(Topic ID: 73213)

Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)


By Gerry

5 years ago



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There are 3264 posts in this topic. You are on page 65 of 66.
#3201 34 days ago
Quoted from scraig314:

Just added a Big House to my collection. My first solid state Gottlieb. It needs work, but I got it for a bargain. Ordered whatever parts PBR had available in addition to a few boards that looked too toasty to repair. Some parts are no longer available like the motors so hopefully I can get the existing ones working smoothly. I figure I would check in because this group seems to have a great collection of minds![quoted image][quoted image]

Looking for some help on my Big House. I am missing the plexiglass Gottlieb logo that goes between the speakers behind the grille above the translight. Has anyone ever replaced this? Can I get a Gottlieb logo and put it on a piece of plexi?

Any help is appreciated.

#3202 31 days ago

Has anyone ever had any issues with using a reset generator on an 80B board? Here’s why I’m asking:

When I got my Monte Carlo, the board in it was toast from corrosion and I rehab’d it as a learning experience.

I had the board booting, playing, etc. but every few startups, the roulette wheel and some computer controlled lights would lock on, sometimes would kick a ball into the shooter lane. Restarting, everything was back to normal. Swapping in a known good MPU, it ran very reliably every time, so the driver board seemed good.

I used an MCP130 generator in the reset section. Somewhere I read that it changes the reset delay from something like 50ms to 150ms, which increases the “thunk” and that thunk can cause weirdness in different games depending on the solenoid setup (like the roulette wheel).

Given it happens intermittently at startup, I was considering rebuilding the reset section back to original spec to see what happens but wanted to see if anyone’s had a similar issue before doing so.

Thanks!

#3203 29 days ago

Free widebody glass if anyone wants it. Pretty decent shape. Some scratches but very usable. Came off my Devil’s Dare. 24.5” x 48.5”

Looking for pickup. If it’s not gone in a week I’ll consider shipping. I have a nice box for it.

Asbury Park ... down the street from The Silverball Museum.

259DB00F-DA30-4A55-9865-2AAF6EBEC227 (resized).jpeg
Added 19 days ago:

Gone to a good home.

#3204 25 days ago
Quoted from pincity:

Has anyone ever had any issues with using a reset generator on an 80B board? Here’s why I’m asking:
When I got my Monte Carlo, the board in it was toast from corrosion and I rehab’d it as a learning experience.
I had the board booting, playing, etc. but every few startups, the roulette wheel and some computer controlled lights would lock on, sometimes would kick a ball into the shooter lane. Restarting, everything was back to normal. Swapping in a known good MPU, it ran very reliably every time, so the driver board seemed good.
I used an MCP130 generator in the reset section. Somewhere I read that it changes the reset delay from something like 50ms to 150ms, which increases the “thunk” and that thunk can cause weirdness in different games depending on the solenoid setup (like the roulette wheel).
Given it happens intermittently at startup, I was considering rebuilding the reset section back to original spec to see what happens but wanted to see if anyone’s had a similar issue before doing so.
Thanks!

Hi,
Why do you use an MCP130 because usually we put an MCP100 instead ?

The difference between the MCP100 and the MCP130 is that the first is a "normal" output and the second one is an open collector .

The original reset circuit uses a 4081 whose outputs are not open collectors.
2019-11-13_08h53_07 (resized).png
Indeed, if we look closely at the 4081 documentation, we see that the outputs are driven to "+" and to "-" by two transistors. Luckily, CMOS technology is quite resilient to short circuits, and an output accidentally set to the wrong potential does not necessarily burn the output transistor.
2019-11-13_08h51_50 (resized).png
The additional RESET card that was added (later for the first SYSTEM-80s) does not really help. Moreover, its implementation is doubtful, because despite the addition of a diode acting as open collector, it prevents that in case of reset, the output of the 4081 will be short circuit! Admittedly, it works, but it's still a DIY "made in Gottlieb".
2019-11-13_08h54_36 (resized).png
Poor design, but the main thing to note is that there is no pull-up resistance on the RES line .

