(Topic ID: 73213)

Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)

By Gerry

10 years ago


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#1751 6 years ago

ok thanks, ya I went online looking for the motor... but i will call for clarification. thanks guys!

#1752 6 years ago

I just called PR, and they are non repairable motors. so looks like it is time to construct a Frankenstein. i will keep people posted if they ever come into the problem i am having.

#1753 6 years ago

Run some wanted ads and see what comes your way. Lots of platforms to drop one on.

#1754 6 years ago

Not seeing a photo of your original, Pittman Motors makes a number of 24v in line gearbox motors with all sorts of gear ratios. Plenty of surplus to search on Ebay

#1755 6 years ago

80F457EE-BBD9-4A62-8ED9-D549D32C3B21 (resized).jpeg80F457EE-BBD9-4A62-8ED9-D549D32C3B21 (resized).jpeg

EEB1248D-9948-4D50-B504-4707F9CAF46B (resized).jpegEEB1248D-9948-4D50-B504-4707F9CAF46B (resized).jpeg

#1756 6 years ago

This one is a little slower. Hurst makes timing motors in that style.

ebay.com link: Hurst Emerson 30 RPM Model AB SP 2687 24V 60HZ 5W 10MFD 2301

#1757 6 years ago

cool, i will look into it thanks a lot.

#1758 6 years ago
Quoted from smailskid:

All youneed is four jamma pins, a crimper, and some wire. Crimp the pins on the wire and insert them in the harness. That is it
I bought the crimper and jamma pins from Bob Roberts but he is no longer open.
Looks like these pins would work. You also need a crimper if you don't have one.
http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=177_184&products_id=1115&zenid=ndg3e69agvv5a13r6sp96hqut7

I was searching for those Bifurcated terminal pins all over the place without any success . Those suggested look OK !
I had to hack some cheap Chinese jamma connectors , and the result was more than OK .
You need some soldering but it is an easy and robust solution

_DSF5639 (resized).JPG_DSF5639 (resized).JPG

_DSF5640 (resized).JPG_DSF5640 (resized).JPG

#1759 6 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Do the kickback targets have good diodes across the coils? Back EMF can send some nasty voltage spikes down the wiring. Since on Gottlieb games of that era, the Pops, Slings, and kicking targets are self controlled (leaf switch actually passes the voltage to the coil) there is no Semiconductor to short out and die telling you there is a diode problem.
Otherwise, the Kicking target should have a switch that armature hits when it goes to end of travel. This is the "scoring" switch that goes back to the CPU. Hand activate the switch and see if the sound turns off because you are hitting the switch and not energizing the coil.

Just getting a chance to work on this. Turns out it is the switch that causes it to kill the background sound. Any ideas where I should start?

#1760 6 years ago

If just closing the scoring switch causes the sounds to stop (no coils energizing), I would suspect a sound board issue. Possibly a bad sound rom (is causing to call a sound routine that doesn't exist). Also possible is sound output drivers from the MPU if other sounds appear to be the wrong sounds.

Tough to troubleshoot without having another game to swap parts with.

#1761 6 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

If just closing the scoring switch causes the sounds to stop (no coils energizing), I would suspect a sound board issue. Possibly a bad sound rom (is causing to call a sound routine that doesn't exist). Also possible is sound output drivers from the MPU if other sounds appear to be the wrong sounds.
Tough to troubleshoot without having another game to swap parts with.

I have another genesis at my shop I grabbed the sound board from. That machine boots but hasn’t been touched/tested but figure it was worth a shot. Using that sound board it doesn’t kill out background sound however no longer get all the other switch sounds. Tried switching roms between the two boards and never was able to get fully working. In fact it seems the best I had for correct working sounds was original board. So frustrating!

#1762 6 years ago
Quoted from phototamer:

I was searching for those Bifurcated terminal pins all over the place without any success . Those suggested look OK !
I had to hack some cheap Chinese jamma connectors , and the result was more than OK .
You need some soldering but it is an easy and robust solution

That’s nice work, very neat looking! Thanks for the idea.

#1763 6 years ago

That looks a lot like the one in Pinbot.

#1764 6 years ago

i ordered on from china... should do the trick. will keep you guys posted.

#1765 6 years ago

On my Ice Fever I can start a game, it will play the music, but does not kick out a ball. Standing there I can hear a relay kick on and off and the inserts are alternating between what I think attract mode is and what the start of a game looks like (I-C-E inserts blinking). I thought the relay and the lights were cause/effect related, and they may be but standing there tapping the flipper buttons I noticed something. When the relay clicks and the inserts go into game mode, the flippers work, and then the relay will click back a second or so later and the inserts show attract mode and the flippers don't work. It doesn't kick out a ball ever, but I think that's because it tries when the relay isn't on and never tries again after that.

