Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)

(Topic ID: 73213)

Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)


By Gerry

4 years ago



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  • 2,312 posts
  • 321 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 hours ago by REGNE
  • Topic is favorited by 154 Pinsiders

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There are 2320 posts in this topic. You are on page 38 of 47.
#1851 6 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Just for the record, it costs about $15 in parts to rebuild a system 1 power supply. However, because of the odd design, it does take some time to work on. There is a rebuild guide on pinwiki that I've linked to many times.

I bought the rebuild kit from BDE, so it was ~$40. I’ll test the pin outs again but I swear the j3 wasn’t outputting the 40 and 60vac, even after the rebuild, hence why I started going back to the transformer.

#1852 6 months ago

If you have 73VAC at the bottom connector of regulator board with connector plugged in, your transformer is good.

#1853 6 months ago

Stayed home sick today. See if I can get in tomorrow

#1854 6 months ago

System 80a, Jacks to Open.

There is a wire, purple/purple/purple (777), that runs from the 4 digit Status display, 1A5J1-2, to the MPU A1J3-16. But instead of stopping at that connector it goes through the IDC connector for about 5 inches and is broken off. I can't for the life of me figure out where it is supposed to go by either searching for the other end or by looking at the schematic.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Al

#1855 6 months ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

System 80a, Jacks to Open.
There is a wire, purple/purple/purple (777), that runs from the 4 digit Status display, 1A5J1-2, to the MPU A1J3-16. But instead of stopping at that connector it goes through the IDC connector for about 5 inches and is broken off. I can't for the life of me figure out where it is supposed to go by either searching for the other end or by looking at the schematic.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Al

I don't know if this is your case or not... I had found a similar wire on my bro-in-law's Caveman. (Extended wire past an A1 IDC connector.) I believe in our case the wire was previously connected up at the MPU reset connection (locate the reset board and follow its harness back to the MPU). Previous owner had replaced the wire harness between the reset board and the MPU and must have pulled wire out of the original IDC/socket at the MPU location... I still have not connected it up.

#1856 6 months ago

Thanks for the reply, REGNE. I'll check when I get home.

Go Huskers!

Alan

#1857 6 months ago

Just got home. That wire does go to the reset board: A24J1-3.

Here's where I am: the game will boot and start a game but none of the switches and solenoids work. The displays at power up either show one zero in the far right position at Player 1, Player 3 and the Status display, or, on every other power up they show all zeroes with strobing. In either case they come on right away, no four second delay.

Is it true that System 80a games will not activate switches and solenoids if the displays are not functioning properly?

I may be looking at connector issues. Which connector should I look at first?

#1858 6 months ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

That wire does go to the reset board: A24J1-3.

Glad to hear I was of help.

Huskers are my home team. However, I graduated from Kansas State so I tend to root for them more on game day.

Quoted from Alan_L:

The displays at power up either show one zero in the far right position at Player 1, Player 3 and the Status display, or, on every other power up they show all zeroes with strobing. In either case they come on right away, no four second delay.

All fuses are good?
All proper voltages coming from the A2 power supply? (There are test points.)

Sounds like its possibly in slam mode. I have used an alligator clipped lead to jumper the slam switch on the coin door...to temporarily bypass it during diagnosis. If that's the issue clean the switch and make sure there is continuity. My @Touchdown boots quickly. Does not take 4 seconds, but it then begins to toggle between zeros and high score.

Oh...and yes! Your edge connections could definitely be to blame. Clean board edge with pink eraser, Re-pin connectors, etc. Finally your MPU may be acting wonky. (crusty sockets, chip legs, etc. due to battery corrosion)

Can you toggle through test using the button on the coin door?

#1859 6 months ago

All fuses removed and checked.

All voltages at A2 are correct with J2 and J3 (displays) connectors not attached. As I add the displays one at a time, the 60 and 42 volt test points drop a few volts with every added display. I have 66.9 vdc at TP1 (should be 62 vdc) and 49.2 at TP2 (should be 42 vdc) without J2 & J3 hooked up. With both connectors attached and all display connectors attached, I have 52.9 VDC at YP1 and 35.0 vdc at TP2. Each display added drags down the voltage. Is this correct or caused by corrosion on the pins, or something else?

I have performed the Slam Switch mod: put a solder bridge between the two traces just to the right of Z26, and cut the wire into the A1J5-10 connector.

No alkaline damage to the MPU, cleaned all the fingers with the pink eraser.

At power up, with just a single zero in the Player 1 & 3 and Status displays, the Test button does nothing. But when it powers up with all zeroes and strobing, the Test button will take me through the tests.

