Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)

(Topic ID: 73213)

Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)


By Gerry

4 years ago



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There are 2420 posts in this topic. You are on page 45 of 49.
#2201 75 days ago
Quoted from BorgDog:

Once you knock down all the drops and hit the 8-ball (complete the rack) it lights the upper two kick holes to score the bonus when hit and then reset it all and kick your ball back out to continue.

Yes thsts right..but if I dont collect it and drains it gives bonus after all the balls light turned off. Makes me think there is something else giving bonus or it is just crap in a chip or the setting 5ball on a 3ball game. But its not every time but I think its has somthing to do with how many x bonus you have.

#2202 75 days ago

bonus after it counts the ball bonus? I don't think I've seen or heard of that.

#2203 73 days ago

What chip handels the bonus countdown?

Another question, do sys 1 and sys 80 have diffrent lenght on their ballshooter rod?

#2204 73 days ago

If using an original System 1 MPU, there is no specific chip. Two of the spider chips have most of the operating system software split between them. Then, the game PROM tells that software what to do with various switch closures.

So, if its not a mater of switch matrix read issues, it could be any of those failing that could effect it.

#2205 72 days ago

I wanted to see if anyone has run into this particular issue before. I just revived a Haunted House and all the displays were out. After replacing the fuse with the correct one the displays were up but the player 3 display had all segments lit and it was brighter than the other displays. Shortly after the fuse went again. With the power off I disconnected that display replaced the fuse and so far the other displays are all fine and the fuse hasn't blown.

I haven't tried swapping displays yet to see if it the issue stays with the player 3 spot. I may move the player 4 display there tonight to see if it is a logic board or wiring issue.

The monster score display was missing one digit so I pulled that and am going to check for a broken display lead or bad solder connection.

Any other suggestions on what the issue could be? I've fixed a ton of other pinball boards over the years but this is my first system 80 game.

Robert

#2206 71 days ago

On a Volcano there are four 6 digit score displays, if some one was to accidentally remove the connector from the displays while it was on and it screwed up the other displays what would need to be looked at or done? So a little background a friend was having issues with two of the displays intermediately working and then would lose a digit or segment. I thought to wiggle the IDC wires maybe a bad connection and then maybe try to re-seat the connector not realizing i forgot to mention while game is off (DUH). Well the connectors were removed and reseated with game powered on and now there is Digit#2 on players 1-3 and a few segments missing on all four displays are out. I believe it to be a data problem know more than a power or connectivity issue but correct me if not. From what i read on wiki the digits and segments are controlled by logic IC.

Taken from Wiki: NOTE: Do not connect or disconnect the display connectors or connectors A1J2 and A1J3 on the MPU (right hand side) with the power on! Doing so WILL damage the MPU board display logic ICs.

Display Issue With Multiple Displays
If the problem shows up on two or more displays, suspect one of the two connectors on the CPU board (A1J2 or A1J3), one of the two connectors on the two displays (they are daisy-chained with an IDC connector), or the chips which control the display data on the CPU board. If there is a digit issue, the issue will be present on player 1 and 3 or player 2 and 4 displays. If there is a segment issue, the issue will be present on player 1 and 2 or player 3 and 4 displays, and the status display. If more than 4 scoring displays are used, on games such as Pink Panther, Black Hole, Haunted House, Devil's Dare, etc., consult the game manual for display digit and segment mapping.

