(Topic ID: 73213)

Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)

By Gerry

9 years ago


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#5801 85 days ago

hopefully readable

pasted_image (resized).png
#5802 85 days ago

I key posted all these images of game settings for future use.

#5803 85 days ago
Quoted from BorgDog:

hopefully readable[quoted image]

thanks

#5804 82 days ago

i am running into a "stucky through" on my Genesis. It used to do it rarely but since i moved the game to a different spot is it doing more often.

The ball drain and the other one isn't kicking out right. I am not sure if it if the wire blocking the ball from coming out opening up right, or an issue with leveling? Is this a common issue? Anything to look out for?

#5805 82 days ago

Maybe the one way gate is flipped. I’d take the apron off and watch what’s going on.

#5806 82 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Maybe the one way gate is flipped. I’d take the apron off and watch what’s going on.

yeah, seems like leveling can have a big impact on it as well-

#5807 82 days ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

yeah, seems like leveling can have a big impact on it as well-

Haven’t had any issues on my games and I’m not crazy strict how I level my games.

#5808 80 days ago

Hey folks, I'm doing a full restoration on a Spirit; the thing that I'm stuck on is the metal ball guides (the sheet metal ones, not the wire forms.)
The ones that came with the game are usable, but no amount of Mother's mag polish will make them truly shiny, as it looks like Gottlieb used plated metal rather than stainless steel. These have corrosion/pitting which at best would only be held at bay with a good shining and waxing.

I'm hesitant to spray primer and metallic paint on these as I just think it will make them look spray painted, but I also am not set up to try and stamp my own replacements. Is anyone making repro guides? What are Gottlieb owners doing to restore these, if not replacing them outright?

#5809 80 days ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Hey folks, I'm doing a full restoration on a Spirit; the thing that I'm stuck on is the metal ball guides (the sheet metal ones, not the wire forms.)
The ones that came with the game are usable, but no amount of Mother's mag polish will make them truly shiny, as it looks like Gottlieb used plated metal rather than stainless steel. These have corrosion/pitting which at best would only be held at bay with a good shining and waxing.
I'm hesitant to spray primer and metallic paint on these as I just think it will make them look spray painted, but I also am not set up to try and stamp my own replacements. Is anyone making repro guides? What are Gottlieb owners doing to restore these, if not replacing them outright?

When I restored my Spring Break, I made new ones.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/if-florida-were-a-pinball-machine-aka-my-first-gottlieb/page/2#post-6512489

#5810 80 days ago

I am looking for a working sound board for a RoboWar. Please let me know if you have one for sale. Thanks.

#5811 80 days ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Hey folks, I'm doing a full restoration on a Spirit; the thing that I'm stuck on is the metal ball guides (the sheet metal ones, not the wire forms.)
The ones that came with the game are usable, but no amount of Mother's mag polish will make them truly shiny, as it looks like Gottlieb used plated metal rather than stainless steel. These have corrosion/pitting which at best would only be held at bay with a good shining and waxing.
I'm hesitant to spray primer and metallic paint on these as I just think it will make them look spray painted, but I also am not set up to try and stamp my own replacements. Is anyone making repro guides? What are Gottlieb owners doing to restore these, if not replacing them outright?

Maybe could have them replated, depending on how deep the corrosion is. Is it like big pits, or just dulling on the surface where you can shine it up but then it would likely oxidize and get dull again? The original Gottlieb guides from back then look very chrome-y if a game was in a good environment.

#5812 80 days ago

Anyone have the wire color layout for the right side pop bumper? Jacks To Open pin... Mine wasn't working and I checked someone hacked it out. I found the proper switch but I'm not sure what wires go where. Thanks!

52504839226_cfe63e7533_o(1) (resized).jpg52505315075_0866eab149_o (resized).jpg

#5813 80 days ago
Quoted from sparky672:

Right. This is why I am suspecting the connector.

Circling back to this. Was out of molex connectors and just finally got them back in. Repinned the connectors both on the driver and the sound board and got nothing.

Back to square one. Here's a thought, if the sound board had been plugged or unplugged while powered, what would that affect? If there was a flaky power supply or connector, maybe that would lead us to a root cause?

