(Topic ID: 73213)

Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)


By Gerry

7 years ago



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There are 4369 posts in this topic. You are on page 84 of 88.
#4151 55 days ago
Quoted from Luzur:

can two brand new chips from a pinball supplier be bad?

Very possible if they are from the same lot. There's counterfeit chips everywhere!! I only buy pulls, erase and reprogram them myself.

#4152 55 days ago

the three I had were pulls . I had bought 5 all together two of them programmed fine and the other three gave me the same error you are getting.

#4153 55 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Very possible if they are from the same lot. There's counterfeit chips everywhere!! I only buy pulls, erase and reprogram them myself.

Sadly the originals from the game dont even read anymore, totally blank dead.

#4154 55 days ago

Mayfair sells lift channels for backglasses

#4155 53 days ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

Mayfair sells lift channels for backglasses

thanks
pbr is indeed out of stock.. i see there are a few that sell plastic ones for stern and system 11. not sure if the will work with 1/8" backglass.

#4156 53 days ago
Quoted from boilerman:

thanks
pbr is indeed out of stock.. i see there are a few that sell plastic ones for stern and system 11. not sure if the will work with 1/8" backglass.

Pinball Life usually has a good stock of trim in my experience.

https://www.pinballlife.com/backglass-trim-and-other-extruded-plastics.html

#4157 52 days ago

The ones that mayfair brings to the shows are steel.

#4158 47 days ago

Alright guys - need a little help. I have a new to me Victory (80b) which was sold clean and working, but big surprise - the guy installed a memory cap, never cleaned the akaline that leaked everywhere, and after moving the game it won't boot. (Which after seeing the board isn't a big surprise)

Looking into the various repair guides for akaline abatement on system 80 MPUs, I've decided to go the reset generator route. I've removed all the pieces that I need, did the abatement, installed the 4 jumper wires, etc... And the board still doesn't reset. (Pin 40 never goes high w/ logic probe)

Does anyone have a schematic or drawing of what the reset circuit should look like AFTER all the adjustments? I have it narrowed to a few components, but wanted to confirm it before I shotgun replace them all and get religious.

Before pic for reference... Any other tips or suggestions always welcome.

IMG_20201203_093119 (resized).jpg
#4159 47 days ago

Are all the traces intact ?
It is looking pretty ugly there.....

#4160 47 days ago

If you're going to try and work a board with that much corrosion, you should at least be neutralizing and cleaning it up... Doesn't look like that's been done to me.

#4161 47 days ago

That looks like the before picture only with the cap still installed. I'd remove all those components, probably scrape off as much corrosion as possible with an exacto (sliding it across), then deal with neutralizing it. I'd expect that several of those traces will open up in the process.

#4162 47 days ago

Yes, that's absolutely a before pic just to show what I'm dealing with. I've already neutralized with vinegar, scraped with a wire brush/fiberglass pen, neutralized again, and cleaned with board cleaner and alcohol. It still isn't perfect, but it's far better now... my goal was to get it now booting, then give it one final clean.

What I'm trying to figure is what all traces need replaced since I'm going the reset generator route instead of replacing everything. I'm following the route described here (using a 120 + additional resistor) - https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Using_a_Reset_Generator_for_the_CPU_Reset_Section . Looking at how much of the circuit is replaced, I'm trying to figure what I'm missing and was hoping someone made a schematic of that implementation instead of just 'remove these, add these'.

I have solid connection to all the things noted in that guide and 5v/ground to the generator looks solid, but the line that goes from generator to pin 2 of Z4 doesn't seems to be triggering. It has continuity, and I've tried 2 generators just in case one was bad (bought from GPE, not eBay) and still no dice. Trying to see if it's something up/down in the circuit that's causing issues.
160704377422194409168447190955 (resized).jpg

I'm looking at the .1uf capacitors just above the 6502 as suspect... they tested ok, but still have a lot of wear. I didn't have any to replace with on hand and order is in the way.

#4163 47 days ago
Quoted from statictrance:

I'm looking at the .1uf capacitors just above the 6502 as suspect

Well your 6502 has corrosion & so does the chip above it CD4069UBE. I would replace those with sockets as well.

Quoted from statictrance:

then give it one final clean.

I would have given it that final clean before soldering new components on it.

Good Luck

#4164 45 days ago

Hey everybody, I just brought home an Amazing Spider-man. I guess I can join the club now. I have never had a System 80 and have a minor problem that I though someone could help with. The bulb was out on the 6k bonus and I replaced it and now it is on all the time? I have never had a bulb be on all the time and am not sure where to start troubleshooting.

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#4165 45 days ago
Quoted from killerrobots:

The bulb was out on the 6k bonus and I replaced it and now it is on all the time? I have never had a bulb be on all the time and am not sure where to start troubleshooting.

