The Hobbit
Jersey Jack, 2016You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider pimp77.
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Quoted from markmon:It's really hard to tell but so far I don't see anything good to shoot at with the upper flippers that can't be hit by the lowers. Kind of a bummer. They seem like they're there just to be there. I'd like to see a ramp or loop to shoot at. Is anyone else reading this differently?
I suspect there is a shot or two for the upper flippers we haven't seen yet that can't be made from the lower flippers...we'll see though you'd expect them to remedy that same issue that WOZ has.
Quoted from PinballRulez:Anybody has a prediction on how the 2 posts or going be utilized in de red boxes?
Hobbit whitewood.jpg 40 KB
Those are targets...bump the ball into them when draining?
Quoted from CaptainNeo:yes, but the left side has a kickback right there, which means there isn't going to be room for a pop bumper there, so HTF are you going to be able to hit that target?
Body English...bump that machine just as the ball reaches the wall.
Quoted from Sly_Old_Devil:...grab the Oakenshield...
Hmmm...I think you mean arkenstone. I'll leave the grabbing of the Oakenshield for you. 
Quoted from Plungemaster:Fish Tales u ramp. Mm trolls. Lotr rails.
Don't forget WOZ bumpers... 
Quoted from unigroove:Aside noticing the book, is that playfield artwork on that game?
Yes. 
It looks great.
Quoted from jams77:Something tells me something went down. If he left of good terms he would of had a statement about leaving and thank Hack for opportunity. Maybe even saying he looks foward to us playing the game. We got nothing. People say the games done are foolish. Just a few weeks back we got a whitewood vid that looked so far from done. If I don't see something in the next week I'm out.
LOL at you thinking that was the latest white wood and bailing if no info coming. I say bail...it doesn't sound like your stomach has the fortitude to make it on this journey that is likely a year out still.
The third Hobbit movie clips and such won't be in the game until it releases on DVD/blu-ray. Not allowed.
Quoted from Jvspin:Jack mentioned at the North West Pinball show that Jean-Paul de Win did the playfield art. He also mentioned that the upper left flipper was removed. A couple shots of the playfield art around the inlanes was shown.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/48529172
Yep...the upper left flipper is replaced with a slingshot behind a rubber. There wasn't anything to shoot with it so it went.
Quoted from kvan99:Hmmm...more changes this late in production, cant's say yet if it's a good thing or bad at this point.
LOL, this didn't just happen. It happened long ago. Just like the artwork change on the cabinet. The side with the white Orc is no more.
Quoted from kvan99:How long is long ago? I remember seeing the upper flipper on the white wood video that surfaces in April..?
That whitewood and video is really old too.
Quoted from solarvalue:Really? This would be great if true, please confirm source.
Source is very reliable...also heard that there is a chance the LE might have different artwork than standard too.
Quoted from pinball_keefer:Just as a head's-up... If you think you know how this game is going to play, I promise you you do not!
Can't wait to play it. I know you've said you are not going to copy the LOTR rules, but rather do something unique. That's why your games are really great. That being said...those inserts still appear to be a multiball mode from each movie.
Quoted from someoneelse:The only thing we haven't seen at all yet is smaug
Not close to the only thing we haven't seen yet.
Quoted from someoneelse:Correct. Let me put it this way - i've seen more than enough to know that i want one. They really would have to make HUGE mistakes in order to ruin what's known by now.
I've also seen enough of Predator to know that i most likely will not want one.
Actually i'm not a big fan of giving it all away upfront. I like to be surprised by the finished product. They should concentrate on making the best possible pin instead of entertaining pinheads with constant progress updates. For me the flow of info is perfect as it is.
But i do acknowledge that there are many arguments that justify releasing certain info upfront on a prepay pin.
I agree but hope people aren't expecting Smaug to be more that he really is...I would temper expectations.
Quoted from Leechman:I'd agree but hopefully in completed game they'll look better! I was definitely disappointed at first glance but trying to keep an open mind on them. Bash toys not too big of a deal for me but the main toys need to be amazing for me to stay in for sure!
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Look at the troll...it looks terrible there, but pretty good in the game. I think we will see the same effect here. While the goblin and Orc could use some serious work, they won't look that bad in the game popping up at that distance IMO. Time will tell and this is the bad part about releasing info bit by bit...gets REALLY analyzed and torn apart. Smaug better be up to snuff!!
Quoted from Jigs:Here is a bottle opener that we had made in our warehouse that measures the same as what you describe. There were probably 40 of these made in a few days, for wrap gifts for various folks on the crew. It took one artist, and I realize this is not a very high standard either. But, this was just a fun wrap gift.