#5814 79 days ago
Quoted from PhillyArcade:

Anyone have the wire color layout for the right side pop bumper? Jacks To Open pin... Mine wasn't working and I checked someone hacked it out. I found the proper switch but I'm not sure what wires go where. Thanks!

The wire with black-black-black stripes and the wire with the blue-brown-brown stripes are for the count switch.
That would be the highest in the stack and is activated when the pop bumper pulls in.
It does not matter which wire goes on which blade.
There is no diode on the switch (its on the diode board elsewhere).

The spoon blade should get the orange-orange-orange striped wire and the black-red-red striped wire.
Again, it does not matter which wire goes on which blade.

Let me know it you need the manual file.

Peter
www.inkochnito.nl

#5815 79 days ago
Quoted from radial_head:

.... Here's a thought, if the sound board had been plugged or unplugged while powered, what would that affect? ...

That would be bad. Plugging or unplugging something that's powered up generates high voltage spikes (transients). If the capacitors on the sound board were not large enough to clamp these spikes, then you could have literally blown anything on that sound board. You would have to start with the schematics and trace it all out with some methodical troubleshooting.

#5816 79 days ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

The wire with black-black-black stripes and the wire with the blue-brown-brown stripes are for the count switch.
That would be the highest in the stack and is activated when the pop bumper pulls in.
It does not matter which wire goes on which blade.
There is no diode on the switch (its on the diode board elsewhere).
The spoon blade should get the orange-orange-orange striped wire and the black-red-red striped wire.
Again, it does not matter which wire goes on which blade.
Let me know it you need the manual file.
Peter
www.inkochnito.nl

Thank you! I'll give that a shot and let you know..

#5817 78 days ago

Hi there,
Does anyone have a nice Buck Rogers backglass for sale?
Contact me by pm.
Thanks

#5818 72 days ago
Quoted from RDBowers:

If you need it now, use https://pinballleds.ca/index.php?route=product/product&path=95&product_id=564 and it will ship from Canada. If you can wait 6 to 8 weeks I hope to have distribution set up in the US.

Marco Pinball is now distributing the single sided edge connectors that I have produced for Gottlieb System 1, 80, 80a and 80b machines. They have the 7, 9, 15, 19, 21 and 24 pin versions listed. I have also produced the 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 17 and 24 with tabs version, but they are not listed yet.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=CONNECTOR+EDGE+SINGLE+PIN+.156+INCH.
They are sold in kits that include the housing, crimp connectors and label.

#5819 72 days ago
Quoted from RDBowers:

Marco Pinball is now distributing the single sided edge connectors that I have produced for Gottlieb System 1, 80, 80a and 80b machines.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=connector%20edge%20single&VIEW_SIZE=24&VIEW_INDEX=0&sortOrder=SortKeywordRelevancy.
They are sold in kits that include the housing, crimp connectors and label.

That’s awesome, great work. I have used these connectors for my TX build and they are awesome.

#5820 72 days ago

I’m working on a couple system 80 sound/speech boards. One is the early version B20887-1 but it never had the mods installed. I’ve seen a picture on pinwiki.com that shows them.

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/images/7/7a/SoundAndSpeechBoard-1Modified.jpg

Is there a tech note or description that covers what should be done and what it fixes? Would like to finish this board.

#5821 72 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I’m working on a couple system 80 sound/speech boards. One is the early version B20887-1 but it never had the mods installed. I’ve seen a picture on pinwiki.com that shows them.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/images/7/7a/SoundAndSpeechBoard-1Modified.jpg
Is there a tech note or description that covers what should be done and what it fixes? Would like to finish this board.

Page 44 of the BHHHC book has some service information on early sound boards. You can find it here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/PDF%2520Pinball%2520Misc/Black-Hole%2520and%2520Haunted-House%2520Repair%2520Guide.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwicnoPV6Mn7AhXaJkQIHS-TAwMQFnoECAsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3cCjlmN3sb_m56QibD_fHa

#5822 71 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Is there a tech note or description that covers what should be done and what it fixes? Would like to finish this board.

