(Topic ID: 73213)

Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)

By Gerry

10 years ago


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#2451 5 years ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

Ground mods are not needed in those late system 80B games. Especially using the 5V heatsink as a groundplane is WRONG. Is there 5V present over the 100uF cap on the CPU board?

I was recommended to cut all of the molex plugs that ground into the metal box the transformer and ground them directly to the plate, which is what I did tonight.

I don’t know how to measure the 5v, I’ve looked all over on pinwiki and I have a multimeter I’m just unsure. Am I supposed to put the test probes directly on to the legs of the cap? I don’t have a strong electrical background unfortunately so finding these test points has been a struggle. Also I was trying to find more guidance on checking the voltages on the soundboard :/

#2452 5 years ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

I was recommended to cut all of the molex plugs that ground into the metal box the transformer and ground them directly to the plate, which is what I did tonight.
I don’t know how to measure the 5v, I’ve looked all over on pinwiki and I have a multimeter I’m just unsure. Am I supposed to put the test probes directly on to the legs of the cap? I don’t have a strong electrical background unfortunately so finding these test points has been a struggle. Also I was trying to find more guidance on checking the voltages on the soundboard :/

Gottlieb used decent connectors at those later system 80 games; 0.156KK with trifurcated crimp terminals at the transformer assy. Just repin those if you are in doubt a next time.

You know where to find the +5V powersupply with the heatsink? It has 2 connectors; the outgoing +5V side is where a little potmeter is located. Put the leads from your multimeter in the 2 most outer pins. It should read 12V (or -12V with the leads reversed). If present, put the black lead in the pin where the white wire goes in at the incoming side and put the black lead in one of the pins at the putgoing side. It should read +5V or something close tpo that (> 4.9V, < 5.2V). If present put the 2 testleads from your multimeter over the 100uF cap close to the small power connectpr on the MPU. It should read +5V again. If a voltage is missing, check your freshly made connections at the transformer assy (pull at those wires), and also the +12V fuse at the transformer assy.

Hope this helps….

#2453 5 years ago

Would anyone in the room have a CHICAGO CUBS in French, or German?

Usually, we see it when we go to the TEST menu and the texts are in French/German.

#2454 5 years ago

Can anyone tell me if there is a way to see if the signal is getting to the sound board on a sys 1?

#2455 5 years ago

So I just watched Bowen's new Papa tutorial on Sinbad (

) and it got me thinking of a modification. I'm currently putting back together a Sinbad and plan to put a LISY board in for the MPU which would allow me to recode it however I wanted. What would you think of adding in a spinner bonus like somewhat later gottliebs where if you go through the inlane when lit it would light the spinner for mega points for a few seconds? kind of like on alien star or arena or several others. of course there are no standard inlanes on this so the rollover on the right when lit (clear the yellow drops I believe to light) for 5000 when rolled over would then flash one of the advance lights by the spinner (maybe the add bonus light) for say 5 seconds which would then score say 10,000 a spin (or 1000 times current bonusX or something). I'm thinking it would actually give you a reason to hit the spinner other than it just being cool. I'm not looking to totally change the game just enhance it.

What do you guys think?

#2456 5 years ago
Quoted from BorgDog:

So I just watched Bowen's new Papa tutorial on Sinbad ( ) and it got me thinking of a modification. I'm currently putting back together a Sinbad and plan to put a LISY board in for the MPU which would allow me to recode it however I wanted. What would you think of adding in a spinner bonus like somewhat later gottliebs where if you go through the inlane when lit it would light the spinner for mega points for a few seconds? kind of like on alien star or arena or several others. of course there are no standard inlanes on this so the rollover on the right when lit (clear the yellow drops I believe to light) for 5000 when rolled over would then flash one of the advance lights by the spinner (maybe the add bonus light) for say 5 seconds which would then score say 10,000 a spin (or 1000 times current bonusX or something). I'm thinking it would actually give you a reason to hit the spinner other than it just being cool. I'm not looking to totally change the game just enhance it.
What do you guys think?

You can try it and see how it plays out.

