Mmmmm. burritos!

Ok this is just stupid. Even people who get vaccinated can still come down with the flu. It's everywhere, it constantly mutates and vaccinations aren't going to eliminate it like polio or diphtheria. People who are at risk of DYING need to be in a hospital or other controlled environment during flu season. I'm 44, have never had a shot and at most just get a mild case of flu every few years (maybe.. might be bad colds for all I know). I avoid people on the day or two that I'm actually feeling sick, and my body figures out how to kill it off pretty quickly on it's own. I take no prescription drugs, no OTC drugs, and am healthy. Holding off as long as I can - the more you rely on drugs, the weaker you become IMHO.

So you're asking me to voluntarily inject manufactured, partially-killed disease into my bloodstream that will make me mildly ill, for a 65% chance it'll be the correct formula to maybe help kill a bug I only catch every few years, and that I can kill myself quite handily?

Sign me up!

As far as I'm concerned, flu vaccines are perfect for those people who get their asses kicked by the flu every year and need a cheat-sheet for their immune system to get the upper hand. I'm not to that point yet.

Who would have thought that a pinball forum could contain such a level of scientific theories. My hat is off to those who are educated in that field. I just don't feel comfortable with the concept.

Fucking wackos.

Finally it feels like I'm around real pinball people!

Speaking of which I just took mom out shopping and mentioned this topic to her. She remembers all too well the shot that sent her to the hospital and almost killed her. Her doc at the time said some react much worse and some even die. That's all the info I need on the subject.

I'll just leave this here.

100% agree

I'm in no way anti-vaccine and not even necessarily anti-flu shot, but a wise lady once told me you have to be your own advocate. For me I see limited benefit in getting a flu shot personally. I'm not going to get guilted into it on a pinball forum because I might be passing into onto other people with weaker immune systems. If they are high risk shouldn't they be the ones getting the shot?

another secret formula?

Do what you like. I'm just reporting the science behind it. People are really set in their beliefs, I get it. No worries. Happy Holidays.

.

I agree with both of these posts.

I went to the doctor about 4 years ago because I was having abdominal pain for about a week that wouldn't go away. I was not in agony by any means, just had some pain that was a 5/10. I was just concerned that it wasn't going away so I wanted to be checked by a doctor to make sure it wasn't something serious.

Before having any tests done, and therefore not really knowing what was going on, the doctor just wrote a prescription for some antibiotics.
You know, the magic cure all.

Well a week or two later, I started having terrible diarrhea. It got so bad, I was going to the bathroom up to 16 times a day.

Turns out that the antibiotics wiped out my "good" bacteria in my digestive system. So I wound up with C. Difficile. C. Diff is the number one cause of death of older people in hospitals. It was not fun having this, I can tell you that. It was without question the most sick I have ever been in my life, before or since. Nothing has even come close.

It took several months to combat this. I had to go to a specialist. Another round of antibiotics were used to combat the C. Diff, and it wasn't working. The specialist indicated that he would try one more round of antibiotics and if they didn't work that round, they were going to have to try more drastic treatment. Thankfully, the final round finally did the trick.

One of the main side affects of C. Diff is severe dehydration. Despite my best efforts to avoid this, it would still happen to a degree. It's hard to explain how this effected me from a personality point of view, but it wasn't pretty. Concentration was difficult. Not a good thing in my line of work.

I found out later about one of my classmates from HS who had a teenage daughter that also got C. Diff from antibiotics. She was hospitalized for months and almost lost her life from C. Diff....all caused from antibiotics.

Ever since then, I am extremely hesitant to use antibiotics. I will only take them under very specific circumstances where there is no question about the need to use them.

I know we are not talking about antibiotics here, but the general concepts and concerns are still similar. Taking a flu shot as preventative medicine is not something that I am remotely interested in doing. Especially since I very rarely get sick, and even this last round was more than likely not actually the flu (it only lasted a couple of days and I didn't have body aches).

In my case above, the cure was far, far worse than the disease.

For the most part true...although babies under 6 months cannot get it so it's advised (by doctors, the CDC, and apparently Satan?) that if you're interacting with them you are immunized. And the Dip/Whooping cough as well....but I heard a guy on the internet got a that shot once and it gave him Syphilis to be careful.

Uff that sucks...my buddy got that and then right after got MRSA...that's a dandy how do you do.