Q39 or Z10 are bad on your driver board.

#4166 45 days ago

Ok, im stumped bros, i burned two new roms, Rom1 and Rom2, for a Hollywood Heat that got one of its Roms turned the wrong way during a boardswap, and this is what i get:

https://streamable.com/ohotkm

Is it the Roms still, or is it the daughterboard? or bad motherboard? or what?

#4167 45 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Q39 or Z10 are bad on your driver board.

Thanks Slochar, I will check that out.

#4168 45 days ago
Quoted from Luzur:

Ok, im stumped bros, i burned two new roms, Rom1 and Rom2, for a Hollywood Heat that got one of its Roms turned the wrong way during a boardswap, and this is what i get:
https://streamable.com/ohotkm
Is it the Roms still, or is it the daughterboard? or bad motherboard? or what?

The game does not boot.
Your need to replace the eprom that you had in the wroung way.
It's broken forever...

#4169 45 days ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

I'm looking for some help with the switch matrix and solenoids for James Bond 007.
I need the wiring information to complete the Tech Chart I'm creating.
I have a manual pdf, but it does not have the schematics.
Peter
http://www.inkochnito.nl

I just joined this club last week with a James Bond 007, I was kind of hoping that I would have gotten in with a Hollywood Heat, but a barcade type of place not far from me is selling all their stuff, and I picked up the pin and a Mortal Kombat II arcade game in a combo deal. Plus I really like the James Bond 007 because it has both the unique timed play scenario, and the four flipper set up. I am going to use it as an opportunity to do the 3-5 ball play ROM mod, to get some experience with ROM mods before I try out slochar’s mod on the Flight 2000.

The only thing that is not working is the bottom pop bumper. It did not come with a manual or schematics, so if anyone could help me out, I would greatly appreciate it. Pop bumper driver boards? What’s up with that? Thanks.

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#4170 45 days ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

The game does not boot.
Your need to replace the eprom that you had in the wroung way.
It's broken forever...

But i have done that, thats why i burned two new Roms, and it still dont boot.

#4171 45 days ago
Quoted from Luzur:

But i have done that, thats why i burned two new Roms, and it still dont boot.

and you have no score display so my guess would be you need to resolder the daughter board but a word of wisdom here, its a PIA because in most cases the pins are big the holes and traces are small .....would highly recommend a chip quick kit, you can get it off ebay, and watch the videos on how to use it and you will be ahead of the game

#4172 44 days ago
Quoted from the9gman:

and you have no score display so my guess would be you need to resolder the daughter board but a word of wisdom here, its a PIA because in most cases the pins are big the holes and traces are small .....would highly recommend a chip quick kit, you can get it off ebay, and watch the videos on how to use it and you will be ahead of the game

Ugh, thats what i was afraid of, having to resolder that mofo.

#4173 44 days ago
Quoted from Luzur:

Ugh, thats what i was afraid of, having to resolder that mofo.

re-soldering is the easy part getting the daughter board pulled from the main board is the bitch so that you can re-do the connections under the daughter board ....the only way I have found to pull it and heat all the pins at once so you can pull it is chip quick. you would think I was a salesman for the company but I'm not ......its just the fact that its the only thing I have ever found that works .......I have a hot air station and a vacuum solder sucker and neither method shows good results . the way I do it now is apply the chip quick solder to both sides of the pins so that they are all connected with a solder glob and alternately go back and forth on both sides while gently pulling that side of the daughter board pins and eventually it will come out .....then clean up the holes with a solder sucker and alcohol

#4174 44 days ago

I use a pace solder station and pre flux the pads with quality flux. Piece of cake. Did all 6 of my system 80 games.

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#4175 44 days ago

Ive been using one of those electrical heated solder suckers for some years now and its pretty much shit, although a step better then the original solder sucker.

#4176 44 days ago

Pop Bumper: I screwed up again taking something apart, by not making a note of which wire was which when I tried to switch out a Gottlieb A-1496 with a stern J-26 1200, to trouble shoot why the pop bumper ring does not engage when the skirt triggers its switch. I looked at the 007 manual and the system 80 service manual but am not seeing anything. Thanks

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#4177 44 days ago
Quoted from tyking:

Pop Bumper: I screwed up again taking something apart, by not making a note of which wire was which when I tried to switch out a Gottlieb A-1496 with a stern J-26 1200, to trouble shoot why the pop bumper ring does not engage when the skirt triggers its switch. I looked at the 007 manual and the system 80 service manual but am not seeing anything. Thanks
[quoted image]

neither way worked. So i want to go back to the original coil. This is a James Bond 007. Thanks again.