Previous owner was kind enough to replace the battery with a remote holder, and I just put in fresh batteries, just in case.

The displays are funky as well for player 2/3/4. Notice the upper dashes are on. Player one looks fine, as does credit and ball count.

OK, on the fly update. As I sat here typing this all of a sudden it was playing random sound clips, firing a coil and random times, and flickering gibberish on the displays.

Here is the new random stuff:

IMG_0298[1] (resized).JPGIMG_0298[1] (resized).JPG

#1766 6 years ago

Hey I joined the sys1 club!

Found my buddy a sys 1 Roller Disco, that I need to get working. Doesn't work all the way though. I started a club thread for it, but figured I would post my issues here as well, since the sys1 club is bigger!

Bought the game with it "lights up but doesn't work"
Upon checking the game out, the J2 plug to the driver board on the PSU was not connected. Got it to location and plugged everything in, that transistor Q45 was hot as all heck.

Dug into the game:
Left drop target reset coil is burned and the sleeve must be melted, mech will not move.
Under PF transistor has wire not soldered to it
Not all lights on PF come up
Displays do not light up
coin up wouldn't work

Went today to test PSU
all fuses tested good
J1 on PS had correct V's
J2 was missing 12 or 14
J3 IIRC was good
(I should of wrote this stuff down)
Tested both bridge rectifiers in cabinet - tested good

I ordered the full PS rebuild kit from Big daddy
Will order coil/sleeve for left drop reset
Looking to source quality 2N3055's for the driver board and under PF remote

Anyone know what length the A17891 coil uses for the drop target reset?
Anything else I should test/look at? I am gone for 1 week so I will not be able to see the game again (good for waiting on parts!)

#1767 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinballer22:

I have another genesis at my shop I grabbed the sound board from. That machine boots but hasn’t been touched/tested but figure it was worth a shot. Using that sound board it doesn’t kill out background sound however no longer get all the other switch sounds. Tried switching roms between the two boards and never was able to get fully working. In fact it seems the best I had for correct working sounds was original board. So frustrating!

This sounds like the exact issue I had with my Raven. That connector on the sound board is the culprit!!! Every time I messed with that connector the sound would come back on. Then it would go away. It’s that connector!!!!

#1768 6 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Hey I joined the sys1 club!
Found my buddy a sys 1 Roller Disco, that I need to get working. Doesn't work all the way though. I started a club thread for it, but figured I would post my issues here as well, since the sys1 club is bigger!
Bought the game with it "lights up but doesn't work"
Upon checking the game out, the J2 plug to the driver board on the PSU was not connected. Got it to location and plugged everything in, that transistor Q45 was hot as all heck.
Dug into the game:
Left drop target reset coil is burned and the sleeve must be melted, mech will not move.
Under PF transistor has wire not soldered to it
Not all lights on PF come up
Displays do not light up
coin up wouldn't work
Went today to test PSU
all fuses tested good
J1 on PS had correct V's
J2 was missing 12 or 14
J3 IIRC was good
(I should of wrote this stuff down)
Tested both bridge rectifiers in cabinet - tested good
I ordered the full PS rebuild kit from Big daddy
Will order coil/sleeve for left drop reset
Looking to source quality 2N3055's for the driver board and under PF remote
Anyone know what length the A17891 coil uses for the drop target reset?
Anything else I should test/look at? I am gone for 1 week so I will not be able to see the game again (good for waiting on parts!)

It may be a better idea to start a tech thread. It sounds like there may be a number of things wrong that will require some troubleshooting.

In the meantime, be sure to look over these:

http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/

http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1

#1769 6 years ago
Quoted from Aladdin:

This sounds like the exact issue I had with my Raven. That connector on the sound board is the culprit!!! Every time I messed with that connector the sound would come back on. Then it would go away. It’s that connector!!!!

Yeah, sometimes you just need to replace those finicky IDC connectors. Make sure you clean the edge connector too with a pink rubber eraser to get rid of some of the tarnish and grime buildup.

#1770 6 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Previous owner was kind enough to replace the battery with a remote holder, and I just put in fresh batteries, just in case.

Is there any battery damage on the MPU? That can cause a game to go haywire if it's not addressed properly.

#1771 6 years ago

Just posted over to the Black Hole club. Thought I'd check here too.
I've got a good player transforming into a great player... In the middle of a teardown. I'm in need.