You want to get a copy of the Gottlieb On Target Newsletter from September 1981, Vol 2, Issue 8.

page 1

page 2

page 3

page 4

#5823 71 days ago
Quoted from RGarriott:

That’s awesome, great work. I have used these connectors for my TX build and they are awesome.

Glad you liked them RGarriott. Thanks for the testimonial and the support!

#5824 71 days ago
Quoted from RDBowers:

Glad you liked them RGarriott. Thanks for the testimonial and the support!

Super glad to see ya got them in the States.

#5825 71 days ago
Quoted from sparky672:

You want to get a copy of the Gottlieb On Target Newsletter from September 1981, Vol 2, Issue 8.
[quoted image]

Thank You! This is awesome and exactly what I needed. Can finish up this sound card on the weekend.

#5826 71 days ago
Quoted from sparky672:

You want to get a copy of the Gottlieb On Target Newsletter from September 1981, Vol 2, Issue 8.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Looking at the article, it looks like the BHHHC articles were just a collection of these bulletins and other tips

#5827 71 days ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

Looking at the article, it looks like the BHHHC articles were just a collection of these bulletins and other tips

They were. The compilers of it got really angry when people shared the info too, as if they had wrote it.

#5828 71 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

They were. The compilers of it got really angry when people shared the info too, as if they had wrote it.

Lol, a friend gave me a bound issue of it. It's fun to have but the PDFs are easier to use

#5829 70 days ago

I finally picked up a NOS Sinbad backglass from Mayfair Amusements. I just about doubled my investment in this machine by getting the new backglass, but the results speak for themselves. I highly recommend buying from Mayfair Amusements.
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#5830 67 days ago

I need to replace the backbox motor for Spirit; I heard it said that you cannot use the same motor as people were using in Black Hole rebuilds, which seems very surprising to me.

Any insight into that from you System 80 veterans?

#5831 67 days ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

same motor as people were using in Black Hole rebuilds

Must ask, what motor is this?

#5832 67 days ago
Quoted from dozer1:

Must ask, what motor is this?

Spirit has a spinning disc in the back box.

#5833 67 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Spirit has a spinning disc in the back box.

Yep. But I was wondering what motor are guys using for Black Hole spinning disk motors.

#5834 67 days ago

So my answer is probably here. https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Black_Hole#Replacing_the_Black_Hole_.22Spinning_Disk.22_Motor

I cannot help sethbenjamin with his original question though from post #5830. Hope someone else can chime in on it.

#5835 66 days ago

Does anyone know what Gottlieb game was the first to feature the "status report" by holding a flipper? Robo-War has one, but it doesn't look like TX-Sector has one (can someone please verify this?). Do any System 80B games prior to Robo-War have one, or any games after Robo-War that *don't* have one? I know ROM space was tight then, so I'm just curious if it might have also been game specific.

#5837 66 days ago
Quoted from dozer1:

I cannot help sethbenjamin with his original question though from post #5830. Hope someone else can chime in on it.

I don't know for certain that there actually is a problem using the same motor that people use for Black Hole. It seems extremely unlikely that there was a significant difference between 2 system 80 games that came out, what, within a year of each other?

There is a company called ServoCity which has motors and mounts which work for Black Hole. I'm probably just going to go ahead and get the necessary parts from there. Will report back once I get toward the end of the restoration!

#5838 66 days ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

I don't know for certain that there actually is a problem using the same motor that people use for Black Hole. It seems extremely unlikely that there was a significant difference between 2 system 80 games that came out, what, within a year of each other?

Interesting theory. Now that you mention it, there is also a gearmotor on the variable shooter lane for Volcano, which came out one month before Black Hole. I wonder if these are indeed the same or similar in some fashion?

Volcano:

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/21009

Screen Shot 2022-11-30 at 5.59.17 PM (resized).png

Spirit:

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/B-22202

Screen Shot 2022-11-30 at 5.59.45 PM (resized).png

It appears that they both have the same motor, output shaft, and frame, but different gears, torque, and RPM.

I suspect Black Hole looks similar, but with yet another set of gears?

EDIT: As subsequently pointed out, Black Hole's motor is completely different in many ways.