The charts listed below, map out each signal to each specific display. The first chart maps the display digit information, while the second and third charts map the display segment information. This information only applies to games where 4 scoring displays and 1 status display are used, although digit group names have been added, if more displays are used. All of the charts apply to System 80 and 80A, but not 80B.
Display Digit Information
Digit Number Display(s) CPU Pin Connection Chip on CPU Board - Pin
D16 (80A only) Players 1 & 3 (Group F) A1J3-16 Z26-8
D1 Players 1 & 3 (Group D) A1J3-1 Z17-4
D2 Players 1 & 3 (Group D) A1J3-2 Z17-6
D3 Players 1 & 3 (Group D) A1J3-3 Z17-12
D4 Players 1 & 3 (Group D) A1J3-4 Z17-10
D5 Players 1 & 3 (Group D) A1J3-5 Z17-8
D6 Players 1 & 3 (Group D) A1J3-6 Z24-2
D13 (80A only) Players 2 & 4 (Group F) A1J3-13 Z26-4
D7 Players 2 & 4 (Group E) A1J3-7 Z24-4
D8 Players 2 & 4 (Group E) A1J3-8 Z24-6
D9 Players 2 & 4 (Group E) A1J3-9 Z24-12
D10 Players 2 & 4 (Group E) A1J3-10 Z24-10
D11 Players 2 & 4 (Group E) A1J3-11 Z24-8
D12 Players 2 & 4 (Group E) A1J3-12 Z26-2
D13 Status (Group F) A1J3-13 Z26-4
D14 Status (Group F) A1J3-14 Z26-6
D15 Status (Group F) A1J3-15 Z26-10
D16 Status (Group F) A1J3-16 Z26-8

Display Segment Group A Information

Segment Display Group CPU Pin Connection Chip on CPU Board - Pin
a Segment Group A A1J2-1 Z19-13
b Segment Group A A1J2-2 Z19-12
c Segment Group A A1J2-3 Z19-11
d Segment Group A A1J2-4 Z19-10
e Segment Group A A1J2-5 Z19-9
f Segment Group A A1J2-6 Z19-15
g Segment Group A A1J2-7 Z19-14
h Segment Group A A1J2-8 Z16-12

So if Digit 2 is out on player 1 and 3, i would want to replace the Z17-6 chip? I have several segment a out as well like a on player 2 any chance someone knows what chips they are? Im pretty sure i am reading chart right. Segment a on player 2 be chipz19-13?Digit and segment chips different? Where can i buy them GPE?

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#2207 71 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I wanted to see if anyone has run into this particular issue before. I just revived a Haunted House and all the displays were out. After replacing the fuse with the correct one the displays were up but the player 3 display had all segments lit and it was brighter than the other displays. Shortly after the fuse went again. With the power off I disconnected that display replaced the fuse and so far the other displays are all fine and the fuse hasn't blown.
I haven't tried swapping displays yet to see if it the issue stays with the player 3 spot. I may move the player 4 display there tonight to see if it is a logic board or wiring issue.
The monster score display was missing one digit so I pulled that and am going to check for a broken display lead or bad solder connection.
Any other suggestions on what the issue could be? I've fixed a ton of other pinball boards over the years but this is my first system 80 game.
Robert

Got lucky on these. Cleaned up a couple bad solder connections and cleaned up the edge connectors with a pink eraser and all the displays are working now.

#2208 71 days ago
Quoted from Wisker:

