(Topic ID: 73213)

Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)

By Gerry

10 years ago


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There are 6,478 posts in this topic. You are on page 35 of 130.
#1701 6 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

The Q and T relays on the playfield might be necessary--I'm not sure if a board would fully boot without them.

That's what I was thinking - thanks!

#1702 6 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

The Q and T relays on the playfield might be necessary--I'm not sure if a board would fully boot without them.

Well til the Slam is not blocking, there is no reason for the system not to start...
Indeed, Q relay power on the playfield coils and the tilt the Q relay and the pf illumination...
If you set a MPU on bench and power it on, it's booting...

#1703 6 years ago

Well it's not on a bench - it's in a pin... My concern is I don't want to finish clearing and touch up for the next few weeks and be all excited to put it back together and be greeted with another major issue. I'm assuming it should be fine, it just seemed odd to me - but I'd never worked on a system 1 before and know they can be finicky to say the least.

#1704 6 years ago

Anyone on here have a Joker Poker? Can you tell me what color the piece that sits between the head and the cabinet is? It's the piece that the head sits on.

I'm not sure if it's supposed to be black or white. Doing a restore and can't find pictures where I can see that part.

Thanks!

Edit: I THINK it looks like it's black... based on this pic.

http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1306&picno=27058&zoom=1

#1705 6 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

Anyone on here have a Joker Poker? Can you tell me what color the piece that sits between the head and the cabinet is? It's the piece that the head sits on.
I'm not sure if it's supposed to be black or white. Doing a restore and can't find pictures where I can see that part.
Thanks!
Edit: I THINK it looks like it's black... based on this pic.
http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1306&picno=27058&zoom=1

mine is black

#1707 6 years ago

I just finished touching mine up, the head spacer is definitely black, I painted mine a satin finish.

20170922_155706 (resized).jpg20170922_155706 (resized).jpg

#1708 6 years ago

Thanks guys!

#1709 6 years ago

Restoring my Genesis. Just got my nos playfield back from Chris at HEP and it looks amazing! Can't wait to get this one completed.

20171126_114428 (resized).jpg20171126_114428 (resized).jpg

20171126_114158 (resized).jpg20171126_114158 (resized).jpg

#1710 6 years ago

I have a Pinball Pool that the scoring seems whack and I'm thinking it's stemming from the MPU (see picture, has acid damage). I have a replacement board but how can I tell if the MPU will work with Pinball Pool? I'm very new to Gottlieb and know Williams. I know Williams used a universal board and you could switch out ROMS. I don't see a spot on this board to switch out ROMS, advice

IMG_2742 (resized).JPGIMG_2742 (resized).JPG

IMG_2743 (resized).JPGIMG_2743 (resized).JPG

#1711 6 years ago
Quoted from Yesh23:

I have a Pinball Pool that the scoring seems whack and I'm thinking it's stemming from the MPU (see picture, has acid damage). I have a replacement board but how can I tell if the MPU will work with Pinball Pool? I'm very new to Gottlieb and know Williams. I know Williams used a universal board and you could switch out ROMS. I don't see a spot on this board to switch out ROMS, advice

I could be mistaken, but top left, you have a chip marked "F" on the board not in the machine, and one marked "I" on the one in the machine. You also have a sticker above the board that says Pinball Pool uses PROM I. I think that is the chip you need to swap.

#1712 6 years ago

Thanks Insane, totally makes sense now after looking at it

#1713 6 years ago

Yeah, almost positive it's the upper left chip, that controls which game.

If you plan on keeping the machine, toss that junk stock board and get a Pascal board, better reliability, better control and some nice features that are added. Ni-Wumpf is another option but the Pascal is far superior. You can replace just the CPU or you can do a all in one that replaces all 3 boards.

I've never met a single system 1 that didn't require some repinning of the connectors to be 100% either.

#1714 6 years ago

Guys, I'm pretty new to Pinside, so forgive me if this isn't the right place to ask for tech help. We have a Gottlieb Circus. Game seems to be playing just fine, however the sound is very low. Sounds are being made, it's like they aren't being amplified. Think a set of headphones plugged in and turned up but not in your ears. You can just barely hear it. Could anyone point me in a direction I should be looking?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Chisel

#1715 6 years ago

There is a volume control (trim pot) inside the coin door and bottom right, have you tried to adjust it there?

