When checking the DC output of a bridge, don't use earth ground (you have no way of knowing if earth is ultimately connected to logic or DC ground), connect Red lead to + of bridge and black lead to minus of bridge.

Sounds like good information. ill give it a try this afternoon and let you know how it goes.

It depends on what the issues are.

If a spider chip is dead, I usually stop there and get a replacement board. The spider chips are not obtainable. You can try swapping from another board, but its usually the same chip that blows on the board.

If it's just some battery damage, I'll usually address it if it's not too bad.

I'll also replace the RAM chip if there are quirky memory issues, since I've found that more often than not it, does go bad (especially if it's an AMI branded chip).

You may want to reflow the ground headers.

Thanks. I'll pull the board and inspect. We have some odd behavior happening, and I need to trace it to what the issue is on the cpu board.

I don't know how to fully troubleshoot the cpu board. I have the DIP switches set to the preferred way via pinwiki so 1 coin is a few credits. However pushing the start button, the game ejects the ball but the game doesn't actually start. score goes up with switch hits, but no music/sound and when the ball drains nothing happens. So it seems like the CPU board isn't fully starting a game. I traced the wire from the start/replay button back to the cpu and all that is fine. I also checked the trace back to U5 chip and that is okay as well. But in the schematics I am unsure how a game would start, or requirements from xyz to check. Power board and sound board were rebuilt and test good, new rotten dog driver board works.

If anyone has a used but working sys1 CPU board, or knows someone that can refurb mine, I would appreciate looking down that path. $200 for a new cpu board is a tad steep but may have to take that plunge to get the game functioning.

Is the outhole switch working?

mmm I can check when I get back. If a ball went in, it wouldn't kick out, but that could of been the coil. I just replaced the under pf transistor as well, but haven't gone and retested everything again. I can have Ordo test as he is still available at the machine tomorrow. If the ball drops in, it awards some points?

you are referring to this outhole?
rollderdisco (resized).jpg

No, the outhole is the place where the ball drains under the apron.

You can go through the switch test for the game to determine whether or not the game is detecting that switch when it closes.

Ah yes, I thought that may be it, one of those two

Great I'll walk through my friend on testing that.

Hi All,

Need some help....

Tested the power supply at the plug A2 J1 about a week ago, all voltages were spot on.

After rebuilding the power supply board with new caps (5 of) both trim pots, both CR1 & CR2 with higher amp rated. CR3, CR4, CR6, CR7, CR8 and CR9 all IN4004. Plugged it to the power supply board to test and set up voltages.

everything was ok except the 60v and 42v were not there.

So tested the fuse in the cabinet OK, tested at the transformer nothing at all, tested the transformer for resistance and got no resistance. No voltage at all from the 2 tags on the back of the transformer lug 8 & 9 when turned on.

Now this bit is the strange bit, left it for 1 hour and now I have 32volts from the 2 lugs.

Any help much appreciated

Go through this sites power train and transformer test.

http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/index.htm#power

Otherwise did you try adjusting the pots to see if they needed adjusting on the power output?

I am in need of some help. I have a gold wings it plays and scores good. The issue I am having is i have 5 lights that won't light up. It's the 50k,100k,200k and special. The are all in a row next the the vertical loop. Then I have the 16k light in the middle of the plane. I have looked at the Manuel but cant seem to find a light matrix table. I am thinking I have a transitor out some where but I don't see any thing in the schematics. Seems like they used the same 5 wires for everything. And it's a little different then the William's I have been fixing. I also have a dim light in the 5 running lights right under the clear ramp. Its coming on but very dim. Any help would be great.

Do you have the manual? I know sometimes the schematics and such can be on separate papers. The gottliebs are hard to find online, you need to contact the pinball resource and purchase them from them.

Found the manual online here on pinside. Trying to figure out the schematics is a pita. I was hoping someone new what transitors controlled what on the lamp board.

Do you have a link?

I found it searching the forums for gold wings. I was one of the post but I don't remember. I can email it to you.

