Quoted from Cybergoonie:flu shots are by far one of the worst things you can do for your body's overall physical & mental health.
uggh...this is by far one of the worst bits of advice uttered on pinside.
(Topic ID: 177462)
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Quoted from 0geist0:And you are qualified to say this how?
I live in the world of facts and believe in and have a degree in science.
Quoted from 0geist0:I had no choice then.
Here are the basics: Thousands of people, typically the elderly and kids, die every year from the flu(just the regular old normal flu). This number would be even higher without the vaccines. As it is, maybe only half of people get the vaccines. You are healthy, why bother, right? Wrong. You can carry the flu and not be sick and thus be contagious to others. This is especially dangerous if you spread it to the at risk of dying population. This is why healthcare workers are required to get flu shots.
This is the fundamental thing about healthcare that lots of people don't get. This applies to all illness. We are all in this together. Denying someone good, sound, science based healthcare comes back to bite us in the end. You can't live in a bubble.
Quoted from SirScott:And how many people die by *not* getting the vaccine?
Right.
Past few years avg is around 25000 in U.S., 250000-300000 worldwide...though some of those might have had the vaccine as well, it's not 100%
Quoted from o-din:you can take the necessary steps to stay healthy and become immune to those illnesses before somebody blows a big old juicy sneeze in your face.
bottle that formula and you'll be a billionaire...
Immunotherapy exists and is a real thing for allergies and the like, I'm not sure I've heard anything other than an anecdote or wives tale about making yourself immune to diseases like the flu or bad colds otherwise.
There are a few vaccines for deadly childhood illnesses and then a vaccine for flu. It's not like they are going X-files on you all the time!
Can't believe it's 2017 and we're still on the fence about science. NOTE: I'm not talking about trusting drug companies that make up drugs to make money (US and NZ are the only countries that allow TV commercials for that crap). I'm talking government health research into vaccines to keep the public at a basic, not dying level.
Quoted from Cybergoonie:I'm 38 and haven't been sick or gone to a Doctor in 20 years.
that's great and I'm sorry you had some health issues in the past but that is the definition of anecdotal evidence. You CAN research and find "something" to support almost any idea on the internet. There are people that actually claim climate change is a hoax and site evidence. Like the climate, the vast majority of medical and scientific data shows that vaccines work. Even more mild side effects from a flu vaccine are extremely rare, 1 in a million, so the adverse effects you speak of, if they happen at all would be far more rare than even that.
Remember: YOU can carry the flu and not be sick and you are still contagious. There are people that DIE from the flu. You are being irresponsible at best but it's still a free country...we'll see how long that lasts but for now, you can do what you want.
Quoted from Cybergoonie:Ever noticed how vaccinated children within days or few weeks develop runny noses, pneumonia, ear infections and bronchiolitis? The reason is the flu virus introduced in their bodies creates these symptoms. It also indicates immuno-suppression i.e. lowering of the immunity.
this is 100% factually wrong.
Immuno-suppression!!?!?!? It creates antibodies that fight the disease if you come in contact with it. That's the exact opposite. The mild symptoms(a runny nose, yes, pneumonia???, NO) show the body is making the antibodies to fight the imitation infection that a vaccine delivers.
Quoted from sevenrites:Am I wrong for thinking that if the flu shot is so effective, then those who get the shot shouldn't have to worry about dying from the flu just because they ran into a contagious person who hasn't gotten the shot?
Sort of, flu shot reduces your risk by 60 or 70% I think, so it's not 100% no.
Quoted from sevenrites:Another interesting tidbit is that people actually trust Big Pharma to be safe as if they're looking out for us
Flu vaccines aren't their big money makers, so I wouldn't put this in the same category as the masses of made up mass marketed drugs you see TV commercials for
Quoted from sevenrites:I suppose we should trust everything the government and media tells us as well.
What you're doing is creating a fallacy, a false argument. Assuming something is true, then applying it to every situation.
Nobody said trust them 100%, what we are talking about is the science behind vaccines.
Believe what you want, we're somehow becoming a fact free society I guess.
Quoted from sevenrites:guess work
Do you believe in gravity? That's just a theory....or an educated guess. I wouldn't jump off a building though.
This stuff is basic scientific method, don't turn it in to a faked Moon landing type of thing.
Repeat, you have the right not to get a flu vaccine, but know you are putting kids/elderly and other at-risk populations in danger by your decision. You being healthy has NOTHING to do with it.
Quoted from mbaumle:Scientific theories are the most reliable and comprehensive form of knowledge.
Right on. So, don't base your life and health on internet anecdotes? Check 
I used to eat burritos quite often, I also got really bad headaches, stopped eating the burritos..bam. No more headaches. Burritos cause headaches.
Quoted from metallik:I can kill myself quite handily
another secret formula?
Do what you like. I'm just reporting the science behind it. People are really set in their beliefs, I get it. No worries. Happy Holidays.
the hyperbole and anti-science rhetoric here is mind-boggling...
You guys remind me of the person that screams about being forced to wear a seat belt "My Aunt crashed in to a lake and drowned because of her seat belt!!" Oooooo...K. The other 99.999999% of the time it saves your life. These are things that you want to debate, but there is no debate. One side has actual facts and statistics and the other side has an anecdote about how they make themselves immune to disease somehow. Then we're back 75 years to the Tuskegee study!! Nonsense. Just nonsense. Again, you can believe what you want, that's the great thing about the U.S.
Quoted from Astropin:WTF? I was talking about not having you're kids vaccinated! Mind-boggling.
conflating everything...nonsense. Obviously we are in great danger from vaccines and should stop all of them...let's see how the avg lifespan does then. These guys are hilarious.
