Nice! I've always loved the art on that game.

Looks like they disconnected it to prevent accidentally locking it (did it have a key?) then strapped it to the other part so it wouldn’t get lost until someone wanted to repair (like you!)

Hey srcdude! Yeah, the lock was completely removed. Maybe I should be careful adding it back. I'd hate to lock myself out of the backbox...but I can't resist...must repair...OCD kicking in. Good observation!

Any suggestions out there? Looking to have a Gottlieb Rock Game Rom burned that has Freeplay patch installed.

https://www.flipprojets.fr/Proms80B_EN.php

That looks stunning - super work!

Added a new game to my Gottlieb early solid state lineup today ... Mars God of War

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I have a tech issue with my Night Moves and I hope I can get some insight from the team. Here's what the lower rollover R-O-C-K lights look like at the start of each ball:

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The R light works, but it behaves opposite of all the others. The O-C-K lights start lit and, when their switches are activated, they go out. The R starts unlit and when its switch is activated, it turns on.

What's up with that? Is there a dipswitch or something I should adjust?

So nobody knows why my board won't boot with the diode for TC1 in place? It's the same if the reset board is plugged in or not. If the diode across the pins on TC1 is present it doesn't boot.

Anybody use the test boards from http://www.flipprojets.fr? I'd like to grab a couple but they are unresponsive to my messages and mostly out of stock. I'd love an opinion if I should pursue this

I tried an incandescent bulb and a different LED bulb in the same socket and got the same result. I also tried the same LED bulb in a different socket and it works fine. What's really weird is that during attract mode and other light shows, it behaves fine - it only functions in reverse during gameplay.

So i've got some additional info on this issue I'm having. Apparently the 2 insert (lamp 34) will turn off when lamp 45 turns on. This is true even if lamp 34 is supposed to be on, it will still turn off if lamp 45 turns on. I put the oscilliscope on 2 of the leads on Q35 (the transistor for lamp 34) and in attract mode I can see the transistor turning on and off. Same in test mode. I can even pause the test in test mode and see the transistor turn on/off. Or at least i can see the 2 pins go high at the same time and then back to low. Perhaps I'm not understanding things right there.

Either way how could it be possible for this lamp to be on all the time except when lamp 45 turns on? How would lamp 45 turning on turn off lamp 34? If these lamps were on the same IC i'd suspect the IC but they're on totally different chips. I'm well past my current electronics knowledge here and hoping a more seasoned vet can enlighten me.

I haven't tried that yet because i wanted to exhaust my options before i had to unsolder the lamp socket again to change the bulb. I would think it would be the same but I'll let you know when i get to a chance to test that.

One more thing I just found out. Looking at the other transistors there's a sine wave present on one of the pins while the transistor is off. When the transistor is on this pin goes low. The problem transistor does not have this sine wave and instead is always low. When the other pin goes high the pin that should have the sine wave goes high as well.

A question for you guys..

I have a friend of mine who has quite the stash of system 80 games (Pink Panther, James Bond, and Circus), and we were discussing the finish on the playfields. Did Gottlieb put any kind of clear coat on these games before they left factory?

I was under the impression that the industry practice at the time was just to paint the playfield. He seems to think there was some kind of lacquer applied at the factory. He would like to do some clear coating of the playfields, but he is concerned that if there is lacquer, it will react with the new clearcoat.

So i put incandescents back in. Actually didn't have to unsolder the wires since i rerouted the wire when i changed the lamp before. Actually gave me room to bend the bracket enough to change lamps. Regardless it didn't change anything. Same behavior with no LEDs in the machine. At this point I'm pretty sure Q35 is bad but I don't understand why the insert turns off when Q46 turns on. Below are some images of my readings with the scope. I can't figure out how to comment around the pictures so I'll just describe them below as well.

Edit: Oh one thing I forgot to mention is that using my DMM I get values within spec and that match other transitors for Q35. Can it still be bad and read the correct values in diode test?

Images
1. Q36 off
2. Q36 on (collector goes low when base goes high)
3. Q35 off (both collector and base low. This is also what it looks like when Q46 is "active")
4. Q35 on (base goes high and collector goes up slightly. I assume from leakage?)

