Looks like po got creative with the wiring to the ball kicker fuse holder, everything else checks out. Pinwiki black hole page has a good picture.

Each of the three pullup resistors on that little board should be soldered to the right bottom terminal (base) of one of the three playfield transistors under the lower playfield (the third one is near the saucer). This is along with the wire that is already soldered to each base.

Looks like somebody added *another* pullup resistor for the left transistor, but there's already a resistor on that little board for that. So I dunno, maybe that wire had come loose and they weren't sure what it was for so they just added another resistor and the wires for that one. It's also supposed to be soldered to the common connection for the fuses like the resistors on the board, not on the other end of one fuse. I wonder what's under that electrical tape...

Thanks for that explanation frenchy, here is a better picture with the electrical tape removed. The third transistor has the purple and black striped wire from the top resistor soldered to the right terminal. So I think everything is correct except the gray wire with the resistor from the left transistor in the picture. The red wire from the bottom resistor on the board is different than the pinwiki picture but connects to the same spot.

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So am I seeing it right, the bottom resistor's red-purple wire was spliced back together, but it does run to transistor 1 like it's supposed to? If so I don't get why the added transistor was tapped into the same circuit, and to the wrong end of the fuse. Is that splice good and solid, 'cause it looks kinda suspicious.

The black purple goes back into the loom and up to the third transistor. The red white from the bottom resistor is spliced together and goes to the transistor on the left of the picture. Pinwiki has those two wires soldered at the right lug of the transistor on the left rather than spliced sloppily like mine is. I am not sure why the gray wire connecting to the fuse holder is there. I noticed the ball kicker arm is rusted and locked in place, perhaps this was an attempt to get the kicker working.

Okay perhaps first somebody decided to splice the two wires that went to base of transistor 1 so they could then run only one wire from the splice to the transistor... fitting and soldering two wires on those pins is kind of a pain. Or one of the two wires had been redressed so many times it became too short to reach the transistor so the splice and single wire to the transistor got around it. Then later somebody else looked at the single wire and thought hey this transistor doesn't have the pullup resistor, so they added one but it appears it was redundant.

Does this image help?

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Yes, thank you, that is super clean compared to my mess.

Hi i have made the ground mods on my genie.
How do i add extra ground the best way on the Soundboard?

/Carl

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Taken from John Robertson (flippers.com)
---
>>>NEW<<< The System 1 Audio board uses a separate +5VDC regulator, and if it's bolts are loose there is the possibility of damage to the TTL circuits on that board. So tighten the bolts! In fact it would be best if you put star washers under both the bolt and nut to make a better ground connection between the case of the 5VDC regulator (LM309K) and the ground plane copper on the underside of the sound board. You might as well run a jumper from this ground to a good tie point along with all the others.
---

While you are at it, if the caps are original, I would recommend replacing them. I have come across a few Sys1 sound cards now where they were damaged from a leaking cap.

I love the logic in sys1s. I recall even the randomization being related to what you would get with a stepper unit, so in a way, a player can try to manipulate this, by observing the 'step'.

I managed to get the OE CPU board back in and confirmed that the 'different sound' plays on every 10th trigger:

There is a different sound when the 10s rollover, and when the 100s rollover.. no difference for 1k.

Going with your theory of combining the pulse on 10s and 100s, that gives 6 permutations to work with. Assuming the tilt and gameover would not be part of what the CPU board will drive.

Curious if anyone else has a newer Ni-Wumpf board they could test with, on a game like totem which seems to support this additional sound. I found that mine does not seem to have this sound effect on the carry over, but apparently it is an older revision of code.

Thank you-

Should i ground between these two?

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Pinball resource the manuals. They do all Gottlieb manuals. If they don't have the original they will reprint it. They have all the original stuff from Gottlieb.

https://www.pbresource.com/pfplayfSS.htm

Here are my first attempts at nickel plating. The left set is an example of the original condition. The middle set is my first attempt. The right is my second attempt. The process consisted of soaking in HCl acid until they stopped bubbling. A quick rinse with water. Then into the nickel plating bath. Then another quick rinse. A quick polish should create a nice bright finish.

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YES! Awesome!

Nickel plating is my newest favorite thing to do. I just did antique pliers that had all of the original chrome worn off. Nickel does not look like chrome; it's more yellow-ish, where chrome is blue-ish (and stainless steel is in between), but when prepped and polished correctly nickel can be just as mirror-like. I also needed to make new stainless foot kicker plates for a jukebox. I used copper sheet that I cut, bent, and polished. Then I nickel plated them in 2-½ gallons of acetate solution and they came out looking like polished stainless... or very close enough.

