(Topic ID: 7832)

Hologram for CFTBL


By Mads666Mikkelsen

7 years ago



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  • 41 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by o-din
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$(KGrHqQOKjgE6RdHWLSuBOu6rc211g~~60_3..jpg
Original_Under_White_Light.jpg
Pinball_Heaven_Repro.jpg

#1 7 years ago

Do anybody know if there is a repro of the hologram for CFTBL , or is there any used one for sale ?

The hologram on the CFTBL , i am looking to buy is all black

all the best
Mads Mikkelsen

#2 7 years ago
#4 7 years ago

Thank you Simonakapw.
Pinballheaven.co.uk do inded have a very nice repro of the hologram
And i think i have been all over the internet and there is no orginal hologram for sale......................... but i hope sombody will prove me wrong.

#5 7 years ago

There's no original holograms for sale other than perhaps a few in collector's hands. These original holograms have been popping up on E-bay lately, at a rate of a couple per year or so. Usually someone on RGP posts that one's up for auction, and we all watch to see how high it will go. I believe the last 2 or 3 holograms I've seen on E-bay sold somewhere in the high $600 to $900+ range. That's some serious coin for a hologram.

There seems to be a big demand for these holograms, and simply not enough out there for people who want to have a perfect CFTBL.

I don't know of a decent option to the Pinball Heaven hologram, unless someone can do something awesome with a small LCD panel placed below the playfield that would produce a cool image of the Creature when required.

Good luck on your search.

#6 7 years ago

The last couple one ebay in fact went for around $1400-$1500 from what I recall. The repros done by Gene I heard go red and fade within years.

There will be a time where holograms for this game will no longer happen.

#7 7 years ago

Yikes Atomicboy, I guess I haven't followed the latest auctions, that's crazy money.

#8 7 years ago

woow that is bad news well it was also the feeling i got while i was surfing cyperspace for a orginal hologram.
maby sombody that are in to pimping pinball should make a LCD panel below the playfield, it would buy it for sure.

#9 7 years ago

There is definitely a market for it, but it would have to be like pinball heaven where it is a close copy (projected by lcd) since universal is so strigent with the license. After the ipd fiasco I cannot see any of the usualy repo companies touching it. there is still some sore senitments about how the repos randomly go/went bad.

#10 7 years ago

People and copyrights.. If you're going to the trouble of making the LCD, steal it. Name it simply 'creature' don't call it CFTBL, have 2 images (or more) for the LCD, and have a code that only pinballers know to unlock the real image.

If you get caught, use the rockstar 'hot coffee' excuse. "We didn't know it was there! The person who made it was fired and can't be found".

Good luck Universal lawyers.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

The last couple one ebay in fact went for around $1400-$1500 from what I recall.

Actually, they've never broken $1000 (I've been following these closely for the last year and have kept a comp record).

The most recent was this one (I just won it on Ebay for $865):

ebay.com link

Here are the ones before that:

$860 - 4-3-11
$595 - 1-18-11 (opened; previously displayed on a wall)
$930 - 12-17-10
$670 - 10-10-10

While its great to finally have a perfect one, now that I took the plunge, I'd imagine $200-$300 reproductions are virtually guaranteed.

#12 7 years ago

Why isn't Planetary Pinball more aggressive when it comes to licensing stuff like this? Given the prices that collectors/restorers are willing to pay for hard to find items, it seems like they are sitting on a gold mine.

#13 7 years ago

The problem with the one from Pinball Heaven is it's essentially just a solid green blob in the general shape of the Creature (as seen in the attached pic). Note it has no face.

Personally, I'd rather have an original that's blue & clear and still has all the Creature's details.

Pinball_Heaven_Repro.jpg Original_Under_White_Light.jpg

#14 7 years ago

Since the creature is supposed tobe underwatered the blue makes more sense.

Quoted from gweempose:

Why isn't Planetary Pinball more aggressive when it comes to licensing stuff like this? Given the prices that collectors/restorers are willing to pay for hard to find items, it seems like they are sitting on a gold mine.

