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(Topic ID: 73213)

Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)


By Gerry

6 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 hours ago by northvibe
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There are 4029 posts in this topic. You are on page 80 of 81.
#3951 21 days ago

Just to conclude my diamond lady display issue.

I reflowed solder on the bottom display glass and the U2 chip and it seems to be fixed!

Thanks for the help!!

#3952 21 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Just to conclude my diamond lady display issue.

glad to hear that worked. I've been debating on another system 80B and Diamond lady and haunted house are high on my list of picks

#3953 21 days ago

Yeah I found a few legs on the display glass that looked questionable including a really bad one that I think was ground. Seems to be rock solid now. Left it on for hours and it stayed solid the whole time. Before it would’ve lost the bottom display by now. I’ll report back if anything changes.

#3954 19 days ago

I'm working on a roller disco (sys1). It has a rottendog driver, lisy1 mpu, rebuilt psu with a kit.
I'm getting good voltage on all psu pins except A2-P3 pin 7 and pin 8
pin 7 - 4v
pin 8 - 8v
I see like 233 mv...just odd readings, kind of bounces around. but the game powers and displays work.

Otherwise I hit start and the outhole coil fires and stays locked on. I assume the transitor went on the board and maybe the diode on coil? I can swap those.. before I moved the game it would not start a game, so maybe some pins on the plugs need to be checked as well.

Another question
On a dragon (sys1) the game doesn't start, but the power supply cord/plug A2-P1 is noticeably very warm. Is this normal?
I need to get the dmm on the psu but just wanted to start there.

#3955 19 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

I'm working on a roller disco (sys1). It has a rottendog driver, lisy1 mpu, rebuilt psu with a kit.
I'm getting good voltage on all psu pins except A2-P3 pin 7 and pin 8
pin 7 - 4v
pin 8 - 8v
I see like 233 mv...just odd readings, kind of bounces around. but the game powers and displays work.
Otherwise I hit start and the outhole coil fires and stays locked on. I assume the transitor went on the board and maybe the diode on coil? I can swap those.. before I moved the game it would not start a game, so maybe some pins on the plugs need to be checked as well.
Another question
On a dragon (sys1) the game doesn't start, but the power supply cord/plug A2-P1 is noticeably very warm. Is this normal?
I need to get the dmm on the psu but just wanted to start there.

What are you using for the ground? Use P2 4 or 5.

Not sure on the warmth on the power cord. That seems does seem suspicious

#3956 19 days ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

What are you using for the ground? Use P2 4 or 5.
Not sure on the warmth on the power cord. That seems does seem suspicious

Crap I should of taken a pic, the game is at work.

I used p5 as a ground per the manual, iirc.

#3957 19 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Diamond lady. The bottom half of the display fades out from time to time. Top is always good. Ground mods done. If I tap the front of the display it comes back for a while. Any ideas?
[quoted image]

I think I know - I've repaired a few of these displays. Gravity, corrosion, movement break those pins. They are a *itch to repair. To make matters worse, the through holes on the component sides are usually badly corroded. You'll have to be very careful and clear out those through holes with a light suction solder sucker (what I use) and then clean those through holes with a fiber pen or x-acto.

Usually you can't see that the pins are broken unless you put on magnifying specs, a lot of light, and gently press on the display. I wish you luck. The display glass can be very hard to find.

chuckwurt

#3958 19 days ago

Asking the group - anyone have remake or original plastics for the kickbacks in Genesis? And not 80/80a/80b - same for Lights Camera Action?

TIA!

#3959 19 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

I think I know - I've repaired a few of these displays. Gravity, corrosion, movement break those pins. They are a *itch to repair. To make matters worse, the through holes on the component sides are usually badly corroded. You'll have to be very careful and clear out those through holes with a light suction solder sucker (what I use) and then clean those through holes with a fiber pen or x-acto.
Usually you can't see that the pins are broken unless you put on magnifying specs, a lot of light, and gently press on the display. I wish you luck. The display glass can be very hard to find.
chuckwurt

Already fixed it. Thanks for the help though!