We shoot small items all the time and with high-def we have to be incredibly accurate with details. I think a lot of folks here expect the same.IMG_0821.JPG 122 KB
IMG_0820.JPG 140 KB
Can that thing take repeated abuse from a steel ball and not chip any detail or break off the nose?
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:Because that quality of art cant be produced in a different material like the one Matt orefers?
Maybe not in those dimensions required for the pop-up...maybe the finer details would chip off? I'm not an expert here in sculpting or making toys, but those are legit reasons I would guess. Licensee approval is another...
That said, I do think the Orc and Goblin look off...but they still look ok.
Quoted from pinball_keefer:Actually yours looks to be about 533% larger than what I described, but it does look quite nice.
33%...
Quoted from pinball_keefer:Just to justify my math:
1.5 x 1.5 x .75 = 1.6875
2.25 x 2 x 2 = 9
9 / 1.6875 = 5.33333
Oh, my mistake...I was just going by length: 2" / 1.5" = 1.33333 or 33% larger.
But your calc is better. 
Quoted from DCFAN:I think Keith's point was that the depth was a design factor because they are bash toys that need to be robust while also fitting in a tight spot that does not have much depth. It is much easier to make something accurately in appearance when you have no limitations in all directions, unlike the pop up figures which had to be morphed to fit the shallow front-to-back space available.
As well as left to right and up to down space...that defines the dimensions of the creature's face, which may not match reality so a little morphing is required.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:There's plenty of good things to say about The Hobbit as opposed to making negative ones. For example all of the ramps and rails are metal as opposed to plastic. I would expect at least metal rails when spending $7k+ on a pin. The playfield artwork looks great especially after the team took into consideration customer feedback. We know that the code will be much further along at the release of the game then WOZ was when it first began shipping. The game is going to have two VUK's, a subway, 11 drop targets, a kick back, mechanical mini axes, two magnets and hopefully a very interactive Smaug toy. There's rumors about an interactive map on the apron of the game as well as a 5" LCD incorporated into the Bag End area. The game is also driving 17 more things then WOZ resulting in it weighing more then WOZ which many consider to be one of the most feature packed pins out there. With the game driving 17 more things I think that there is much more to be revealed. Plus we have another epic Keith Johnson ruleset to look forward to it.
As for the pop ups. Yeah I wish the Orc and Goblin were more detailed but like others have said they are very small and needed to be designed a certain way to pass WB approval. I thought the MM troll pop ups looked great until I saw them up close in this thread. The Goblic and Orc pop ups will be furthest away with the Spider and Wargs one being closer. When The Hobbit's pop ups are seen in the completed game I think they will look perfectly fine.
I think a lot of the 17 more drivers will be eaten up by the drops...I think they MAY be individually resettable/droppable by the software, which would be awesome. Not sure, but someone at JJP said the drops would be a first of kind? Don't quote that. I can't imagine what else they could be if not just a standard bank? Hoping for an expo reveal...
Quoted from Goronic:Perhaps Smaug needs several as well?
I assume a few there too!
Quoted from pinball_keefer:mmmmmmmmmaybe.
So you've covered about 20% of the possibilities.
So...skill shots:
1) lock rollovers
2) plunge to left Outlane.
3) Dwarf drops
4) Man drops
5) plunge to inlane (short or long), then shot?
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:Why were 5 (or more??) JJP employees on Pinside the evening of a new release of Hobbit info waiting to respond to a wave of criticisim??
Because they care and are interested in feedback?
Quoted from Aurich:The lesson here is you gotta be careful when you choose your theme. Some licenses are going to handcuff you and restrict your creative freedom. Unfortunately Hobbit was one of those, and we've already gone through what that meant. No point in beating that horse any further.
Luckily JJP was able to work around some of it, but TBL to me is what pinball art should look like. And that's a purely personal thing, but seeing that hand drawn stuff just tickles the right spots for me. And I wish Hobbit could have had it.
So it goes. We haven't even seen Hobbit populated with an attract mode running, I don't think it's entirely fair to even start comparing things.
And as much as I'm super impressed with TBL, the code is a giant mystery. Hobbit has Keefer, and he's about as far from a mystery as you can get, unless you mean "how the hell does he keep creating these incredibly complicated rule sets?"
The difference is one is an ancient out of date asset that has minimal "value" in today's market (TBL) and the other is HOT now (Hobbit). Guess which one allows you to do pretty much whatever you want.