Hit that with a rotary wire brush and it will shine up great. Or chuck up the post in a drill and polish with 400 to 800 grit sandpaper. If you accidentally take off too much nickel, just pop it back into the plating solution, but sanding off nickel plating is usually very difficult with sandpaper and nearly impossible with a wire brush. The other trick is to leverage how the original surface shows through because the plating is thin. Polish the metal first, then acid dip, then plate it.

Be careful of the HCL fumes. I am not the safety police... the hazard to your lungs, nose, eyes, etc. is obvious. However, the fumes will also rust any tools that are nearby your HCL solution. I was cleaning something with HCL once and the fumes even caused rust on my chrome tools. I keep HCL in a sealed container and dip in a container with a lid. FWIW, HCL will etch concrete by dissolving the cement, so I also keep water and baking soda handy and make sure I only dip outside.

Black hole lower pf ball return gate coil is stuck on. I replaced the coil and under playfield transistor and related q9 transistor on the driver board tests fine. Any ideas where I should look next?

Added some more to my clubness with the addition of an 80B Bad Girls recently, to go with the system 1, system 80 and system 80A in my collection. This is my first 80B.

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Bad Girls boots and plays, but had some weirdness with scoring and sounds. I'm wondering how much of that may be related to this:

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Is there anything else besides bad PROM that could cause the error, or should I just go ahead and order a new chip? Posted in the Bad Girls club thread, but not much going on over there.

Thanks.

It means its failing its checksum, so if you had an eprom burner you could read what you have in and compare to a known good copy (you will have to search the web for these... they are out there.)

You would have more issues if you had addressing or data bus issues (which might also report this) but if the game boots and does something it's likely a corrupt eprom.

thanks for the quick response. I do not have an eprom burner, but have been interested in getting one. Is there one you would recommend?

minipro tl866cs but they are discontinued in the format that does all the early chips. The II version doesn't do the higher voltages needed. Also, it doesn't do 2532 out of the box you have to build an adapter. It will do the eeprom equivalent of 2716's the 2816 so that would solve that there, but some 2732's use a higher voltage as well.

I keep meaning to buy one of the mcmall ones that everyone else seems to use, but just haven't got around to it yet.

You will need an eraser as well.

I can't live without an eprom burner since I do so many rom mods/test burns.

GQ 4x4

https://www.amazon.com/PRG-109-GQ-4X-GQ-4X4-programmer-Eraser/dp/B0121980T0

thanks all!

OK, I guess now I need to ask about a good source of chips too

depending on what I'm looking for, ebay, jameco (grab bag is a good deal you have to sometimes clean off label and erase) or amazon.

I have a 40 capacity eraser, I had the cheaper style pictured, but they only do 4-5 at a time.

I need some help with a spring break machine. I bought it DOA with some bad acid damage to the MPU so I purchased a Swemmer board, and it came to life! except the sound was garbled or just static and sometimes the display would show garbage. if I power cycle a few times the display corrects itself, but sound remains messed up. If I press the reset button on the sound board it makes an audible beep, and the sounds all work perfectly. thinking it may be the sound board I swapped the sound board from my gold wings into spring break and same issue and the spring break board works just fine in gold wings. So, I think I've ruled out the sound board. I have also purchased a gulf pinball 5v power supply and done every ground mod in the cabinet and back box. another thing i tried was to run a jumper from the reset signal from the MPU to the sound board thinking maybe a bad pin or wire yet still no change. another thing I've noticed is once in a great while the game will go past ball 3, I've contacted Fred about this issue and he said the check Z11 to Z14. Which I have with an IC tester and all 4 pass. I am unable to test u4 and not really sure how I would go about that anyway. Any help is greatly appreciated because I have exhausted all of my ability and ideas of what could be happening.

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I believe Fred passed away. Not sure who is picking up support or if they will continue making those boards. They are well built boards and I’ve fixed them before.

Yes, I also read in another thread that Fred passed away recently and emails are not being answered. Maybe within the last month or two.

As far as the sounds, since the board passed the test, look at the Driver since the sounds are triggered by various outputs on the Driver board. How is the Driver Board? Have you tested all the transistors? What about all the edge connectors? What about the MPU to Driver Board harness? Same on the displays... how are the connectors?

Not a magic bullet. If you have all kinds of bad connections, redundant grounds will do nothing to help.

Start with the sounds. Look at the schematics and see which transistors are connected to the sound triggers.

Oh no, that would be a shame he seemed like a great guy the few times I spoke with him.