Quoted from Taxman:But if you think it is as prevalent as in the past you are going conspiracy level.
this is all conspiracy level! The mods should ban debates on science like they do politics. It's like going against a brick wall and the bricks are made of crazy, anecdotal, anti-science horseshit.
I'm getting one of my burrito headaches 
Quoted from zr11990:If it comes down to life or death such as something like Polio or Smallpox for example I'll step up, otherwise I'll take my chances
the chance you are taking is with other people's health and lives, that's the point that has been made 10 times already.
The science and logic and facts behind vaccines have been explained thoroughly here. Some people have an almost religious ideology about these things so it's not surprising that a rational point is missed. Your facts are wrong. You are entitled to your beliefs, but not your facts. People don't like being told they are dead wrong on something.
Quoted from SadSack:Is that why they never do double-blind clinical trials on any vaccines?
No, that's because in certain circumstances it's unethical to do that type of study. That's another red herring argument.
Quoted from SadSack:Well then certainly you have read the actual drug inserts that plainly state that the shots can cause: flu, Guillain-Barré Syndrome, paralysis and even death.
More red herrings. As for GBS, you are more likely to get that after having the flu than after getting the actual vaccine for the flu.
As I said earlier, believe what you want. Vaccines save lives. Facts....actual studies...science, proves that. Stories about grandma or your secret elixir to prevent colds and just stories.
Quoted from sevenrites:That's interesting. Because one of the side effects of getting a flu shot is death by flu.
mainstream sources, nice 
Quoted from zr11990:They don't vaccinate for smallpox or polio anymore as far as I know of.
Polio for sure
serious red herrings and false equivalence. Not sure if you guys don't get it or you are being intellectually dishonest but the comparisons being made are nonsense.
Seems like another either/or straw man argument. Of course, skeptics aren't always mistaken BUT we aren't talking about something that's done on a whim or hasn't been vetted scientifically. This isn't a brand new, experimental theory. It's intellectually dishonest to frame the debate that way.
Science isn't always right but it's a helluva lot more right than random bar stool musings when it comes to health. They've been refining the vaccine process for decades. Cherry picking negative examples and ignoring the vast majority of positive outcomes doesn't seem "fair", right?
If you want to go au naturel, we could go back to when the average life expectancy was in the 40's for people in the early 1900's because that's essentially the "let nature take it's course" argument. Besides the fact that the genie is out of the bottle with "nature". We have altered the way we deal with nature to compensate for all sorts of things that left unchecked would infect and kill us.
Another bonus of the flu vaccine, if you do get flu, it's less severe.
Even Fox News buys in to it:
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2017/01/10/fox-friends-doctor-shares-abcs-flu-prevention.html
Quoted from o-din:While my child was young, we never left her in the hands of anybody else. Never. Not once. Even after her mother and I were separated. Having a child is a big responsibility, and if you are not prepared to take on that responsibility, it is probably best that you have no children.
And that has essentially nothing to do with the vaccine question. They could have encountered this family at a restaurant/birthday party/anywhere and had a similar result. That's the point that has been made 100 times in this thread, the herd vaccine strategy. Blaming the parents is ludicrous.
There is a thing called an unexpected event or an "emergency" that is unavoidable. If you could imagine such an event, you could probably see where someone might have to find child care on short notice even for a young one. Nothing to do with not having the maturity to have kids, come on man. When we had just 1 little one, I was home w/kid, wife out of town on work trip. I got super violent food poisoning--I won't go in to that but I was suddenly, unexpectedly, down for the count. I had to get a friend to watch the kid for a few hours until I was able to get past the worst of it....shit happens.
Quoted from mamawaldee:I was born in 1968 and whatever was done back then is good enough
That story is a bummer but the exception does not make the norm and your problems likely had zero to do with the flu shot. The "when I was a kid" argument feels right but that's just a feeling.
Quoted from o-din:A child has 1000s time more chance dying being hit by a car or in a car accident, yet I see no movement to get all the cars off the road or prevent children from riding in them.
The car that hits the kid doesn't keep on hitting kids and spread the "hit by car" disease...this is false equivalence. These folksy examples all sound great and logical, but when you break them down they mean nothing.
and people get stabbed but we don't regulate knives....planes crash but we still fly...people drown but we still swim...all these things are great but they aren't preventable, potentially deadly to some (through no fault of their own), communicable diseases. The comparisons are non sequitur. They don't follow. Apples oranges etc
Things "feel" wrong if they weren't the way you were raised back in the day, that's human nature. Times change, science advances, the world changes...
Quoted from o-din:No, but there are more kids killed by cars so maybe eliminating cars should become more of a priority, don't you think?
cars aren't contagious
Quoted from o-din:#1 killers of children.
and there are laws that deal with it...that means they should make laws to enforce vaccinations? Not sure if I agree with you there, but I'll think about it.
Quoted from o-din:That's right. And if another flu like 1918 hits again, science will be too late to do squat.
They'd get a vaccine for it in 4-6 months and the losses would be much less in the interim due to the current state of public health agencies. They have plans and guidelines to deal with a pandemic that had to be thought up on the fly back in 1918.
Quoted from o-din:When the next flu like that hits, it will probably be of science's own doing that starts it.
too much SyFy channel!
Quoted from o-din:On another note wickerman, if that guy that's supposed to pick up Beat The Clock gets the flu and is too sick to pick it up, I'll send STI to get it.
Just confirmed...your best hope is a snowstorm at this point I think
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