I'm waiting to get some hinks worked out in my own Solar Ride LISY project before doing such "minor" rules changes, although I also realized they're kind of needed now that I've uncapped the extra balls. :/

#2457 5 years ago

So I picked up my first pin, arena and by doing some looking it looks like I joined this club. The flippers and the slings are not working. The ground mod has been done and everything seems to work just fine with the exception of the flippers and the slings. I've checked all the fuses by pulling them and checking continuity with my meter. I don't have any voltage at any of the coils but don't know if I'm even checking it right. Any advice to point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

#2458 5 years ago

I would check votage at each side of the fuses while powered up also. Could be a bad fuse holder. Also did you check for fuses under the playfield?

#2459 5 years ago

Each side of the fuse block that is.

#2460 5 years ago

Looking for some guidance. Had a party and Solar Ride was on for 1.5 hours. Played fine until near the end of that time. Then it started making these weird squelching sounds. It also lost the free play setting, but I could add credits and get a game to start. The bad sound persisted. Original board with 7404/7405 replaced and battery damage repaired. Power supply has NOT had caps replaced. Sound board is brand new from Boston Pinball. Everything worked fine before and during most of the party. Just happened near the end. I suspect the power supply, have the kit and will replace the caps.....but wonder if there is something else. I also plan to repin connectors. Video below of the sounds.... https://www.facebook.com/scott.guthrie.779/videos/2050609218325347/

#2461 5 years ago

Just hope the battery damage is not continuing. If it wasn't completely dealt with it will return.

#2462 5 years ago

Anyone have a good photo of a SYS80B MPU with ground mods? Where exactly does the ground mod solder in? The photo on pinwiki isn't so clear to me.

#2463 5 years ago
Quoted from Friengineer:

Anyone have a good photo of a SYS80B MPU with ground mods? Where exactly does the ground mod solder in? The photo on pinwiki isn't so clear to me.

The MPU isn't that different in 80B. The ground mod goes in the same place. http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Gtb_sys80a_cpu_brd_grd.JPG

#2464 5 years ago
Quoted from Friengineer:

Anyone have a good photo of a SYS80B MPU with ground mods? Where exactly does the ground mod solder in? The photo on pinwiki isn't so clear to me.

You're not the only one! The ground mod thing has me confused as well. I had to wing it mostly. Upon completion now my game doesn't even start. I didn't ground each board either, just redid the ground connections directly

#2465 5 years ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

You're not the only one! The ground mod thing has me confused as well. I had to wing it mostly. Upon completion now my game doesn't even start. I didn't ground each board either, just redid the ground connections directly

To tell you the truth I think we are having the same issue. After I did the ground mods, my machine shows a condition similar to yours...

#2466 5 years ago

I’m not sure if this has been done before, but I wanted to share a tip that I hope is helpful.

Everyone in this group has or will need to repin connectors. After seeing how much pin extractors cost and how easily they break, I decided I had to find a cheap way to get these bastards out.

My wife leaves Bobby pins all over the house and they seemed like a good thickness to work with. After grinding the edges down a little with a Dremel tool it fits perfectly and is surprisingly strong. I’ve probably done around 100pins with this one and haven’t broken it yet. Even if it does break, they cost a few cents each at Walmart so I can just spend another 5mins grinding the end down on another one and be good to go.

I’m sure there are a few more cheap people out there who will find this help

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#2467 5 years ago

Nice. I've ground 18ga nails for my finish nailer down to fit and hold them with a small vice-grip, seems to work good as well.

#2468 5 years ago

I ground down one of those eyeglass screwdrivers and have use it to do both my pins without problems.

#2469 5 years ago
Quoted from slghokie:

Looking for some guidance. Had a party and Solar Ride was on for 1.5 hours. Played fine until near the end of that time. Then it started making these weird squelching sounds. It also lost the free play setting, but I could add credits and get a game to start. The bad sound persisted. Original board with 7404/7405 replaced and battery damage repaired. Power supply has NOT had caps replaced. Sound board is brand new from Boston Pinball. Everything worked fine before and during most of the party. Just happened near the end. I suspect the power supply, have the kit and will replace the caps.....but wonder if there is something else. I also plan to repin connectors. Video below of the sounds.... https://www.facebook.com/scott.guthrie.779/videos/2050609218325347/

Update Oct 16...Replaced all the power supply caps and the noise/squelch went away. There is still a hum but i think that is just the transformers. Will do the repin on connectors and hope that keeps it going. Love that Solar Ride

For the remaining hum should I replace the line filter? Also I heard some people whack the transformer with a hammer and that can make the hum change or go away...any thoughts?