IPD redid them. It was a pain to get the license from universal. It was not cheap (couple hundred dollars per hologram). The originals were made in japan using a special undocumented process (just like the whitewater topper decal) so ipd made it differently. It was great until a few months after some of the decals started turning red and the image quickly disintegrated. The originals slowly turn blue over a period of years. The ipd version goes very quickly once it starts turning red. At this point the statue used for the images is gone as well as the ipd's files. IPD took a lot of heat for it and no one else will step up to it after that fiasco. Williams did use some very interesting process when making things, but it bites you in the butt when it cannot be duplicated.

#15 7 years ago

Here's what Martin Reynolds said a few years back about originals and the road blocks facing reproductions:

"Seems that these were manufactured by Polaroid, using a contact print process from a holographic master. The hologram is recorded in a transparent medium, which changes its refractive index after exposure and processing. Processing consist of a dip in Xylene, which causes the exposed emulsion to swell, and then a bath in hexane, which displace the Xylene but does not allow the swelling to subside. Now, the hologram supply is exhausted and they have gone from a $20 novelty to a $400 rarity. There have been efforts to remake them, but here are the barriers:

1) You need a license from Universal - The Pinball Factory states that it has paperwork prepared.
2) The master hologram has been lost (probably looked like a piece of dirty glass)
3) The original model is unavailable. It appears that The Pinball Factory has a green one, and there may be another in private hands.
4) No way to get an EXACT duplicate. Which means that the replacements won't be worth so much.?
5) Have to find someone to make the master and reproduce the holos.
6) After all these expenses, are there enough buyers to cover the costs."

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from NM:

6) After all these expenses, are there enough buyers to cover the costs.

I guess that's the unknown. I firmly believe that it would not have to be an exact replica of the original to be successful. As long as it looked REALLY nice, had a ton of detail, would not change over time, and was indeed holographic, I think most people would be happy with them. Still, the question remains ... how many people would actually buy one? I guess that all depends on how many people currently have CFTBL's with bad holograms, and how much the repros would cost.

#17 7 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

...Still, the question remains ... how many people would actually buy one? I guess that all depends on how many people currently have CFTBL's with bad holograms, and how much the repros would cost.

Color me in for a lifetime supply of a half dozen or so.

Given the shortage and Ebay comps on originals, I think they'd fly off the shelves.

#18 7 years ago

What would you all think the price reduction should be on a CFTBL with no hologram, (which would normally cost $3000,- with a orginal hologram) ?
And would you even buy a CFTBL if it had a broken/no hologram ?

#19 7 years ago

The hologram issue has put me off buying as I don't like the repro. Hope they re-make them one day.

#20 7 years ago
Quoted from Mads666Mikkelsen:

What would you all think the price reduction should be on a CFTBL with no hologram, (which would normally cost $3000,- with a original hologram) ?

The answer is quite murky:

A CFTBL with NO hologram isn't very attractive to buyers--unless it's cheap enough. We saw an earlier thread on this forum where someone got a great local deal off CL for one with no hologram for $1800.

I believe that was an exception.

Without seeing your machine, and assuming you're referring to an average CFTBL with a blue hologram, my guess is it would take somewhere around a $500 discount for someone to willingly pull the trigger on a CFTBL without a hologram--for the simple reason the hologram, while seldom seen in gameplay, is an important part of the game's lore.

$300 wouldn't do it for me: I'd want more off the price (and potential buyers would use this as a bargaining chip).

The enigma then becomes what's a blue hologram worth?

Some people suggest not very much; however, the above example illustrates their worth to be more than a little...especially if no reproductions are ever made again.

#21 7 years ago

Gene has the rights through Universal. He did the MB playfields, and told me at a show that paid Universal a lot of money for them. He also told me that there is a person who has the original model that wants an unreasonable amount for the model.

When I talked to Rick at Planetary Pinball at a show this year about it, he said they'll not make one. Too much cost.

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

Gene has the rights through Universal. He did the MB playfields, and told me at a show that paid Universal a lot of money for them. He also told me that there is a person who has the original model that wants an unreasonable amount for the model.

