:
Mars God of War
Black Hole
Amazing Spiderman

On deck (or maybe still in the dugout ):
Close Encounters of the Third Kind
- Still needs power supply work and fine tuning.

On the disabled list:
Touchdown
- needs 4-digit display now.
- looking for backglass or at least someone to scan theirs and send data.
- missing "cheering" sound (any thoughts), 2 pop bumpers not working, players 1&3 are missing millionths digit.
- anyone have manual/schematics to share?
- needs full clean and massage
- needs playfield glass

Gottlieb SS baby.

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Thanks for the reply & advise. Much obliged.
- It looks like PBResource has refurbished boards, but they are out of just the glass which is what I need (at minimum). My back might be up against the wall though.

- I will check the DIPs on the sound board tonight for the "cheering" sound. Makes sense cause it could get a little annoying. Maybe?

- For the pop bumpers, I've already ruled out the switches...I will pull the PBDBs tonight and review solder. I originally had one that didn't work (middle RH). When I was trying to determine which board went with which bumper another one (outer RH) stopped working. All fuses are correct value and still good. Guess I can always look for power to rule out wiring. Checking components and rebuilding PBDBs may be in my near future...I have one that hasn't yet had the recommended mod done to it.

- Score Displays... my thoughts as well. Looks like millionths on #1 & #3 is a digit issue D16. Connector A1J3 wire16. Chip Z26 pin8. I'll check wiring and also for failed chip. Shout out to Pinwiki!

Any one else out there have a 4-digit display they could part with out of the kindness of their heart??

Your offer is stand up, however, I ended up finding a replacement NOS 4-digit display (just the glass) on eBay. Pulled the trigger prior to seeing your post. I removed the glass from my board late last night. Now waiting for arrival. If it falls thru I'll have to PM you.

Regarding the PB caps. One of mine is broken, but the others look good. I will have to order from PBResource for other things so I was planing to get caps from them as well.

And an update:

Xenon75, all I have right now. Sucks right? I took this pic during my tear down. I try to get you what you need tonight unless someone else beats me to it.

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Xenon75, Got the pics. Hope this helps you out. Sorry for the delay.

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R15 and R16 are both 10K pots (resistance adjustment.) You can adjust the volume of the sound and speech relative to each other. Adjust the volume of the sound with R15. Adjust the volume of the speech with R16. The main volume pot (volume up/down) can be found inside the cab through the coin door.

Happened on my MGOW until I rebuilt the power supply, but looks like your PS on that 80B is a bit different.
http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#System_80B_Power_Supplies

Make sure your terminals/connections to and from the PS are nice and clean or re-crimp new terminals. Also, remove old and reflow new solder at the PS header pins. See here also.
http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Recommended_Repairs_for_the_System_80B_Power_Supply_Board

Also take a look at this. You may want to look deeper into de-thunking it.
http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Power_on_.22Thunk.22
Power on "Thunk" --> "...on some games, the thunk can be very annoying by pulsing the ball release coil under the lower apron. The result is a ball being served into the shooter lane, before the MPU board even boots up."

Sound like a similar issue I had on my Touchdown.

Might be slam tilting. Use a wire lead with alligator clips to temporarily close the slam switch on the coin door. If this fixes the issue, I usually clean slam switch with a business card and adjust the switch. You could also look up how to mod the MPU to bypass the slam switch.

If you've got good voltages...Another idea for flakey resetting is to clean the legs and reseat all socketed chips on the MPU. I use a regular pencil eraser to clean the legs, and I support the legs of the chips by utilizing my bar countertop/workstation. Make sure to do them one at a time so as not to get them mixed up and reinstall them in the proper orientation observing the notch or dot of the chip as pin1.

mima
Steve at bgresto.com might be able to help you out with your Charlie's Angels.
((This one here looks like its the SS version though.))
http://bgresto.com/?p=1724

I had an issue with dirty chip legs not making contact in their sockets. (ROMs on the A1 board if I remember correctly.) caused resets on my Touchdown until I got them cleaned. Happened only after warming up too. Take out and clean legs on all socketed chips and inspect/clean sockets too.

Just posted over to the Black Hole club. Thought I'd check here too.
I've got a good player transforming into a great player... In the middle of a teardown. I'm in need.