#2470 5 years ago

Anyone out there have a high res scanner and a Pinball Pool? I'm part way through a PF restore and with how badly I'm struggling on color matching, there is absolutely no way I have the artistic talent to redraw the artwork. I'm going to need a shot of the bonus X area and go the waterslide decal route.

I had an HP 4670 on order, but the lady on eBay never shipped it, so I'm SOL until one pops up at a decent price again. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

#2471 5 years ago
Quoted from statictrance:

Anyone out there have a high res scanner and a Pinball Pool? I'm part way through a PF restore and with how badly I'm struggling on color matching, there is absolutely no way I have the artistic talent to redraw the artwork. I'm going to need a shot of the bonus X area and go the waterslide decal route.
I had an HP 4670 on order, but the lady on eBay never shipped it, so I'm SOL until one pops up at a decent price again. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

pm sent

#2472 5 years ago
Quoted from Friengineer:

Anyone have a good photo of a SYS80B MPU with ground mods

Go to Johns Jukes website.
He has the mods broken down by System 1, 80 80A and 80B.

#2473 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

Go to Johns Jukes website.
He has the mods broken down by System 1, 80 80A and 80B.

Do you have a link for this? I went to a site but could find no instructions etc., only pinball parts for sale.

#2474 5 years ago
Quoted from RWH:

Do you have a link for this? I went to a site but could find no instructions etc., only pinball parts for sale.

Just found it myself: https://www.flippers.com/gottlieb_ground_cures.html#System80 it's incredibly useful, this is how I did it so that makes me feel better

#2475 5 years ago

Excellent. His grounds are simple and the pictures make it pretty easy.
He is a great guy too.
He has hard to find parts when no one else has them.

#2476 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

Go to Johns Jukes website.
He has the mods broken down by System 1, 80 80A and 80B.

John is a great guy, a long time asset to the hobby. I did some of his System 80 mods, but would probably do them differently the next time. Would bring ground wires together at a stud in the head, perhaps under a star washer and wingnut (like a Williams pinball), instead of using the power supply heatsink as a common ground point.

#2477 5 years ago

Got my universal MPU yesterday for Circus. It now boots, which means the original MPU has something wrong, but I have no idea how to figure out what. It also has about half the switches not registering. I will see which ones do and do not and see if there is any pattern. At least I got to smack a ball around.

#2478 5 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Got my universal MPU yesterday for Circus. It now boots, which means the original MPU has something wrong, but I have no idea how to figure out what. It also has about half the switches not registering. I will see which ones do and do not and see if there is any pattern. At least I got to smack a ball around.

the switch connector is in the battery damage area so if you had any this is suspect.

The connectors are always suspect. The new mpu makes one side solid but the crimp side can have broken, crushed or tarnished pins. these should be reviewed and replaced if needed.

Ground mods help too (especially of the connectors haven't been redone). The same bad connection that makes the switches not work can prevent the ground return from the boards and cause all sorts of problems. Even new boards sometimes need this done and some include a grounding lug to accommodate it.

#2479 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

the switch connector is in the battery damage area so if you had any this is suspect.
The connectors are always suspect. The new mpu makes one side solid but the crimp side can have broken, crushed or tarnished pins. these should be reviewed and replaced if needed.
Ground mods help too (especially of the connectors haven't been redone). The same bad connection that makes the switches not work can prevent the ground return from the boards and cause all sorts of problems. Even new boards sometimes need this done and some include a grounding lug to accommodate it.

I have a lot of new contacts that recently arrived, so I'll likely be doing those when I can. Previous MPU had NVRAM, and doesn't look like any previous battery issues, but I will double check just to make sure.

#2480 5 years ago

Check to see if all your switches are open.

#2481 5 years ago

You can check the switches etc. by booting up and then opening coin door, use the red button above your slam switch, just press it as many times as needed. I believe it is 18 and 20 that test switches.

#2482 5 years ago

Anybody know of someone that repairs System 80b boards?

#2483 5 years ago

Contact Clive at the Coin Op Caldron. He does great work.

#2484 5 years ago

System 80b MPU board for sale, see Pinside Market post below:

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/70179

#2485 5 years ago

I bought a populated Counterforce playfield at TPF and finally put it to good use. I thought I would post the story here.

Never saw one at any show or in the arcades, but I played the VP version and liked it. So when I saw the playfield hanging on the wall in a booth I knew I had to buy it and resurrect the game.

