(Topic ID: 73213)

Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)

By Gerry

10 years ago


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  • Latest reply 3 days ago by Mthomasslo
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There are 6,491 posts in this topic. You are on page 128 of 130.
#6351 4 months ago
Quoted from DaveTheTrain:

On our Black Hole the tilt bob has to hit the ring multiple times before activating

Try this and see if it helps - implement a larger capacitor Bally style:
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_1#Tilt_Switch_Not_Sensed_Accurately_with_Ni-Wumpf_MPU_Installed

#6352 3 months ago

Question:
What would cause the Test Button not to play any sounds on the sound board?
My Genie only plays sounds for 10 and 1,000 pts. It also doesn’t play the attract tune.

Original Boards. Basic ground mods have been done. Board contacts cleaned. Dip switches set correctly.

#6353 3 months ago

to test, the DIP switches need to be in opposite positions I.E 1 on and 2 off or 1 off and 2 on

#6354 3 months ago

Thank you @mthomasslo. Just tried it. Still no test sounds. I guess the next step is changing the caps on the sound board?

#6355 3 months ago

Yes the caps should be changed, but I doubt that will make the test work. I'd guess either the DIP switch or the test switch are bad. Right after replacing the caps, and being sure to repair any corrosion damage hidden under the caps (especially the two 470 uF's), check the output of the regulator (LM309 or 7805K) to be sure its close to 5.0 V.

#6356 3 months ago

Before changing any caps or other parts have you verified the images of the sound ROM's? If those start degrading and bits flip back to 1 that will cause issues. Would check them first.

#6357 3 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Before changing any caps or other parts have you verified the images of the sound ROM's? If those start degrading and bits flip back to 1 that will cause issues. Would check them first.

On a System 1 sound board, most of the program is mask programmed in the 6530 RRIOT, the small, game specific PROM is bipolar and pretty reliable.

#6358 3 months ago
Quoted from Mthomasslo:

On a System 1 sound board, most of the program is mask programmed in the 6530 RRIOT, the small, game specific PROM is bipolar and pretty reliable.

Didn’t realize it was a System 1 sound card. I’ve run into EPROM issues on the System 80 and System 3 sound cards.

#6359 3 months ago

I'm having a pretty consistent switch detection problem on a lot of switches on my TX-Sector. I know it's not a matrix problem, as cleaning them *very briefly* brings them back to life. When I measure continuity with the switches out of the game, the ohms are very high. I won't even get a buzz on my meter when the switches are closed. It's almost like there's a film or something blocking the flow of electricity? It's very weird. I was able to replace one of the affected standup targets with a new one from pinball resource, and it works perfectly now, but currently, my drop target switches are all starting to fail in the same way: Slowly losing continuity. So now, the bank will never reset because the game doesn't see that the switch is closed when the target is down.

My question is twofold:

1) Is it possible that the gold flashing is worn away creating a continuity problem? Can this be repaired without replacing switches? Could I use something like brasso to clean the contacts safely?

2) Worst case scenario, does anyone know the part number used for the switches in a drop target assembly for 80B? My gut is just telling me to wholesale replace the switches all with new ones to put the problem to bed forever.

#6360 3 months ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

1) Is it possible that the gold flashing is worn away creating a continuity problem? Can this be repaired without replacing switches? Could I use something like brasso to clean the contacts safely?

You'd have to replace the contacts. Cleaning a contact where the plating is gone isn't going to work long term.

Quoted from mbaumle:

2) Worst case scenario, does anyone know the part number used for the switches in a drop target assembly for 80B? My gut is just telling me to wholesale replace the switches all with new ones to put the problem to bed forever.

Just replace the blades/contacts, you can buy just blades and contacts from pinball resource and other places (the other places usually get them from PBR so go to the source). It starts to get very expensive when you buy already built switches, but the blades and contacts are relatively cheap. You don't need a special tool to crimp new contacts in, the stem is made of brass and you use regular pliers to do it - protect the contact surface by wrapping a cloth around one jaw of your pliers.

#6361 3 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Just replace the blades/contacts, you can buy just blades and contacts from pinball resource and other places (the other places usually get them from PBR so go to the source). It starts to get very expensive when you buy already built switches, but the blades and contacts are relatively cheap. You don't need a special tool to crimp new contacts in, the stem is made of brass and you use regular pliers to do it - protect the contact surface by wrapping a cloth around one jaw of your pliers.