On a Volcano there are four 6 digit score displays, if some one was to accidentally remove the connector from the displays while it was on and it screwed up the other displays what would need to be looked at or done? So a little background a friend was having issues with two of the displays intermediately working and then would lose a digit or segment. I thought to wiggle the IDC wires maybe a bad connection and then maybe try to re-seat the connector not realizing i forgot to mention while game is off (DUH). Well the connectors were removed and reseated with game powered on and now there is Digit#2 on players 1-3 and a few segments missing on all four displays are out. I believe it to be a data problem know more than a power or connectivity issue but correct me if not. From what i read on wiki the digits and segments are controlled by logic IC.
Taken from Wiki: NOTE: Do not connect or disconnect the display connectors or connectors A1J2 and A1J3 on the MPU (right hand side) with the power on! Doing so WILL damage the MPU board display logic ICs.
Display Issue With Multiple Displays
If the problem shows up on two or more displays, suspect one of the two connectors on the CPU board (A1J2 or A1J3), one of the two connectors on the two displays (they are daisy-chained with an IDC connector), or the chips which control the display data on the CPU board. If there is a digit issue, the issue will be present on player 1 and 3 or player 2 and 4 displays. If there is a segment issue, the issue will be present on player 1 and 2 or player 3 and 4 displays, and the status display. If more than 4 scoring displays are used, on games such as Pink Panther, Black Hole, Haunted House, Devil's Dare, etc., consult the game manual for display digit and segment mapping.
The charts listed below, map out each signal to each specific display. The first chart maps the display digit information, while the second and third charts map the display segment information. This information only applies to games where 4 scoring displays and 1 status display are used, although digit group names have been added, if more displays are used. All of the charts apply to System 80 and 80A, but not 80B.
Display Digit Information
Digit Number Display(s) CPU Pin Connection Chip on CPU Board - Pin
D16 (80A only) Players 1 & 3 (Group F) A1J3-16 Z26-8
D1 Players 1 & 3 (Group D) A1J3-1 Z17-4
D2 Players 1 & 3 (Group D) A1J3-2 Z17-6
D3 Players 1 & 3 (Group D) A1J3-3 Z17-12
D4 Players 1 & 3 (Group D) A1J3-4 Z17-10
D5 Players 1 & 3 (Group D) A1J3-5 Z17-8
D6 Players 1 & 3 (Group D) A1J3-6 Z24-2
D13 (80A only) Players 2 & 4 (Group F) A1J3-13 Z26-4
D7 Players 2 & 4 (Group E) A1J3-7 Z24-4
D8 Players 2 & 4 (Group E) A1J3-8 Z24-6
D9 Players 2 & 4 (Group E) A1J3-9 Z24-12
D10 Players 2 & 4 (Group E) A1J3-10 Z24-10
D11 Players 2 & 4 (Group E) A1J3-11 Z24-8
D12 Players 2 & 4 (Group E) A1J3-12 Z26-2
D13 Status (Group F) A1J3-13 Z26-4
D14 Status (Group F) A1J3-14 Z26-6
D15 Status (Group F) A1J3-15 Z26-10
D16 Status (Group F) A1J3-16 Z26-8
Display Segment Group A Information
Segment Display Group CPU Pin Connection Chip on CPU Board - Pin
a Segment Group A A1J2-1 Z19-13
b Segment Group A A1J2-2 Z19-12
c Segment Group A A1J2-3 Z19-11
d Segment Group A A1J2-4 Z19-10
e Segment Group A A1J2-5 Z19-9
f Segment Group A A1J2-6 Z19-15
g Segment Group A A1J2-7 Z19-14
h Segment Group A A1J2-8 Z16-12
So if Digit 2 is out on player 1 and 3, i would want to replace the Z17-6 chip? I have several segment a out as well like a on player 2 any chance someone knows what chips they are? Im pretty sure i am reading chart right. Segment a on player 2 be chipz19-13?Digit and segment chips different? Where can i buy them GPE?

Anyone?

#2209 71 days ago

I have a system 80B display that is showing some ghosting of the display segments not in use. It appears the be the display itself, as it follows the display to other games. I did replace the small capacitors on the display board, because they were testing questionable... But that did it fix it. Any ideas?

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#2210 68 days ago

I finally went and bought a replacement MPU for our Solar Ride - I'd had the "bonus runaway" issue again, and replaced the last 2/3 of the switch matrix glue logic, and decided enough was enough in terms of throwing more parts at it. So we got ourselves a LISY now. Still making some adjustments to things like emulation speed, and the sound is a bit odd (like it's running the sound longer), but I'm looking forward to messing with MPF to see what I can add in without modifying the playfield.

#2211 68 days ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I have a system 80B display that is showing some ghosting of the display segments not in use. It appears the be the display itself, as it follows the display to other games. I did replace the small capacitors on the display board, because they were testing questionable... But that did it fix it. Any ideas?

Hi,

Yes, we have already seen this on one of the displays that we repaired. This comes from the display board itself.
The problem came from 10941 (the small chip) which had too much latency, and the solution was to replace it.

Check anyway before changing it that there is no short circuit, or dirt on the PCB, especially at the SCLK-DIS and DATA-LOAD pins (1 and 40 of the 10939, and 23- 24 of 10941). If necessary, clean the welding side with acetone and alcohol. If it does not improve anything, then the 10941 is faulty.
Finding spare 10941 (R10941 from Rockwell, or MIC10941 from Micrell) is now quite difficult, and prices go hand in hand.