#5839 66 days ago
Quoted from sparky672:

Interesting theory. Now that you mention it, there is also a gearmotor on the variable shooter lane for Volcano, which came out one month before Black Hole. I wonder if these are indeed the same or similar in some fashion?
Volcano:
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/21009
[quoted image]
Spirit:
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/B-22202
[quoted image]
Very similar, but maybe not identical to each other or Black Hole?

The motor for the backbox is completely different. Black Hole uses a small gear motor.

The motor you pictured is more like the motor used for the robot reveal in Genesis and similar to the motor for the roulette wheel in Monte Carlo.

#5840 66 days ago

Does Diamond Lady have one? It would be interesting if it did.

I know Bone Busters has one, but as far as I can tell, Bad Girls does not--so I'm thinking the status report was implemented into 80B titles on a per game basis?

#5841 66 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

The motor for the backbox is completely different. Black Hole uses a small gear motor.

Then that answers the OP's question about Spirit and Black Hole not using the same motor, since I showed the Spirit motor for sale at Marco.

#5842 66 days ago
Quoted from sparky672:

I suspect Black Hole looks similar, but with yet another set of gears?

I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume that the Black Hole motor at most had different gearing and therefore spun at a slower or faster rate. Someone who understands clockwork could maybe figure out exactly what the gearing is supposed to be,lol, but as long as it’s in the right ballpark for how fast it spins and it isn’t gonna make anything catch fire…

#5843 66 days ago

Thanks to everyone who posted about this!
Gotta love those “Out Of Stock Forever” Marco listings!

#5844 66 days ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume that the Black Hole motor at most had different gearing and therefore spun at a slower or faster rate.

The Spirit manual says the motor is powered by 28VAC
The Black Hole manual says the motor is powered by 6VDC
The Black Hole motor looks very different to the Spirit example above.

You'll have to get creative.

#5845 66 days ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

I’m gonna go out on a limb and assume that the Black Hole motor at most had different gearing and therefore spun at a slower or faster rate. Someone who understands clockwork could maybe figure out exactly what the gearing is supposed to be,lol, but as long as it’s in the right ballpark for how fast it spins and it isn’t gonna make anything catch fire…

I think Robotworkshop already stated that based on the photos I posted, the motor in Spirit is completely different than Black Hole. And like Quench points out, the motor types and voltages aren't even close... so don't rule out a fire.

Not sure why you'd want to use the Black Hole motor in a Spirit in the first place, when you could probably find a suitable replacement from the same supplier.

#5846 66 days ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

Does Diamond Lady have one? It would be interesting if it did.
I know Bone Busters has one, but as far as I can tell, Bad Girls does not--so I'm thinking the status report was implemented into 80B titles on a per game basis?

Yes. It’s to show you the current jackpot value I believe.

#5847 66 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

The Spirit manual says the motor is powered by 28VAC
The Black Hole manual says the motor is powered by 6VDC
The Black Hole motor looks very different to the Spirit example above.
You'll have to get creative.

Quoted from sparky672:

I think Robotworkshop already stated that based on the photos I posted, the motor in Spirit is completely different than Black Hole.

Damn. Somehow missed the point entirely, lol. Guess I was trying to hear what I wanted to hear…
How weird that they used such a different configuration for basically the same end. Gottlieb were a wacky bunch.

The ServoCity site seems only to have DC motors. I’d welcome pointers if anybody has ideas. So far my Google searches come up empty.

#5848 66 days ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Damn. Somehow missed the point entirely, lol. Guess I was trying to hear what I wanted to hear…
How weird that they used such a different configuration for basically the same end. Gottlieb were a wacky bunch.
The ServoCity site seems only to have DC motors. I’d welcome pointers if anybody has ideas. So far my Google searches come up empty.

Maybe you can find something useful here : https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-28vac-rpm.html

#5849 66 days ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

I’d welcome pointers if anybody has ideas.

Use a bridge rectifier to convert the 28VAC to 26VDC and use a 24VDC motor.

Or wire a 6VDC motor to 6VDC like Black Hole.

Spirit wiring schematic - motor in the middle:
Wiring_Backbox.png

Black Hole wiring schematic - motor in the lower area:
Wiring_Backbox.png

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