Of course, I needed a backglass too. There was a pretty nice one on ebay for MONTHS. I kept looking at it thinking I should buy it, but kept holding out for a complete game so I never pulled the trigger. Well, after TPF I immediately bought the glass. Sorry if any of you were one of the watchers.

Now I wish I would have kept the cabinet from the parts Panthera game instead of selling it to be used for VP.

So now it resides in my Mars God of War cabinet. At least it's space themed.

There were a few challenges to make it work:

1. MPU. It looks like it's completely corroded, but it ended up being bird sh*t from the barn it was stored in. Oh yeah....the top of the backbox is delaminating from water damage. The Mars inner backglass is gone and most of the artwork on the outer glass has peeled off. Anyway, cleaned off the MPU, but it still didn't work. Pulled the MPU out of my Black Hole project. This one has corrosion. Plenty of it. But surprisingly, it works! Burned a new EPROM and installed a memory cap and we're up and running.

2. Driver board. Same bird deficant that infected the MPU. Screw that. Pulled another board out of my stash and will clean and test this one some other day.

3. Sound board. It uses the same board as Panthera. Great, I thought, I have one of those. But wait, Mars has the sound/speech board. Same connector, but it has an extra power wire with 30V on it. Can't have that with the Panthera board. I cut the wire and put in a butt connector so I can still use either sound board. I look at the Panthera board again.....great, somebody did what I just tried to avoid -- plugged it into a sound/speech board harness and fried a diode and trace on the board. I make the repairs and plug the board in. No dice. I have good voltages. I have activity on the CPU, but the proprietary chips are dead. So I bought a Flipp replacement and sounds are working.

4. Score displays. The P3 & P4 displays on Mars are very close to the P1 & P2 displays. I had to really stretch the harness to reach the P3 & P4 score windows on the Counterforce glass. Also, because I mounted the backglass in place of the outer glass, that left a lot of space between the display panel and the glass. I used tall playfield posts to mount the display boards, but it still leaves a good inch between the display and the glass. Fine if you're standing in front of the machine, but as you move up/down or to the side it affects visibility. I could use taller standoffs, but I don't think I can stretch the harness even another 1/2 inch to reach.

5. Credit/match display. This display is in the playfield apron on Mars. Either I build a new harness or somehow extract the harness from the playfield wiring. Luckily, the display cable is not integrated with the playfield wiring and is simply ty-wrapped to the harness. The problem is that the hole in the Mars display panel for the P2 display wiring is right where the credit/match display needs to go. I mounted it just to the left of the hole. I'll need to make a special bracket to align it properly with the glass.

It's a fun game to play. Kind of like Space Invaders meets Missile Command. I like the risk vs. reward strategy. When you complete the bank of drops, do you shoot for the reward (special/extra ball/bonus collect)? Or do you keep shooting targets to save your bases (bonus multipliers)? If you miss even one missile, any rewards you've lit, but haven't collected, are gone.

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#2486 5 years ago

I was contacted from a friend that their family member was looking to sell a Gottlieb Dragon. I know that at some price any game is a good game. But with the sys1 you have to be careful about board repair/replacement vs game cost etc.

How is Dragon and gameplay? I was thinking if it worked and was cheap enough, I would put it at my sisters house, so I have something to play when I visit.... Is it worth like 300-350? Looks in pretty good shape. I still have to go see it, so not sure on board battery leak.

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#2487 5 years ago

It amazes me that some of the system ones haven’t gone up in price in the last 20-30 years. My dad bought our dragon around 1990 for $300. It is a simple game, but I still like it! System one parts are pretty cheap.

#2488 5 years ago

Dragon is very simple. A friend of mine sold one at Expo a couple years ago that was shopped and played well. He had the Pascal board in it with skill shot and ball save timer. I didn't think I'd like it, but it was actually pretty fun.

#2489 5 years ago
Quoted from ChrisPINk25:

It amazes me that some of the system ones haven’t gone up in price in the last 20-30 years. My dad bought our dragon around 1990 for $300. It is a simple game, but I still like it! System one parts are pretty cheap.

Parts maybe? I guess I was thinking CPU board. I however like to go overboard and Pascal's is awesome but Ni-wumpf makes a good cpu. My friend has a sys1 roller disco, and we have 1 more issue to fix but he has the original cpu board and I think that is the issue.