#3960 19 days ago

Just a heads up. Wolff pax has diy displays for gottlieb games. I used Boston Pinball’s on my last projects so I haven’t used these yet but I have a set coming for my stern electronics game. I’ve heard good things!

https://www.wolffpactech.com/shop-2

#3961 19 days ago

Ok guys, when you burn Gottlieb roms, what choice do you use? Im gonna burn a set of Gottlieb Monte Carlo roms for a friend on my GQ-4X romburner and i have a vague memory of having trouble getting my Hollywood Heat Roms to work right, since you got like:

2716(25V VPP)
2716A(21V VPP)
2716B(12.7V VPP)
27C16(25V VPP)
27C16A(21V VPP)
27C16B(12.7 VPP)

which one are you suppose to use when doing Gottlieb Sys80b roms? cant find any info on the net.

#3962 19 days ago
Quoted from Luzur:

which one are you suppose to use when doing Gottlieb Sys80b roms?

It depends on which EPROM chips you have. Can you post clear pictures of the EPROMs showing model numbers and the silicon die in the window?

#3963 19 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

It depends on which EPROM chips you have. Can you post clear pictures of the EPROMs showing model numbers and the silicon die in the window?

Blank NEC D2716D 8423PX003, Japan made.

#3964 19 days ago
Quoted from Luzur:

Blank NEC D2716D 8423PX003, Japan made.

If they are genuine and not Chinese remarks then you need to select "2716(25V VPP)".
You should use an external power pack with the GQ-4X.
If the speed in the GQ-4X software is set to "+2" change it to "0" or "-1". 2716 chips need slow programming.

#3965 19 days ago

I just bought 5 of these from this guy and had absolutely no problem they were great. I have been experimenting with the code on my Raven and was able to burn and erase them no problems
ebay.com link » 5 St M2764a 2fi Sgs Thomson Uv Erasable Eprom 64k 8k X 8

needles to say it is what I thought you only get 5 letters with Raven in the start up display ....you can change it to Rambo but not predator

I find the 2764's a lot more reliable to burn for my machines the others give me issues and I have the gq4 x 4 programmer with an external power pack connected

plus I have a Monte Carlo and they work in that

#3966 19 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

If they are genuine and not Chinese remarks then you need to select "2716(25V VPP)".
You should use an external power pack with the GQ-4X.
If the speed in the GQ-4X software is set to "+2" change it to "0" or "-1". 2716 chips need slow programming.

Dunno where they are from, he provided them for me.

Quoted from the9gman:

I just bought 5 of these from this guy and had absolutely no problem they were great. I have been experimenting with the code on my Raven and was able to burn and erase them no problems
ebay.com link » 5 St M2764a 2fi Sgs Thomson Uv Erasable Eprom 64k 8k X 8
needles to say it is what I thought you only get 5 letters with Raven in the start up display ....you can change it to Rambo but not predator
I find the 2764's a lot more reliable to burn for my machines the others give me issues and I have the gq4 x 4 programmer with an external power pack connected
plus I have a Monte Carlo and they work in that

2764? you can use two 2764's in Sys80b? IIRC prom1 is a 2764 and Prom 2 is a 2716, but its been some time since i last burned Gottlieb roms so i could be wrong.

#3967 19 days ago

nope you are right.... prom 2 is a 2716 never had to reprogram those just verified them in the past never had a problem with them. just game prom one and the sound card proms

#3968 19 days ago

Also i should ask about 2764 aswell, 2764 (25V vpp) there aswell? i was gonna reburn only prom 2, but i might aswell reburn both of them.

#3969 19 days ago

12.5 vpp for the ones i got set by the device manager in the gq4 x 4 software and listed on the chips

#3970 19 days ago
Quoted from Luzur:

Also i should ask about 2764 aswell, 2764 (25V vpp) there aswell? i was gonna reburn only prom 2, but i might aswell reburn both of them.

Instead of using All/Generic Manufacturer settings, it's better if you select the actual chip manufacturer and the matching device model in the software so it can use the correct programming voltage for the specific chip.

So for the "NEC D2716D" chip you have, in the software select manufacturer "NEC" and chip device model "D2716".
No need to guess when the chip models are there and supported.

I don't think there are any 2764 with 25V programming. Most are 12.75V programming.

#3971 19 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Just a heads up. Wolff pax has diy displays for gottlieb games. I used Boston Pinball’s on my last projects so I haven’t used these yet but I have a set coming for my stern electronics game. I’ve heard good things!
https://www.wolffpactech.com/shop-2

Thanks for the head's up northvibe that's awesome! Any idea if he plans on doing the 7 digit as well? I also like that the segments are shaped the same as the Gottlieb original ones, details details.