#1716 6 years ago

Volume control turned every which way with no increase in volume. Test button on sound board produces the sounds when Pressed but at the same very faint level. Could it be a failed LM380 amp chip on the sound board or would there be no sound if that chip was bad? How can I bypass the volume pot to rule it out? Can the two leads be simply wired together to bypass volume control effectively making it full volume?

Thanks

#1717 6 years ago

You've got some sound. The amp is probably ok. Sounds leaves the board at A6J1-7 and goes to one side of the 100 Ohm 2 watt volume control. The ground side of the volume control, and the wiper, go to the speaker terminals. Speakers go bad too. So you can test for continuity & connection issues, and resistances (volume control & speaker). You certainly could jumper from the volume control wiper to the volume control audio input, sending full volume to the speaker, but you can also test the volume control with an ohm meter while the machine is turned off.

Worth checking the electrolytic capacitors in the sound path: C8 470uF 25V at the amp output, or possibly the C15 0.047 uF 25V which brings the audio to the amp chip. Be careful with this sound board (static & surges). The larger chips are hard to come by. John Robertson's flippers.com site has a mod which adds some surge protection to the sound inputs on the board.

#1718 6 years ago
Quoted from Troyster42:

Ok, I'm back and removed the screws holding the board down so I can get a better view of the transformer. I think its fried. I remember some of the diodes on the PS were bad and have been replaced. So now to try and find a replacement, or to have it rewound. Since I now have the added fuses and all original fuses are the current amps, if I replace the transformer is it safe from this happening again?

I got lucky and found a whole transformer board out of another Sinbad. I'm finishing up with the mods and repining some connectors. I'm hoping to try to start to power it up in a day or 2.

#1719 6 years ago

Can someone let me know what the proper coil is for the bank of kings on a Joker Poker? My brothers fried and we can't identify the coil.

Thanks!

#1720 6 years ago

manual says A-18318

#1721 6 years ago

Thanks! I looked in the manual and didn’t see it. Maybe the reprint is missing that info.

#1722 6 years ago

The coils are listed on the bottom of their respective schematic pages.

#1723 6 years ago

New Topic: Revamping my Amazing Spiderman Flippers.

Moved this over from the ASM group as I got no responses.

I purchased an Amazing Spiderman (Gottlieb series 80 not Stern) in early 2000's, and it's been my only pin for about 16 years. Recently I purchased my second pinball machine (Bally Paragon), and realized that my Spiderman flippers are really not that strong compared to the Paragon. My project for 2018 will be to try to get some better flipper action out of my Spidey. So... wanted to provide a bit of what I've looked at already and ask a few questions on the best place to start.

A) Voltages to the coils look good, and don't seem to drop off much when the flippers are activated.
B) All of them seem to be similar strength... none really stronger or weaker than the others... just all more sluggish than the Bally
C) EOS switches appear to be working correctly (leaf switch sparking so they're disengaging... which means they also engaging)
D) I've used jumpers to bypass the EOS switch in case they are disengaging too soon, and that doesn't seem to make the flippers any stronger
E) Some looseness in the mechanicals, which posts indicate can cause flipper power loss.
F) I'm assuming that everything is original parts (1980ish), but even if reworked before I bought it, everything is at least 20 years old

Questions
1) Are Gottlieb flippers, in general, not as strong as Bally's?
2) Although voltages seem good, is there anything that could be limiting power to the coils?
3) Lots of postings about rebuilding the flippers... relatively cheap investment... is that the best place to start?
4) Several posting about coils themselves not really getting any weaker over time.. is that correct? If not, would it typically be just one flipper coil "going bad" or would they all sort of get weaker over time. My Bally had some old coils in the cabinet, so I assume they were replaced... should I replace flipper coils if they're not obviously dead; or not?
5) Anything simple and obvious I should check that I haven't already? Experiments I can try?
6) What sequence of "improvements" would you recommend?
7) point me to prior postings or sites if this has all been covered lotsa times!!

Thanks!

Stephen

#1724 6 years ago

I would start by ordering all new plungers and nylon coil sleeves. They will include the nylon link block where you may have some wear. First make sure you can slide the old sleeves out, otherwise, you will need a new coil too.

New coil stops won't effect the strength of the hit but may help quiet buzzing flippers with the new plungers (new plunger end may not seat well on to old coil stop).

I would say that that style Gottlieb flipper assy is traditionally weaker than the Bally.