#2490 5 years ago

Better hope for a good MPU because Dragon is probably bottom of the barrel for sys1 games and hard to justify the cost of a Niwumpf let alone a Pascal 4in1. $300-$350 is about right for working. Sadly, more like $150 if bad MPU. Perfect condition backglass can raise that a bit for wall hanging.

#2491 5 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Better hope for a good MPU because Dragon is probably bottom of the barrel for sys1 games and hard to justify the cost of a Niwumpf let alone a Pascal 4in1. $300-$350 is about right for working. Sadly, more like $150 if bad MPU. Perfect condition backglass can raise that a bit for wall hanging.

ufff, ya. The hard part is getting them to tell me what they want for it vs telling them what reality is....I'll update after I talk to them.

#2492 5 years ago

If you think of System 1 games as EM's on steroids you won't be disappointed

#2493 5 years ago

I have a System 80a Jacks to Open, no way to set free play.

At one time I thought that I saw a picture tutorial on how to graft in an extra switch to the Start switch in order to increment a credit when the Start button is pressed. The new switch had to close before the original start switch for it to work right. The new switch was somehow wired to a coin switch. I could probably figure it out, but with pics it would be easier.

Thanks,

Alan

#2494 5 years ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

I have a System 80a Jacks to Open, no way to set free play.
At one time I thought that I saw a picture tutorial on how to graft in an extra switch to the Start switch in order to increment a credit when the Start button is pressed. The new switch had to close before the original start switch for it to work right. The new switch was somehow wired to a coin switch. I could probably figure it out, but with pics it would be easier.
Thanks,
Alan

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Enabling_Free_Play

#2495 5 years ago

I have followed these instructions before with great success. The only downside is some games have a sound on coin drop and another on game start and this can be annoying. As an aside I used a jumper wire with alligator clips so it was completely reversible.

#2496 5 years ago

So I jut got a nice Roller Disco. The inside of the cabinet is clean, but I have 3 coils that are stuck on (knocker, top kickout and ball kickout). Obviously, there must be something else at work to cause 3 coils to all fail. What specifically should I be checking?

#2497 5 years ago
Quoted from Diver12:

So I jut got a nice Roller Disco. The inside of the cabinet is clean, but I have 3 coils that are stuck on (knocker, top kickout and ball kickout). Obviously, there must be something else at work to cause 3 coils to all fail. What specifically should I be checking?

Sys 1s can fire coils if the driver board doesn't have a good ground to the MPU or the power supply to the MPU. Additionally battery corrosion can affect the switch matrix and connector and make the mpu think these are locked closed and fire the coil to clear it.

#2498 5 years ago

So this machine does not have a battery unit and the ground connections seem tight.

#2499 5 years ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

I have a System 80a Jacks to Open, no way to set free play.

I have Amazing SpiderMan, read the same thing. You can set up the dip switches to credit max of 8 games per quarter... where else you gonna get 8 games per quarter nowadays !!! Don’t be cheap! Maxes out at 25 credits.

You can rig up a switch to add credits... makes you drill a hole for extra switch though (heaven forbid!)

Pull the plastic insert out of the coin mech in the door and the leaf switch is right there. For years I’ve just been opening the door and touching the leaf switch 3 times to add 24 games... then good for quite a while. Just bought a pushbutton recently though and will connect it across the leaf switch contacts.

For what you want to do, it’s essentially the same thing but you stack a double leaf switch behind the game button (so you don’t drill a new hole), and make sure spacing is such that the credit switch triggers before the game switch. You give yourself a credit just before you use it.

#2500 5 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

I have followed these instructions before with great success. The only downside is some games have a sound on coin drop and another on game start and this can be annoying. As an aside I used a jumper wire with alligator clips so it was completely reversible.

Given the diode connection option, which is essentially triggering both the credit and game at the same time, I would think it sort of becomes a race between whether you give a credit before you use it. If you give yourself a couple credits in advance though you should never run out... use one and get one back right away. Or set up dip switches to give you 2 or more credits per quarter. Each press of the button will give you more credits than the one you use.

Try it with alligator clips like cheddar recommends ... connect two alligator clips to the game button and across a coin leaf switch... sounds like it should work if you start with a couple credits.

I’m gonna try this one tonight! May save me drilling a hole!

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