Found it.

https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_152466843143512&key=c7cb1c7c419234bebfc593e65880ba05&libId=jgf87sga0100qp6d000MA92v3727k&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fpinside.com%2Fpinball%2Fforum%2Ftopic%2Fgottlieb-gold-wings-siren-wiring-is-it-in-the-manual&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbox.com%2Fs%2Fn9nnnpgmqpoc73v%2FGottlieb%2520GoldWings%2520manual.pdf%3Fdl%3D0&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fpinside.com%2Fpinball%2Farchive%2Fgold-wings%2Fforum&title=Gottlieb%20Gold%20Wings%20siren%20wiring%2C%20is%20it%20in%20the%20manual%3F%20%7C%20Pinside%20Forum&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbox.com%2Fs%2Fn9nnnpgmqpoc73v%2FGottlieb%2520GoldWings%2520manual.pdf%3Fdl%3D0

- Check voltage (no voltage?) at lamp sockets and clean sockets if necessary.
- Make sure you have good clean connection at A3J2 and A3J3 (confirm continuity to lamp) maybe need repin connectors.
- look on page 48 to get lamp number.
- then page 27 and 28 for driver board A3 information for connector, transistor(Q) and chip(Z).

50K = L5 -> pin 3 A3J2 -> Q6 ->Z2
100K = L6 -> pin 5 A3J2 -> Q7 -> Z2
200K = L8 -> pin 10 A3J2 -> Q9 ->Z3
special = L9 -> pin 9 A3J2 -> Q10 ->Z3
16K bonus = L41 -> pin 3 A3J3 -> Q42 -> Z11

next trace back to A1 CPU (Z32), but is looks like the information on RH side of page 25 is missing? You would have other lights not working if that chip was NG. So I don't think it's an A1 CPU issue at this time.

dim bulb = clean socket and/or replace bulb

Check the ground buss at the bottom of the cabinet.
May need to be reflowed.

Cross posted this over in the TECH: Early Solid State forums as well. I thought I would reach out to the fellow pinsiders, experts, and veterans for some assistance.

Just purchased a 1980 Gottlieb Counterforce pinball machine that has upgraded boards and is functional, however there are about 6 controlled lamps (green multipliers) that are not working properly —-> very dim when they are powered up. I thought I would reach out to the experts & veterans on these forums as I am a newbie. They were tested with a DMM, and they are getting power, but not enough to light them fully. The irony is The original MPU was replaced with a Swermmer board, and the original driver board was replaced with a Ni-Wumph board. In addition, the Swermmer board is connected to the Ni-Wumph driver board with a ribbon cable (instead of the original Gottlieb multi-wire connector — so there should be no issue with a worn / corroded / damaged pin causing problems with the signal going to the driver board.

I inspected the A3 - J3 plug connector and did notice (1) lamp pin connector (one of the problem lamps) was replaced with standard Molex edge connector pin (System 1) and not the Molex 08-03-0304 bifurcated edge connector pin. Could this incorrect pin cause problems or issues? Is this be some sort of ground issue? Defective lamp sockets? I have the Counterforce manual with schematics, and they show the controlled lamp signal coming from the driver board to the map but then ties into a common connection — but it does not look like a ground (on schematic). However, in reality the wire comes into light socket the goes to stapled ground wire, which is tied into all the other multiplier controlled lamps. Therefore, I do not think it is a ground issue because all lamps would have issues. Could this be defective pins on the edge connector for these lamps? Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated.

B766C831-9828-4766-AFCB-F6018EC9F294 (resized).jpeg

Thanks for the help. I have been looking at it for a couple of hours and couldn't figure out the transitor numbers for them.

Have you tested the Q transistors with a meter I had a Raven (same driver board) with multiple lamps out and each was caused by a dead transistor. Also check to see if any of your feature lamps are stuck on, I had some of them too and they were transistor problems. All of them were MPS-U45's which are no longer available, replaced by CEN-U45's, available rom Mouser, among others.

Ok... I’ve been posting a ton about my dumb genie... so I have the game working perfectly for about 5-8 games and then the 2amp fuse blows. WTF

Line fuse or on a specific line/thing?

It says slow blow and I have a slow blow in there

Not sure what you mean. There’s 7 fuses on the bottom panel and 1 underside of the playfield and it’s that one.