Thanks for the reply and advice. This is what I was probably going to do. Looks like most of the switches in the assemblies are sealed in a solid plastic unit, as opposed to the more traditional Bakelite sandwich spacer, so blade replacement isn’t possible in my case. Instead, Is it possible to “drill out” the contacts in the existing switch stack and replace with new ones?

#6362 3 months ago

You can sometimes do that, as long as the hole doesn't get any bigger. That's odd that the switches are plastic blocks I didn't think gottlieb ever used that type but hey, they're in there so I guess so.

You can also just grab some salvaged switches for parts. You'd still need the new contacts of course.

#6363 3 months ago

Anyone know why someone would add all these resistors to r1 on an 80b display? Were they trying to lower the brightness on the display?

IMG_2215 (resized).jpegIMG_2215 (resized).jpeg
#6364 3 months ago
Quoted from Nds777:

Were they trying to lower the brightness on the display?

Don't think so, the -15V display is made by Zener VR2.
Original value for R1 is 1K/2W, I would guess that someone did not had that value available and (if the other three have the same value) created a 400Ohm/3W out of these resistors.
Very impressive construction

#6365 3 months ago

Bontango - check your math.

Without knowing what the other three resistors are, you can't say for sure what the resistance is. However, I agree that they used what they had to get to the correct resistance.

The big question has to be: Did it work?

#6366 3 months ago
Quoted from Billc479:

Bontango - check your math.
Without knowing what the other three resistors are, you can't say for sure what the resistance is. However, I agree that they used what they had to get to the correct resistance.
The big question has to be: Did it work?

It doesn’t work. Basically nothing works on this pin. I think someone used it as a parts machine and swapped all the boards with bad ones.

I’ll double check the values of the others. If they are 400k and not 1k, would that keep it from working?

#6367 3 months ago

Your total resistance for that chain needs to match what was in there originally. Therefore, they need to add up to 1000 ohms. As long as the wattage on each individual resistor is at least 2 watts, they will be fine.

I only see the one resistor value, Which is 100 ohms. The other three need to add up to 900 ohms. I have to assume they are at least 2 watts.

#6368 3 months ago

Just verified. All are 100 ohms.

#6369 3 months ago

Find a 1000 ohm resistor or combination to get to 1000 ohms.

I don’t know what the effect would be for a resistance of 40% of what was designed.

#6370 3 months ago

i feel like the sound on my Alien Star is quite low, even with the POTS at max. What would be a good replacement POTS and/or speaker? The sound card and all the connectors are new-

#6371 3 months ago

This is the A2 power supply board on my Ice Fever. I’m trying to track down some low voltages on some coils, but I can find the other side of this J3 connector. I’ve tried following it in real life, but it goes into a very busy bundle. Anyone know where A2J3 pin 3 spits out?

IMG_7416 (resized).jpegIMG_7416 (resized).jpeg
#6372 3 months ago

The 42V (and 60V) power supplies are used for the displays only. They aren't related to the coils, and wouldn't have enough current capacity to operate any coils. In fact, the power for the coils does not come from the power supply board at all. Coil power comes from one of the rectifiers in the bottom of the cabinet and then through connector A12P1 pin 7 (wire color 222, red, red, red) then through various fuses to the coils (and some of the coils run through the "Q" /
'Game Over" relay.

#6373 3 months ago
Quoted from Mthomasslo:

The 42V (and 60V) power supplies are used for the displays only. They aren't related to the coils, and wouldn't have enough current capacity to operate any coils. In fact, the power for the coils does not come from the power supply board at all. Coil power comes from one of the rectifiers in the bottom of the cabinet and then through connector A12P1 pin 7 (wire color 222, red, red, red) then through various fuses to the coils (and some of the coils run through the "Q" /
'Game Over" relay.

Maybe that’s why I can’t find it. Thanks, I’ll find that section of the schematic since I did see the game over relay path earlier, so I know ballpark where it is and what I’m looking for.

#6374 3 months ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Maybe that’s why I can’t find it. Thanks, I’ll find that section of the schematic since I did see the game over relay path earlier, so I know ballpark where it is and what I’m looking for.

