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(Topic ID: 203690)

Holy node board Batman, GB, Aerosmith, Star Wars - Service Bulletins


By NeilMcRae

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 262 posts
  • 109 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by fosaisu
  • Topic is favorited by 54 Pinsiders
  • Topic is sticky in its sub-forum

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There are 262 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 6.
#151 2 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

It might not be the same diode on both boards. No reason for the numbers to match up

True, but it is labeled the same (D9) and is in the exact same location, just surface mount.

Gee, sure would be nice if Stern released schematics. Then we could easily know for sure.

#152 2 years ago

I would seriously recommend people installing this anti vibration fix. A couple of days ago, node 8 on our SWLE died. One of the legs on the TO220 D9 diode had experienced som much vibration that it had broken broke off. I guess this resulted in a serious voltage spike on the input of the MP24943 regulator next to it, since the area around the VIN pin on this more or less exploded.

We are getting a new node board from Stern, but it is tempting to attempt to repair the node board by replacing the regulator ($3 on DigiKey). I guess this only makes sense if the regulator didn't let any voltage through to the output (if so, it may have fried other PCBs connected to the low voltage side of the node). Most of the components on the node board are run of the mill components, but the cortex M3 is a concern if it is damaged. Does anyone know if the firmware on this is loaded as a part of a normal software update and if it can be replaced with an unprogrammed LPC1313 ? Have anyone had any success fixing these boards ?

stern_regulator (resized).jpg

#153 2 years ago

I assume there's at least some Stern bootloader on the CPU that would need to be replicated before the node can be programmed by the main CPU board as I'm not aware of any CPUs that can be programmed via ethernet, but only one way to find out for sure!

#154 2 years ago

Hmm. Seems like the LPC1313 is shipped from the factory with a bootloader installed on the chip. If this is the case, it wouldn't make much sense for Stern to make their own. From the data sheet under "Features and benefits": "In-System Programming (ISP) and In-Application Programming (IAP) via on-chip bootloader software". The QFN-package has exposed copper pads along the sides, so it doesn't look too intimidating. Maybe there is hope ?

lpc (resized).jpg

#155 2 years ago
Quoted from hansj66:

Hmm. Seems like the LPC1313 is shipped from the factory with a bootloader installed on the chip. If this is the case, it wouldn't make much sense for Stern to make their own. From the data sheet under "Features and benefits": "In-System Programming (ISP) and In-Application Programming (IAP) via on-chip bootloader software". The QFN-package has exposed copper pads along the sides, so it doesn't look too intimidating. Maybe there is hope ?

It ships with a bootloader, but whether stern's boards use the stock manufacturer bootloader or not is the problem

#156 2 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

I assume there's at least some Stern bootloader on the CPU that would need to be replicated before the node can be programmed by the main CPU board as I'm not aware of any CPUs that can be programmed via ethernet, but only one way to find out for sure!

it's not ethernet but it does use the same cables

#157 2 years ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

it's not ethernet but it does use the same cables

Even less likely

3 weeks later
#158 2 years ago

How are people going about installing the spacer?

Are you doing it with the board still in place or are you removing the board?

#159 2 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

How are people going about installing the spacer?
Are you doing it with the board still in place or are you removing the board?

I tried the fixed. It is not the easiest thing to do even with the board off. The zip tie IMHO is to firm. It is hard to pull through and trying to keep the spacer in place is also difficult. Maybe others have had better luck. I ended up breaking one of the legs on D9 in the process.

#160 2 years ago

I wonder if Stern will redesign this board to withstand the vibration o is the spacer the permanent fix going forward.

#161 2 years ago

I'm still waiting for my "kit" I talked to stern tech support on Dec 6th. They were going to send it out, I don't think I'm getting it. If I could figure out what to use as a spacer, I'll use my own zip ties. So far I haven't had any problems with my machine. I would hate to have it break over a 10 cent fix.