- Blue Plexi for credit & ball in play on apron
- "B" drop target
- Top PF: LH lower playfield - small triangle
- Top PF: RH lower playfield - below RH flippers

Also, does anybody have water transfers already done for the pop bumper areas?
This image is my cleaned up and waxed state. Not sure if I want to paint (newb). Also a newb to water transfer.
I'm considering just installing new GTB mylar disks and call it a day, but I am interested in transfers.

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desertT1
Step one: channel the spirit of blownfuse
Step two: Listen to ForceFlow
Step three: Make sure your Voltages are stable.
Step four: battery corrosion?
Step five: good connection to the PCBs? Repin necessary? Do you have 5v on PCB?

I have a Touchdown that was similar. Would start a game but had random resetting. Tried to kick the ball out but repeatedly but failed. Was then blowing the solenoid fuse. Would also sometimes randomly kick ball into the lane on other ocassions. Like when we were watching a movie. My voltage was stable from PS. I took all the chips out of sockets and cleaned them with an eraser. Same result. Wonky. Did the wigggle/jiggle of the chips and found the game ROMs on the PCB to be to blame for the random ressetting. I replaced sockets with machine pin sockets. Same. Found out I needed to clean chip legs more aggressively than an eraser on U2 Game rom. (Chip that is just south of the Premier label in the image.)

I think you might have some other chip issues with the PCB too, maybe, but wonkyness is proportionally related to the quality of the connections. At PCB edge connections and sockets to chips. Oxidation and corrosion are your main issues I believe.

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I don't know if this is your case or not... I had found a similar wire on my bro-in-law's Caveman. (Extended wire past an A1 IDC connector.) I believe in our case the wire was previously connected up at the MPU reset connection (locate the reset board and follow its harness back to the MPU). Previous owner had replaced the wire harness between the reset board and the MPU and must have pulled wire out of the original IDC/socket at the MPU location... I still have not connected it up.

Glad to hear I was of help.

Huskers are my home team. However, I graduated from Kansas State so I tend to root for them more on game day.

All fuses are good?
All proper voltages coming from the A2 power supply? (There are test points.)

Sounds like its possibly in slam mode. I have used an alligator clipped lead to jumper the slam switch on the coin door...to temporarily bypass it during diagnosis. If that's the issue clean the switch and make sure there is continuity. My @Touchdown boots quickly. Does not take 4 seconds, but it then begins to toggle between zeros and high score.

Oh...and yes! Your edge connections could definitely be to blame. Clean board edge with pink eraser, Re-pin connectors, etc. Finally your MPU may be acting wonky. (crusty sockets, chip legs, etc. due to battery corrosion)

Can you toggle through test using the button on the coin door?

This is a good check for MPU TTL chips. I’ve found many bad chips with this simple diode check method.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#Testing_an_integrated_circuit

My brief experience has led to quite a few 7404 and 74ls04... seem to be weak chips. Z7 is a 74ls04. Can’t hurt to check all the other chips on the board as well.

As far as the power drain. I think you are ok for now. At least look over the power supply for cold solder. You may need to rebuild it in the near future due to old weak components.

I went this route with my SYS1 and SYS80s. Memory capacitor from Ed at Great Plains Electronics.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CERS-1.5F-5V&cat=67

My method. Small wires, a little solder, heat shrink, and a bit of silicon.
Also not fancy and original board unaltered.

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- Check voltage (no voltage?) at lamp sockets and clean sockets if necessary.
- Make sure you have good clean connection at A3J2 and A3J3 (confirm continuity to lamp) maybe need repin connectors.
- look on page 48 to get lamp number.
- then page 27 and 28 for driver board A3 information for connector, transistor(Q) and chip(Z).

50K = L5 -> pin 3 A3J2 -> Q6 ->Z2
100K = L6 -> pin 5 A3J2 -> Q7 -> Z2
200K = L8 -> pin 10 A3J2 -> Q9 ->Z3
special = L9 -> pin 9 A3J2 -> Q10 ->Z3
16K bonus = L41 -> pin 3 A3J3 -> Q42 -> Z11

next trace back to A1 CPU (Z32), but is looks like the information on RH side of page 25 is missing? You would have other lights not working if that chip was NG. So I don't think it's an A1 CPU issue at this time.

dim bulb = clean socket and/or replace bulb

I'm curious as to the backside image of your A2 board. Maybe you have "loose teeth" (cracked solder joints) around the pins at A2P1, A2P2, &or A2P3. I suggest at least reflow of fresh solder at these pins. Looks like a cap job is in your A2 future as well.