#3972 18 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

Instead of using All/Generic Manufacturer settings, it's better if you select the actual chip manufacturer and the matching device model in the software so it can use the correct programming voltage for the specific chip.
So for the "NEC D2716D" chip you have, in the software select manufacturer "NEC" and chip device model "D2716".
No need to guess when the chip models are there and supported.
I don't think there are any 2764 with 25V programming. Most are 12.75V programming.

thanks, very useful info since i dont burn proms that often so i tend to forget stuff and have to look it up again LOL

#3973 18 days ago
Quoted from BorgDog:

Thanks for the head's up northvibe that's awesome! Any idea if he plans on doing the 7 digit as well? I also like that the segments are shaped the same as the Gottlieb original ones, details details.

When swapping to 7 segments, were they a gottlieb display or another brand?

#3974 18 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

When swapping to 7 segments, were they a gottlieb display or another brand?

I have not done any swaps from 6 to 7, just thinking for 80A games like Alien Star that have 7 digit displays.

#3975 18 days ago

I have a haunted house question, that I'm am hoping someone could help me with.
Number five kicking target (under upper playfield), had the wire from the coil to the switch disconnected. It was like this when I got the game. I hooked it back up and it proceeded to wipe out the switch matrix on the mpu. I rebuild it and got the game back up and running.
My question is, what can be shorted out? Everything looks good and is identical to the other kicking targets. Where would I begin to look for a possible short?

#3976 17 days ago

Working on a Triple Play, and have been getting it more and more reliable but still dogged by random resets... When they happen the displays fill with asterisks (but no TILT like I see when I trigger the slam and tilt switches so I don't think it's a problem with those), and the game drops back to game over mode.

It has an aftermarket MPU so that probably rules out half the causes. I've also completed replaced the contacts everywhere in the backbox harness, and replaced everything except the connector bodies for the inter-board harness. 5V power supply seems stable to me and is sitting at 5.1V. Did the ground mod down in the main cab and all of the grounds are bolted right to the power block frame. Replaced all of the contacts in the Molex connectors going up to the playfield and backbox from there too. I'm also going to do the ground chaining between the backbox boards, and replace that filter cap on the main power block.

The resets seem to happen mostly when flipping, particularly the left flipper... So I'm going to check the diodes on the switches. This is the only Gottlieb 80B I've worked on but am I right in assuming there should be capacitors on both the cabinet switches and EOS switches like you'd find on other manufacturers' pins? From looking at parts diagrams they seem like they're called for. They're absent on this pin, which doesn't surprise me given some of the other janky bullshit I'm finding. From reading back in older threads, and from working on other pins with similar issues, those missing caps seem likely to be part of the problem here.

Am I on the right track here? Any suggestions from experience as to other things to check?

#3977 17 days ago
Quoted from stumptown:

Working on a Triple Play, and have been getting it more and more reliable but still dogged by random resets... When they happen the displays fill with asterisks (but no TILT like I see when I trigger the slam and tilt switches so I don't think it's a problem with those), and the game drops back to game over mode.
It has an aftermarket MPU so that probably rules out half the causes. I've also completed replaced the contacts everywhere in the backbox harness, and replaced everything except the connector bodies for the inter-board harness. 5V power supply seems stable to me and is sitting at 5.1V. Did the ground mod down in the main cab and all of the grounds are bolted right to the power block frame. Replaced all of the contacts in the Molex connectors going up to the playfield and backbox from there too. I'm also going to do the ground chaining between the backbox boards, and replace that filter cap on the main power block.
The resets seem to happen mostly when flipping, particularly the left flipper... So I'm going to check the diodes on the switches. This is the only Gottlieb 80B I've worked on but am I right in assuming there should be capacitors on both the cabinet switches and EOS switches like you'd find on other manufacturers' pins? From looking at parts diagrams they seem like they're called for. They're absent on this pin, which doesn't surprise me given some of the other janky bullshit I'm finding. From reading back in older threads, and from working on other pins with similar issues, those missing caps seem likely to be part of the problem here.
Am I on the right track here? Any suggestions from experience as to other things to check?

Does the new MPU use the reset board? Just spit balling here.
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Reset_Board

Doing the board grounds would be where I'd start though.

#3979 17 days ago

when I have had problems like this it usually always involved game prom 1 , bad connections on daughter board or oxidized eprom pins . since you have an aftermarket mpu ...I would try cleaning and re-seating the game proms if you haven't tried that yet.

#3980 17 days ago
Quoted from Jahkub:

Does the new MPU use the reset board? Just spit balling here.
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Reset_Board
Doing the board grounds would be where I'd start though.

