(Topic ID: 73213)

Home for the Gottlieb SYS1-SYS80B guys, Yep it's a club :)

By Gerry

8 years ago


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#5401 59 days ago

Have an unusual issue that I am looking for some information. Just had some friends playing my Gottlieb Volcano over the weekend, and they said they were getting electrically shocked while playing (flippers) and the coin door was giving a shock as well. I assumed they had their hands on the side rails next to the flippers (as they were playing).

Ironically, the game plans normal / as it should, with no blown fuses. The one (1) player grabbed his multimeter and stated he is “seeing” 70 volts AC on the door when the game is powered up. Anyone ever experience this? Any ideas where to check? Thanks in advance.

#5402 59 days ago

Hello All:
system 1 power supply question. With just power supply connector J1 connected to the power supply, I am not getting any voltage for the leads for the 69V. I am also getting no volts on the 40V and 8 V leads. Is this due to the power supply being bad? Example the caps at C1, C6, C4,C5. Or am I looking at the small Transformer in the bottom of the game being bad? i am curious what voltage I should be seeing at the transformer. What Leads should I meter? Thanks for any help. I have added fuses to the leads on the small transformer as a first step before turning on the game.
Mike

#5403 59 days ago
Quoted from Snowtrooper:

Have an unusual issue that I am looking for some information. Just had some friends playing my Gottlieb Volcano over the weekend, and they said they were getting electrically shocked while playing (flippers) and the coin door was giving a shock as well. I assumed they had their hands on the side rails next to the flippers (as they were playing).
Ironically, the game plans normal / as it should, with no blown fuses. The one (1) player grabbed his multimeter and stated he is “seeing” 70 volts AC on the door when the game is powered up. Anyone ever experience this? Any ideas where to check? Thanks in advance.

Wouldn't their be fish paper or strip of material that that should keep the switches isolated from the buttons.

Check to see if any wires are stripped or rubbing on the metal.

#5404 59 days ago

It is official - I listed my Gottlieb Eclipse archival proof set.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/137607

20220619_162427 (resized).jpg
#5405 59 days ago
Quoted from Snowtrooper:

Have an unusual issue that I am looking for some information. Just had some friends playing my Gottlieb Volcano over the weekend, and they said they were getting electrically shocked while playing (flippers) and the coin door was giving a shock as well. I assumed they had their hands on the side rails next to the flippers (as they were playing).
Ironically, the game plans normal / as it should, with no blown fuses. The one (1) player grabbed his multimeter and stated he is “seeing” 70 volts AC on the door when the game is powered up. Anyone ever experience this? Any ideas where to check? Thanks in advance.

Is the pin grounded at the electrical socket?

#5406 58 days ago

Snowtrooper - Has this just started? If so, you have fish paper (insulation) breaking down, or the ground from the electrical plug opened up, or the grounding inside the machine opened up.

If this is happening all the time, then check to verify the electrical cord is connected properly inside the machine, and that all the grounding is attached properly. Make sure the electrical cord has the ground prong - sometimes people pull them out because they don't have a grounded outlet.

Don't ignore this issue - it will only get worse and can get somebody hurt.

#5407 58 days ago

That would be an interesting game to build Mad_Dog_Coin_Op

#5408 58 days ago
Quoted from RDBowers:

I put some thought into creating a double sided connector housing (A1-J4, A3-J1 and A3-J3) that would use the more common 08-52-0072 crimp connector. I have plans for the polarizing key that can be plugged in where needed. Here are some images of the System 80 A3-J1 connector I designed. The connector would have the be squeeezed a litle when it is pushed through the hole in the back, but it is do-able.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
The one potential problem I see is the contacts from opposite sides will touch each other when the connector doesn't have a board plugged into it.
For A1-J4 and A3-J1
1 - Ground shorts to Ground - A
2 - +5 VDC shorts to +5 VDC - B
3 - DS2 shorts to DS1 - C
4 - LD3 shorts to DS4 - D
5 - LD4 shorts to DS3 - E
6 - LD2 shorts to DS6 - F
7 - LD1 shorts to DS5 - H
,,,
,,,
21 - Knocker shorts to Sound 8 - Y
22 - 3rd Counter shorts to Sound 4 - Z
23 - 2nd Counter shorts to Sound 2 - A*
24 - 1st Counter shorts to Sound 1 - B*
Shorting 1 to A and 2 to B is no problem, but I am not really sure if the rest would 1) be a serious problem and smoke something on one of the boards, 2) just be a minor problem and produce erratic behaviour oe 3) there would be no problem. I suspect scenario 1 applies to A3-J3. Does anybody know the electronics well enough to offer their opinion?
There is a simple solution. DON'T TURN THE POWER ON WHEN ONE OF THE DOUBLE SIDED CONNECTORS IS NOT PLUGGED IN, or PLUG AN INSULATOR INTO UNCONNECTED CONNECTOR BEFORE TURNING ON THE POWER.
La4s any comments? Others?