I recommend removal of battery from A1 CPU ASAP. Just get it off there. Today. You can always remote the battery later. I've used the memory cap from GPE on my Sys1 and Sys80s.

I put on a memory cap that I get from Ed at GPE (Great Plains Electronics)

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They are all on "Return 1". It's 611 color wire at pin A1J6-11. see if you have good continuity back to A1. Check at a board trace to eliminate edge connector as a concern. If no, then wiring problem.
If yes, then "Return 1" traces to chip Z13 pin 9 on the A1. That's a 7400. probably bad. You can check it using a multimeter on diode test. Reference pinwiki for proper testing.

Replace caps on sound board yet?

Tarn-X + tooth brush and then rinse well with H20. Worked well for some tarnished legs on chips for me.

Ex1: Got my Touchdown to stop random rebooting.
Ex2: Got 2 different Pole Position II boards working. Chips and sockets all cleaned up. One board needed a new Z80A.

Missing one whole digit on only one display... Check for cold solder on the back of the display itself. Also, check for continuity from edge connector all the way to the pins coming out of the glass. I've had a bad trace before. Guess it could be a chip too. Review pinwiki here:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1#Display_Data_Problems

I just want to say I love this thread. I check it daily, if not every other. You folks are the best and I consider you all part of my family. Enjoy my row.

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Good solid edge connections? If so...
I agree try Z6 first, and then... Z6 leads back to U4... dying spider chip? also how's the corrosion?
My close encounters would require multiple power-on(s) to finally boot MPU. One day random/multiple coil lock-on(s) resulted. MPU was the culprit...chased back to the Spider. now running a LISY1 with the same power supply and driver board.

Original power supply? Time for a rebuild.

Great suggestion as well.

When you check in another location, and if it follows the display, also confirm that you do not have a broken trace where the pins go into the glass display.

also check cold solder joints on the A2 power supply

+1

1) Check continuity from lamp to driver board. (to rule our wiring & edge connecter terminal)

then check driver board:
2) R41 is not open (has resistance)
3) then check 74175 (latch flip flop) at Z11. Pin 2.

My edit above does you no good since you swapped the driver and MPU. I still think it's 1).

Yes. check from lamp onto PCB. rule out that edge connector pin. also check other side of the lamp is connected to other working lamps.
& I believe all diodes are in the switch matrix, so no diode.

80A - Millions digit - on players 2&4 is D12. A1J3-12. Z26 pin2

In fact all of your display issues seem related to Z26. (maybe someone unplugged connectors with the power on? do not do this.)
D12: A1J3-12 Z26 pin2 80A - Millions digit - on players 2&4
D13: A1J3-13 Z26 pin4 80A - RH most digit of status display
D14: A1J3-14 Z26 pin6 80A - middle RH digit of status display
D15: A1J3-15 Z26 pin10 80A - middle LH digit of status display
D16: A1J3-16 Z26 pin8 80A - Ones digit - on players 1&3 and LH most digit of status display

Power off while making these display swaps:
Try each 7-digit display in player 1. only one display plugged in at a time.
Try each 7-digit display in player 3. only one display plugged in at a time.
does each display behave the same as in your picture above when in those locations?

For the status/credit display.
Is +42V DC present out of the power supply? if no, check CR6 and R5 on PS.
+42VDC at the display?
Proper VAC at the display?
Glass is still in good condition? (black dots in top left & bottom right corners still present?)
if white dots glass is NG.

Different voltage based on the position of the backboard?
Sounds like terminals and/or cold solder joint on PS.

Repin A1J3. Repin all PS connectors. Check the PS pins for cold solder joints as well and reflow or replace.
Need to get your voltages stable.

Check with pbresource...Maybe they have the original drawings for that transformer.
They might have already looked into having it remade, but canceled due to cost or something else.

On the other hand, they might be interested in producing/selling.
I don't need one, but interested in keeping pins from being parted out.

Thought you all would like to see this naked pic. (Whistling allowed.)