Well then, go Wildcats. As a Ravens fan, I like any team with purple.

#1861 6 months ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

If you have 73VAC at the bottom connector of regulator board with connector plugged in, your transformer is good.

Roller Disco Update:

Okay, so finally got into the office and ran through some checks:
Rottendog driverboard
Rebuilt Power board
Stock CPU board
Ground lines on each board to the ground plane of the backbox are done

EMI line filter - 120VAC

A2J1 not plugged into board
p1 - 11.7
p2 - 11.7
p3 - GND
p4 - 14.2
p5 - 14.2
p6 and p7 would only show vac when I put red/black leads ac into each which showed ~73vac

Plugged A2J1 into power board and tested A2J2 and J3 (the J2 and J3 plugs were not plugged in)

J2
p1 - 5.1
p2 - 5.1
p6 - -12.15

J3
P1 - 60v
p3 - 42
p7 - 3.7-3.8
p8 - 8

I plugged J2 in, and tested voltage at the 2 capacitors next to the J1 plug on the cpu board
C16 had 5v. C17 had 12v, not sure why i didn't get -12, the cap shows the negative on the lower side.

I then plugged in J3 to the power board and tested voltage at the plug with the displays running
I got ~41-52v during 60v displays changing and 31-38v when the 42v display changed. I did each display individually as well and they were of course much brighter by themselves.

So looks like the power is good, ish? See any issue with the display line voltage? seems to drop a lot.

Game booted but lots of switch issues as many things didn't register, still have to troubleshoot of course but now that the power is up I can move forward.

#1862 6 months ago

Definitely a possibility. Z7 & Z8 are cheap, but U1 is $21.75 at PBR, but it is a socketed chip.

I'm concerned that corrosion on the connector pins may be my problem. I hate like hell to re-pin every connector but I want this thing to work right.

Just use the shotgun method on those three chips or try re-pinning the connectors that affect the displays?

#1863 6 months ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Definitely a possibility. Z7 & Z8 are cheap, but U1 is $21.75 at PBR, but it is a socketed chip.
I'm concerned that corrosion on the connector pins may be my problem. I hate like hell to re-pin every connector but I want this thing to work right.
Just use the shotgun method on those three chips or try re-pinning the connectors that affect the displays?

That U1 CPU chip is definitely cheaper elsewhere. Probably around $6-$8. Jameco or mouser probably has them in stock.

If you suspected battery damage, use a magnifying glass to check out the connector pins, or even extract one that might look like it has an issue. For the most part, I don't generally need to repin system 80 connectors, unlike on system 1 games. If the pins are smooth and free of alkaline, they're probably fine.

Even though the U1 chip is the most expensive, I would suspect that one over Z7 and Z8. From what I've seen, it's a shorted lane change switch on the flipper mech that seems to kill that chip.

#1864 6 months ago

Jameco has them for about $6.00. Refurbished, that's OK, isn't it?

#1865 6 months ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Definitely a possibility. Z7 & Z8 are cheap

This is a good check for MPU TTL chips. I’ve found many bad chips with this simple diode check method.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#Testing_an_integrated_circuit

My brief experience has led to quite a few 7404 and 74ls04... seem to be weak chips. Z7 is a 74ls04. Can’t hurt to check all the other chips on the board as well.

As far as the power drain. I think you are ok for now. At least look over the power supply for cold solder. You may need to rebuild it in the near future due to old weak components.

#1866 5 months ago

what is a fair price for a spring break in good shape, working but needs to be shopped, boards in good shape no damage. location east coast

#1867 5 months ago
Quoted from boilerman:

what is a fair price for a spring break in good shape, working but needs to be shopped, boards in good shape no damage. location east coast

One went for $600 shopped at the York show in September here in PA.

#1868 5 months ago
Quoted from Antennaejim:

One went for $600 shopped at the York show in September here in PA.

thanks

#1869 5 months ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Jameco has them for about $6.00. Refurbished, that's OK, isn't it?

Yeah, it should be ok. They were probably recycled from old electronics.

#1870 5 months ago

Hey everyone - how do you recommend getting into the coin return flap on a system 80?

My flap looks fine, but sits too far back and isn't as free swinging to the front of the hole as it probably should be. Either the entire flap or the mechs inside holding it in place could be replaced or fixed. Also, as you'll see in the pic, the bottom of the entrance itself is dinged up and bent.

I'd love to fix and/or replace these parts, but couldn't find a good way in through the back without forcing anything off once the nuts and screws are off.

Any advice is appreciated!