Quoted from Andy_B:

Its inevitable that someone will, at some point, turn on the pin with one of these connectors unplugged, particularly when troubleshooting.
While I applaud your efforts you are introducing an extra and unnecessary hazard which I don't think is acceptable.
Perhaps a re-design is in order.

I would agree with Andy_B, eventually someone will turn the game on with the harness not connected. I can't speak to the full techincal issue caused by pins shorting together.

Do they short together in the design because these smaller pins need to be closer to the board to have enough pressure to make solid contact?

Could you offset the top and bottom pins in the connector so they would not touch? So, the top pins would be a 1/8 of an inch further forward in the connect? The pads on the PCB are relaively long, and may allow for the offset pins.

#5409 57 days ago
Quoted from Snowtrooper:

Anyone ever experience this? Any ideas where to check?

Make sure your plug into the wall outlet has a ground pin.

#5410 57 days ago

. oops, double post.

#5411 57 days ago

Does anyone have a system 80 3-bank drop target assembly they would sell? I have a 4-bank assembly already, and I would like a 3-bank of similar design. It's for a homebrew project, and I'll be making new targets to go in both assemblies, so I would like them both to be able to use the same targets to keep things simpler. My best guess is that my 4-bank came from Star Race. Let me know, thanks in advance!

IMG_3659 (resized).jpegIMG_3660 (resized).jpeg
#5412 57 days ago
Quoted from Snowtrooper:

Have an unusual issue that I am looking for some information. Just had some friends playing my Gottlieb Volcano over the weekend, and they said they were getting electrically shocked while playing (flippers) and the coin door was giving a shock as well. I assumed they had their hands on the side rails next to the flippers (as they were playing).
Ironically, the game plans normal / as it should, with no blown fuses. The one (1) player grabbed his multimeter and stated he is “seeing” 70 volts AC on the door when the game is powered up. Anyone ever experience this? Any ideas where to check? Thanks in advance.

UPDATE:

The plug on the end of the cord only had two (2) blades, with NO ground prong. There was a ground wire, but it was cleanly cut and tucked into the housing. I don’t know how I missed this, but I immediately installed a new, replacement cord with the proper ground prong present.

Thanks to everyone who offered insight and information.

#5413 57 days ago

Hey all! Looking for some advice…
Does this poor little sound board have any chance of surviving, if I can get a chip and if I can do a decent job removing that river of solder? Seems like the board is pretty burned up around the chip. I’m willing to put in the time to try, just wondering if it’s worth the trouble or if I should just start hunting for a decent used board?

7439FEE9-370A-4F6B-919D-9AE987BE7EED (resized).jpegF77B92BA-96DA-4719-8FF8-604FA4046E01 (resized).jpeg
#5414 56 days ago

I would try to replace the chip, but use a socket. It looks like you may need to stitch a few of the connections.

#5415 56 days ago
Quoted from Billc479:

I would try to replace the chip, but use a socket. It looks like you may need to stitch a few of the connections.

Actually I wouldn't use a socket for this particular chip. I normally install sockets but on these amplifier chips several of the pins are used as a heat sink and that is better when directly soldered.

I'd remove the old chip, clean off all the old solder, wash that section of the board, then solder in a replacement chip. Also would check over the rest of the board for any issues that may have caused the original chip to fail.