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Bro. Post #4460...

A couple of ideas:

I had a similar issue on my MarsGOW. Mine occurred when kicking the ball to the lane. I Rebuilt the PS.
When you have it apart, replace or reflow all of its headers.

Also... did you change out the large filter cap(s) on the bottom of the cab?

I want to say...yes? However, I didn't live with it long, prior to the PS rebuild. Sorry. I don't really remember.
If your MPU is resetting I think it's flaky 5V.

Strobe 6 is A1J6 pin7.

I think continuity at first.
Make sure you have continuity from the harness back to pin 2 on Z11. (eliminate the concern of a bad connection at the board edge connector)
Re-pin connector if necessary. (I would re-pin.)

Then I suggest Z11 (7404). You can diode test it based on pinwiki instructions... or just try by replacing it.
(I've found a lot of bad 7404 in my time)

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Glad you are flippin' again.

Have to preface by mentioning I don't have the Robowar schematics. (I'm referencing Touchdown schematics.)

You have an issue with Return 1 (1,11,21,31...) & Return 3 (3,13,23,33,...)
Return 1: tracing from the switch matrix... into A1J6-pin11 then to Z13(7400) - 8 out to 9 - origin is U4
Return 3: tracing from the switch matrix... into A1J6-pin13 then to Z13(7400) - 6 out to 5 - origin is U4
You can use the diode test procedure found in Pinwiki to test Z13.
Bad U4? I doubt it, because all else seems OK. Is U4 hot to the touch? (compared to U5 and U6)

This may be a bit different for Robowar, but hope this helps you out.
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I misspoke before. It's Returns 1&3 you are having issues with. (not Strobes)
I went back and corrected my original post.

You were on the right track. I believe it's Z13 (7400) you are having issues with.

Sure. Send me the link. I'll take a look at it.

Left selection button on one of those returns by chance?

RGarriott
definitely Return 1 & 3. Check/replace Z13 (7400)

Not sure about the left selection button though.
(Ah ha! See below.)

Does this occur now that you’ve replaced Z14? Or is it working now?

If your test switch works strobe0 and return7 are ok.
Left “advance” switch is also on strobe0, but it needs return6. (Return6 goes to Z14 on MPU) Z14 has already been replaced.

If your other switches work on return6 (Outhole, Rh flipper,etc) and it is just this one switch that doesn’t work…
Check the left advance switch itself, the connection 9 at the 1A7 diode board, or the 1N270 diode is bad.
If nothing on return6 works…maybe check your work at Z14.

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I believe pin4 of Z13 goes to the top of dip switch 5 of each bank of dip switches… so…S5,S13,S21,&S29.

It looks like it’s a top side trace and routes in under Z13. I can’t quite see it from the pictures that I’ve got on hand.

I’m not home at the moment. I think it’s the line in red on the frontside pic below, or to any one of the pads in red on the pic of the backside of the board. I’ll beep it out later for you once I get home.

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RGarriott
All beeped out just fine.

Guys and gals,
Looking for a plastic for the Spider-Man. A-19721. The one with the skyscraper on it. Stock photo below. Mine has a pretty large corner missing.

And i know it’s not this thread, but none the less a Gottlieb…ISO a rebound bracket for an EM I got that was missing it. Image also attached. Let me know if you can help me out with one, or the other, or perhaps both!

Thanks, Chad

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EDIT: I've got the EM rebound bracket coming. Should be to me this weekend. Thanks @gjm!! Still looking for the A-19721 Spiderman plastic.

It sounds to me like the issues you are having are on "Return 6". I don't have the schematics to see if you've got any other switches on that return.
Return 6 goes to Z14 (7400) on the MPU and then to U4.

I suggest to check/replace Z14.

Actually the Tilt(SW 46) and right shooter guide (SW 56) return comes into MPU on A1J5-8 and ties to A1J6-16 on board (where sparky672 has it circled.)

The "MPU switch matrix" he is referring to in this case means the operator selectable switches (dip switches on MPU) not to be confused with the switch matrix which consists of strobes, returns, playfield switches, and diode boards on the bottom of playfield)

The issue you are having is with R6 on the switch matrix.

Yes. The MPU is definitely repairable. Swap out Z14.

