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(Topic ID: 73213)

Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)


By Gerry

6 years ago



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  • Latest reply 2 days ago by gdonovan
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There are 4034 posts in this topic. You are on page 81 of 81.
#4001 11 days ago

That’s how I have mine screwed in. Have been considering tapping/threading the original power supply bracket to accommodate the skinny boards.

#4002 11 days ago

Has anyone tried using the Lisy1 mpu with the Boston pinball displays?

#4003 10 days ago
Quoted from stumptown:

Nah it's just left disconnected per instructions. Specifically it's one of the Swemmer 80B boards, with a new set of ROMs installed. (https://ksarcade.net/system-80b-mpu.html).

Socketed chips are always one of the first things I suspect but in this case it's a new board, new (fancy, ZIF) socket, and new ROM, so I don't think there's an issue there. Had similar symptoms with the original MPU as well.
I think the backbox ground mods are gonna be the next thing. Given what I've already done to the game, and that the MPU is fresh, it seems like those grounds are the big likely cause remaining in play.

God this thing is killing me. Besides what I talked about in the prior posts the machine now has a new filter cap (12000uF), and the MPU, driver, and display boards all tied to the ground lug on a new aftermarket power supply board. Also played around with the door slam switch a bit and opening it did give something like the resets I'd been seeing, flashing lines of asterisks with no tilt message, so I just took the switch out of the equation and soldered the leads for it together and wrapped them as I've seen often recommended. Got through some games, but eventually... Another reset. When I was testing it the other day the display was turning off at random after a few games too. And I'm now also getting intermittent failures to boot, but if you power cycle a few times. So... Something's still not right.

Is there any possibility that the driver board could have issues that could cause this kind of behavior? Or any of the other boards? Or does the MPU not communicate that extensively with them during boot and a fault on another board wouldn't impede it?

#4004 9 days ago

Hey all. Joined the club about three weeks ago and have been working at getting a Circus up and running. I'm pretty close thanks to all the info on here on fixing up the many issues of a sys 80.

Anyways, wanted to share what I used to fix the damaged blue/green coating on the back glass for the displays. I damaged one of the window coatings when removing the painters tape off the windows after triple-thicking the rest of the BG. As you can imagine it looked terrible. I see where there are filter/overlays available online that are placed over the displays to bring back the color, but I was iffy on what they would look like, so I ordered this:

amazon.com link »

See pics for how it turned out. Only one display has the vinyl tape applied. If you cannot tell which one, this product might work for your project too! I did have to use 3 'layers' to get it this close. Standing in the player position its looks great, and the tape does not reflect the GI in the head as much as the OG coating, which helps make the digits 'pop'

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#4005 9 days ago

All mechs rebuilt/cleaned, top side cleaned and waxed. Just waiting on the boards to come back from being repaired!

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#4006 8 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

All mechs rebuilt/cleaned, top side cleaned and waxed. Just waiting on the boards to come back from being repaired![quoted image]

Who did you send them to, I might need that service as well.

#4007 8 days ago

I took my neighbors game to poke around it for a few hours and see if I could fix it. Gottlieb sys80a Jacks to Open. From poking around it looks like there isn't any/good voltage getting to the power supply board. Does the sys80a transformers have issues like sys1? Next step is to go to the halfway plug and test voltage there.

#4008 8 days ago
Quoted from pinostalgia:

Who did you send them to, I might need that service as well.

Jerry clause. There hasn’t been any board from any game he couldn’t fix. Find him on Facebook or look up game room service in MI.

#4009 7 days ago

Anyone one looking for a "Sinbad" project pin or need any parts from it? If so, PM me.

#4010 7 days ago
Quoted from gjm:

Anyone one looking for a "Sinbad" project pin or need any parts from it? If so, PM me.

Small transformer :-p where are you located

#4011 7 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Small transformer :-p where are you located

Myrtle Beach, SC
My location should be listed with my avatar picture.

#4012 7 days ago
Quoted from gjm:

Myrtle Beach, SC
My location should be listed with my avatar picture.

Hmm you must have some privacy setting tight on your location/avatar?