#2212 68 days ago
Quoted from noflip95:

Hi,
Yes, we have already seen this on one of the displays that we repaired. This comes from the display board itself.
The problem came from 10941 (the small chip) which had too much latency, and the solution was to replace it.
Check anyway before changing it that there is no short circuit, or dirt on the PCB, especially at the SCLK-DIS and DATA-LOAD pins (1 and 40 of the 10939, and 23- 24 of 10941). If necessary, clean the welding side with acetone and alcohol. If it does not improve anything, then the 10941 is faulty.
Finding spare 10941 (R10941 from Rockwell, or MIC10941 from Micrell) is now quite difficult, and prices go hand in hand.

Thank you!!

#2213 67 days ago

Im getting tired of the system 1 colors
Is there any out of the box colors that match gottlieb sys 1 games. Pritty good on solarride but the blu on countdown was a pain in tha ass and did not really match to 100%
That blue is on pinball pool also.
Did they mix their own colors at the gottlieb factory?

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#2214 67 days ago

Is this a bad bulbholder? The 5000 lamp is 50% turned on when its not supposed to. It do light up 100% when it is supposed to. Tried changing the bulb but didnt help. Game has janin 4 in 1 card and has worked flawless for 4 years with it.

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#2215 67 days ago

I would suspect a bad drive transistor. I think pascal used ULN2803A ICs with 8 drivers per package.

#2216 66 days ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

I would suspect a bad drive transistor. I think pascal used ULN2803A ICs with 8 drivers per package.

Thanx, will look in to that

#2217 66 days ago
Quoted from Andreas:

Thanx, will look in to that

I had the same issue on my pinball pool and count-down with the 4-1 board, below is the response I got from Pascal when I e-mailed. I ended up buying I think 10 of the ULN2803 chips just to have on hand (I have 3 or 4 of the boards).

regarding CPU-driven lamps (L5 thru L36) which are always on, always off or dimly lit:

those lamps are driven by ULN2803 that go by pairs:

L5 thru L12 : U18/U21 above A3J5 connector

L13 thru L20 : U12/U15 above A3J5 connector

L21 thru L28 : U19/U23 above A3J3 connector

L29 thru L36 : U13/U17 above A3J3 connector --> your case

In case of LAMPS ALWAYS ON or DIMLY LIT :

turn the pinball game off, remove one of those 2 chips (no matter which one) then turn the game on: if the faulty lamps are now off, that chip is faulty and must be replaced.

otherwise (lamps still lit), remove the 2nd chip.

#2218 66 days ago

Not knowing if it is Pascal's recommendation, but I would suggest using only #47 lamps for feature lamps (or LEDs).

#47 = 150ma
#44 = 250ma

Which is why Pascal doubled up the drivers of the ULN2803's

#2219 65 days ago

Does anyone know the speaker size and ohm rating for black hole? Mine are pretty rusty and dry rotted and looking to change them out

#2220 64 days ago

Looking for a good backglass for The Games... like most of them, mine is pretty well gone in the middle top half and has a bunch of amateur repair but it’s not completely gone. if anybody has one they can part with lmk, thx.

#2221 64 days ago
Quoted from jboner1058:

Does anyone know the speaker size and ohm rating for black hole? Mine are pretty rusty and dry rotted and looking to change them out

schematic shows 8ohm 5watt speakers, not sure on size however.

#2222 64 days ago

WOW!! Didn’t believe me I guess... I will try again...
Fit right in didn’t have to change a thing. I even painted the grills.
Or maybe, just take the old ones out and measure them!
You could also go online www.pinwiki.com Under Gottlieb System 80 Section 4.8Speakers
Where the lovfellow BH owner
GOOD LUCK

Quoted from jboner1058:

Does anyone know the speaker size and ohm rating for black hole? Mine are pretty rusty and dry rotted and looking to change them out

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#2223 64 days ago

Ha goes to show how much I’m out of it. I literally responded to that post and said I was going to order it. Too many projects going on...