- Blue Plexi for credit & ball in play on apron
- "B" drop target
- Top PF: LH lower playfield - small triangle
- Top PF: RH lower playfield - below RH flippers

Also, does anybody have water transfers already done for the pop bumper areas?
This image is my cleaned up and waxed state. Not sure if I want to paint (newb). Also a newb to water transfer.
I'm considering just installing new GTB mylar disks and call it a day, but I am interested in transfers.

IMG_3425[1] (resized).JPGIMG_3425[1] (resized).JPG

#1772 6 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

It may be a better idea to start a tech thread. It sounds like there may be a number of things wrong that will require some troubleshooting.
In the meantime, be sure to look over these:
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/
http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1

Sounds good.

I’ll rebuild the ps and start testing again from the pinwiki ps tests

#1773 6 years ago

@desertt1
Step one: channel the spirit of @blownfuse
Step two: Listen to @forceflow
Step three: Make sure your Voltages are stable.
Step four: battery corrosion?
Step five: good connection to the PCBs? Repin necessary? Do you have 5v on PCB?

I have a Touchdown that was similar. Would start a game but had random resetting. Tried to kick the ball out but repeatedly but failed. Was then blowing the solenoid fuse. Would also sometimes randomly kick ball into the lane on other ocassions. Like when we were watching a movie. My voltage was stable from PS. I took all the chips out of sockets and cleaned them with an eraser. Same result. Wonky. Did the wigggle/jiggle of the chips and found the game ROMs on the PCB to be to blame for the random ressetting. I replaced sockets with machine pin sockets. Same. Found out I needed to clean chip legs more aggressively than an eraser on U2 Game rom. (Chip that is just south of the Premier label in the image.)

I think you might have some other chip issues with the PCB too, maybe, but wonkyness is proportionally related to the quality of the connections. At PCB edge connections and sockets to chips. Oxidation and corrosion are your main issues I believe.

D657DACE-9550-4C3C-96BF-E712EAC7729D (resized).jpegD657DACE-9550-4C3C-96BF-E712EAC7729D (resized).jpeg

#1774 6 years ago

Question I just bought a Victory and I am curious about the two high score buttons. Should I be able to cycle through the high scores with these two buttons? I find the only thing they do is allow me to enter in my initials. It makes sense I just wanted to confirm.

#1775 6 years ago

Just for entering initials.

#1776 6 years ago
Quoted from psd4me:

Just for entering initials.

Ty It's difficult to verify functionality like this.

#1777 6 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Is there any battery damage on the MPU? That can cause a game to go haywire if it's not addressed properly.

Quoted from REGNE:

desertt1
Step one: channel the spirit of blownfuse
Step two: Listen to forceflow
Step three: Make sure your Voltages are stable.
Step four: battery corrosion?
Step five: good connection to the PCBs? Repin necessary? Do you have 5v on PCB?
I have a Touchdown that was similar. Would start a game but had random resetting. Tried to kick the ball out but repeatedly but failed. Was then blowing the solenoid fuse. Would also sometimes randomly kick ball into the lane on other ocassions. Like when we were watching a movie. My voltage was stable from PS. I took all the chips out of sockets and cleaned them with an eraser. Same result. Wonky. Did the wigggle/jiggle of the chips and found the game ROMs on the PCB to be to blame for the random ressetting. I replaced sockets with machine pin sockets. Same. Found out I needed to clean chip legs more aggressively than an eraser on U2 Game rom. (Chip that is just south of the Premier label in the image.)
I think you might have some other chip issues with the PCB too, maybe, but wonkyness is proportionally related to the quality of the connections. At PCB edge connections and sockets to chips. Oxidation and corrosion are your main issues I believe.

Thanks to the both of you for suggestions. The remote battery was done by a previous owner before the battery could do any damage, the spot looks beautiful.

As for the other things. I now have a list to check. Thanks for the suggestions.

#1778 6 years ago
Quoted from REGNE:

desertt1
Step one: channel the spirit of blownfuse
Step two: Listen to forceflow
Step three: Make sure your Voltages are stable.
Step four: battery corrosion?
Step five: good connection to the PCBs? Repin necessary? Do you have 5v on PCB?
I have a Touchdown that was similar. Would start a game but had random resetting. Tried to kick the ball out but repeatedly but failed. Was then blowing the solenoid fuse. Would also sometimes randomly kick ball into the lane on other ocassions. Like when we were watching a movie. My voltage was stable from PS. I took all the chips out of sockets and cleaned them with an eraser. Same result. Wonky. Did the wigggle/jiggle of the chips and found the game ROMs on the PCB to be to blame for the random ressetting. I replaced sockets with machine pin sockets. Same. Found out I needed to clean chip legs more aggressively than an eraser on U2 Game rom. (Chip that is just south of the Premier label in the image.)
I think you might have some other chip issues with the PCB too, maybe, but wonkyness is proportionally related to the quality of the connections. At PCB edge connections and sockets to chips. Oxidation and corrosion are your main issues I believe.