#162 2 years ago
Quoted from SamIam:

I'm still waiting for my "kit" I talked to stern tech support on Dec 6th. They were going to send it out, I don't think I'm getting it. If I could figure out what to use as a spacer, I'll use my own zip ties. So far I haven't had any problems with my machine. I would hate to have it break over a 10 cent fix.

Just use some hot glue. Much easier, safer and the end result is the same.

#163 2 years ago

Just got my kit last night .... will install this weekend

#164 2 years ago
Quoted from SamIam:

If I could figure out what to use as a spacer, I'll use my own zip ties.

I bought some 3/8" diameter 1/4" spacers and did it myself. Figured it was easier to do that than bother Stern and cost around $1.

https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=357
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/254-5000-02

#165 2 years ago
Quoted from hansj66:

I would seriously recommend people installing this anti vibration fix. A couple of days ago, node 8 on our SWLE died. One of the legs on the TO220 D9 diode had experienced som much vibration that it had broken broke off. I guess this resulted in a serious voltage spike on the input of the MP24943 regulator next to it, since the area around the VIN pin on this more or less exploded.
We are getting a new node board from Stern, but it is tempting to attempt to repair the node board by replacing the regulator ($3 on DigiKey). I guess this only makes sense if the regulator didn't let any voltage through to the output (if so, it may have fried other PCBs connected to the low voltage side of the node). Most of the components on the node board are run of the mill components, but the cortex M3 is a concern if it is damaged. Does anyone know if the firmware on this is loaded as a part of a normal software update and if it can be replaced with an unprogrammed LPC1313 ? Have anyone had any success fixing these boards ?

Are Stern actually applying this 'fix' from the factory?

From what I read it doesn't seem like it.

#166 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Are Stern actually applying this 'fix' from the factory?
From what I read it doesn't seem like it.

Yes. Go to around 14:40...It was on my machine.

#167 2 years ago

I talked to Cointaker and they also confirmed GoT does not need this fix.

#168 2 years ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

Just use some hot glue. Much easier, safer and the end result is the same.

That does seem like simpler and better solution in some ways. Downside?

Why wouldn't Stern just put some goop on it? Perhaps, don't want to allow for cure time although you'd think they might suggest it as the solution vs. sending out kits for a fix that is difficult to complete.

#169 2 years ago

Found this....

When used with care, the hot glue used by hobbyists and craftspeople is safe for electronic projects. The glue, a plastic resin which typically melts at temperatures ranging from 250 to 380 degrees Fahrenheit, is an electrical insulator, so it does not create stray conducting paths or short circuits. For best results, avoid using hot glue on thermally sensitive components or power devices that produce heat.

Passive Components
Hot glue is OK when used on rugged passive components such as resistors, coils and ceramic capacitors. Electrolytic capacitors, however, usually have a thin plastic wrapper that hot glue may melt and damage, so avoid applying the glue to these components. Metal mounting parts such as screws and brackets are usually safe for hot glue, although plastic parts may deform or melt from the glue's heat. Nonconducting parts of circuit boards consist of an epoxy resin; hot glue is safe with this material.

Power Components
Power components, including large transistors, integrated circuits and diodes, have metal bodies designed to give off heat during operation. Although hot glue won't harm these components directly, it is inappropriate for these parts. When a transistor becomes hot, it will soften or melt any glue applied to it, causing the glue to weaken and break. Also, the glue is a thermal insulator; if a glue-covered transistor cannot radiate heat away from itself, it may overheat and fail.

#170 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Are Stern actually applying this 'fix' from the factory?
From what I read it doesn't seem like it.

Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Yes. Go to around 14:40...It was on my machine.

My SW Prem had the two TO-220 devices zip tied together on the node boards, but without the spacer. Seemed sturdy to the touch, so I've left them alone.

#171 2 years ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

My SW Prem had the two TO-220 devices zip tied together on the node boards, but without the spacer.

Surely the zip ties are there to hold the spacer in place (the thing that prevents the damage)??

#172 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Surely the zip ties are there to hold the spacer in place (the thing that prevents the damage)??