IMG_2706 (resized).jpg

#1871 5 months ago
Quoted from davebart5:

Hey everyone - how do you recommend getting into the coin return flap on a system 80?
My flap looks fine, but sits too far back and isn't as free swinging to the front of the hole as it probably should be. Either the entire flap or the mechs inside holding it in place could be replaced or fixed. Also, as you'll see in the pic, the bottom of the entrance itself is dinged up and bent.
I'd love to fix and/or replace these parts, but couldn't find a good way in through the back without forcing anything off once the nuts and screws are off.
Any advice is appreciated!

You will have to do some disassembly to access the coin return area and the flap.

The rectangular cover at the bottom of the coin door needs to be removed:

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I don't remember if it's just held in by those two nuts, or if you have to take apart the two halves of the coin door to fully remove it. It's been a while since I took this style of door apart. It probably has more parts in it than any other coin door, which makes it a little complicated to work on.

Once you have access to the coin return area, there isn't anything complicated on the flap itself--it's just a flap that swings freely.

#1872 5 months ago

Is anyone looking for a Blue Time Line apron.
I had both at one time a Black Time and a Blue Time line.
They are gone but somehow this is still here....

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#1873 5 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

You will have to do some disassembly to access the coin return area and the flap.
The rectangular cover at the bottom of the coin door needs to be removed:

I don't remember if it's just held in by those two nuts, or if you have to take apart the two halves of the coin door to fully remove it.

Thanks man, can always count on you to provide speedy insight here. Much appreciated...

I believe it’s the latter of what you said, and a little more has to come off than the two screws and back plate. I got that far and it still felt forced to remove unless I took apart more of the door mechs itself.

Anyone out there have any pics of their coin door taken apart from a past repair or restoration?

#1874 5 months ago
Quoted from davebart5:

Anyone out there have any pics of their coin door taken apart from a past repair or restoration?

I should have photos--just need to remember to dig through them when I get home.

#1875 5 months ago

Ok, it looks like if you take the chutes off that are below the coin mechs, you might be able to then take off the cover for the coin return area without having to dismantle everything else.

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#1876 5 months ago

On a System 1 - is there not some kind of "coil matrix" where a bad diode on one coil could effect other coils like a switch matrix?

#1877 5 months ago

No matrix. All coils are single drive (single coil, single drive transistor).

However, when they ran out of coil drivers, they used lamp drivers (also single drive) which in turn drive a PNP transistor mounted to the underside of the playfield.

No diode on a pop bumper or flipper coil can cause all sorts of weird issues due to the back EMF which can be transferred through wire looms to other circuits.

No diode on a driven coil usually takes out it's drive transistor in one or two energizing.

#1878 5 months ago

Ok, so I guess I'm back to square one. Let me ask this.

My 10pt coil driver continually fails (after like a game, not instantly). However, when it's functioning properly, my 5-bank reset coil is really weak and can't reset the bank if all 5 targets are down. As soon as the transistor blows, the reset coil is back to full strength and resets without a problem.

What could cause that kind of interaction?

#1879 5 months ago

After replacing any shorted or open transistors, you should immediately check across those two coils for voltage (after starting a game). There should be none. Sometimes, pre drive components can partially energized a coil but not enough to make it move. This draws down power and also heats up the driver until it fails due to overheating.

#1880 5 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Ok, it looks like if you take the chutes off that are below the coin mechs, you might be able to then take off the cover for the coin return area without having to dismantle everything else.

You sir, are THE MAN. Thank you.

#1881 5 months ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

After replacing any shorted or open transistors, you should immediately check across those two coils for voltage (after starting a game). There should be none. Sometimes, pre drive components can partially energized a coil but not enough to make it move. This draws down power and also heats up the driver until it fails due to overheating.

Where's a good place to get ground for measuring the coil voltage on these games?

#1882 5 months ago
Quoted from Antennaejim:

One went for $600 shopped at the York show in September here in PA.

I bought that one. I did not pay the asking price.

OP can pm me if he would like to know what I paid.

#1883 5 months ago
Quoted from aobrien5:

Where's a good place to get ground for measuring the coil voltage on these games?

I don't want you reference ground. I want you to actually measure across the two coil lugs to see if there is any low voltage DC on the actual coils windings.

#1884 5 months ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

I don't want you reference ground. I want you to actually measure across the two coil lugs to see if there is any low voltage DC on the actual coils windings.

Ok, so after boot up (chime works) 0 voltage across both. Same after starting a game. It hasn't blown yet and the transistor isn't hot.

Edit: I've now played a half dozen games and can say its never lasted this long. I've replaced that transistor a dozen times and after the last time a few months ago gave up...

Edit2: there it goes. First game after I closed the coin door and disconnected the meter.