Get yourself an ignition file (or flat needle file) and try to see if you can resurface the contacts on the EOS switches. You want clean, flat, unpitted surfaces. They are tungsten so it may be necessary to use a dremel grinding wheel (either the fiber one or stone, don't bother with a sanding drum, it will strip it instantly) to grind them flat. If there is no material left, you will need to replace them with new switches.

The new plungers will come without the peg sticking out. If your old nylon block has them, later, Gottlieb eliminated them as they were a cause for some drag.

#1725 6 years ago

PBresource sells rebuild kits that come with everything you'll need except one item I believe.

#1726 6 years ago

You also want to have clean and well adjusted contacts on the old EM style relays under your Spiderman playfield. A poor contact anywhere in the circuit will make the flippers weak.

Clean everything. Make sure there is no gunk, dried oil or grease, in the coil sleeve, on the plunger, on the flipper shafts, or in the nylon bushing (just ran into that problem myself, it made the flippers really weak). Adjust the EOS blades to stay closed as long as is safely possible. See what you can do with these ideas before buying parts. The Gottlieb flipper units are very solidly built.

#1727 6 years ago

Any one else running the Pascal all in one board? My game doesnt want to add names to the high score table. After the first one was entered, it just keeps those initials for any new high scores, and it doesnt add them, it just says "top-5" and shows the newest high score with the original initials, no other scores show up.

Any idea?

#1728 6 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

Any one else running the Pascal all in one board?

My advice is to contact them, many on this site have spoken well about their problem solving.

#1729 6 years ago

I finally bit the bullet and modded the upper half of the playfield lighting on Gold Wings. 100% easier to see now in a dark room.

20171223_190359 (resized).jpg20171223_190359 (resized).jpg

#1730 6 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

modded the upper half of the playfield

I owned Gold Wings for about 8 years. Fun game.
I agree that the top section was "under" lit.

#1731 6 years ago

I went through this a long time ago and had a posting that listed some of the valid replacements. Some of the IC's can be replaced with the low power LS or HCT parts but some could not. On this board - 74F parts would be overkill and are big power hogs.

MPU board:
Easiest one -- 7448 can be replaced with 74LS48 ... both of which are obsolete.

Z1 original 4528, no alternate and obsolete.

Z2 original 7474 but can easily use 74LS74 or 74HCT74.

Z3 cannot use a 74HC04 or 74HCT04, these have "high impedance inputs" and won't work properly in an oscillator circuit. Original is a 7404. You should be able to use a 74LS04 or 74F04 but I have not tried them, best bet would be 74LS04.

Z4 original 4081, no alternate but still an actively produced component.

Z7 Original 74LS04. Can use 74LS04 or 74HCT04

Z8 Original 7402. Can use 74LS02 or 74HCT02

Z9 Original 7400. Can use 74LS00 or 74HCT00

Z10 Original 74LS05. No alternate but still actively produced. Can Probably get by with a 74LS00 or 74HCT00 but I have not tried this. Changing to a 74LS00 or 74HCT00 will defeat ability to test board using QuickScan80 (which I am supposed to be working on Version 3 right now).

Z11 & Z12 Original 7404 in switch matrix & few other places. Only has to sink ~2mA so can probably be replaced with 74LS04 but might result in noisy switching.

Z13 & Z14 Original 7400. In switch matrix. Can probably replace with 74LS00. Don't think I would go to 74HCT00 here as this may also result in noisy switching.

Z16 original 7404 but can be replaced with 74LS04 or 74HCT04.

Z17, Z24 and Z26 original 7404. Digit Strobes. Should be able to get by with 74LS04.

Z18, Z20, Z22 original 74175. Can use 74LS175 or 74HCT175

Z15 original 7432. Can use 74LS32 or 74HCT32.

Z27 original 7404. Can use 74LS04 or 74HCT04

Z28 original 74LS139. Can use 74HCT139

Z29 and Z30 original 7416. Can use 7416 or 7406.

Z31 original 7408. Should be able to go 74LS08. 74HCT08 would work but not a good board to board driver.

Z32 original 7417. Can use 7417 or 7407.

Z33 original 74154. Can also use 74LS154 or 74HCT154 -- all of which are obsolete.

Z34 and Z35 original 7404. Can also use 74LS04. 74HCT04 would also work but not a good board to board driver.

On driver board:
All 74175s can be replaced with 74LS175 or 74HCT175.

Z13 original 7404 can be replaced with 74LS04. 74HCT04 would also work but not a good board to board driver

Ed from GPE just posted this in another thread. May already be in this one but here it is.