Lack of movement prevents the vibration damage, based upon what I've seen in this thread. My guess is the spacer helps prevent someone from bending the diode over to far & breaking a leg while tightening the zip tie. Like I said, there was no movement even without the spacer as it came this way from the factory, so it should be good....and if not I know who to call!

#173 2 years ago

Received and installed kit on my GB last night, did it without removing the boards. Was kind of a pain in the ass and it felt dicey doing it because the diodes were flexing/moving around in the process. Only received one of the capacitors also when the service bulletin shows two, installed it on node board #8.

#174 2 years ago

Yes, exactly - I received also only one capacitor set, even though I guess one for each node board would have needed.

#175 2 years ago

In an industrial setting, it's very common to use a clear or translucent RTV silicone for this type of application, there's numerous epoxies that also are common to use like this too. I work in a good sized circuit board manufacturer, we buy and apply both RTV and epoxy by the bucket.

#176 2 years ago

Mine is coming tomorrow from JJ via Stern so I’ll assume only one kit also. Has anyone contacted their distributor for GB to get another one?

#177 2 years ago
Quoted from tbanthony:

Found this....
When used with care, the hot glue used by hobbyists and craftspeople is safe for electronic projects. The glue, a plastic resin which typically melts at temperatures ranging from 250 to 380 degrees Fahrenheit, is an electrical insulator, so it does not create stray conducting paths or short circuits. For best results, avoid using hot glue on thermally sensitive components or power devices that produce heat.
Passive Components
Hot glue is OK when used on rugged passive components such as resistors, coils and ceramic capacitors. Electrolytic capacitors, however, usually have a thin plastic wrapper that hot glue may melt and damage, so avoid applying the glue to these components. Metal mounting parts such as screws and brackets are usually safe for hot glue, although plastic parts may deform or melt from the glue's heat. Nonconducting parts of circuit boards consist of an epoxy resin; hot glue is safe with this material.
Power Components
Power components, including large transistors, integrated circuits and diodes, have metal bodies designed to give off heat during operation. Although hot glue won't harm these components directly, it is inappropriate for these parts. When a transistor becomes hot, it will soften or melt any glue applied to it, causing the glue to weaken and break. Also, the glue is a thermal insulator; if a glue-covered transistor cannot radiate heat away from itself, it may overheat and fail.

You are only applying the glue to the metal parts on top. What you want is just bind them together so the diode does not viibrate anymore what causes metal fatigue in the legs of the diode because they are too thin. No risk doing the glue, more risk doing the Stern way. I tried and I stopped because you cannot do the tiewraps without bending the legs. Hot glue is much faster, more easy and also more safe for the components.

#178 2 years ago

Update, I did recieve my kit when I got home today. I did install them. Quite nerve racking as I needed to bend things around to make the spacer fit, then trying to tighten them up was a little stressful. Thought for sure I was going to break my machine while trying to fix it.

#179 2 years ago

Just got mine today. Got 4 spacer kits (only supposed to get 2) and only 1 cap kit (supposed to get 2).

Oh Stern, what are we gonna do with you!

batman-robin-laughter.gif

#180 2 years ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

Lack of movement prevents the vibration damage, based upon what I've seen in this thread. My guess is the spacer helps prevent someone from bending the diode over to far & breaking a leg while tightening the zip tie. Like I said, there was no movement even without the spacer as it came this way from the factory, so it should be good....and if not I know who to call!

If I were you I'd either add a spacer or glue / epoxy. Whilst less than without the tie, a tie alone under tension without a spacer will vibrate quite a bit more than with a spacer acting as a dampener - which it will, whether that was Stern's reason for specifying it or not.

#181 2 years ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

You are only applying the glue to the metal parts on top. What you want is just bind them together so the diode does not viibrate anymore what causes metal fatigue in the legs of the diode because they are too thin. No risk doing the glue, more risk doing the Stern way. I tried and I stopped because you cannot do the tiewraps without bending the legs. Hot glue is much faster, more easy and also more safe for the components.