So, if you use an MCP130 , don't forget to add a pull-up resistor, otherwise, the RES line will be unstable.

Both MCP100 and MCP130 have a reset delay of 350 ms, that is not abnormal.

The "schlank" at startup is due to another misconception or the driver board. Not visible on the very first SYSTEM-80, it became obvious when they started using lamp outputs to drive coils. There are several solutions to remedy this problem, one of them using MCP100 has been described on our site:
https://www.flipprojets.fr/AntiSchlank_EN.php

#3205 25 days ago

@noflip95 thanks for the in-depth reply - and your dedication to these great machines .

I believe I used an MCP130 because there was no MCP100 available at the time. However, looking at the data sheet it looks like there’s an internal 5k pull-up on the reset line of the MCP130 from what I can see:

https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/268/11184d-68220.pdf

-----------

Thanks for the info on the driver mod. Before making any additional modifications...

Given that the board having issues is the one that was repaired, and the known good one workes fine (even with unmodified driver board), my approach is that I wanted to get the boards back as close to identical as possible since the only difference that I’m aware of component wise is the reset circuitry.

By setting the boards identically, I’m hoping to uncover whether the observed issue is attributed to the difference in the reset circuitry and/or some other gremlin introduced during repair that I haven’t yet uncovered.

#3206 25 days ago

Indeed! I read too fast the MCP120/130 datasheet. MCP130 has internal pull-up (MCP-120 don't).
Dallas DS1233 may also be an alternative. Sure that replacing the old/complex reset circuitry (when defective) with an EconoReset is the good solution. Once done, never revert back to the original, because it will probably cause more problems (damaged cooper tracks).
Even if this modification now cause a "schlank" at startup, it's by far better to fix the driver, than reverting to the old MPU reset.
On our site, we use an MCP100 for the reset of 74175 on the driver board, but of course, you can also use MCP130 if you have some in stock.

#3207 23 days ago

Can someone confirm the orientation of VR1 the 3.0v zener diode on a system 80b board? The original one had gotten hot enough to remove the banded marking. It isn't marked on the PCB and the docs I've seen aren't clear.

That is the last part I need to reinstall then I can see if this night moves machine will work again.

#3208 22 days ago

Working on a Genesis with system 80B boards. Get message "Tilt switch closed". Game will not start or go into test mode. All tilt switches have been checked. Any ideas? Also checked all switches to make sure they were open.
thx

#3209 22 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Can someone confirm the orientation of VR1 the 3.0v zener diode on a system 80b board? The original one had gotten hot enough to remove the banded marking. It isn't marked on the PCB and the docs I've seen aren't clear.
That is the last part I need to reinstall then I can see if this night moves machine will work again.

Found a couple of photos in this thread of a system 80B that showed the way that diode is installed. I was able to finish the board repairs and get the game to boot. I can now coin up and press the button to start a game but it won't play a game. It looks like someone messed with the opto sensor for the ball return and I don't think it is right. If I can get past that then it may work.

#3210 22 days ago

My pascal boards showed up while I was gone for my pinball pool and joker poker!!! Super excited to get those rolling

#3211 22 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Found a couple of photos in this thread of a system 80B that showed the way that diode is installed. I was able to finish the board repairs and get the game to boot. I can now coin up and press the button to start a game but it won't play a game. It looks like someone messed with the opto sensor for the ball return and I don't think it is right. If I can get past that then it may work.

Rebuilt the opto sensors and got the game going! Replaced about a dozen lamps and now it works as it should.

#3212 21 days ago

If anyone is interested in a replacement ramp for Monte Carlo, shoot me a PM to get on the list. I will probably have some ready in the next two weeks. $50 plus shipping. Also doing Tx Sector if the local person I know is still interested in helping.