#5416 56 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Actually I wouldn't use a socket for this particular chip. I normally install sockets but on these amplifier chips several of the pins are used as a heat sink and that is better when directly soldered.

Correct which is why there is a big blob of solder there, its a heat sink.

To me looks like it would clean right up.

#5418 56 days ago

The amplifier chip needs to be soldered. The three centre pins each side of the chip provide direct thermal conductivity away from the internal silicon die to the PCB. Those stick on heatsinks are not a match for performance.

#5419 56 days ago
Quoted from pabrimmer:

Does anyone have a system 80 3-bank drop target assembly they would sell? I have a 4-bank assembly already, and I would like a 3-bank of similar design. It's for a homebrew project, and I'll be making new targets to go in both assemblies, so I would like them both to be able to use the same targets to keep things simpler. My best guess is that my 4-bank came from Star Race. Let me know, thanks in advance![quoted image][quoted image]

So I'm updating my question!

I noticed that on ebay there are always a few gottlieb 4-bank assemblies for sale, but I've never seen a smaller 3-bank mech for sale there. I have seen one 4-bank that was set up to work as a 3-bank.

Today, I looked back up the games I mentioned previously, looking for under the playfield pics to hopefully get a look at the drop target mechs. Only Star Race had an under the pf shot, but as far as I can tell, both the 3-bank mech and the 4-bank look the same from underneath. The only difference is one has 3 targets in it and the other one has 4.

So, my guess is that Gottlieb didn't actually make 3-bank mech, they just used the same assembly for both 3's and 4's. Can anyone confirm if that's true?

#5420 56 days ago
Quoted from pabrimmer:

So I'm updating my question!
I noticed that on ebay there are always a few gottlieb 4-bank assemblies for sale, but I've never seen a smaller 3-bank mech for sale there. I have seen one 4-bank that was set up to work as a 3-bank.
Today, I looked back up the games I mentioned previously, looking for under the playfield pics to hopefully get a look at the drop target mechs. Only Star Race had an under the pf shot, but as far as I can tell, both the 3-bank mech and the 4-bank look the same from underneath. The only difference is one has 3 targets in it and the other one has 4.
So, my guess is that Gottlieb didn't actually make 3-bank mech, they just used the same assembly for both 3's and 4's. Can anyone confirm if that's true?

They did make some 3 bank mechs, I have at least one, but yes often used 4 bank with only 3 targets in it, works fine. most mine I got off ebay. I noticed your first pic had the little coils for knocking down the drops as well, those are harder to come by, but i did see another 4 bank with those on ebay just now, if you want that ability I would snag it ebay.com link: itm

#5421 55 days ago

Hey all, cross posting this issue!

Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

My game locked on and I didn’t realize it for about an hour, now when you play it randomly shows stars in the displays and you can barely play a game. I think it’s automatically slam tilting?

Right now it’s been sitting in attract mode for over an hour without issue, still unable to play a game though.

The upper lane-change also barely works. If you spam the flippers very rapidly it may advance once.
Not sure what the reason is or where to check

#5422 54 days ago

Anyone looking for a Pinball Pool pin? I will be listing it soon in the marketplace but thought I would see if anyone in this thread was interested first.
PM if interested. It's in SC.

PBP (resized).jpg

PBP# (resized).jpg
#5423 54 days ago
Quoted from gjm:

Anyone looking for a Pinball Pool pin? I will be listing it soon in the marketplace but thought I would see if anyone in this thread was interested first.
PM if interested. It's in SC.
[quoted image][quoted image]

I would be interested if I weren't so far away from you (in the Vegas area).

#5424 53 days ago

Suggestions for putting a sys80b on location? It locks up every 2-3 hours.
Are the reset boards easy to rebuild? If so does someone have a parts list? It seems like it would be sensible to just use those as the existing solution to that issue.

#5425 53 days ago
Quoted from Snowtrooper:

Check the power supply. Ensure you have 5 volts DC outputting, as it supplies the displays and the MPU. The pins on the power supply are notorious for cold solder joints (cracks in the soldered connection). This is an easy fix, as you simply reflow solder to all the pin connections on the backside of the printed circuit board (PCB).
And if you do not have the manual with schematics, you will need to pick one up. Steve Young at Pinball Resource can sell you one.