I flowed solder on the edge connectors of the driverboard and soundboard, I just looked and I must have forgotten to do the display board I'll do that tomorrow. I have checked all the pins on the connectors themselves with a pick to make sure everything is making contact and clean. I have not repinned any connectors. I will study the schematic tonight and figure out which transistors trigger sounds. I guess the only thing I don't understand about that is why when I push the reset button all the sounds work properly

"reset" or "test" button? The sound test is on the sound board and completely bypasses the sound triggers from the MPU/Driver. Otherwise, post a screenshot of the schematic where it shows the reset button.

The button I press is the reset. It is switch #2 there's an audible beep and the LED starts blinking . When I start the game the music plays and all the sounds work correctly. If I press switch #1 it just plays a test tone and the audio for the game remains static or incorrect

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From what you're showing both buttons are on the sound board, which completely bypass any triggers coming from the MPU/Driver. Trace out the wires from the sound connector to the Driver board and verify continuity.

Can anyone help me understand the sound on Bone Busters and which board does what. I understand it has two sound boards and an aux sound board.

my friends BB works other than randomly it’ll let a high pitch squeal/squelch after it’s on for a while.

Note: It does not have the topper and I haven’t heard any of one-eye’s taunts.

I’ve seemed to have eliminated the random screeching by unplugging the lower sound board (less populated one) and the regular game sound and music all seem to be there so am I safe to assume that lower less populated SB controls the speech for one eye?

It emits a beep when the reset button is pushed and if I remember right there is some scratchy/static if I move the connectors so it shows sign of life.

It doesn’t look overly complicated as there’s not much on it as far as components but I assume there are some hard to find/extinct ICs on there I’ll likely not find.

I believe I read only a few games had this two board setup before they switched design but has anyone run into something like this or can chim in on where I could look next?

Hey guy’s looking for a nos or new RoboWar translite. Let me know if ya have a lead. Thanks

Anyone interested in System 1 rom's? I have A(409), B, C, D, F, H, J, N, P, and R. Asking $15 each plus shipping. PM me for more info.

Played a TX Sector (80b) last night and while the lock saucers registered, you could never start MB. Anyone ever seen this? Not sure what to suggest for them to fix. They light locks properly, then just go into the saucers and get kicked out. They aren’t held.

Is the game teleporting the ball correctly when the shots are lit for teleport, but *not* lit for lock? The game requires 3 balls. Upon startup, if it senses 3 balls in the trough, the game will never have a teleport light lit, and a shot to any of the 3 teleport locations will only hold the ball to stage it for teleportation. If any of the switches for the 2 saucers in each teleport location are flaky, the game might lose track of the balls and think only 2 are in play, not allowing locks to occur.

I just bought a Monte Carlo that is going to need a translite insert. All the original reproductions or alternates are EU based and don't shit to the USA. What are people doing for new translites?

Reach out to Mayfair Amusements. They stock originals for a lot of 80B games, and are based in New York.

Thanks for the tip. I e-mailed them and unfortunately they no longer have Monte Carlo

Was time to wax and clean the playfield again, so I decided to have some fun with Spring Break .

I usually keep things original, but it’s such a campy title that I decided to add a few fun mods.

Shark and surf board mod:
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Spotlight, boom box, and bucket of Coronas:

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Palm trees:

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On our Black Hole the tilt bob has to hit the ring multiple times before activating, it reminds me of how a Bally solid state bob behaves if missing the capacitor.

I coated the bob in tin foil and it tilts instantly when it hits the ring.

The tilt bob is a graphite one so could it be the material isn't great for the current required?
Do sys80s require a different material tilt bob?

We are using a Pascal all in one board with the game set to no tilt warnings.

Could just be really dirty. I'd clean the ring and bob so they are making good contact as a first step, if you haven't.

Both are brand new. The game was missing the tilt bob when we got it so part of my restore was new bob and rod, plus ring was tumbled to a shine.

It's an odd issue !

I'm digging the palm trees! Might have to copy cat that

Hmmm. Maybe the bob isn't making good contact with the rod? You able to steal a bob from another game?

So I’ve searched but I haven’t really found a clear answer to this.

When repinning a Sys80b edge interconnect harness for the mpu/driver board, do you -need- to use the split bifurcated pins or will regular single blade .156 work there in a pinch?

The standard (non split) pins work fine.

Not sure if this has ever been posted, but here’s a video of a rare System 3 prototype Bad Girls. Tell-tale signs: display animation for match sequence, different attract mode, thin flippers, and back panel lamps flash during attract.

Pretty cool!