Buy-ins/continues make arcade games less fun in the home environment, but for coin-op it totally makes sense. You want people to keep pumping quarters in to keep going. It definitely caused a split in design theories between arcade and console games...when the two had been the same for so long. Arcade games became quick rushes - fighting, driving, shooting. Consoles moved more toward larger narratives and huge worlds.

As for pinball, it absolutely made business sense for games like STTNG & Road Show to add a continue button. Keep the location player pumping in quarters to "see the end". I'm surprised Stern never did it, especially with super lengthy deep rules games like LOTR and TSPP. I'm surprised Jack didn't do it with WOZ due to depth and for operators (maybe there's a setting? I dunno). If Hobbit is another super lengthy quest game like LOTR - I say, bring on the buy-in! Don't like it, don't use it.

Given the trouble getting games out the door, lets go with Atari Jaguar.

I dunno, it might be an impostor. There wasn't a paragraph about the 100's of toys and how gorgeous it is and how he blows a yellow brick load every time he thinks about it.

Do you have this on a macro or do you really re-type this 10 times a week?

I have no problem with WOZ or JJP. I also have no problem with rational fact based constructive criticism.

I do have a problem with long-winded redundancy.

Takes 1 second to thumbs down someone vs. however long it takes to type multiple paragraphs. I don't stalk, but if I see a long-winded trollish post from certain redundant individuals, I will thumbs down as a time saver to responding. The feature's there to say "I disagree"....why call me a stalker for using it?

Context is your friend, and you KNOW I often write positive things about JJP/WoZ when there are positive things to discuss. I just think it's silly how any constructive criticism is instantly dismissed by you as "hate", followed by multiple paragraphs about how WOZ is the most complex game ever made with the most best toys ever. You don't have to take it so personally and sell it so hard every time.

I love you too

I think it would be hard to get soundalikes for characters that are more or less just using their own voices....but I bet you could get solid soundalikes for the more "charactery" voices like Gollum.

I'm waiting for the extended 3D edition. I've got Hobbit 1 Extended 3D ...not buying each of these things twice.

This is why all pinball companies hate releasing work in progress stuff. This is a whitewood...don't look at the scoring lol....if the numbers move it's pretty much just to indicate the ball touched something.

I dunno - after watching this whitewood I had a ton of questions/criticisms...but I'm just kinda sitting on it since it's clearly just an early shooting whitewood with most features "temp'd" in. Cool to see...but not sure I can judge what's to come by seeing it.

I was like "It's the Fish Tales ramp but something's off...the ball keeps going to the same flipper that shot it" ...looked at a Fish Tales pic - "Oh! It doesn't have the cross-over wireforms for the Figure-8 effect"

...but I think there's a diverter there, right? So, it could go to the upper flipper...I think?

I dunno.

Really trying to figure out the point of the upper flippers....but again - whitewood...let's see where this goes.

That's being kind. They just have that "home made fan-mod sculpture" look that personally, I just don't find appealing. They don't look like real pinball toys. I don't have high hopes for Smaug…sorry.

Or Butt-Head after being set on fire.

The Goblin looks like an ugly cat with a cleft palate.

~~~~~~
Pinchroma said:
I think Matt R is one of the most universally talented artists I have ever had the pleasure of working with. I think his work is phenomenal and stands above anything you can buy from mattel
~~~~~~

I know you're a company man, but do you truly believe this?!

I think the main issue people had with off the shelf toys wasn't the fact that they were off the shelf…but just used as decoration - not truly interactive toys. They're essentially sculptures. Matt's toys are essentially sculptures. They're non-interactive or at best - bash toys. Really no different than the off-the-shelf toys, conceptually. So - if we're just comparing sculptures to sculptures - sorry, the off the shelf toys win. Stern's original toys of the last few years win as well. Wolv/Magneto are useless…but are good sculpts. Hulk looks great. Sparky & the Metallica toys look great. Walking Dead toys look great..

Matt's toys look like they belong in a Claymation film. They've got that "lumpy" (as Rob put it) clay look to them. It may work for castle walls, bt just doesn't work for all applications. State Fair Ballon? Why is it lumpy? Now we're getting into characters from a film with brilliant artistry behind it…these toys don't look like licensed toys from this franchise should look. The Witch didn't look that great, and neither do these.

They were posted in JJP's official "The last WOZLE is done!" Newsletter…so yeah, they're real.

Jack did change the lumpy afro wig to a plastic after a collective "WTF"…so - you never know.

Hey so - I just watched The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug last nite on HBO. That's my Hobbit update! Thank you, hope it was informative!

So...when will the actual release date going to be announced? I can't imagine it's actually going to ship in December as originally anticipated.

Playfield is a billion times better now. It has crisp distinct colors, action lines and text are clear, it's exciting and bold. Congrats JJP and thanks for listening to constructive criticism. The game has now gone from looking "Homemade" to "Professional".

To the two people who like the original boring mudslide blob playfield .....waaaaah, you'll come around.

Well here's the thing about the "giant dragon" - Both versions have Smaug in the center, so you can easily say the old version is redundant as well. The dragon's there no matter what. The first version was dull, boring and lifeless...mountain, small dragon, sky. The new version has vibrancy, energy, personality. It sells the tone and grand nature of this adversary.

Forget about WOZ for a second. A month ago this game was revealed at Chicago Expo to a resounding "WTF!" A month later, the game has at the very least been massively improved from an aesthetic standpoint. Your other points may be valid - but this effort to improve the game this close to release has to be commended.

While I agree, since it's 2014 and we should have moved on already - there IS still a "pinball specific" charm to well done dots. TWD has really nice animation, and it's appropriate that it's displayed in red. If you really want to see real TWD footage, you can watch the show.