Nah it's just left disconnected per instructions. Specifically it's one of the Swemmer 80B boards, with a new set of ROMs installed. (https://ksarcade.net/system-80b-mpu.html).

Quoted from the9gman:

when I have had problems like this it usually always involved game prom 1 , bad connections on daughter board or oxidized eprom pins . since you have an aftermarket mpu ...I would try cleaning and re-seating the game proms if you haven't tried that yet.

Socketed chips are always one of the first things I suspect but in this case it's a new board, new (fancy, ZIF) socket, and new ROM, so I don't think there's an issue there. Had similar symptoms with the original MPU as well.

I think the backbox ground mods are gonna be the next thing. Given what I've already done to the game, and that the MPU is fresh, it seems like those grounds are the big likely cause remaining in play.

#3981 16 days ago

Went to work on my friends Roller disco. Rottendog driver board and the outhole kicker was staying locked.... rotten dog uses the 13N10L transistors, I don't have any on hand, and I'm assuming I'll have to replace with the same, no sub?
I'll replace the coil diode (1N4004) and transistor at the same time.

#3982 16 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Went to work on my friends Roller disco. Rottendog driver board and the outhole kicker was staying locked.... rotten dog uses the 13N10L transistors, I don't have any on hand, and I'm assuming I'll have to replace with the same, no sub?
I'll replace the coil diode (1N4004) and transistor at the same time.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mosfet-13n10l-subplease
Maybe this will help?

#3983 16 days ago

NICE! IRL540 and IRL530 will sub, and I have 540's from the stern stuff. Thank you!!!

#3984 16 days ago

curious on what everyone has their system 80b leveled at 5.5, 6, 6.5? wondering if I raise my monte carlo, will it speed up play but make it tougher to hit orbit and ramp?

#3985 16 days ago
Quoted from Bax1:

curious on what everyone has their system 80b leveled at 5.5, 6, 6.5? wondering if I raise my monte carlo, will it speed up play but make it tougher to hit orbit and ramp?

My Monte Carlo is jacked up pretty steep and fast. Not sure the exact incline, but I have no issues making any shots. My flippers have been recently rebuilt though.

#3986 16 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Went to work on my friends Roller disco. Rottendog driver board and the outhole kicker was staying locked.... rotten dog uses the 13N10L transistors, I don't have any on hand, and I'm assuming I'll have to replace with the same, no sub?
I'll replace the coil diode (1N4004) and transistor at the same time.

Replaced Q32 - outhole transistor and the coil diode (4004). Still the same issue. Boot the game, start a game and the outhole (ball trough) coil stays energized after it fires. I tested the coil via grounding the transistor tab and that works, ground tab coil fires, take off ground, coil stops.

It’s a rotten dog driver, any other ideas to check quick?

Edit: so even when I try and play, nothing is recognized, switch or coil. Maybe I’ll check out disabling the slam switch circuit

#3987 15 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

My Monte Carlo is jacked up pretty steep and fast. Not sure the exact incline, but I have no issues making any shots. My flippers have been recently rebuilt though.

I probably need to do a rebuild

#3988 14 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Just a heads up. Wolff pax has diy displays for gottlieb games. I used Boston Pinball’s on my last projects so I haven’t used these yet but I have a set coming for my stern electronics game. I’ve heard good things!
https://www.wolffpactech.com/shop-2

Has anyone on this forum thread put together the Gottlieb DIY displays from Wolftech yet?

I need to buy new displays for my Amazing Spider-Man restoration and am trying to decide between Wolftech and Boston.

On a related note, DIY blue displays from Pinitech (Uno) in my Power Play are a great addition to the backglass

#3989 14 days ago
Quoted from WhiskeyPinball:

Has anyone on this forum thread put together the Gottlieb DIY displays from Wolftech yet?
I need to buy new displays for my Amazing Spider-Man restoration and am trying to decide between Wolftech and Boston.
On a related note, DIY blue displays from Pinitech (Uno) in my Power Play are a great addition to the backglass

Boston Pinball stuff is great, but nothing really beats the original 6 digit displays. They are pretty easy to find on eBay.

#3990 14 days ago
Quoted from radial_head:

original 6 digit displays.

Damn near indestructible it seems, when something does go wrong usually minor so long as you haven't damaged a nipple.

#3991 14 days ago
Quoted from RWH:

Damn near indestructible it seems, when something does go wrong usually minor so long as you haven't damaged a nipple.