I just turned it on to check voltages, and the displays don't come on. That's new. Heading over to the power board, everything checks out ok aside from 5V. On TP4 I'm getting 1.62V, so not the 5V I'm looking for. Investigating that now, but wanted to report my early findings.

#1779 6 years ago
Quoted from toasterman04:

Hey Guys... i am sure this is a long shot, but my motor went on the auger on my big house. I checked with Marco and PR and it is obsolete. is there anyone here with a chance they would have one lying around for sale?

Well I ordered a motor form china, and am hopefully installing it tonight. I will keep this updated for future reference.

IMG_0803 (resized).JPGIMG_0803 (resized).JPG

IMG_0811 (resized).JPGIMG_0811 (resized).JPG

#1780 6 years ago

I am pretty sure your Hurst style timing motor was 24VAC. The gear motor you bought from china is a DC brush motor. If you want to use it, you will need to mount a bridge rectifier in between the wire leads and the motor lugs.

Also, I don't know the application but if the auger motor is running non-stop during a game, a brush motor (especially those really cheap China ones) will eat through the brushes and fail. Thus, the reason why an AC motor was originally used. Probably not much of an issue for home use but would be a big problem if you are operating the game 12/7.

#1781 6 years ago

Also keep in mind that after rectifying the 25V AC you will need a capacitor to flatten the voltage. This will result in a 35V DC voltage which will smoke your motor. You will need to use a series resistor to bring the voltage down for the motor.

I am in the same boat by the way. The auger motor in my Big House is busted too. I am working on a solution with a stepper motor. Can be a nice Arduino project if you are in to that.

But curious about your results with this motor. Good luck and keep us informed!

Marco

#1782 6 years ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

Also keep in mind that after rectifying the 25V AC you will need a capacitor to flatten the voltage. This will result in a 35V DC voltage which will smoke your motor. You will need to use a series resistor to bring the voltage down for the motor.
I am in the same boat by the way. The auger motor in my Big House is busted too. I am working on a solution with a stepper motor. Can be a nice Arduino project if you are in to that.
But curious about your results with this motor. Good luck and keep us informed!
Marco

No Cap necessary. The motor doesn't really need a filtered power source. The pulsating DC will work just fine. If desired, you could put a 0.1 100V disc cap across the motor lugs to help filter out any brush noise. Or even a 1 to 10ufd 50V electrolytic which won't increase the voltage to any great extent.

#1783 6 years ago

I hope you are right, it will make things a bit easier. I don't know how this type of motor will respond on an 100Hz DC voltage with a 35V top value. I am curious about the result.

#1784 6 years ago

i will keep you guys updated with what i did to make it work, and the results. thanks so much for all your input, hopefully this information can be used in the future also for someone else struggling with this.

#1786 6 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

This is probably what you should have ordered from China:
ebay.com link » Ac5v 6v 9v 12v 24v 110v 220v Tyc Plastic Gear Synchronous Reduction Gear Motor

oh snap... ya that looks better...

#1787 6 years ago

well I installed the DC motor last night, with great success. the best part is it is totally reversible if an original motor ever shows up. but for now, the game plays 100%.

IMG_0822 (resized).JPGIMG_0822 (resized).JPG

IMG_0821 (resized).JPGIMG_0821 (resized).JPG

IMG_0820 (resized).JPGIMG_0820 (resized).JPG

#1788 6 years ago

Looking for a decent used or NOS playfield for an '84 Jacks to Open.
Ad in Marketplace also.

#1789 6 years ago

Got a new power supply board as it was easier and less time to just swap than repair for now. So I have 5V and the game boots but it’s still being strange cycling between thinking it’s in a game and attract mode. Will see if I can clean chips tomorrow and if anything changes.

#1790 6 years ago

I picked up a Solar Ride and the displays work, but the small transformer is putting out ~80v AC on tab 8, through the 69v fuse. It shows continuity to the connector on the power supply A2J1 but I get no AC reading on the 2 pins where 69v should be. A2-P1 pin 6 = 69 volts AC (blue/wht/red)
A2-P1 pin 7 = 69 volts AC Return (org/wht/red) Anyone ever see this on their machine? I thought the 69v was needed for displays to work but does not seem to get to the power supply board....but displays work. Also I get 80v off the transformer. I guess I should check bottom panel diodes and the bridges again but thought they were ok...and score displays are on. Any help appreciated.