It's Sloth from The Goonies! Ya know, just something fun for everyone who wants a Goonies pin

So why did LOTR's production go so smoothly? There was never a ball going thru a ring or hitting the Balrog, yet, they're in the game. The DMD shows a ball going into the tower when you get the Tower Skill Shot. They were also given access to all 3 movies before they were released, and got Frodo and Gimli for custom voices.

Final art is the cool looking one with giant Smaug. The boring sky/mountain one was shown at Expo in October and roundly rejected by the masses - resulting in the revised playfield.

Well, lets look at AC/DC. The modes are non-linear...you can pick any one you want in any order. So anyone who plays 12 games on AC/DC has the opportunity to see all 12 songs/modes. I have no idea how the Hobbit modes will play out - but I have to assume they'll be non-linear in some respect...so there's probably a good chance average players will get to experience most of them.

About what? Avatar's value?

Nah, we just had you stringing people along for a non-existent MM remake for 10 years.

Smaug had custom speech when they showed the game in Chicago last October. He was yapping away and definitely didn't sound like Cumberbatch (more like Darth Vader).

For updates? ...I'd imagine?

It's a licensed product...you don't get to hire your friends and family to do voices for licensed products. Like them or not, those are the voice actors WB chose and/or approved of. Doesn't mean they made the right choice. Listen to the terrible voices on X-Men or the miscast voices on Avengers....both approved by Marvel.

It's better for JJP to have a "portfolio" of games for customers to choose from - that's the only way they become real competition to Stern. Right now a customer's choice for NIB pinball is WOZ, Metallica, Mustang, Star Trek, Walking Dead, Kiss, WWE, and Whoa Nellie. 7 choices from Stern, 1 from JJP. All it takes is someone not digging the theme or the price, and they go buy a Stern.

If you weren't in the pre-order group, how long will it take before you can just buy one? ...and at that point - it's what, $9k+? I don't know if anyone's that passionate about the movies to drop that kind of dough on the pin. Might be too little, too late, too much. I think Tolkien nuts would rather save a few bucks and pick up a LOTR.

...but its it $9k cool? Most people don't care about LOTR's 'faults'...it's stood the test of time and the theme is great. $4k-$5k gets you one, so the price is still "reasonable"....and, it was ~$3500 a few years back. If a pinball is $9k, it damn well matters if you're attached to the movie/theme. People buy Shadow because it's a great game @ ~$2k. No one would pay $9k for Shadow, no matter how great the game is. Theme is massively important with NIB pinball, especially as prices rise.

Tron was considered the type of "cheap" games that Jack claimed his customers didn't want to buy. It was also the 4th game in a row Borg designed, as he was Stern's only designer at that point. Tron wasn't even that well received at first. The usual complaints of "cheap", "no toys", "Photoshop art", "DVD cover translite", "shallow rules" are what Tron dealt with at first - just like Iron Man. Now they're two of the most beloved modern games...go figure!

So you don't plan on owning Tron? That's really a shame. It's a great game, and you can get one NOW! Actually you could have been enjoying it for 4 years now.

Huzzah!!!

So - the takeaway here is that there are no Hobbit updates but 4 years later we all still love Tron and it has the best music in pinball.

David Thiel rules. I'm sure the music will be great.

...but it does...and beyond!

You can't think of it this way. More games available = MORE customers. You can't assume every potential JJP buyer wants a Hobbit. Do Stern's multiple titles available at any given time cannibalize sales? No, they bring in more customers as there are more choices - they keep revenue coming in and the factory churning. A pinball company needs multiple titles on the line to be a successful manufacturing company.

"People on here" are a minor fraction of pinball sales. They're trying to sell games to all kinds of customers around the world - not just the hardcore forum fanatics.

You're wrong. We're a small set of buyers. A pinball company cannot thrive with just us. Stern has 8 titles in production. More titles = more customers = more sales = more growth. Think long term. JJP's games will be in production for years. If even *one* sale is "cannibalized" - that buyer might come back in a year and buy another JJP game. In the short term, more titles = more choice = more sales. The facts...moving on....

Rob actually *IS* Steve Kordek! Steve was such a genius, one of his pinball machines actually allowed him to travel forward in time, & he took on the name "Rob T"! At some point he's going to have to travel back again so he can continue to make all those games...but in the meantime, he's here amongst us - so respect him! He did invent pinball!!!!!

Sorry to out you Steve, er, I mean Rob...

What ever became of Balcer, anyway? It was odd that he left well before the game was finished. Did he ever land on his feet somewhere?

Words...words....words.....

Is there a Hobbit update somewhere buried in this mess!? Is it still scheduled to release this year?

You can't compare bad-movie 90s games to new ones. No one would ever spend $9k on Shadow. Most who have one spent less than $2k. In order to spend NIB money on a game the buyer generally has to have some connection with the theme.

That's like saying Hobbit pronounces WOZ dead. They're still building/selling WOZ. It's important for a factory to have multiple titles on the line so the company has multiple products to sell. Does GoT make Kiss, TWD, ST, Mustang, etc dead? Nope. Stern will build all to meet demand from customers. More choices = more customers. You can't force someone to want Hobbit. They either do or don't. If they don't, maybe they'll want a WOZ or Lawlor-Mystery-Game instead.

I think you massively overestimate how one game "negatively affects" sales of another. IMO - there is generally zero correlation. Most companies make multiple products. That's how business works...is Charmin worried that one type of toilet paper is taking away sales from their 10 other types? More choice...more market share...it's all good.

Vic is a legend!
Look up Working Designs! Glad to see you here, Vic!