I just love the subtle motion and movement of the original 6 and 7 digit displays.

#3992 14 days ago
Quoted from RWH:

Damn near indestructible it seems, when something does go wrong usually minor so long as you haven't damaged a nipple.

That's what She said.

#3993 14 days ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Boston Pinball stuff is great, but nothing really beats the original 6 digit displays. They are pretty easy to find on eBay.

Quoted from WhiskeyPinball:

Has anyone on this forum thread put together the Gottlieb DIY displays from Wolftech yet?
I need to buy new displays for my Amazing Spider-Man restoration and am trying to decide between Wolftech and Boston.
On a related note, DIY blue displays from Pinitech (Uno) in my Power Play are a great addition to the backglass

On my last two sys1’s I did the all in one board and Boston pin led displays, they work great. I actually have a set of wolffpac displays for my stern galaxy I’m about to build. They seem really good but you save the money in trade for labor

#3994 14 days ago

Anybody have a spare system 80 pop bumper board they wouldn't mind letting go? Going to try and do the Haunted House VUK mod.

#3995 13 days ago
Quoted from WhiskeyPinball:

Has anyone on this forum thread put together the Gottlieb DIY displays from Wolftech yet?

I havent done the Gottlieb displays, but I have used his Bally display kit and have a 6803 kit coming. They are good quality and go together painlessly.

#3996 13 days ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Anybody have a spare system 80 pop bumper board they wouldn't mind letting go? Going to try and do the Haunted House VUK mod.

PM sent

#3997 10 days ago

Working out some bugs with my Black Hole pinball machine. Had just got done tracking down and repairing a dreaded GI short on the main play field, and decided to do some upgrades and bulletproofing while I had the play field removed. After my “ attempts” at bulletproofing and upgrades, I seem to have a couple of issues:

1. Right Side Flipper Issue: Currently the right side flippers are not operational when the flipper button is depressed. However is an significant arc / flash / spark that I can see (through ball guide crease) at the flipper switch — when pressed., and there is no flipper action. I found the one (1) solenoid had the coil diode backwards, but corrected it. Hopefully that did not cause board trouble. When the ball goes down to the lower playfield, the lower playfield right flipper is operational. It appears the U relay is okay (the contacts show normally closed as per the schematics ). Has anyone ever had this sparking issue at the flipper switch? Any suggestions?

2.) Up Kicker Not Strong Enough: The infamous up kicker strikes again. There was a A-1496 coil installed which was working great. Again I was going to upgrade and continue my bulletproofing (Bulletproofing = upgrading the power transistor and adding the pull up resistor, installed and wired a pop bumper driver board to prevent burn out/ meltdown / overheating, and upgraded the coil to the A-4893 coil). The pop bumper driver board was a suggestion found on Pin Lizards Black Hole / Haunted House Club manual. I am stumped why the up kicker lost the strength / power to shoot the ball up the ramp. Defective power transistor? Suggestions?

Going to cross post this over at Black Hole Club as well. If anyone could assist or provide some guidance or insight it would be greatly appreciated. I am so close to getting this machine running so I can enjoy it. I have learned so much, but still have so much more to learn. Thanks in advance for any and all help.

#3998 10 days ago

Snagged a Panthera today. Already cleaning up really nice. Before pics then the last one is after Novus 2

46704C0E-283C-4D05-AD93-20C3CF87CC5C (resized).jpeg7B7FF2B7-4240-4D81-9B4E-818489A5DE53 (resized).jpegFD933A55-D78A-42B5-BCDD-D289EAC4ADFE (resized).jpeg
#3999 8 days ago

damn sys1's....

Ok, so was working on roller disco again and now there are zero displays and the power plug going to the power supply board has zero power. However lights on the pf and backbox are on.

I tested the rectifiers in the cab and they test good.
I had just installed the 2 extra fuses to protect the small transformer. but it acts like zero volts coming out of it.
I tested resistance on the transformers
large transformer: 6v 1., 8v 1. 115 to com 1.
small trans, 115 to comm 4. , 69v 7.5 , 14v 1. 5v 1.

WIth the higher resistance on the 115v and 69v does that mean the small trans is done for? Is there a safe way to test for voltage before the plug but after the transformer?

#4000 8 days ago

Anyone have the aftermarket power supply in their game for sys 80? Is this how it should be attached to the bracket? Or should it be on the side closest to the middle of the back board?

9DAC8B35-D2CD-4C69-B3B8-70717D5E20C3 (resized).jpeg
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