Well what do ya know, F10 was showing 34V on one side, and the same 1.8V on the other side I was seeing on the coil legs. The DMM couldn’t quite make up its mind but bounced between .5 and 1.0 megaohms, so it was blown, but still hanging on by a thread.

Replaced that and the coils fire, and the choppy audio issues (which was my next thing to work on after the coils) seems to have cleared up.

Things are looking up, so will have to play some test games to make sure everything is doing what it should.

#6375 3 months ago

I am looking for a Gottlieb Playboard Simulator. Any one have one they are interested in selling?

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#6376 3 months ago

You mean like this?

I’m not sure about selling it right now since I’m working on a bunch of System 1 machines, but if the price is right ( I have no idea what these go for) I might let it go. Not sure about how shipping to Canada would work.

Also, it does work with an Ni-wumph board.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
#6377 3 months ago
Quoted from Billc479:

You mean like this?
I’m not sure about selling it right now since I’m working on a bunch of System 1 machines, but if the price is right ( I have no idea what these go for) I might let it go. Not sure about how shipping to Canada would work.
Also, it does work with an Ni-wumph board.
[quoted image][quoted image]

That is incredibly cool. How did you get ahold of one of those?

#6378 3 months ago

I got it thru a Craigslist ad about 10 years ago. The guy’s dad was a distributor near Atlanta, Georgia and he was going through some of his stuff and thought this might have some value. I gobbled it up, and asked him to contact me if he found any other pinball related stuff. I never heard anything more from him, so I don’t know if this was it or he just didn’t want to mess with it.

I think ForceFlow also has one, or something similar. I remember asking him about it after o got it.

#6379 3 months ago

I have one playfield simulator available. I don't need it, as my Sys 1 test fixture has one built in. It's missing one key cap, but the switch is fine. They're standard "Cherry" type key caps. I can include a black one that fits fine, but doesn't match the color. (could be painted). Not sure what it's worth, so make a reasonable offer and I'll consider it.

SYS1_PFS (resized).jpgSYS1_PFS (resized).jpg
#6380 3 months ago
Quoted from Billc479:

You mean like this?

The Tolex case makes it look like some weird 70s synthesizer accessory!

#6381 3 months ago
Quoted from Mthomasslo:

I have one playfield simulator available. I don't need it, as my Sys 1 test fixture has one built in. It's missing one key cap, but the switch is fine. They're standard "Cherry" type key caps. I can include a black one that fits fine, but doesn't match the color. (could be painted). Not sure what it's worth, so make a reasonable offer and I'll consider it.
[quoted image]

Does that work on System 80 pinball games?

#6382 3 months ago
Quoted from Snowtrooper:

Does that work on System 80 pinball games?

It's intended for system 1. With some adapters, you could probably get it to work for system 80, but there would be serious limitations, since it wouldn't include all of the 64 switches, ~52 lamps, and ~9 solenoids available in the system 80 architecture.

#6384 3 months ago
Quoted from Mthomasslo:

It's intended for system 1. With some adapters, you could probably get it to work for system 80, but there would be serious limitations, since it wouldn't include all of the 64 switches, ~52 lamps, and ~9 solenoids available in the system 80 architecture.

Thank you for the information.

#6385 3 months ago

Anyone know what gauge wire to use when building a new system 1 A1J1/A2J2? Are the wires 16AWG?

IMG_0744 (resized).jpegIMG_0744 (resized).jpeg

#6386 3 months ago
Quoted from LJ666:

Anyone know what gauge wire to use when building a new system 1 A1J1/A2J2? Are the wires 16AWG?
[quoted image]

see note at bottom of image. 18 gauge.

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#6387 3 months ago
Quoted from BorgDog:

see note at bottom of image. 18 gauge.
[quoted image]

Thank you!

#6388 3 months ago

About to restore a System 1 Sinbad and have an EMI question. Before I do anything I need to replace the line cord but I’m looking at the EMI and the case looks pretty rough (see pic).

Is there a way to test if they are good and or any guidance on what to replace it with if required? The existing one is a:
Corcom 7816
5K1 5A
115/250 V, 50-400hz

Would this be a suitable replacement? https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/qualtek/851-05-005/739529

IMG_0823 (resized).jpegIMG_0823 (resized).jpeg

#6389 3 months ago

I think that replacement would be OK. Are you going by looks or because its bad?