Could you provide us with a pic of what you've done?

#182 2 years ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

Could you provide us with a pic of what you've done?

20171216_142828 (resized).jpg

#183 2 years ago

OK, I picked up my kits from my distributor. I needed them for three machines, I got three kits of each type. The spacer kit actually has three spacers and zip ties in it and I believe I only need two for a single machine (Nodes 8 and 9). However, the capacitor kit only contains one cap with plugs. I'm guessing you really need two of these since there are two node boards that need the capacitor on them. If anyone knows of a common power to those boards let me know. I was going to poke around tonight, but pretty sure I need 3 more capacitor kits.

If anyone is ordering kits, you might as well have them send you two cap kits for each machine.

#184 2 years ago

Mine arrived yesterday, proper amount of kits for two machines (one of which already had the caps kit). Will install them this weekend, probably take the boards out first just to make it less likely for me to screw it up...

#185 2 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

Mine arrived yesterday, proper amount of kits for two machines (one of which already had the caps kit). Will install them this weekend, probably take the boards out first just to make it less likely for me to screw it up...

*** I just did my AS Pro and highly recommend taking the boards out. ***

The D9 diode is fairly delicate and it's easy to mess up, especially given the location of the boards.

I'm surprised that Stern's instructions don't recommend removing the boards prior to performing this procedure. I'm certain they will be getting requests for new boards resulting from D9 being damaged.

snaroff

11
#186 2 years ago

Fk them kits..... too hard to install and it hard on the tips from moving them around with the zip tie. I am printing up a stability block and pins. Will go in between the tips and pins will go through the tip holes and secure.

B2F7FF26-E0F5-4D92-B82C-1768D6AB2B5F (resized).jpeg

#187 2 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

Fk them kits..... too hard to install and it hard on the tips from moving them around with the zip tie. I am printing up a stability block and pins. Will go in between the tips and pins will go through the tip holes and secure.

NIcely done, I am headed down the same road.

#188 2 years ago

Still a bitch but here is one installed

82BE7ED3-E25B-4E0A-AC34-B55C8D58A2C6 (resized).jpeg

#189 2 years ago

We really have reached such a cool moment with rapid prototyping where you can print your own parts at home to ensure games last. Very cool and well done hoby1

#190 2 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

Still a bitch but here is one installed

What about the cap kit ? Did STERN SEND you Cap kit ? you are half way done it appears. Good job . People like my self can not make this stuff .

#191 2 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

Still a bitch but here is one installed

Excellent idea. Nice work.

#192 2 years ago
Quoted from RobKnapp:

What about the cap kit ? Did STERN SEND you Cap kit ? you are half way done it appears. Good job . People like my self can not make this stuff .

They only sent me one.... Needs two for the game.

#193 2 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

They only sent me one.... Needs two for the game.

Me too, does everyone need one each for both Node 8 and 9 boards??

[

#194 2 years ago
Quoted from perryd:

Me too, does everyone need one each for both Node 8 and 9 boards??
[

Needs two as I called Chaz

#195 2 years ago

I used clear RTV on the transistors. Thanks for the advice. I didn’t like stressing the components to use a zip tie and spacer. Much easier as I didn’t have to pull the boards. Now all I have to do is get the capacitor kits

#196 2 years ago

My kits come tomorrow.

This thread has been dominated by talk of the spacer. What about the capacitor fix? Easy to install?

#197 2 years ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

My kits come tomorrow.
This thread has been dominated by talk of the spacer. What about the capacitor fix? Easy to install?

Plug and play

#198 2 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

Fk them kits..... too hard to install and it hard on the tips from moving them around with the zip tie. I am printing up a stability block and pins. Will go in between the tips and pins will go through the tip holes and secure.

I have a printer. Can you send me the files?

#199 2 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

I have a printer. Can you send me the files?

Any chance the files can be posted here?

#200 2 years ago

It wont let me post the file . email me at hoby1@rcn.com . When you print enlarge to 130%

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