#4178 44 days ago

pops on system 80 are controlled by individual pop bumper driver boards. Try swapping one for another, it's likely either you have a blown fuse for that pop if they are individually fused like a lot of gottlieb's are or the pop board is bad (usually the one shot chip, passives, or the transistor.)

there is an upgrade that needs to be done to those boards as well pinwiki has the details

#4179 44 days ago

Yes. There should be a fuse for each pop bumper on the underside of the playfield.

#4180 44 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Yes. There should be a fuse for each pop bumper on the underside of the playfield.

Are the wires interchangeable on pop bumper coils? I’m thinking they are not...

#4181 44 days ago

What do you mean? The power wire for each pop should be the same color and on the banded side of the diode.

#4182 44 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

What do you mean? The power wire for each pop should be the same color and on the banded side of the diode.

I was not seeing the Black - Black - Yellow wire on the other pops.

#4183 44 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

What do you mean? The power wire for each pop should be the same color and on the banded side of the diode.

First pin the house, so I can check these things much more easily now. Right now I have:

Lower Pop Bumper Coil: Diode Side: Black-Black-Yellow / Not-Diode Side: Purple-Red

Middle Pop Bumper Coil: Diode Side: Red-Red-Yellow / Not-Diode Side: Purple-Yellow

Upper Pop Bumper Coil: Diode Side: Red-Red-Yellow / Not-Diode Side: Purple

Lower Pop Bumper is only one not working. I took readings of the coil and switches and compared to the others and they seemed similar, so I will next switch out a driver board from one that is working. I was looking at the driver boards though and did not see anything that I could correlate to which pop bumper it would go to. Are the wires supposed to match?

#4184 44 days ago
Quoted from tyking:

First pin the house, so I can check these things much more easily now. Right now I have:
Lower Pop Bumper Coil: Diode Side: Black-Black-Yellow / Not-Diode Side: Purple-Red
Middle Pop Bumper Coil: Diode Side: Red-Red-Yellow / Not-Diode Side: Purple-Yellow
Upper Pop Bumper Coil: Diode Side: Red-Red-Yellow / Not-Diode Side: Purple
Lower Pop Bumper is only one not working. I took readings of the coil and switches and compared to the others and they seemed similar, so I will next switch out a driver board from one that is working. I was looking at the driver boards though and did not see anything that I could correlate to which pop bumper it would go to. Are the wires supposed to match?

Should have written “band” instead on “diode”

#4185 44 days ago
Quoted from tyking:

First pin the house, so I can check these things much more easily now. Right now I have:
Lower Pop Bumper Coil: Diode Side: Black-Black-Yellow / Not-Diode Side: Purple-Red
Middle Pop Bumper Coil: Diode Side: Red-Red-Yellow / Not-Diode Side: Purple-Yellow
Upper Pop Bumper Coil: Diode Side: Red-Red-Yellow / Not-Diode Side: Purple
Lower Pop Bumper is only one not working. I took readings of the coil and switches and compared to the others and they seemed similar, so I will next switch out a driver board from one that is working. I was looking at the driver boards though and did not see anything that I could correlate to which pop bumper it would go to. Are the wires supposed to match?

I think it is low, mid, upper from left to right, in pick because the wire on the 1 pin in the driver board is matching up with wire on the non-banded side of the diode.

A291CAA9-18FE-47E0-A59D-8E48641B9EC1 (resized).jpeg
#4186 44 days ago
Quoted from tyking:

I think it is low, mid, upper from left to right, in pick because the wire on the 1 pin in the driver board is matching up with wire on the non-banded side of the diode.
[quoted image]

Which I guess answers my other question about which wire goes to which lug On the coil.

#4187 44 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Yes. There should be a fuse for each pop bumper on the underside of the playfield.

Pop Bumper: definitely went in the wrong order. So after changing out a coil, and switching the PBDB’s, I switched out fuses, and the fuse blew when I triggered the pop bumper. So now I “see” the problem. Just need to figure out how to fix it.

I was going to start in on the ground modifications, thinking it will solve the issue, but I realize I don’t have all original boards, which is what the PinWiki site describes. I have a rotten dog MPU. See pic, did someone do and then undo a ground mod on this board?

2636778E-19A0-441F-85DC-D4E1F9870866 (resized).jpeg50F1F682-CA6D-40FD-BA28-EA8E3666149A (resized).jpeg
#4188 44 days ago

See if the fuse blowing follows one particular pop bumper driver board. It's is most likely a bad driver transistor on the one that drives the bad pop.

#4189 43 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

See if the fuse blowing follows one particular pop bumper driver board. It's is most likely a bad driver transistor on the one that drives the bad pop.

Wow, who would have thought that installing a fresh fuse would have taken such a long and winding route? I think the fuse blew, in part, because I had in fact crossed the wires on the stern coil that I swapped in; because after changing the driver boards i did not get any different results, and the driver board for the non working pop was working to power the other pops. Then I realized I had crossed the wires, so I put the original coil in with the wires correctly configured, and put a fresh fuse in, and viola, pop. A bit week at first, plus double popping, but at least its working. Now if only I had the two other fuses, I would have three working pops again... Thanks for helping me stay on track!