C8BB661B-8AC9-4255-A3D3-42AC12D68D2D (resized).jpeg

9631FF41-4A28-4099-B259-19B2674A76A8 (resized).jpeg

Ah. Line fuse being on the line coming into the game, the others I mean by is it just for xyz coils, lights, 12v, 5v etc

Do you have the manual for the game?

I do

It should say what the fuse is for, probably some coils or high voltage lights?

Can you follow the wire to see where it’s going ? Or does it go back into a bundle. If you’re having a hard time finding it in the schematic check the colour numbers associated with what’s on the physical wire. Looks like white with purple and red stripes... a table on the schematic will tell you what the three number code for that is... eg 137 and then you can find it on the schematic... square boxes annotated on a signal line.

Or... what stops working ehen the fuse blows

Right into a huge bundle and I printed the manual so maybe I don’t have the full thing but I’ll look now for color code numbers

image (resized).jpg

image (resized).jpg

image (resized).jpg

I have a Spider-Man and believe I have some fuses to protect the slingshot coils in case the switches get caught under a rubber or contacts too close and it just keeps firing. Can you not tell what isn’t working when the fuse is out? Something must not be firing.

Yes the drops don’t reset and I’m thinking it’s connected more to the 4 bank of drops. I’ll put a 2A fuse in and they’ll all work great and reset then after about 5-10 games it’ll blow

That’s where it’s going then. You may want to check if the coil gets locked on occasionally. There’s not likely a constant flow of current that’s borderline and eventually blows the fuse. More likely something accidentally gets locked on, so the fuse blows before it burns out the coil.

Is there some kind of eos switch on the bank reset coil that should be releasing it but isn’t? I don’t look at those much so dont know off the top of my head what tells the coil to stop energizing. Direct from mpu? Or something mechanical like in a flipper.

This post isn't going to be popular with a lot of you but it is the absolute truth. The Gottlieb designers didn't provide enough wiggle room on some of the fused devices. This is most apparent on coils. Try using a 2 1/2 amp sb fuse. I had the same problem. If fuse holds you are good to go. If it doesn't you have a different problem.

Also... 3 wires so likely going to some other places too... maybe to reset all banks at start of new ball?

I put a 2.5 amp in the holder to see what happened a while ago and the coil locked on and didn’t unlock til I turned the game of the coil has never locked on with a 2 A in it and after about 5 games of the machine working great the machine doesn’t turn on consistently but eventually will play and then a few games after it’ll blow the fuse

So... need to figure out what’s keeping the coil locked on.

I just put a 2.5 A in and it’s not locking on now... I’m leaving the game on a while to see what happens. If this was the problem I’m going to be happy yet pissed off. I’ll keep you posted and thanks!!

Is this a pop bumper fuse?

Not that I know of cause I tested the bumpers nd rest of the game switches with out that fuse in and the 3 bumpers worked

Sorry if I missed it above. Do we know what that fuse does? I have a Roller Disco which is about as close as you can get.

I just checked my Spider-Man and there’s no obvious mechanical release of the coil like an eos switch. So assuming the mpu tells it when to release.

It you think it’s truly locking on you’ll need to dig deeper to find out why.

Also thinking you may have a short in one of the diodes across the coils. That could draw a lot of current even if it’s only temporarily on, it could blow fuse... but if coil is occasionally locking on, then that’s what’s blowing the fuse.

I had some time to read some older posts on the subject. It seems like it is your drop target bank. Checking the diode is good advice. My guess it is that or a fuse on the jagged edge.

Great suggestions! Also maybe reflow solder on the fuse holder and coil(s). Make sure the fuse holder clips are holding the fuse tightly and are clean

So I put a 2.5 A in I’ve left the game on and it’s not locking on and the banks are working well and no blown fuse yet. The only problem I’m seeing now with the 2.5 A in is it might take 3-5 times to turn on fully. If it doesn’t I’ll hear some strange noises and the slam tilt or knocker, knocks but it turns after a few on and offs and and works great so far. I’m fine with having to click it on a few times as long as it consistently works

Mmmm there is a greater issue then.

Do you have all stock boards, or do you have some aftermarket ones?

That fuse should not have anything to do with turning the game on. I would check the voltages on your power supply. Also, how do the pins look on the cable going from the power supply to the MPU? If it they look iffy replace them or just buy a new cable.