#3213 21 days ago

Hi! I would like to order two of them. tntquality@aol.com Todd Need them for spares!

#3214 21 days ago

Hey guys just want to get a few opinions. I'm going to rebuild the flippers on my Star Race and ordered the kits from PBR; well I just noticed they do not have the shaft in them, do you think it's important to change those as well? The only thing I thought could be wrong with the old would be indentations from set screws so if that's good what else could there be?

#3215 20 days ago

Does any board repair shop or company buy old board sets?
I have 2 sys1 games and am replacing all boards and all displays. And while the stock boards may not be worth a lot it would be nice to offset the cost of the new gear and pass boards on to someone.

#3216 20 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Does any board repair shop or company buy old board sets?
I have 2 sys1 games and am replacing all boards and all displays. And while the stock boards may not be worth a lot it would be nice to offset the cost of the new gear and pass boards on to someone.

Put them up for sale on the site. I'd bet someone on here will purchase them.

#3217 20 days ago
Quoted from RWH:

Put them up for sale on the site. I'd bet someone on here will purchase them.

Ya, totally can. Only issue I see, are people wanting 1 board. Where I would rather sell everything in a group. However I can list my FS ad to say "set". Also I'm not looking to do tests to my boards, so a repair person would be best suited.

#3218 18 days ago
Quoted from izzy:

Working on a Genesis with system 80B boards. Get message "Tilt switch closed". Game will not start or go into test mode. All tilt switches have been checked. Any ideas? Also checked all switches to make sure they were open.
thx

Did you check the relay on far back of playfield? I have bumped this relay on more than one occasion on various 80bs I own while working on playfield raised against back box.

#3219 18 days ago

I did check the relay and all tilt switches.
thx

#3220 18 days ago
Quoted from izzy:

I did check the relay and all tilt switches.
thx

Same thing on my Raven. I was stumped so I had a tech come over. He just pulled a wire from one of the connectors.
I checked & have continuity between the two parts of the plumb bob assembly. Since the wire's been pulled from the connector, there must be a short in the wiring.

#3221 18 days ago

Man this board looks so lonely.

Added fuses to the small transformer too

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#3222 17 days ago

Lol yeah I've noticed that the heads look empty after you install a pascal system.

#3223 17 days ago
Quoted from RWH:

Lol yeah I've noticed that the heads look empty after you install a pascal system.

haha, yup. Luckily it is a good thing I'll be selling this Pinball Pool, so it should make a solid game with pascal and new BP led displays.

Just fyi, boston pinball is making new led displays for sys1/sys80, so if you wanted them, contact them!

#3224 17 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

I'll be selling this Pinball Pool, so it should make a solid game with pascal and new BP led displays.

Boy the price of that Pascal board is gonna eat a lot of potential profit isn't it?

#3225 17 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Just fyi, boston pinball is making new led displays for sys1/sys80, so if you wanted them, contact them!

I'll check that out, be nice if they were just plug -n- play!

#3226 17 days ago
Quoted from RWH:

Boy the price of that Pascal board is gonna eat a lot of potential profit isn't it?

Potentially. As long as I get what I have into the game out, I'm fine, not looking to make money. I'd rather sell a solid/reliable game vs the hassle of rebuilding the stock boards and then dealing with some crazy issues. This is why I wanted to sell the stock board/display sets.

#3227 13 days ago

I was able to get my night moves up and running well. The MPUnwas repaired, NVRAM added, and repinned connectors for the MPU board. It's been playing solid but it seeemed to hang and reset. I haven't replaced any caps yet or done any mods other than the NVRAM. I'm not sure yet if the pop bumper board mods apply or if ground mods need to be done.

#3228 11 days ago

Anyone know where I can find a Bad Girls pool Playfield window? NOS or if anyone is willing to part theirs out

Parts - Wanted
Wanted! “Looking for a Pool Playfield Window -Part #26137”
11 days ago
Vienna, VA
Wanted

#3229 11 days ago
Quoted from jugood20:

Anyone know where I can find a Bad Girls pool Playfield window? NOS or if anyone is willing to part theirs out

This one?