#2224 64 days ago
Quoted from jboner1058:

Ha goes to show how much I’m out of it. I literally responded to that post and said I was going to order it. Too many projects going on...

Amazon.com/ CES 6.5" FULL RANGE SPEAKER 8 OHMS @ 12WATTS/ Car Electronics
I do understand! They even dropped the price on them and shipping. Not fair! LOL

#2225 63 days ago

Anybody want to do some system 80 trading in the Midwest? I’ve got a beautiful Circus with an almost perfect back glass... not sure I want to let it go yet but I thought I’d hit up the system 80 group 1st...! cheers

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#2226 63 days ago
Quoted from Andreas:

Where do one get one of these?

Late reply, but looking at this picture, I thought that it reminded me of something... it was in France, of course

This picture has been taken during the Flip-Expo show 2018 at Le Tréport
.
I first recognized the engine on the table! But, I also remember that this pretty girl was on our common stand (flipper.fr / flipprojets). I think it was Fabrice (Danny60) who brought her, but I do not know how he got it. On occasion I will ask him for more details.
Some pictures of this show (and the stand where it was displayed) are visible at Pinballnews : https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2018/04/24/flip-expo-2018/
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#2227 63 days ago
Quoted from Zorak:

I’ve got a beautiful Circus

I had one.
I thought is was one of the most colorful playfields and backglasses of that era.

#2228 62 days ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

If using an original System 1 MPU, there is no specific chip. Two of the spider chips have most of the operating system software split between them. Then, the game PROM tells that software what to do with various switch closures.
So, if its not a mater of switch matrix read issues, it could be any of those failing that could effect it.

It was a bad prom
Thanks for the help

#2229 62 days ago
Quoted from noflip95:

Late reply, but looking at this picture, I thought that it reminded me of something... it was in France, of course
This picture has been taken during the Flip-Expo show 2018 at Le Tréport
.
I first recognized the engine on the table! But, I also remember that this pretty girl was on our common stand (flipper.fr / flipprojets). I think it was Fabrice (Danny60) who brought her, but I do not know how he got it. On occasion I will ask him for more details.
Some pictures of this show (and the stand where it was displayed) are visible at Pinballnews : https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2018/04/24/flip-expo-2018/

Awsome

I have found a company who can do it for me

#2230 61 days ago

Any clue why I still don’t have 5v on my board? Recapped it, new header pins, updated some resistors and still nothing.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated!

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#2231 61 days ago

Give us volt readings of all three places on the big TO-3 transistor (in reference to ground). This will help us know where to begin.

Did you have 5v before you worked on it?

#2232 61 days ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Give us volt readings of all three places on the big TO-3 transistor (in reference to ground). This will help us know where to begin.

No, the 5v wasn’t working before either.

I’m going to overexplain what I did so I don’t mess it up.

I put the black lead on the comm test point and measured the left most lead of the Q3. It fluctuates around .120. The right lead does about the same but gets around .140v

When I test the screw holding q3 I get around 15v. I’m assuming that transistor is grounding out to the plate then?

#2233 61 days ago

No, if you have 15v to the screws (collector), then they are not grounding out. So, with only the 0.12ish volts to both base and emitter, it is further up the regulator circuit we have to look.

I will need to locate a schematic to guide you further, unless someone else steps in.

#2234 61 days ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

No, if you have 15v to the screws (collector), then they are not grounding out. So, with only the 0.12ish volts to both base and emitter, it is further up the regulator circuit we have to look.
I will need to locate a schematic to guide you further, unless someone else steps in.

This might be too small since it’s a screenshot with my phone. I can grab a bigger photo tomorrow.

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#2235 61 days ago

The 5 volt regulator circuit has an over voltage crowbar shutdown circuit consisting of SCR1, CR8 etc. If the 5 output rises above 5.6v, the SCR will short the output to ground. The LM723 regulator has an over current shut down feature. So, if either the voltage goes too high, or if there are shorts out in tge game or boards, the regulator will shut down.