#6390 3 months ago
Quoted from Billc479:

I think that replacement would be OK. Are you going by looks or because its bad?

Ideally I would test it and only change it if necessary but I’m not sure how to test it.

#6391 3 months ago

Do you have power to the machine when you turn it on? Its a coil with caps on each side, along with an inductance coil to filter out noise.

https://www.ato.com/power-line-filter-basics-working-principle

#6392 3 months ago
Quoted from Billc479:

Do you have power to the machine when you turn it on? Its a coil with caps on each side, along with an inductance coil to filter out noise.
https://www.ato.com/power-line-filter-basics-working-principle

Thx for the reference! Once I put in the new line cord I’ll try firing it up. Hopefully it just looks rough and it’s fine and doesn’t need to be replaced. My plan is to follow Clay’s “first time power on procedure”.

#6393 3 months ago
Quoted from LJ666:

Once I put in the new line cord I’ll try firing it up.

It's just a power filter. Basically, an inline surge suppressor. The machine is not going to blow up if it's gone bad or not installed; just replace it for future peace of mind.

#6394 3 months ago
Quoted from sparky672:

It's just a power filter. Basically, an inline surge suppressor. The machine is not going to blow up if it's gone bad or not installed; just replace it for future peace of mind.

Actually it's not a surge suppressor at all. It's a filter, its primary purpose is to be able to comply with FCC (and similar agencies in other countries) requirements relating to radio frequency emissions that could adversely affect nearby radio and tv receivers (main concern is for interference with AM radio reception). The type of filters used in amusement machines, filter in both directions, so they also block RF that could make its way into the game's electronics through the power cord, through the transformer and power supply, from potentially causing problems with the game's reliability.

Many games also have simple surge protectors in the form of one or more MOV devices external to the filter, but often nearby or soldered across its terminals. As long as the filter hasn't failed (an internal open or short) it's almost certainly working correctly, and unless FCC compliance is a concern, they never need to be tested or replaced. MOV's on the other hand, if present, should be replaced if they appear burnt or discolored. The game will work fine without them, but the surge protection they provide is "cheap insurance" to limit or reduce the amount of potential damage caused by power surges or lightning.

#6395 3 months ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

i feel like the sound on my Alien Star is quite low, even with the POTS at max. What would be a good replacement POTS and/or speaker? The sound card and all the connectors are new-

So no recommendation on my low volume issue for AS? anyone upgraded to a better speaker?

#6396 3 months ago
Quoted from northvibe:

Sorry, have some personal stuff that is taking time. BUT part of the operator pile is at my buddies house. I'm going to try to pull all gottlieb boards out so I can get a better inventory. I didn't realize it would be sort of popular..... I have time stamps on who/when posted with interest but I'll sort things and try to come up with fair pricing as they are all untested.

I have some sys 1 stuff to sell. Haven't gotten to the sys80 stuff just yet.

Parts - For Sale
Used, poor condition - “These boards are from an operator find. UNTESTED and sold as is. I'd love to sell it all as one but am open to offers for individual parts 1 x sound board 2 x drivers 2 x power su...”
15 days ago
Duluth, MINNESOTA
40 (OBO)

#6397 3 months ago

The new barakandl psb has an extra ground. Should I do anything with it?

IMG_0719 (resized).jpegIMG_0719 (resized).jpeg
#6398 3 months ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

Should I do anything with it?

"Extra GND"

No. That's just a good physical grounding point if you need it one day.

#6399 3 months ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

The new barakandl psb has an extra ground. Should I do anything with it?
[quoted image]

Nope no need. Have you done the mpu-driver connector mod yet?

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_80#Adding_Ground_and_5V_Connections_to_Interconnect_Harness

#6400 3 months ago

It appears to have already been done by a po. The only issue it was having was occasion dim display power ons. It would affect the lower half of the display. When this occurred I would lose scoring sound and I think some background sound as well but the game would still be playable. When this happened I would just turn the game off for a few seconds and back on and the displays would both be bright. Then the game would play perfectly. I haven’t had this issue since installing the new psb. Might have just been a connector.

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