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/26104

Parts - Wanted

Wanted: Bad Girls Pool Playfield Window

New!

Wanted! “Looking for a Pool Playfield Window -Part #26137”

4 hours ago

Vienna, VA

Wanted

jugood20

#3230 11 days ago

Interesting problem I have been chasing and finally a resolution. Perhaps this will help another Gottlieb owner in the future.

One of the pop bumpers looked.. slower than the others is the only way I think I could describe it. Almost like it was hanging up when the coil was released. I had the assembly apart a few times and installed new parts but nothing seemed to really totally fix the issue. Tonight I took it apart one more time and noticed when I reassembled that the plunger was not totally making contact with the stop. The hat or link under the fiber was making contact with the plunger bracket.

It would make sense it is binding up as when the plunger is all the way down it is being forced to one side when it came in contact with the bracket. When the coil released, it was bound up against the side of the sleeve and takes a split second to release.

Grinding off the point of the piece gave me about 1/8" of clearance and it no longer binds up, a noticeable improvement when playing.

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#3233 10 days ago

That’s the pool Playfield. I’m looking for the playfield window (I believe it’s plexiglass) that sits on the Playfield

#3234 10 days ago

northvibe

Quoted from jugood20:That’s the pool Playfield. I’m looking for the playfield window (I believe it’s plexiglass) that sits on the Playfield

#3235 10 days ago

Ohhh ok. Any chance you have a part number?

#3236 10 days ago

Found it in the manual

26137

Have you asked Steve at the pinball resource? Mmm is it similar to black hole or haunted house? If it is, you could ask someone who cuts those if they can cut a clear one

#3237 10 days ago

Yeah, I checked with PBR, he said he hasn’t had that part in quite some time. I haven’t thought of using Black Hole or Haunted House Playfield window as an alternative-can you still get NOS for those parts? I’ve also considered getting some clear plexiglass that someone could cut or find a shop (3D printer shop?) that can recreate one for me, but don’t know where to start. Any ideas?

Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!

Quoted from northvibe:

Found it in the manual
26137
Have you asked Steve at the pinball resource? Mmm is it similar to black hole or haunted house? If it is, you could ask someone who cuts those if they can cut a clear one

#3238 10 days ago
Quoted from jugood20:

Yeah, I checked with PBR, he said he hasn’t had that part in quite some time. I haven’t thought of using Black Hole or Haunted House Playfield window as an alternative-can you still get NOS for those parts? I’ve also considered getting some clear plexiglass that someone could cut or find a shop (3D printer shop?) that can recreate one for me, but don’t know where to start. Any ideas?
Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!

Dang Steve usually has the hard to find parts. Things like this window are sooooo easy to remake, kind of saddens me someone doesn’t actively have it, even though the game may not be popular. Let me grab the info where I got my BH window.

CPR

https://classicplayfields.com/shop/pinball-miscellaneous/blackholewindow/

Bay Area has some too.

If it is the same window as Bh all the shop would have to do is cut a clear one. It’s a thick plexi or poly carb I think.

I looked more, BAd girls looks smaller and with more of an angle. Dang. Well you can buy some plexi or poly carb and trace your own out. Then use a band saw, dremel or jig to cut it out.

#3239 10 days ago

Thank you so much for the information, very much appreciated.

Quoted from northvibe:

Dang Steve usually has the hard to find parts. Things like this window are sooooo easy to remake, kind of saddens me someone doesn’t actively have it, even though the game may not be popular. Let me grab the info where I got my BH window.
CPR
https://classicplayfields.com/shop/pinball-miscellaneous/blackholewindow/
Bay Area has some too.
If it is the same window as Bh all the shop would have to do is cut a clear one. It’s a thick plexi or poly carb I think.
I looked more, BAd girls looks smaller and with more of an angle. Dang. Well you can buy some plexi or poly carb and trace your own out. Then use a band saw, dremel or jig to cut it out.