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#4013 7 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Hmm you must have some privacy setting tight on your location/avatar?[quoted image]

Thanks for that information, I will check into it.
I just PM'd you so we can talk about what you might need. I don't want to tie up the guys thread.

#4014 7 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Hmm you must have some privacy setting tight on your location/avatar?

He's from Japan just look at his picture, Gwodzilra! Of coarse I kid I kid

#4015 6 days ago

jacks to open sys80a I am getting all power except the +5v dc offset and +8v dc offset from the small transformer. All other DC off the rectifiers is fine, 24v, 12v, 6v, all vac's off both transformers. Just not the offset voltages. I've tested on the transformer itself and at the A12-J4 connector, nothing... Has anyone seen something like this?

Edit: added schematic photo. Supposed to go dc directly from transformer to plug up to the power supply board

image (resized).jpg

Hmmm, there must just be a way to test that I am not doing right for the offset voltage.

#4016 6 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Supposed to go dc directly from transformer to plug up to the power supply board

Nope, the DC offset is being applied to the centre tap on those two transformer windings FROM the powersupply board. Tansformers cannot output DC.

#4017 6 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Nope, the DC offset is being applied to the centre tap on those two transformer windings FROM the powersupply board. Tansformers cannot output DC.

thats what I was thinking....seamed odd, thank you. It was weird as I could not get the 5 or 8v to test on the plugs, but with his Gulf Pinball psu board the test points work....Well I verified all the voltage so I'm going to repin the connectors on the psu as that is a big step in the fix since I can't get them good with that old style push in.

#4018 6 days ago

I'm in talks with a transformer company and am curious how many would be interested in a new gottlieb sys1 small transformer being made. Nothing is confirmed, but it could be ~$250 + . Is this something anyone would pay for?

#4019 5 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

I'm in talks with a transformer company and am curious how many would be interested in a new gottlieb sys1 small transformer being made. Nothing is confirmed, but it could be ~$250 + . Is this something anyone would pay for?

Wow...that's expensive! Why not buy a couple off-the-shelf transformers 120v to 60v, and 120v to 12v instead of having one made? Wouldn't that be a whole lot cheaper and still do the job?

#4020 5 days ago
Quoted from JethroP:

Wow...that's expensive! Why not buy a couple off-the-shelf transformers 120v to 60v, and 120v to 12v instead of having one made? Wouldn't that be a whole lot cheaper and still do the job?

If someone wants to stay original mpu or displays they need the weird voltages like -12, the offsets for the stock displays etc. yeah it’s expensive, but a new board can be $150-400. So just depends on the owner. Also the documentation and parts to convert the Small transformer seam to make it pretty expensive and not plug n play so people are parting out good games.

I may try to have one made and see what a large quantity would run, and if it isn’t too bad offer it as a part.

#4021 5 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

If someone wants to stay original mpu or displays they need the weird voltages

I wasn’t suggesting changing the “weird” voltages or MPU. I just proposed buying a ready made transformer(s) that produce the required voltage(s).

I think keeping a game original is important in some respects, but people change out their Gottlieb MPU for Pascal or Niwumpf all the time. Or change out gas displays for LED....

You can have a new transformer made, or have your old one rewound. I just thought it would be cheaper to buy one off the shelf that produced the original voltage(s).

Just out of curiosity, what voltages and MVA ratings are you specing in your new transformer build?

#4022 5 days ago
Quoted from JethroP:

I wasn’t suggesting changing the “weird” voltages or MPU. I just proposed buying a ready made transformer(s) that produce the required voltage(s).
I think keeping a game original is important in some respects, but people change out their Gottlieb MPU for Pascal or Niwumpf all the time. Or change out gas displays for LED....
You can have a new transformer made, or have your old one rewound. I just thought it would be cheaper to buy one off the shelf that produced the original voltage(s).
Just out of curiosity, what voltages and MVA ratings are you specing in your new transformer build?

I dug down some the other night and either you’d need 2-3 power supplies to replace the 1 small transformer or convert to the all DC 5v stuff.