#1791 6 years ago

Are you checking the 69 AC across pins 6 AND 7 together (not is respect to ground)?

Your displays would not be working unless you had the 60VDC and 42VDC . Unless, of course, your game has been upgraded with LED displays.

#1792 6 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Are you checking the 69 AC across pins 6 AND 7 together (not is respect to ground)?
Your displays would not be working unless you had the 60VDC and 42VDC . Unless, of course, your game has been upgraded with LED displays.

CactusJack, each pin separate using ground pin on black and red on pin 6 or 7

#1793 6 years ago

All,

I'm trying to disable or turn off any extra balls. Per the Gottlieb manual, dipswitch 11 set to ON should reward replay instead of extra ball. I think that's partially true and that there is another setting I'm missing. Prior to any changes, my #11 switch was set to off, and when I scored high enough to award a credit it would instead award an extra ball. Also, when lighting the top right rollover and collecting the "special" it would reward an extra ball. Earlier tonight I moved switch #11 to the ON position. Now when I get a high score, the knocker hits and it awards a special. However, I cannot figure out how to disable the extra balls that light on the playfield. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks!

DIP 1-8=off (one coin, one credit).
DIP 9=on (three balls per game).
DIP 10=on (match feature on).
DIP 11=on (replay instead of extra ball).
DIP 12=on (tilt kills current ball only).
DIP 13=on (show number of credits).
DIP 14=on (play a tune when game started).
DIP 17,18=on (maximum credits 15).
DIP 20=on (chimes/tones when scoring).
DIP 21=on (show high score to date).
DIP 22=on (award 3 credits when high score beat).
DIP 23=on (play a tune when money inserted).

#1794 6 years ago
Quoted from djreddog:

All,
I'm trying to disable or turn off any extra balls. Per the Gottlieb manual, dipswitch 11 set to ON should reward replay instead of extra ball. I think that's partially true and that there is another setting I'm missing. Prior to any changes, my #11 switch was set to off, and when I scored high enough to award a credit it would instead award an extra ball. Also, when lighting the top right rollover and collecting the "special" it would reward an extra ball. Earlier tonight I moved switch #11 to the ON position. Now when I get a high score, the knocker hits and it awards a special. However, I cannot figure out how to disable the extra balls that light on the playfield. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks!
DIP 1-8=off (one coin, one credit).
DIP 9=on (three balls per game).
DIP 10=on (match feature on).
DIP 11=on (replay instead of extra ball).
DIP 12=on (tilt kills current ball only).
DIP 13=on (show number of credits).
DIP 14=on (play a tune when game started).
DIP 17,18=on (maximum credits 15).
DIP 20=on (chimes/tones when scoring).
DIP 21=on (show high score to date).
DIP 22=on (award 3 credits when high score beat).
DIP 23=on (play a tune when money inserted).

Might help if you say what game.

#1795 6 years ago
Quoted from slghokie:

CactusJack, each pin separate using ground pin on black and red on pin 6 or 7

That is not the correct way to check an AC voltage. You need to put your black lead on pin 6 and your red lead on pin 7.

#1796 6 years ago
Quoted from Insane:

Might help if you say what game.

Sorry, Count-Down

#1797 6 years ago
Quoted from djreddog:

Sorry, Count-Down

I don't think you can disable the on playfield Extra Ball, at least not with stock MPU (not sure about others either).

#1798 6 years ago

Just like the original Gottlieb System 1 MPU, the 2005 NiWumpf Manual does not seem to show it supports a Novelty mode in any way (just Replay or Extra Ball).

The Pascal Janin PX-1(4) manual has an extra dipswitch setting #52 which turns an On Playfield Special into a 50,000 novelty award (must not be set to EB via Dipswitch #11). I am assuming you have to turn off all the replay score levels if you don't want them to respond with a credit.

#1799 6 years ago

This is a friend’s Circuis. He didn’t have it very long until this showed up when you power it up. He has played it for a little while, and then this started happening. It will show 88 88 at times, so the digits seem to all be working.

1D0913E5-BDEA-4BF7-AAA4-F67A23023AA5 (resized).jpeg1D0913E5-BDEA-4BF7-AAA4-F67A23023AA5 (resized).jpeg

#1800 6 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

This is a friend’s Circuis. He didn’t have it very long until this showed up when you power it up. He has played it for a little while, and then this started happening. It will show 88 88 at times, so the digits seem to all be working.

What kind of shape is the MPU in? Does it have battery damage?

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