#4190 43 days ago
Quoted from tyking:

Now if only I had the two other fuses, I would have three working pops again... Thanks for helping me stay on track!

The hardware store only had 3A slow blo fuses, so i put those in, and all the pops are working. Now I just need to figure out how to play with these dual flipper set ups. Lots of whiffing between the two flippers. Plus I really miss the center post on the stern F2K.

#4191 42 days ago

This might be of help to some one in the future.

Bought a new schwemmer 80b mpu.

Installed in game would not boot. Swap the new mpu into another 80b wont boot.

Sent board in was told it is fine bench tested good. Board was sent back.

Try board again- same issues.

At this point I had multimeter and logic probe out. Working with negative tied to blackbox ground If I touched positive lead anywhere on logic path from z3 to u1 leg 37 or to cpu clock speed solder spot and I could get game to boot.

According to manual a sn7404n is installed on z3/11/12/16/17/26/27/34/35.

Swapped chips from 3 to 11 and game boots.

Swapped back 3 11 to original spots doesnt boot.

As of now everything is working with chips swapped from 11 and 3. Can rule out pin drag issue since I installed back no boot.

Chip that was in z3 reads sn74ls04n.

Chip that was in z11 reads 74hct04n

#4192 42 days ago

If i have a system 80 w/ a rotten dog MPU and a NVRAM power supply, but an original driver board and sound board, will i still benefit from the ground mods?

5A77B1D4-B1E1-4129-9DEE-8696FC9AF7E2 (resized).jpeg
#4194 42 days ago

thanks. I’ll have a go at it tomorrow...

#4195 41 days ago

System 80 ground mod: Just wanted to make sure i understand what I’m doing. I have only taken things off of boards, but i have never added something to one. I’m attaching a photo showing where i Think i am suppose to solder the end of the new ground wire. This is based on the photo from the PinWiki description. Am i right that you just solder the wire onto the trace and the trace is the line that runs from point to point in the circuit, where the trace is narrow in some places, and then, like the back of the sound board where PinWiki says to put the other new ground wire, the trace can take up a whole patch of space? Please let me know if the markups on the pic are not discernible. Thank you.

F8B5C474-C084-4748-9E37-BED60DDCF64D (resized).jpeg
#4196 41 days ago

System 80 ground mod: also i am very curious whether the ground mod has an effect that will be apparent based on before and after mult-meter or logic probe tests. I would really like to learn more about using these tools to troubleshoot, etc., and find that i learn best by doing, and hoping this an opportunity to do. I tested the pop bumper coils when i had the fuse problem, and they seemed fine, but since i was not confident in my readings, i kept focusing on the pop bumper, instead of moving on to the fuse (plus i didn’t even really know where the fuse was, at that point, so it was also that).

#4197 41 days ago
Quoted from tyking:

System 80 ground mod: Just wanted to make sure i understand what I’m doing. I have only taken things off of boards, but i have never added something to one. I’m attaching a photo showing where i Think i am suppose to solder the end of the new ground wire. This is based on the photo from the PinWiki description. Am i right that you just solder the wire onto the trace and the trace is the line that runs from point to point in the circuit, where the trace is narrow in some places, and then, like the back of the sound board where PinWiki says to put the other new ground wire, the trace can take up a whole patch of space? Please let me know if the markups on the pic are not discernible. Thank you.
[quoted image]

Yep. That’s the right spot. I just use my iron to scratch away the green lightly to reveal the trace that will take the solder easily.

#4198 41 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Yep. That’s the right spot. I just use my iron to scratch away the green lightly to reveal the trace that will take the solder easily.

Thanks again

#4199 41 days ago

While you might be able to "read" a difference in continuity of the ground circuit, before and after the mods are installed, if your machine is running ok now, it is unlikely.
The ground mods insure proper and common ground to all of the boards.

#4200 41 days ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

While you might be able to "read" a difference in continuity of the ground circuit, before and after the mods are installed, if your machine is running ok now, it is unlikely.
The ground mods insure proper and common ground to all of the boards.

I see so it’s a matter of there being no difference noticeable now when the machine is okay, but if their were to be a change in future and the machine is not running properly, and I do the mod then, that’s when I would notice the difference and see what the ground mod had corrected? Moreover, the mod is there to prevent the machine from not running properly, so that I will never see the day that a difference is noticeable.

Do you test for continuity of the ground circuit at the point where the ground wire is leaving a board or other place? And I am just testing to see that there is continuity right? Do I also need to see a particular amount of Omhs? Thanks again

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