I may have one of those I could send. Let me know.

Eric, 1st life was in a Close Encounters SS. Cleaned up and in the mail. Has a bit more ball wear than your busted one, but it’ll play. I’m glad I could help out.
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Awesome. Looks better. That Genie flipping yet?

Oh! I do not have that one. Those targets are probably all brittle.
I see a PBR order in your near future (GTB-DTS-435)...and about $50 removed from your wallet.

Do you have the proper flipper coils in there?

Sounds to me like the MPU is not booting. I had a similar issue with my Spiderman. For me, it was one of the RIOTs U4,U5,or U6 I can't remember which one.
Also, how's the MPU corrosion situation?

Make sure your plug into the wall outlet has a ground pin.

Sounds like a heat issue. First, make sure your power supply is rock solid. No cracked solder on the PS pins? Nice & shiny pins and connectors at the PS and then onto the MPU at A1? All caps on PS & cap in the bottom of the cab been replaced? Make sure you have solid 5V even when it’s been on for a while.

I had similar problems with my Touchdown. Random lockups and resets after on for a while. Are your U2&U3 getting hot to the touch?
If I remember correctly, I had connection issues there on the MPU. Tarnex chip legs and new sockets for U2&U3.

I believe I see broken solder joints on that pop bumper driver board. Second picture. at connector pins.

To me it looks as though it is booting to some extent. then resetting. You've confirmed voltages, but I'm wondering if solid 5V? Do you still have the orange cap in the bottom of the cabinet? If so, replace cap. May need to rebuild PS. If battery on MPU, remove battery. Any battery corrosion or grayish leads on components on the MPU?

Once voltages are all good and solid... I think it's MPU. After PS voltages are OK...I would connect it to the MPU, but disconnect the driver bd to isolate just the MPU. See if it boots completely without resetting. If not, then I'd look at reseating U2/U3 & the riots. Nice shiny chip legs?

Could be bad connection between chips and sockets, or maybe a bad riot, or quite possibly battery corrosion. My best guesses at the moment.

MikeS
My original post was considering original MPU with all the corrosion talk.
Sounds like bottom of cab has been addressed.
Is it an original PS? It could be time for a PS rebuild then. Could still be MPU...or better yet edge connections (pins)
Isolating the MPU to boot would still help to diagnose.

My MGOW had an issue... When the outkicker fired the machine would reboot. I rebuilt the PS and it was resolved.
My Touchdown had issues with random resets once it warmed up... replaced sockets at U2/U3 and tarnex chip legs and it was resolved.

Looks like game over light is flashing 3 times before the reset? What is the flashing light on the playfield? ...watching random Alien Star youtube videos now...

Yes. that board is responsible for resetting if a fault is found.
If you simply unplug that board though, you could actually be having a problem... lock coil, etc.
Does everything on your machine work fine when you disconnect it? Problem could also be on that board or connections to/from it. IDC connectors or broken wire at A24-P2.

If MPU still doesn't boot or work properly I usually suspect simple TTL chip... or possibly a riot.

Do you get zeros on each of the score displays? Is credit display showing remaining credits? Does the high score toggle every 5 seconds? Can you add a credit?

Not tilted?
Ball in the trough and trough switch is OK?

I'm referencing "Touchdown" schematics... replay button is A1J5 strobe 4. I'd look at Z11(7404) at first...and then the switch matrix riot at U4 (6532)

I got this from pinwiki about the MA-766:
-----
Two momentary push button switches are present on the board - SW1 and SW2. Upon pushing SW1, the sound board should output a single blip (tone). SW2 is used to manually reset the CPU on the sound board.
A bank of 4 dipswitches is located adjacent to SW1. Dipswitches 1-3 should always be off, while dipswitch 4 should remain on for proper function.
-----

Did you confirm that the switches SW1 & SW2 change when pushed? Neither are always open or always closed. Especially SW2. But... reset starts low then goes high. It seems to be OK...

How about the dip switches? Sure they may be OFF-OFF-OFF-ON, but also to confirm continuity/function with a DMM.

Maybe then you have a bad 6502 effecting certainly the one, but also possibly effecting data/address lines of the other.
I don't have a copy of those schematics... I'd be looking into things that share those data and address lines. It's highly possible some simple TTL chip is botching things up.