Finally getting a chance to dig into this some more.
Took voltages at the J2 connector. Everything was 5-5.7ish volts. But noticed a few things

- got a lot of static when messing with the potentiometer
-with j2 unplugged. All GI lights come on. With J2 plugged in all coils fire and inserts are on, but no GI.
-below is a pic of the back of the power supply board. One pin, lower left, defiantly had some shiner looking solder on it.

Any suggestions on what to try from here? Might see if I have a connector laying around that could work to rebuild and try that.

35AAF9FB-C517-4A95-A423-DABA40D56C5D (resized).jpeg
#5426 53 days ago

The pin on the lower left is not making reliable contact - it needs reflowed. And since you're there, you may as well reflow the other pins, too.

#5427 53 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Suggestions for putting a sys80b on location? It locks up every 2-3 hours.
Are the reset boards easy to rebuild? If so does someone have a parts list? It seems like it would be sensible to just use those as the existing solution to that issue.

Make sure ground mods are done. Usually that reset board is unplugged and a resistor added to the back of the MPU on the 40pin socket. Mod is mentioned in the system 80 section of pinwiki.com

#5428 53 days ago
Quoted from La4s:

Do they short together in the design because these smaller pins need to be closer to the board to have enough pressure to make solid contact?

I am creating some samples were the pins are spaced farther apart so they won't touch when not connected to the board, but the force on the contact will be reduced. I will test it out and see what happens.

#5429 52 days ago
Quoted from RDBowers:

I am creating some samples were the pins are spaced farther apart so they won't touch when not connected to the board, but the force on the contact will be reduced. I will test it out and see what happens.

I will preface by saying that I am not an electrical engineer and all this may be mute.

There are 2 5 volt and 2 ground pins that are back to back on the connector (and does not matter if they touch, as you mentioned in an earlier post).

The rest of the pins are for signal connections, which should be low voltage. Since they are a low voltage signals, you could use the smaller .100 pin 08-52-0123. These are 4amp with 22 gauge wire. Using the smaller pins would allow for a closer fit in the connector without touching, and they can even be offset easier than the .156 pin sizes. See my picture for an example.

System80Connection (resized).jpg
#5430 52 days ago
Quoted from La4s:

I will preface by saying that I am not an electrical engineer and all this may be mute.
There are 2 5 volt and 2 ground pins that are back to back on the connector (and does not matter if they touch, as you mentioned in an earlier post).
The rest of the pins are for signal connections, which should be low voltage. Since they are a low voltage signals, you could use the smaller .100 pin 08-52-0123. These are 4amp with 22 gauge wire. Using the smaller pins would allow for a closer fit in the connector without touching, and they can even be offset easier than the .156 pin sizes. See my picture for an example.[quoted image]

Already in the works.

#5431 51 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Make sure ground mods are done. Usually that reset board is unplugged and a resistor added to the back of the MPU on the 40pin socket. Mod is mentioned in the system 80 section of pinwiki.com

The ground mods were done exceptionally well before I got this machine.
There is no resistor on the back and I couldn’t find it on pinwiki. Edit: Resistor is on TC1

Would a resistor really be all it needs to permanently fix any lockup issues on location?

#5432 51 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

The ground mods were done exceptionally well before I got this machine.
There is no resistor on the back and I couldn’t find it on pinwiki.
Would a resistor really be all it needs to permanently fix any lockup issues on location?

If they are caused by the reset board then it can. Or if the reset board was removed without adding that resistor that can cause problems too,

#5433 51 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

The ground mods were done exceptionally well before I got this machine.
There is no resistor on the back and I couldn’t find it on pinwiki.
Would a resistor really be all it needs to permanently fix any lockup issues on location?

The resistor on the back of the board is explained here:

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_80#Reset_Board

#5434 51 days ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

If they are caused by the reset board then it can. Or if the reset board was removed without adding that resistor that can cause problems too,

Quoted from La4s:

The resistor on the back of the board is explained here:
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Gottlieb_System_80#Reset_Board

Okay so the resistor is NOT on the back of the board, it’s right on that connector, TC1.
Yes, that was added before I got the machine, as well.