I’m looking to have to spec’ed the same as the original small transformer. I’ll probably be shipping mine out so they can reverse engineer/look it over and wind a new one.
So from my list
3v ac and 3v ac return
4v dc offset
5v ac and return
8v dc offset
69v ac and return
14v ac and return
11.5v ac and return

Seems like a lot of voltages for that small transformer... the large one does maybe 3, 25v 6.3 and 8 I think.

Maybe this is a super stupid idea and I’ll waste money. Idk, but I’ve worked on 4 or 5 sys1’s now and have only come across one bad transformer but the stories of bad ones is almost endless. Also in my quest for knowledge I did find out the pascal all in one board needs the original voltages :/
That being said if anyone has the spec doc for the small transformer I’d love to pass that along to help in a remake of the transformer.

#4023 5 days ago

Just discovered this thread. I’ve owned a few SYS 80 and SYS 1 games in the past, but I’m down to my only SYS 80 I’ll never sell- The Amazing Spider-Man. The game is really fun to play and the art cannot be beat (at least for a geek like me). I upgraded to pascal boards, added some Comet sunlight bulbs, and some red and blue rubber but it is otherwise minty stock. I also was luck enough to meet Stan Lee at Hero Complex poster Gallery in LA a few years back and he signed an apron card I modified. So, very happy with the game and glad I found this thread.
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#4024 5 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

That being said if anyone has the spec doc for the small transformer I’d love to pass that along to help in a remake of the transformer.

Check with pbresource...Maybe they have the original drawings for that transformer.
They might have already looked into having it remade, but canceled due to cost or something else.

On the other hand, they might be interested in producing/selling.
I don't need one, but interested in keeping pins from being parted out.

#4025 5 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Also in my quest for knowledge I did find out the pascal all in one board needs the original voltages :/

I thought the pascal 4 in 1 didn't use the small transformer just the large one?
The pascal just mpu board would need it since the original power supply is still being used.

#4026 4 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

I thought the pascal 4 in 1 didn't use the small transformer just the large one?
The pascal just mpu board would need it since the original power supply is still being used.

The plain mpu from pascal may not, but the all in one board does.

The connection of the power supply to the mpu is 5v, ground and -12v so in theory, replacement boards may actually only use 5v. Which is the case in most, like Lisy1

#4027 3 days ago

You can get +5 and-5 as well as plus/minus 12v from a standard arcade power supply.

#4028 3 days ago
Quoted from stumptown:

God this thing is killing me. Besides what I talked about in the prior posts the machine now has a new filter cap (12000uF), and the MPU, driver, and display boards all tied to the ground lug on a new aftermarket power supply board. Also played around with the door slam switch a bit and opening it did give something like the resets I'd been seeing, flashing lines of asterisks with no tilt message, so I just took the switch out of the equation and soldered the leads for it together and wrapped them as I've seen often recommended. Got through some games, but eventually... Another reset. When I was testing it the other day the display was turning off at random after a few games too. And I'm now also getting intermittent failures to boot, but if you power cycle a few times. So... Something's still not right.
Is there any possibility that the driver board could have issues that could cause this kind of behavior? Or any of the other boards? Or does the MPU not communicate that extensively with them during boot and a fault on another board wouldn't impede it?

Dug in some more on this fucker of a machine tonight, and had a nice breakthrough. I disconnected everything from the MPU except the power regulator and display, and it booted perfectly, so the problem wasn't with the MPU. Added connectors back on one by one until I found which one caused the no boot condition. It turned out to be the switch matrix connector. So I took advantage of the edge connector setup and just taped off sections of it until I found the pin that introduced the problem...

It turned out to be one of the switch return lines, pin 11, which serves some drop targets, and the pop bumpers. Which includes those pop bumper driver boards that Gottlieb loved. I tried disconnecting those and found that one in particular introduced the no boot condition. With that disconnected the game boots and plays pretty reliably. I got a stack of the pop bumper driver boards in a lot of parts I bought a while back so hopefully one of those is good.

Still had the display conk out on me once though... Worked fine til it didn't, worked fine again after power cycling the game. Still need to figure out what's going on there. Seems to always happen when you've got a good game going, too!

