What happened to:

"The Spike system is very robust and has passed rigorous laboratory testing that subjected it to shock, vibration, extremes in temperature, electrical shocks and radiation events way beyond what it sees in real world use."

I feel like you shouldn't have to zip tie parts together on games less than 6 months old...Am I wrong?

-Doug

Thanks for the heads up. Had not seen this.

I think Stern is realizing it is getting expensive replacing proprietary node boards that fail because they did not have fuses. I think capacitors will help but they just control the voltage, they still need to implement a fuse system for Spike. Capacitors will minimize high voltage from damaging board, but still not a solution to the problem.

how do capacitors help?

Help regulate and control voltage and current direction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/any-serious-problems-with-spike-yet/page/5#post-4091240

Seems like some of the fears are being realized.

I wonder if this effects GoT also? It has a node 8+9 under the playfield too.

What a joke. Problem after problem and yet people keep buying...

So, vibration causes these expensive boards to fall apart?

"Problem:
The leads of the D9 diode have physically broken due to the extensive amount of vibration that occurs on the playfield. The D9 diode had 2 thin leads compared to the 3 thicker leads that are on transistors located on the node board.
Solution:
Install the spacer and cable tie kit to improve the mechanical stability of the D9 diode (Ask for SPI part number 502-7061-00)"

No, not at all, just a preventative maintenance upgrade. Excellent example of Stern supporting their customers.

A zip tie and spacer is an excellent example of Stern supporting their customers and is a preventative maintenance upgrade? Ok I guess my expectations are just much higher for a $5,000 ++ toy with a well documented problem.

Just because a few diodes broke doesn't mean they all will. I'm sure Stern will will give you a new diode if you would prefer installing that. I'm also sure Stern is now installing an upgraded diode moving forward to prevent the possibility of having this happen again. Stern simply addressed a problem as they should. It is your choice not to install the zip tie if you so choose. Considering the amount of time most collectors spend cleaning, waxing, and upgrading their machines I can't see that taking two minutes to secure a diode is a hardship or the need to bash Stern for acknowledging an issue and taking steps to prevent further issues. Thanks to the OP for sharing this update.

The capacitor used in the service bulletin has absolutely nothing to do with issues due to lack of fusing.

When someone gets kit 502-7060-00 can you please post the info on the cap they used.

Edit: It is a 220uF 80v cap. My SW on location has them.

If only a "few" diodes broke I doubt there would be a service bulletin about it.

I have no idea how many broke but we know that not all of them did. We also know that if they don't break within a short period of time after taking a new game out of the box they probably won't. I would also rather install a diode support in about 30 seconds rather than wait several days for a warranty replacement and have a machine out of operation for that time. Preventative maintenance = peace of mind.

I read the pdf the opposite. Sounds like they are all prone to failure and it is more a matter of time/vibration.

if you dont have any zip ties, duct tape will suffice. =D

If a two pin diode in a to220 package is busting its solder after a year I don't have much faith for the electrolytic caps or any other large items.

Why do all these service kits look so ghetto? I can't help but be reminded of the Stern clear coat touch up kit.

I installed the cap kit on my GOT Pro when I was having some phantom switch hits. As it turned out, that issue wasn't the root cause, but I left it in there anyway.

I wonder if they will be sending these kits out to all owners through distros or only on a case-by-case basis. I’m assuming the latter, but this kind of fix should go out to everyone affected.

I noticed that the cap kits are installed on GOTG, so it looks like that change is in current production.

Anyone installing a shaker in these games may want to think twice about it.

Except as an early Batman owner I got no notice of this. Supporting customers should also include notifying those costomers

We got the good ole cable tie replacement board for Star Wars last week. While I'm glad the pin is up running again, with all the issues, lack of code on releases, we're done getting any Stern NIB purchases besides maybe MET. Only proved pins via 3rd party from here on out. JJP, CGC will be getting our business for the foreseeable future.

Stern just can't do right I guess. They should just shut the whole thing down. You can chose to be a negative thinker or a positive thinker or to go with public opinion. I say speak from personal experience. All extremes can have bad effect, there is a balance. It seems anything stern puts out, the negatives are always sought out, even if it's the obvious and Stern can't catch a break.
Any code that begins with 0.XX, would indicate incomplete code, don't complain, you knew this when you bought it.
Any "new" system or "upgrade" is going to have its bugs and fixes/improvements, you should have known this when you bought it. Stop complaining.

Complaint without solution is bitching. If you don't have a solution then you might just be a....

For anybody to say they are buying company X pinball instead of Stern is to imply that company X doesn't have issues. I can tell you first hand, that company X does have issues, even some of the same issues as Stern. As long as the issues get resolved, what's the problem?

I think service bulletins are excellent and show ongoing progress to fix and improve things. That is good customer support.