All of that has been done, the machine still locks up after an hour or so unattended

#5435 51 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

machine still locks up after an hour or so unattended

Sounds like a heat issue. First, make sure your power supply is rock solid. No cracked solder on the PS pins? Nice & shiny pins and connectors at the PS and then onto the MPU at A1? All caps on PS & cap in the bottom of the cab been replaced? Make sure you have solid 5V even when it’s been on for a while.

I had similar problems with my Touchdown. Random lockups and resets after on for a while. Are your U2&U3 getting hot to the touch?
If I remember correctly, I had connection issues there on the MPU. Tarnex chip legs and new sockets for U2&U3.

#5436 51 days ago

Anyone have a Sinbad, Pinball Pool or Countdown within 5 hours of Vegas that they are looking to sell? If so, let me know. Thanks.

#5437 51 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Okay so the resistor is NOT on the back of the board, it’s right on that connector, TC1.
Yes, that was added before I got the machine, as well.
All of that has been done, the machine still locks up after an hour or so unattended

Replace the caps on the watchdog board, been there done that. When they get old and decay it changes the timing.

#5438 50 days ago

folks, is there a guide to convert a system 1 (in this case Cleopatra) to 220v?

Neil.

#5439 50 days ago

Feeling a little slow here today. Is there a simple way to test that I am getting the ~12V to my power supply board?

I am now getting 0V at the J2 connector, and if I can know that I am getting power to the board, that really narrows down the issues.

Thanks,
Chad

#5440 48 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

folks, is there a guide to convert a system 1 (in this case Cleopatra) to 220v?
Neil.

Does this schematic help?

Gottlieb_transformer (resized).png
#5441 48 days ago
Quoted from pabrimmer:

Does anyone have a system 80 3-bank drop target assembly they would sell?

Update on my search for drop target assemblies:

Huge shout-out to gjm for sending me a couple mechs from his stash of spare parts! I am well-supplied and on my way

#5442 48 days ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

Does this schematic help?[quoted image]

If your game has the 115V only transformers as shown in this schematic, you will need a separate step down transformer rated adequately to handle the game's load. If it has the transformers with the dual primaries, rewire the primaries in series as shown for 230V. Don't try to series connect 115v small and large transformers. as that won't work, since their loads are unequal.

#5443 45 days ago

Currently restoring a 1981 Gottlieb Force II System 80 pinball machine. Calling out to any Force II owners, and requesting a couple high resolution pictures of the following red boxes areas (with text / script) on the upper left side of the playfield, next to the left side roll over lanes:

4092EDDB-91A5-4AE0-A6C5-66D3A7B3D0C1 (resized).jpeg

Looking to take those good images and manufacture slide water decals to cover the damaged areas. Thank you all for your time and consideration.

#5444 44 days ago

Made a trade with a friend of mine. Got this Gottlieb Jacks to Open with the cabinet repainted. Looks really nice.

20220704_154700 (resized).jpg
#5445 39 days ago

I was working on Totem because a number of posts had loosened up and I realized at some point someone had replaced most of the 1" posts with 1-3/16" posts. The manual clearly states there are only supposed to be 2 tall post. However the manual doesn't say where they go. Any ideas?

PXL_20220709_161052163 (resized).jpgPXL_20220709_161145216 (resized).jpg
#5446 39 days ago

I believe they go to:
The upper right plastic near the ball gate & shooter lane arch.
The reason why I say that is because it looks to be the only plastic being held down by two posts. My Joker Poker has the same thing with two posts being taller than the rest. Seems to me that all of the other plastics are held down or resting on 3 or more posts.

#5447 39 days ago

That does make sense.

I was also thinking they could be used on either side of the wiireform ball gate. If I use the tall posts there the ball gate wire is 3/4" above the playfield. If I use the 1" post the wire drops to 9/16". Which is dead center on the ball. Maybe that is the intent.

I did some more digging in the System 1 manuals. The number of tall posts mostly correlates to the number of wiireform ball gates.