No, because often the people at the highest risk are incapable of receiving the vaccine. There are plenty of people who are unable to receive the flu vaccine. Anyone under the age of 6 months old cannot receive it, people with severely compromised immune systems cannot receive it, or people who are allergic to any of the components of the vaccine.

Vaccines work on two levels: The first level is through "herd immunization." This process is only effective when large groups of people receive a vaccine, and therefor do not become a disease vector (i.e. they cannot pass the flu to others). This is how people protect those who cannot receive the vaccine, since enough people surrounding them cannot pass it around.

The second level is the personal immunization factor: Where you, yourself receive immunization to keep diseases from spreading.

Damn!

People can have all sorts of bad reactions to things. Some people can die from exposure to peanut butter. But, there's medication available to help keep that under control.

There are lots of medications that can save lives and vastly improve the quality of life. They don't "make someone weak" by taking them. Insulin, penicillin, nitro, corticosteroids, chemo, heparin, tetracycline, thorazine, l-dopa--all life saving or life changing medications.

It's unfortunate, but any time you eat, drink, or take medication, there's always a risk in a small percentage of cases that it will affect someone adversely.

Going with the peanut butter example again, a few years back, some peanut butter was tainted with e. coli and ended up harming quite a number of people.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/19/us/peanut-butter-salmonella-trial/

However, that doesn't mean this is the norm or that all peanut butter is bad or harmful. Nor is every drug, medication, or vaccine. If you look back through history at the millions of people who died because of various diseases and conditions that we had no treatment for, and look at today where treatment is easily accessible, who can honestly say that modern medical science has not helped in some way?

In the meantime, you have some people insisting that medication is evil and will kill you even though that same medication has saved an insurmountable number of lives. Some people take this for granted. And to me, it's mind boggling.

Well sure but it's not like the died form the Flu or anything!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_flu_pandemic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Flu_in_1957
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic

I think someone missed the

Not a matter of evil.

Plenty of drugs can and do kill. Just a simple fact. After I got C. Diff. from antibiotics, I actually looked at the side effects listed on the insert. One of the side effects listed, literally, was "- death."

It's obviously a matter of the degree of risk. Having even a simple surgical procedure involves risk, including death. Doesn't mean that the surgery shouldn't be done.

Just being thorough for others reading along

I always think forceflow purposely misses the sarcasm because Clark Kent would....at least I always think that when I look at his pic

Don't worry, Mother Nature is just trying to help us out...By thinning us out

I have no choice but to get the flu shot as a condition of my employment. I feel like crap every single time I get it. Talking about reactions to medication... if I take the Z-pack guaranteed I will cry about something in the first 48 hours. I become stupidly emotional when I take it. It's hilarious. My kids laugh about it (good hearted ribbing at least). Car burned out a headlamp? Tears. Over cooked the meatloaf? Tears. Half of the roto-target stopped working? You get the idea.

I don't think it's the medicine doing that. I think it's just a natural thing from being a woman.

Lately I just get shitface drunk the nights before I go to my place of employment and seem to stay that way for most of the day. He doesn't require me to take drug tests or get any shots, just that I get there, do my job and am nice to the customers. Longest job I've held in my life! And I never take any sick days.

So basically, only people that aren't prone to getting sick can take the vaccine?

Wow, skipping to the end and not reading most of these posts because there is a lot of stupid talk. I work in a hospital for over 25 years. I am constantly exposed to so much it is not funny. My first few years I was getting sick a lot. Now I can't remember the last time I picked something up. Immune system +++.

We are required to take the flu shot or you have to wear a mask on any patient floors. It works. it is the best thing to do. come young, elderly or immune impaired the safest thing.

Do they always get the mix of strains right each year? No, but without it there would be crazy large scale sickness and death.

There will always be a few people with reactions to anything. In the case of flu vaccines an egg allergy is an issue. But overall these are some of the best things the human race has ever come up with since pizza and beer.

Bad news is you should have had the shot in October to be the most effective through the season.

Not entirely. The only people who cannot be given the vaccine are those with extreme conditions (again, like certain allergies, disastrously weak immune systems, infants). The whole premise of getting as many people vaccinated is to produce that "herd immunity" that DOES protect the people who are most vulnerable. This is why nearly all healthcare workers receive it, and that's why it's important that as many people as possible are vaccinated (not just for the flu, but for as much as possible).