It does :/

Unfortunately for an issue like this Stern can not win. I agree their service bulletins should help prevent future occurrences, but the fact that this is needed in the first place shows something lacking during development and testing. Almost any problem with modern Stern games can be attributed to cost cutting or rushing.

Thankfully all of the WPC games are perfect with no board issues ever!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

This is great that Stern is sending out bulletins on how to make their games more robust and less prone to failure. Service bulletins have been a fact of life for pinballs since the early days, and for that matter part of pretty much every commercial product and even our cars.

Now I would really like to be on an owners list and just have these sent to me automatically, but I'll request them and install them. Easier than putting most cliffys on...

There's no implying that there are no issues with other companies. The implication is there are other companies besides Stern to buy a pinball machine from.

Most all manufacturers have service bulletins. It simply is a "service" notice. A recall is likely what you are confusing the term with. A code update is essentially nothing more than a service bulletin. Service bulletins are good.

Seriously?

Again, another negative implication and an obvious statement for a pinball forum. You also left out the fact that you said:

"with all the issues, lack of code on releases, we're done getting any Stern NIB purchases besides maybe MET"

Meaning your implication was more than just informing pinball people of other manufacturers.

No, not seriously. I'm just not smart enough to add emojis or signs implying sarcasm.

It's not clear if the Node Stabilization Kit includes parts for one or both Boards. Anyone know?

Not really sure why there just isn't one kit that combines all the parts. You would figure if you need the cap kit that you need the spacer kit(s) too.

Can we stop mounting boards upside down on the playfield yet? It's never been a good idea

Yes, and you also left out.......

"While I'm glad the pin is up running again.......Only proved pins via 3rd party from here on out."

I own only Stern pins at the moment. I like the themes Stern puts out. I enjoy playing a lot of their pins. I don't really see how it's negative to essentially say I want to spend thousands of dollars on only pins that are proven to have a solid code that I will find enjoyable?

I'm not implying anything. I made a clear statement. I'm literally stating why I won't be buying NIB pins and you quoted it word for word. So what exactly is the issue here?

It was tongue in cheek. They found an issue, they are correcting it. Stern cannot win on this forums and it’s depressing.

Right. It's just stupid to mount boards under the playfield in a high vibration area. That's why boards used to be in the heads. Williams knew this. Stern used to know it (well.. maybe they did). Lets save some money on wiring though, and mount the boards on the bottom of the playfield. The only good side effect of that might be not having to listen to Gary Stern mention that a new Stern has more wiring in it than a new car at every presentation he gives.

Bulletin 189: Diode can be bend. It will then connect to ground of the MOSFET and probably be damaged. Adding isolation fixes it.
Bulletin 190: Voltage spikes on the 48V lines (probably due to coils firing) will brown out/reset the CPU causing a reboot of the CPU and thus missed switch events during the game. Adding a capacitor fixes it.

Both totally make sense. Most companies would not bother to fix those at all. Solutions are both super easy so great, isn't it?

If it was not issue after issue with Stern I think they would get a pass, but too many issues. I own 2 Older Sterns - RBION and Avatar LE. I would not even consider a newer game until they get their act together. Remember back in the day when there was so much negativity regarding the quality of build for Avatar - sure wish they would go back to that!

is this a TRON topic !?

sorry...

That'd be great, but, even just mounting them with the components facing up would help. Gravity isn't helping things here. Make some rubber spacers to reduce vibration, and flip the boards and I bet a lot of problems would disappear. Same problem with MMRs, even the connectors sometimes vibrate off because they're having upside down from the boards

So, if you are gonna put stuff in a stupid location, at least use common sense when doing it. I could get behind that.

This is somewhat on topic. I do home service. For now im not doing any work on the newer spike systems regardless of issue even a flipper adjustment. Not sure if other service people feel the same.
If I fix a small issue and a week later a node board fails the customer is going to expect me to fix it. Heck it may cost 500 or more to fix if its several nodes that are bad due to a flawed design.
I just had a client want me to help him update his game. He tried himself and a node failed in the process. Its just not worth the aggravation.
Until things straighten out I will stick with what im comfortable with. I know other techs that are considering this also.

Buy my Star Trek

Yup I heard about your thoughts on this among friends this last weekend. I see your point John.

So what would your expectation be? That Stern ships out hundreds (thousands?) of node boards, pays for all the shipping back and forth, just in case someone may have an issue at some point in the future? Makes no business/monetary sense.

As far as I know, Stern is already replacing boards for free that have failed because of these issues, now they seem to have discovered why there have been failures and have a simple preventative fix that requires someone to lift their playfield and spend 5-10 minutes (less time than people probably spend installing the average mod) and people still bitch.

Sounds like they discovered issues in the field that they didn't find in their testing. Shit happens. As anyone who has any experience in producing hardware or software for mass consumption knows, shit happens all the time.