Channel 1 Config
Position: Top
Setting: 2 volts/div
Pin: Base

Channel 2 Config
Position: Bottom
Setting: 5 volts/div
Pin: Emitter

Spring Break Q36 off (resized).jpg

Spring Break Q36 on (resized).jpg

Spring Break Q35 off (resized).jpg

Spring Break Q35 on (resized).jpg

Cannot answer if system 80's had clear lacquer on them or not. I have always believed they did.
I have had 4 system 80s, an 80A and an 80B.

I clear coated a Volcano ( 80A) with 2K 2PAC and it looks fabulous.Look for it in the Volcano club thread.
I clear coated a Circus with Varethane and it looked fabulous.
They both were very colorful games and stood up well. I still have the Volcano.

Absolutely they did. Easy way to tell is if you have insert wear you can see the clear on the insert will be worn away around the edges. It's noticeable on my Counterforce.

Gut feel it that there shouldn’t be any sine waves anywhere. Hard to tell from the picture but looks like the “sine” wave is rectified... ie bottom half of the sine wave is flipped up to positive (by the bridge rectifier) and its a series of bumps... not a sine wave. Anyway, that signal should be relatively flat. A capacitor should be in the path to hold the bumps at the top end of that voltage with only a little ripple across the top.

So I’d say your bottom two photos look more like what I’d expect to see... flat signals with no oscillations superimposed .

If you are applying an oscillating level to the bulbs, then from “dc” point of view it will see the average of that voltage level somewhere in the middle... what is the voltage level on the dvm when you measure it when on and off?

I’d need to dig or maybe someone can chime in but I would expect all levels to be flat dc levels. Maybe not general illumination, but certainly all the stuff controlled by circuit board electronics (and I really think GI is dc too).

So... I’d check caps that are on the voltage supplies that are supposed to turn your rippling rectified voltage signal into flat dc.

If for some reason they are really applying oscillating levels to lightbulbs then I’d check ground connections between boards because the ground level will determine where the average voltage of the oscillating signal will level out at.

Hope that helps

There are no capacitors for the lights or even coils for that matter. Gottlieb engineering was very special apparently. The only capacitors are for 12v and 5v logic from what I can tell. I guess this explains why my meter would get readings anywhere between 24v (which is what it is labeled as in the schematics) and 37v for coils when I was trying to diagnose things before.

Quick question. Does the head on Gottlieb Spiderman come off, or fold down? This will make a difference on how I need to plan to pick one up.
Thanks!

The head has four bolts that hold it on, just be sure to unplug your harnesses and color code if you're not familiar with Gottlieb 80's pins.

Those bolts are readily accessible behind the back glass in the head.

What category of display issue might this fall under? It’s the only display doing this.

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Hey everyone, new to this club with a recent Gold Wings purchase. Cleaned it up this week and was playing the hell out of it tonight, then this trough coil locked up. Looking through the manual, I’m not sure what this is called specifically or where it’s located on the schematics. Initial thought is the transistor went out.
Anyone know what this is officially called so I can find it in the schematics and try to find the transistor to test?

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That would be the ball release.
Check the transistor under the playfield.
Also check the pull-up resistor.
Otherwise is could be L12 (Q13) on the driver board.

Goldwings (resized).jpg

I think this is the transistor you’re referring to. I tested it a few different ways and only get a reading when the positive is on the emitter. I feel like I should be getting a read with the negative lead from the meter on the casing and the positive lead on the pins but I’m probably wrong.

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I just realized I was testing it backwards. In the pic I’m testing PNP. This is NPN.

I’m so used to Bally this Gottlieb has me mixed up. Im getting 620-640 readings both ways. I’m assuming this transistor is fine.

Did you see if the coil is getting power? If not it's probably the fuse under the playfield. There should be a fuse that protects that coil and 1 other coil. Gottliebs have a crap ton of fuses.

It locks on. Fuses are good. Under playfield transistor and Q13 on board test fine. I took the board out and reflowed the solder on the transistor just to be sure there wasn’t any cracks after they tested ok. I’m guessing there’s a short somewhere??? Still trying to find the resistor mentioned earlier.