#4029 3 days ago
Quoted from stumptown:

Dug in some more on this fucker of a machine tonight, and had a nice breakthrough. I disconnected everything from the MPU except the power regulator and display, and it booted perfectly, so the problem wasn't with the MPU. Added connectors back on one by one until I found which one caused the no boot condition. It turned out to be the switch matrix connector. So I took advantage of the edge connector setup and just taped off sections of it until I found the pin that introduced the problem...
It turned out to be one of the switch return lines, pin 11, which serves some drop targets, and the pop bumpers. Which includes those pop bumper driver boards that Gottlieb loved. I tried disconnecting those and found that one in particular introduced the no boot condition. With that disconnected the game boots and plays pretty reliably. I got a stack of the pop bumper driver boards in a lot of parts I bought a while back so hopefully one of those is good.
Still had the display conk out on me once though... Worked fine til it didn't, worked fine again after power cycling the game. Still need to figure out what's going on there. Seems to always happen when you've got a good game going, too!

there is a service bulletin for the pop bumper boards, and BDE (big daddy enterprises) sells kits to replace the parts. Otherwise new builds are ~$20. I think someone even sold a pcb you just had to populate but I can't find it.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-sys80-pop-bumper-boards-which-are-recommended

I wonder if you test voltage for your displays at the power supply. then when the game stops showing displays, leave it on and test again, see if the PS dropped the voltage or if the MPU is not outputting data?

#4030 2 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

there is a service bulletin for the pop bumper boards, and BDE (big daddy enterprises) sells kits to replace the parts. Otherwise new builds are ~$20. I think someone even sold a pcb you just had to populate but I can't find it.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-sys80-pop-bumper-boards-which-are-recommended
I wonder if you test voltage for your displays at the power supply. then when the game stops showing displays, leave it on and test again, see if the PS dropped the voltage or if the MPU is not outputting data?

Ah nice, good to know about the SB on those! I'll have to check to see if the other boards in the game have had that done. Some of the spare boards I have definitely have been worked on too, maybe I'll get lucky and it'll be plug and play

That was my thought on the displays too, not sure what the power path looks like there but maybe there's a weak component or bad connection somewhere. I'm going to drag my scope over there to start sniffing around the data lines too.

#4031 2 days ago
Quoted from stumptown:

Ah nice, good to know about the SB on those! I'll have to check to see if the other boards in the game have had that done. Some of the spare boards I have definitely have been worked on too, maybe I'll get lucky and it'll be plug and play
That was my thought on the displays too, not sure what the power path looks like there but maybe there's a weak component or bad connection somewhere. I'm going to drag my scope over there to start sniffing around the data lines too.

Oh spares, always handy to use for testing!

If your power supply board is original I would suggest rebuilding it with BDE or GP kits, or at minimum your own kit or caps.

#4032 2 days ago

Alright, I need some extra brains on this.

I have my buddies roller disco. I got the displays and mpu booting again... but the ball kick out coil is still locking on once I press start

Mpu - Lisy1
Driver - rotten dog
Power board - gulf pinball

I replaced the diode on the coil and transistor on the driver board, same issue. I just tested resistance (in circuit) and get ~15.5 which is right near oem.

All I can think of is it is grounding out? What else should I check?

Edit: when testing by grounding out the transistor tab, it worked as it should, meaning I ground the tab and the coil fires, let off and it disengages.

#4033 2 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Oh spares, always handy to use for testing!
If your power supply board is original I would suggest rebuilding it with BDE or GP kits, or at minimum your own kit or caps.

I ended up ordering a new one just to rule it out, cheap enough and critical to so much it's just worth the peace of mind.

#4034 2 days ago
Quoted from stumptown:

Ah nice, good to know about the SB on those! I'll have to check to see if the other boards in the game have had that done. Some of the spare boards I have definitely have been worked on too, maybe I'll get lucky and it'll be plug and play
That was my thought on the displays too, not sure what the power path looks like there but maybe there's a weak component or bad connection somewhere. I'm going to drag my scope over there to start sniffing around the data lines too.

Edge connectors would be my guess, common.

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