#1885 5 months ago

Have you put a fresh 1N4007 across the coil? For $0.09, it's good insurance any time you get a shorted driver.

#1886 5 months ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Have you put a fresh 1N4007 across the coil? For $0.09, it's good insurance any time you get a shorted driver.

Yeah, I have.

Edit: Fwiw, I've done all kinds of stuff - replaced the wiring from the cpu to the driver and all the way to the coil. If I swap the power wire between the 10 and 100pt coil, the same transistor blows, locking on the 100pt coil.

#1887 5 months ago

Hey guys I am helping a friend with a panthera and need help with the battery replacement. I am thinking of going with the coin battery however I don't know which plastic bracket/holder I should buy (through hole/surface, etc etc) to. Does anyone have a digikey link?

Or should I do a AA battery pack?

#1888 5 months ago
Quoted from Boat:

Hey guys I am helping a friend with a panthera and need help with the battery replacement.

I went this route with my SYS1 and SYS80s. Memory capacitor from Ed at Great Plains Electronics.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CERS-1.5F-5V&cat=67

#1889 5 months ago

Thanks for the reply - I ended up getting a bunch AA battery packs in bulk and will do the remote holder method with a diode

#1890 5 months ago
Quoted from REGNE:

I went this route with my SYS1 and SYS80s. Memory capacitor from Ed at Great Plains Electronics.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CERS-1.5F-5V&cat=67

I have the Capacitors on a few Gottlieb 80b games. I mount them on a smaller board so I can reuse the holes for the original battery. It's not fancy, but it leaves the original board unaltered.

Capacitor on the board

Little board upside down

#1891 5 months ago

Joining this club, Just got both my Black Hole and Mars working within the passed 4 days. Replaced almost all of the connectors in Black Hole and Mars wouldn't boot properly because my 2 and 4 player displays are bad (It has the pascal board in it) Unplugged those and it booted right up. Wish I would have known that early, but you live and learn right!

#1892 5 months ago

Just picked up a Mars God of War, my first non DMD. It's missing the sound/speak board. Any recommendations for replacement? Also, what's the best place to purchase the eproms? Thanks.

#1893 5 months ago
Quoted from waldo34:

Just picked up a Mars God of War, my first non DMD. It's missing the sound/speak board. Any recommendations for replacement?

http://www.flippp.fr/speech.php

#1894 5 months ago
Quoted from zimjoe:

I have the Capacitors on a few Gottlieb 80b games. I mount them on a smaller board so I can reuse the holes for the original battery. It's not fancy, but it leaves the original board unaltered.

My method. Small wires, a little solder, heat shrink, and a bit of silicon.
Also not fancy and original board unaltered.

IMG_6766 (resized).JPG

#1895 5 months ago

Thanks not cheap after the conversion. Was really hoping to purchase one from ksarcade.net for $200 but they are out of stock. Sent them a email hoping to find out when they will receive more. Noticed that Pinballlife sells a NOS, should I consider that or the new board is better?

#1896 5 months ago

I just played a fabulous game on my volcano. Rolled it over to 1.24 million. Sweet.

I tried to play another game and it will not play.
It has all of the function in attract mode.
The replay button, diagnostic button and coin mechs do nothing.
Reseated A1-J5 ( it already has new connector pins).
Reseated A7-J1 A7-P1.
Ground mods are all done.
It has played flawlessly nightly for months.
Rebooted it twice. No change.

Since all of the above switches have Return 7 in common should I be looking at Z11 on the mpu?

#1897 5 months ago

Is it possible to run a SYS1 with the coin door disconnected? How would I start a game?

#1898 5 months ago
Quoted from waldo34:

Thanks not cheap after the conversion. Was really hoping to purchase one from ksarcade.net for $200 but they are out of stock. Sent them a email hoping to find out when they will receive more. Noticed that Pinballlife sells a NOS, should I consider that or the new board is better?

Personally, I prefer original boards when I can get them. However, I'll use after market boards on occasion when it's impractical or too costly to find & repair an original board.

#1899 5 months ago
Quoted from aobrien5:

Is it possible to run a SYS1 with the coin door disconnected? How would I start a game?

You can boot a game without the coin door, but since the coin door has a slam switch and start button, it's a bit more difficult.

You would have to add the slam switch mod, and then find the pins on the coin door connector for the start button, and short/jumper those wires together to simulate pressing the button.

#1900 5 months ago
Quoted from REGNE:

My method. Small wires, a little solder, heat shrink, and a bit of silicon.
Also not fancy and original board unaltered.

Nice! I have a Raven someone did before I bought it and the cap is just dangling. Might silicon it down to neaten it up.

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