When I talked to Rick at Planetary Pinball at a show this year about it, he said they'll not make one. Too much cost.

Hmm...well if that's the case what value would you guys assign to a blue one that's still clear?

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from NM:

Hmm...well if that's the case what value would you guys assign to a blue one that's still clear?

From what I understand, the stages are green to blue to black. Don't know what chemical reaction that causes this, and don't know if it is true.

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

From what I understand, the stages are green to blue to black. Don't know what chemical reaction that causes this, and don't know if it is true.

I suppose therein lies the unknown: no telling how long a blue one will last--or for that matter, how long an NOS will last, or how long a reproduction will last.

FWIW, on RGP, John Wart recently mentioned he's had a blue one for 5 years: it arrived blue and is still blue.

#25 7 years ago

this auction ended 3 days ago CFTBL mr pinball in australia - check out the hologram. no mention of the hologram hack.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Creature-Black-Lagoon-Pinball-Machine-/160679498482?pt=AU_CoinOp&hash=item25693e92f2#ht_500wt_729

WTF

I can understand why everybody loves this guy

#26 7 years ago

this auction ended 3 days ago CFTBL mr pinball in australia - check out the hologram. no mention of the hologram hack.

Wonder what exactly this guy did here?

$(KGrHqQOKjgE6RdHWLSuBOu6rc211g~~60_3..jpg

#27 7 years ago
Quoted from NM:

Wonder what exactly this guy did here?

looks like he used his kids crayon set and penciled in a new one.

#28 7 years ago

I think i Might order a hologram repro from Pinballheaven in the UK and see how it looks, i need something to do the job untill i find a orginal hologram or until sombody make a nice copy of the orginal.

#29 7 years ago

If you want a legit hologram, I'd suggest buying another CFTBL..

sandiego.craigslist.org link

#30 7 years ago

He he he that will still leave me with one CFTBL without a hologram

#31 7 years ago
Quoted from kwiKimart:

If you want a legit hologram, I'd suggest buying another CFTBL..

sandiego.craigslist.org link

No mention of the condition of that hologram in the ad, and you can't tell from the pics.

#32 7 years ago
Quoted from kwiKimart:

If you want a legit hologram, I'd suggest buying another CFTBL..

sandiego.craigslist.org link

A CFTBL that looked to be in good condition just sold for about $1900 over hear. I'm shocked but it took a while to sell when it was listed for 2100 when they dropped it to $1900 it sold instantly. If it was in good condition someone got a great deal!

#33 7 years ago
Quoted from Mads666Mikkelsen:

And i think i have been all over the internet and there is no orginal hologram for sale......................... but i hope sombody will prove me wrong.

I was just in my local pin shop on Saturday and a resto was happening on a CFTBL..same issue with the Holo. I was told the originals are super hard to find...some thing to do with the chemicals between the plastics.

#34 7 years ago
Quoted from JDub1006:

I was told the originals are super hard to find...some thing to do with the chemicals between the plastics.

Direct UV light is also known to kill them.

#35 7 years ago

My creatures Holo is nice and clear but its more blue then green.

#36 7 years ago
Quoted from NM:

Direct UV light is also known to kill them.

I did not know that, wow.
What abute coold, frost ?

#37 7 years ago
Quoted from Mads666Mikkelsen:

What abute coold, frost ?

Don't know.

#38 7 years ago

It would be kind of fun to do a survey, abut the hologram in the CFTBL.

Do you have a CFTBL with a Working hologram or not?
What is the serial number ?
Where in the world do your CFTBL live?
If the hologram is not working, then why do you think that is ? Sun light , UV light, Extreme cold or heat, ect.

1 year later
#39 6 years ago

Still any CFTBL Hologram for sale somewhere ? Any kind would do,i d'ont really mind Green or blue...

Thanks a Lot

#40 6 years ago

What's taking the LCD version so long?

#41 6 years ago

I guess I should be happy that mine is still nice and green.

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