#3240 8 days ago

Helping a buddy with a spiderman. MPU looks like some acid damage. I dont know much about Amazing Spiderman but should get send board for repair? Is there anything new avail?

#3241 8 days ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Helping a buddy with a spiderman. MPU looks like some acid damage. I dont know much about Amazing Spiderman but should get send board for repair? Is there anything new avail?

Going to depend on how bad the damage is and yes new boards are available. Picture?

#3242 8 days ago

There is a guide/how to on the forum for cleaning up acid damage. I'll try to find it.

I guess it wasn't much of a guide, but tips
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stripping-battery-corrosion-with-a-strong-acid

Some board repair people will do work on an acid damage, but if it is bad they'll recommend just going with a replacement.

Otherwise there are a few options for new boards

Ni-wumf
Rottendog
Swemmer

If your friend wants to keep the game. I suggest going with Pascal's all in one. I had one for BH, and now two sys1's. Adds menu, features and new components.

All-in-one
Pi-80
https://www.flippp.fr/pi80.php

#3243 8 days ago
Quoted from jugood20:

Anyone know where I can find a Bad Girls pool Playfield window? NOS or if anyone is willing to part theirs out

Gottlieb was rather thrifty with things I bet its the same window as Genesis just flipped 180. If thats the case there ought to be a window out there somewhere. I don't have a Bad Girls to compare though. I bought a new window years ago from pinbits but they are sold out.

#3244 8 days ago
Quoted from 20eyes:

Gottlieb was rather thrifty with things I bet its the same window as Genesis just flipped 180. If thats the case there ought to be a window out there somewhere. I don't have a Bad Girls to compare though. I bought a new window years ago from pinbits but they are sold out.

AAAHHHHHH HAHAHAH I bet you are right!

And I just google'foo'ed and found the other supplier, Pinbits !! they do all the protective plastic sets and did the BH/HH windows etc

They have a Genesis window (in smoke)
https://www.pinbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=520&zenid=ee7267e1a040d6e7c64bec8d0405eec6

They are Marco are sold out, however I'd contact both and see if they'll be cutting more. They may of just not sold enough to do a run.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/25049

#3245 8 days ago

If someone can measure Bad Girls I can Check Genesis. If they decided to re run them I'll buy another one. My original was broken and went in the trash long ago.

#3246 7 days ago

I can measure my Bad Girls Playfield Window tomorrow and reply back with the measurements. Thanks

Quoted from 20eyes:

If someone can measure Bad Girls I can Check Genesis. If they decided to re run them I'll buy another one. My original was broken and went in the trash long ago.

#3247 6 days ago

Here are the rough dimensions for the Bad Girls Playfield Window:

Top: 3 5/8 inches
Bottom : 7 7/8 inches
Sides: 9 3/8 inches

Thanks

Quoted from jugood20:

I can measure my Bad Girls Playfield Window tomorrow and reply back with the measurements. Thanks

#3248 6 days ago
Quoted from jugood20:

Here are the rough dimensions for the Bad Girls Playfield Window:
Top: 3 5/8 inches
Bottom : 7 7/8 inches
Sides: 9 3/8 inches
Thanks

If I measure just the flats not counting the radius on the corners I get the same measurements on Genesis. 9" long overall

#3249 6 days ago

Probably the same then, I was only counting the flats. Great to hear that they are the same. Is there anywhere to purchase the genesis playfield window?

Quoted from 20eyes:

If I measure just the flats not counting the radius on the corners I get the same measurements on Genesis. 9" long overall

#3250 6 days ago

Picked up a Genie over the Thanksgiving weekend. Planning on putting a pascal board in it and getting it cleaned / fixed up. Backglass isn't the worst I've ever seen, but I'd like to find a better backglass. Anyone have a nice one they'd sell?

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