#1732 6 years ago

Anyone know what jumpers I need to cut and add to make a 2732 chip work in place of a 2716 prom 2 in a system 80b Arena?

#1733 6 years ago

Looking to add the additional 5VDC and GND connections to the interconnect harness as described in the pinwiki and recommended by Todd in the TNT videos.

Looks like the referenced connectors are no longer available from Great Plains. I know I can order a rebuild kit from Docent for the full connector but didn't know if there was a more economical option since I just need the two additional connections?

Thanks

#1734 6 years ago
Quoted from pincity:

Looks like the referenced connectors are no longer available from Great Plains. I know I can order a rebuild kit from Docent for the full connector but didn't know if there was a more economical option since I just need the two additional connections?
Thanks

If you are exclusively a "Pinhead", then probably not. But if you are also a "Vidiot" or know someone that is, you can scavenge the pins from a Black style (Amp brand I believe) JAMMA video game harness which uses the same types of pins. Just like the Gottlieb connector, the wires are crimped to the pins inside the connector. Not the Blue style with solder tabs where the wire has been soldered to the outside lug and covered with heat shrink. You would need to extract 4 of them and splice the wires together. The pins are easily extracted if you make an extraction tool by opening up a small paper clip, and hammering flat the end to form a very small rectangular stick. Then slide it in that small slot along the edge of the pin (from the PCB edge side) and you should be able to pull the pin and wire out the back.

#1735 6 years ago
Quoted from Biffbar:

You've got some sound. The amp is probably ok. Sounds leaves the board at A6J1-7 and goes to one side of the 100 Ohm 2 watt volume control. The ground side of the volume control, and the wiper, go to the speaker terminals. Speakers go bad too. So you can test for continuity & connection issues, and resistances (volume control & speaker). You certainly could jumper from the volume control wiper to the volume control audio input, sending full volume to the speaker, but you can also test the volume control with an ohm meter while the machine is turned off.
Worth checking the electrolytic capacitors in the sound path: C8 470uF 25V at the amp output, or possibly the C15 0.047 uF 25V which brings the audio to the amp chip. Be careful with this sound board (static & surges). The larger chips are hard to come by. John Robertson's flippers.com site has a mod which adds some surge protection to the sound inputs on the board.

Biff, I took a closer look at c8 and could see some green corrosion on the negative lead of the cap. Replaced both c8 and c15 for good measure and we have sound!! Thanks so much for the help! Great community here!!

#1736 6 years ago

Thanks CactusJack

Quoted from CactusJack:

If you are exclusively a "Pinhead", then probably not. But if you are also a "Vidiot" or know someone that is, you can scavenge the pins from a Black style (Amp brand I believe) JAMMA video game harness which uses the same types of pins.

Sadly I am only into pins at the moment so don’t have access to a JAMMA connector. I’ll keep an eye out for a junk harness I could scavenge from but now that I know a JAMMA type connector will work, I can keep an eye out for one of those also.

#1737 6 years ago
Quoted from pincity:

Thanks CactusJack

Sadly I am only into pins at the moment so don’t have access to a JAMMA connector. I’ll keep an eye out for a junk harness I could scavenge from but now that I know a JAMMA type connector will work, I can keep an eye out for one of those also.

But only the black ones where the crimp pins slide in. Most of the cheap stuff on eBay are the solder lug style and won't work (in both black and blue, so beware).

#1739 6 years ago
Quoted from pincity:

Looking to add the additional 5VDC and GND connections to the interconnect harness as described in the pinwiki and recommended by Todd in the TNT videos.
Looks like the referenced connectors are no longer available from Great Plains. I know I can order a rebuild kit from Docent for the full connector but didn't know if there was a more economical option since I just need the two additional connections?
Thanks

All youneed is four jamma pins, a crimper, and some wire. Crimp the pins on the wire and insert them in the harness. That is it

I bought the crimper and jamma pins from Bob Roberts but he is no longer open.

Looks like these pins would work. You also need a crimper if you don't have one.

http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=177_184&products_id=1115&zenid=ndg3e69agvv5a13r6sp96hqut7

#1740 6 years ago

Good find. I thought everyone was finally out of the individual crimp pins.

#1741 6 years ago
Quoted from smailskid:

All youneed is four jamma pins, a crimper, and some wire. Crimp the pins on the wire and insert them in the harness. That is it
I bought the crimper and jamma pins from Bob Roberts but he is no longer open.
Looks like these pins would work. You also need a crimper if you don't have one.
http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=177_184&products_id=1115&zenid=ndg3e69agvv5a13r6sp96hqut7

Thanks! Good find - I'll need crimpers, I believe this should work?