Cleopatra - 4 tall post - 2 wiireform ball gates
Sinbad - 0 tall posts - 0 wiireform ball gates
Joker Poker - 1 tall post - 0 wiireform ball gates
#CloseEncounters- 2 tall posts - 0 wiireform ball gates
Dragon - 0 tall posts- 0 wiireform ball gates
#Charlie's Angels - 4 tall posts - 0 wiireform ball gates - supports the two metal sheilds
#Solar Ride - 2 tall posts - 1 witeform ball gate
Count-Down - 4 tall posts - 0 wiireform ball gates
Pinball Pool - 0 tall posts - 0 wiireform ball gates
Totem - 2 tall posts - 1 witeform ball gate
Genie- 3 tall posts - 1 witeform ball gate - third post supports the front of the lane guide
#The Incredible Hulk - doesn't list posts
#Buck Rogers - 2 tall posts - 0 wiireform ball gates
#Roller Disco - 6 tall posts - 2 wiireform ball gates
Torch - 2 tall posts - 1 witeform ball gate
#Asteroid Annie and the Aliens - 0 tall post - 1 witeform ball gate

Totem
16573962024828695691612302439247 (resized).jpg

Cleopatra
16573964002478604677539167858334 (resized).jpg

Torch
16573964380037829205690229589380 (resized).jpg

Genie
16573970727504828065400643119276 (resized).jpg

#Solar Ride - this gate actually has 1" posts, but I have had some issues with it getting stuck.
16573965869686483141208299960535 (resized).jpg

#5448 39 days ago
Quoted from RDBowers:

That does make sense.
I was also thinking they could be used on either side of the wiireform ball gate. If I use the tall posts there the ball gate wire is 3/4" above the playfield. If I use the 1" post the wire drops to 9/16". Which is dead center on the ball. Maybe that is the intent.
I did some more digging in the System 1 manuals. The number of tall posts mostly correlates to the number of wiireform ball gates.
Cleopatra - 4 tall post - 2 wiireform ball gates
Sinbad - 0 tall posts - 0 wiireform ball gates
Joker Poker - 1 tall post - 0 wiireform ball gates
Close Encounters of the Third Kind - 2 tall posts - 0 wiireform ball gates
Dragon - 0 tall posts- 0 wiireform ball gates
Charlie's Angels - 4 tall posts - 0 wiireform ball gates
Solar Ride - 2 tall posts - 1 witeform ball gate
Count-Down - 4 tall posts - 0 wiireform ball gates
Pinball Pool - 0 tall posts - 0 wiireform ball gates
Totem - 2 tall posts - 1 witeform ball gate
Genie- 3 tall posts - 1 witeform ball gate
The Incredible Hulk - doesn't list posts
Buck Rogers - 2 tall posts - 0 wiireform ball gates
Roller Disco - 6 tall posts - 2 wiireform ball gates
Torch - 2 tall posts - 1 witeform ball gate
Asteroid Annie and the Aliens - 0 tall post - 1 witeform ball gate
[quoted image]

The 2 on Buck Rogers are under the lane guide near the right side. If they were not tall I think the switch behind the rubber would hit the lane guide. i don't see a similar place on Totem however that would need that by looking at the pic.

Nice Totem btw.

PXL_20220709_200601257 (resized).jpg
#5449 39 days ago

My Hollywood heat saga continues…

Good news. I believe it’s definitely a power issue.
Bad news. I currently have a dead game.

I wasn’t getting 5v from the power supply, decided to reseat 2 connectors for power in the cabinet, and checked the 2 main fuses. Now absolutely nothing happens when I flick the switch. Going to check fuses and connectors again. Everything seems tight / not blown, I’ll see what I find.

Anyone have any other thoughts? I feel like I’m getting this thing further from working rather than closer. Thanks

#5450 39 days ago
Quoted from BorgDog:

The 2 on Buck Rogers are under the lane guide near the right side. If they were not tall I think the switch behind the rubber would hit the lane guide. i don't see a similar place on Totem however that would need that by looking at the pic.
Nice Totem btw.
[quoted image]

This accounts for all of the ones that didn't add up. Joker Poker, #Close Encounters, Count-Down, #Buck Rogers, #Roller Disco.
So, tall posts are used for
1) single sided lane guides when the band extends to both posts
2) support metal sheilds, and
3) on either sides of the wiireform ball gates.

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