There are plenty of vulnerable/prone to illness people out there who are completely able to receive the vaccine as well, and it serves as a strong protection for them. If anything, those people are the ones who should be getting immunized first.

Exactly the same with my wife. She has no choice because of her employment and feels like crap every time she gets it

I'm sure every nickel and dime store on every street corner that is selling flu shots has each patients best interest in mind.

The flu vaccine?

I don't think so.

Those that trust the government in any form or fashion are crazy. There have been many proven examples where they have used people as Guinea pigs. Why people think our government is any better or less corrupt than other governments is beyond me.

Yes!

Actually in my area they are free. Probably subsidized, yes, but not some huge money machine.

Why? What is on your list? Yes pot is stronger and the hops used for beer has been refined also. But the human race has experienced massive death and harm from disease such as bubonic plague, small pox, polio and yes flu. We take for granted the fear generations used to face from these sicknesses that we now have vaccines to limit.

Stop making sense! I work in an environment which, while not a hospital, has a shitload of people herded together like cattle (trading pit). Someone sneezes and it hits about 15 people. The exchange offers free flu shots every October and I've seen the flu tear through the place like a hot knife through butter with a vast majority of the people left standing having had the shot. You can believe what you want to believe, but I've seen firsthand (and had the flu something fierce before getting the shot) it work so you bet your ass I'll keep getting it. And yes I have felt a little fatigued/off the day after the shot but it's a small price to pay.

BTW wasn't it Bayer that sold blood tainted with AIDS to hundreds of people and when they were called on it they simple sold it in other countries? I never vaccinated my kids and they never got sick. I do not do flue shots or any other other shots unless I have to.

It's amazing isn't it? Those same people have never heard of the Tuskegee experiment and even if they read it they wouldn't believe that it happened anyway. That happened with a government that is way less corrupt than the one we have now also! I wouldn't put anything past the current administration we have now.

Shouldn't something this dangerous to some require a doctor visit and prescription instead of handing them out like halloween candy?

I started getting a tickle in my throat (be nice) Wed around noon, and by 5pm head was swimming. Nyquild the shit outta myself, went to bed at 630, slept most of Thursday, back at about 80% today, thank god.

My body knows better than to get sick, it knows it ain't going to the doctor.

This absolutely has to be the dumbest (and most disturbing) post I've ever read on Pinside.....and I've been here a while.

Not getting your kids vaccinated should be a punishable crime.

the hyperbole and anti-science rhetoric here is mind-boggling...

You guys remind me of the person that screams about being forced to wear a seat belt "My Aunt crashed in to a lake and drowned because of her seat belt!!" Oooooo...K. The other 99.999999% of the time it saves your life. These are things that you want to debate, but there is no debate. One side has actual facts and statistics and the other side has an anecdote about how they make themselves immune to disease somehow. Then we're back 75 years to the Tuskegee study!! Nonsense. Just nonsense. Again, you can believe what you want, that's the great thing about the U.S.

And as long as the US leaves the choice up to each individual and doesn't try to force anybody to take a shot they don't want, it will always be great.

Let's just hope they aren't cooking something up that might accidentally get released on the population that might cause a real epidemic.

BNL got it right. Stay away from Chinese chicken or you'll get the bird flu.

"Chickity China the Chinese chicken
You have a drumstick and your brain stops tickin'"

birdflu (resized).PNG

Am I going to be the first person in this thread to being up what we have all been thinking?

"Zombie Apocalypse"

75 years ago huh? Try 1932-1972, there's your facts right there!!! That's just one study that we know about, how many has there been that we don't know about? I'm definitely not here to argue about this and I'm not going to, but you need to wake up!

Here you go. http://ahrp.org/bayer-documents-aids-tainted-blood-killed-thousands-of-hemophiliacs/

They'll tell you that's just another paranoid, made up, conspiracy story with no basis in fact. They have an answer for every doubter.

WTF? I was talking about not having you're kids vaccinated! Mind-boggling.

As Neil Young sang "I've seen the needle and the damage done, a little part of it in every one"

Yes. Back in 1984 was like a dark ages of virus testing and diagnosis. Watch the movie "And The Band Plays On". Think about the logarithmic progression of technology in the recent decades. This was over 30 years ago and only 20 before that we hadn't walked on the moon yet (if that was real). Do company profits get weighed against legal costs? Yes, every day. But if you think it is as prevalent as in the past you are going conspiracy level.