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=W-HT-1919

#1742 6 years ago

Hi Folks, (LF Cabinet & Head) Rescue

My son and I just rescued an Alien Star and it's in rough shape, the electronics and playfield are still good, but the cab is absolutely destroyed from water. It's still working, so he and I intend to save it if we can. What I need is a replacement cabinet, obviously the chance is pretty low on finding another Alien, but if you all happen to have a replacement Gottlieb that will fit from another title project, it would be great. If anyone has a cabinet and head, (just need the wood, but we can talk parts too) that will fit an Alien please let me know.

I'll post some pics if you want to see the train wreck, it's bad, like sink hole bad.

Thanks,

Didj, (Todd)

#1743 6 years ago
Quoted from pincity:

Thanks! Good find - I'll need crimpers, I believe this should work?
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=W-HT-1919

I think I have the same ones. They work just fine.

If you are new to crimping connectors you should know that the each pin has 2connections to crimp. One should only crimp the insulation and the other to crimp the wire itself. I generally like the smaller set of crimp jaws on that tool for both crimps.

Also order a bunch of those jamma pins in case you screw some up (you might if never done before) and nice to have on hand. They are cheap enough

#1744 6 years ago

Last issue with my Genesis and looking for direction.

Everything works great, ground mods completed and everything.

Issue: when either of the kickback targets are hit I lose sound. Doesn’t come back until another target gets hit. Any ideas?

#1745 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinballer22:

Last issue with my Genesis and looking for direction.
Everything works great, ground mods completed and everything.
Issue: when either of the kickback targets are hit I lose sound. Doesn’t come back until another target gets hit. Any ideas?

Do the kickback targets have good diodes across the coils? Back EMF can send some nasty voltage spikes down the wiring. Since on Gottlieb games of that era, the Pops, Slings, and kicking targets are self controlled (leaf switch actually passes the voltage to the coil) there is no Semiconductor to short out and die telling you there is a diode problem.

Otherwise, the Kicking target should have a switch that armature hits when it goes to end of travel. This is the "scoring" switch that goes back to the CPU. Hand activate the switch and see if the sound turns off because you are hitting the switch and not energizing the coil.

#1746 6 years ago
Quoted from Biffbar:

You also want to have clean and well adjusted contacts on the old EM style relays under your Spiderman playfield. A poor contact anywhere in the circuit will make the flippers weak.

I had already cleaned the contacts for the flipper buttons and EOS switches and didn't have much effect. I also found the slingshot kickers a bit weak so I reviewed the schematic again since they are powered by the same source.

I found two more switches in the 24v path... "T" normally closed and "Q" normally open. It took me a bit to figure these out but they are switches in the Tilt and Game Over relays that cut power to those solenoids. I cleaned those up as well and think that the power has increased a bit... possibly just psychological cause I wanted them to, but it does seem to be an improvement. Three flippers seem to have improved and the fourth I think has legit mechanical issues with things being a bit more loose and seeing more play than the others.

So... if you're cleaning contacts to improve flipper strength, don't forget the Tilt and Game over switch contacts as well.

Next will probably look at getting rebuild kits in the new year.

IMG_0952 (resized).JPGIMG_0952 (resized).JPG

#1747 6 years ago

Hey Guys... i am sure this is a long shot, but my motor went on the auger on my big house. I checked with Marco and PR and it is obsolete. is there anyone here with a chance they would have one lying around for sale?

#1748 6 years ago
Quoted from toasterman04:

Hey Guys... i am sure this is a long shot, but my motor went on the auger on my big house. I checked with Marco and PR and it is obsolete. is there anyone here with a chance they would have one lying around for sale?

I know it's not the best option but Steve at The Pinball Resource has the parts to rebuild your old motor if it is a multi products brand.

#1749 6 years ago

no it is not. it is a hankscraft motors inc. Model E. and on the other side it reads 'bowman electrical prod corp. 24V 40 RPM

#1750 6 years ago
Quoted from toasterman04:

Hey Guys... i am sure this is a long shot, but my motor went on the auger on my big house. I checked with Marco and PR and it is obsolete. is there anyone here with a chance they would have one lying around for sale?

As Cactus Stated PBR sells the parts to fix it and I think they offer a repair service for them too. Not 100% positive but worth the call.

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