So, it can be hard to troubleshoot the circuit.

With power off, try turning POT1 up and down serveral times to clean it, and then leave it at mid setting. Repower and retest.

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#2236 61 days ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

The 5 volt regulator circuit has an over voltage crowbar shutdown circuit consisting of SCR1, CR8 etc. If the 5 output rises above 5.6v, the SCR will short the output to ground. The LM723 regulator has an over current shut down feature. So, if either the voltage goes too high, or if there are shorts out in tge game or boards, the regulator will shut down.
So, it can be hard to troubleshoot the circuit.
With power off, try turning POT1 up and down serveral times to clean it, and then leave it at mid setting. Repower and retest.

It’s reading pretty much the same. Still hovering around .12v

#2237 61 days ago

Otherwise, the process would be to remove SCR1 and retest to see if the 5v output is too high.

After that, would be to confirm all resistor values. If you get an odd reading, you would have to unsolder 1 lead.

Beyond that, I would suspect the LM723.

#2238 61 days ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Otherwise, the process would be to remove SCR1 and retest to see if the 5v output is too high.
After that, would be to confirm all resistor values. If you get an odd reading, you would have to unsolder 1 lead.
Beyond that, I would suspect the LM723.

Interesting...that might explain why the center lead of the src1 was cut. I added a tiny jumper because I assumed the lead had just snapped or something.

#2239 61 days ago

Oh, check what you get at IC1 pin 10. Print says it should be around 7v. If you get more than the 0.12 you get at Q3, you have a bad solder joint to the hollow rivet for that lead.

#2240 61 days ago

Cut lead means someone else already tried to trouble shoot it before.

#2241 61 days ago

Ok, I’m getting 2.68v at pin 10. So that means those through hole rivets at q3 aren’t right?

EDIT: sorry I counted wrong. Pin 10 looks like it’s 13v

#2242 61 days ago
Quoted from jdoz2:

Ok, I’m getting 2.68v at pin 10. So that means those through hole rivets at q3 aren’t right?

That would be what I suspect. After sucking up the solder in the holes, flow solder to the trace to adhere to the rivet but not fill the hole. Re-assemble.

#2243 61 days ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

That would be what I suspect. After sucking up the solder in the holes, flow solder to the trace to adhere to the rivet but not fill the hole. Re-assemble.

You nailed it

Got 5v now. Thanks for your help! Hopefully a little connector and ground mod attention and this thing will fire up.

1 week later
#2244 53 days ago

This darn roller disco!

Ok, when the game was picked up the left drop bank reset coil had one leg wire un-soldered. I got a new coil, put it in and soldered it up. The coil was locked on still, long enough to melt the sleeve. I ordered another, and replaced the transistor (under pf) with a 2n5875.

The driver board was also replaced with a rottendog. So new driver board, new transistor, new coil. All soldered back up, but now the coil will not fire, even in diagnostic test. I’m having a big brain fart day so I need some help on what to do next...

#2245 53 days ago

Maybe a fuse?

#2246 53 days ago

I checked the fuse under the pf, tested fine. I checked the ones in the bottom of the cab, all checked fine. I was hoping it was a fuse! If i unsolder the wires to the legs of the coil, I could test for power....mm

#2247 52 days ago

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#2248 52 days ago

Dealing with 2 close encounters. Got a spare door for number 2. Pic 1 and 2 are from the original door. Pic 3 is the spare doore. Any tips to figure out what colors would go where on the pic 3 door. I dont know what machine the spare doore came from so cant read the manual for that game.

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#2249 51 days ago

I got a Charlies pinballbody, countdown backbox. Is there anything I need to think of? I can only think of the gameover, tilt and shoot again lamp I need to redo. Anything else?

#2250 50 days ago

Can someone take a picture of torch toneboard and totem toneboard. I need to see whats printed on the soundrom cause I got awful sound from my torch and I need info on totem cause mine is missing. Any good replacement boards just for the tone?

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