Tried manually grounding transistors. No changes.

EDIT: I pulled the board again to test the resistors and tried Q13 again. I’m getting readings at 900 on both E and C. Looks like I found the problem. Thanks guys

ok searching online for NPN 40v 2amp transistors and getting some crazy results... seems like this transistor isnt as popular as others and the prices are all over the place. Where are you guys finding this particular one for MPS-U45? Any compatible replacements?

The current replacement is CEN-U45 and only available from mouser, digikey or futureelectronics. I've never heard of the last one but they have the cheapest price and I was probably going to be ordering from them sometime in the future.

https://www.futureelectronics.com/p/discretes--transistors--bipolar-transistors/cen-u45-central-semiconductor-4957429

It's PNP

I noticed the knocker is missing it’s fuse on this Gold Wings. I’m still learning how to read schematics, could someone confirm if I traced the knocker to a 8amp fuse?

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That fuse covers the 24v dc for all of the coils. There's a box at the bottom underneath the fuse you circled that outlines what all the fuses are in the bottom of the cabinet.

I was looking at that but still couldn’t determine what size fuse it’s takes from what’s listed.

That being said I’m not recognizing how that indicates it’s the fuse for all coils. I’m trying to make sense of what I’m seeing here but it’s not clicking.

Ah ok yeah it requires an 8 amp slow blow. I'm going by what the box says since it says "solenoids +24vdc" that means that it's for all the coils. That fuse goes to the bridge just to the right of it to generate the 24vdc and it appears it also connects in parallel to send 27vac to the playfield for some reason.

Ok so it does take an 8 amp fuse, perfect thanks! but how I traced it wasn’t correct. I noticed the line from the knocker goes to the bridge but that was the only fuse connected to something the wire from the knocker had. Is it me or is there not a fuse drawn for the knocker?
I guess this is where I get so discouraged by these things.

Most games don't have a lot of fuses and the fuses protect multiple things. Though Gottlieb games do tend to have a crap ton of fuses and fuse either individual coils or a couple of coils together. Coil fuses are mostly on the underside of the playfield. I'm going to bet that the knocker coil though doesn't have it's own fuse since it's not a "playfield" coil. Your manual should outline all of the fuses and what they do. You shouldn't need to read the schematic to figure that out.

Yes, you are correct.
The knocker is the number one burned coil in Gottlieb games.
Most of the time when you get a Gottlieb game the knocker has been cut or burned nice and crispy.
It's one of the coils Gottlieb didn't fuse seperatly.
Just add a fuseholder near the knocker coil and put in a 1A slo-blo fuse.

And yes, the 8amp fuse is the main fuse for ALL the coils.

I’m in with the Increadable Hulk. $300 needed a power supply and a good cleaning

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Nice score on Hulk. I just got mine together yesterday after a few months in the shop.

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The sound went out on my Buck Rogers machine when I turned it on today. I've had it for a couple of months without any other problems. Everything is original except for a Ni-Wumpf CPU board and the LED lights I put in. There still is the normal humming sound coming out of the speaker. I've check the 1 amp sound fuse in the bottom board and reseated J1 in the power supply, J1 in the sound board and J6 in the CPU board. Anything else I should check?

Hi all,

I'm working on a Haunted House and I am getting a low resistance reading on the main playfield flipper coils: about 1.6 ohms. Is this normal?

When turning on Gold Wings, I usually see all the flasher bulbs turn on, hear the fan in the siren for a split second, then some kind of beep boop noise from a board, then it goes into attract mode. Every once in a while Ill turn it on and the flashers stay lit and the siren starts going and it just stays like that, doesn't finishing booting so I turn it off and back on again a few times then it boots. I thought reseating the PROM 1 and PROM 2 on the MPU might help but it still intermittently does this. Also every once in a while mid game itll reboot, only has happened twice. But rebooting 2 times in 10 days seems like enough to be considered a problem.

Any other chips I should reseat or any connectors I should consider looking at in the back box?

The manual has a coil chart and lists the A-17875 main at 2.8 ohms. It is possible someone put higher power/lower ohm coils in.