Quoted from vex:if tbl is ancient what would woz be? i would choose tbl over woz or hobbit because dp picked a theme that gave them the artistic freedom to elevate the machine to a whole new level never seen before. it's too bad jjp is saddled with restrictions because they picked a hot theme. i never knew hobbit was hot now? when did this happen?
The difference is in popularity of theme. Everyone knows Wizard of Oz, everyone knows Hobbit, most people know what The Walking Dead is, however not that many people know what The Big Lebowski is...it's a 'weak' license at this point in time. That's not a dig. It's a cult film. The license holders are more apt to not be so tight on the representation of their assets. You could say the same thing about Predator. The fans it does have are fanatical though. It's a great movie and I think will make a great pinball game.
Quoted from OldPinster:I'm afraid I don't understand this. So, TBL is "ancient out of date" and "minimal value in today's market". And that apparently allows complete artistic freedom? And Hobbit is "HOT now" so they have more scrutiny and therefore allowed poor art to pass their approval? It seems pretty clear the latest pop-ups reveal left everyone wondering what the heck is going on at Jersey pinball. Not so good.
Wait until you see Hobbit fully populated...I think JJP should not have revealed squat and unveiled all at once. Less scrutiny and you see the whole package at once. What may not look so good on its own may look great when seen as a total package.
Quoted from kvan99:I love LOTR and the Hobbit and I watched TWD (first three seasons anyway), but I'd rather have an great pin with a mediocre theme vs a mediocre pin with a great theme anyday.
Yep...me too (I own JM and RS )
I'm hoping for great theme + great game for both Hobbit and TBL though. I personally think TBL is a great theme as I like the movie, but others won't.
Quoted from Aurich:And? Who cares. Pick a better theme then. No one put a gun to Jack's head and said "make a Hobbit pin". I love The Hobbit, but let's face it, the movies pale next to LOTR. The world would have gone on without a pin based on it, plastered with PR stills from the film and actor's faces.
As a theme for a pin it's a great idea! As a movie product it's okay. If they licensed the book instead, and did original art for it? Like Rankin Bass style? Or watercolor. Or whatever, but not photoshopped heads. Yeah, it won't have a big movie billboard on it. Tell me people wouldn't buy and play that still.
Whatever, I'm sure that wasn't an option, and it's too late now, I look forward to the completed project still. But companies, are you listening? F this studio promo PR photoshop shit. If your theme will require it, then stop, and pick another one. If you must do licenses, be imaginative, pick ones that will give you freedom to make something incredible. We'll buy it.
I absolutely agree on everything you said. I was just stating the license differences and the likely much more freedom given to TBL vs Hobbit. Hand-drawn original artwork? Who WOULD'NT want that? Stay tuned for Lawlor's original theme...that should be what we're asking for creatively.
Quoted from CraZ4Pin:I have no idea and don't really care.
Oh but you do...you do care, otherwise you wouldn't constantly be posting here.
Quoted from lllvjr:Ok back on track....
I pitched putting a camera in the speaker bar even specked one out for install. Set up the coding for high scores with something like ngg where u have a high score of the day. This would give any person the ability to put up a high score walking up to a game at any given day. When the high score was hit a camera in the metal speaker bar pointed at you would take your picture. So you would have that with your initials on the screen. Something I think out on location that could possible get out of hand at bars n stuff lol.
So it's not making it into the hobbit, maybe ill get lucky and my idea will make it into pats game!
I'd want my money going into a GAME feature instead of a camera for high scores...but that's just me maybe.
What's new besides the button and backglass (way better than old one)?? The art is the same (nut sack king on left, white Orc on right). Disappointed. 
Quoted from Rarehero:Playfield is a billion times better now. It has crisp distinct colors, action lines and text are clear, it's exciting and bold. Congrats JJP and thanks for listening to constructive criticism. The game has now gone from looking "Homemade" to "Professional".
To the two people who like the original boring mudslide blob playfield .....waaaaah, you'll come around.
I liked the old one...but wow, the new one IS sooooo much better! I love the green at the bottom, reds at top. It pops now! And the dragon...front and center and mean and nasty. Love it!
Quoted from Dr-Hex:Is the new version still going to have the firing mechanism on the lockdown bar / apron?
Yes
Quoted from pascal-pinball:It's still a bad playfield lay-out...
Are you serious? If you don't like fan layouts I guess, but ok. Most of the top games are "fans".
Quoted from heckheck:I am all for having one on the lockdown bar, but JJP please add one wired in parallel as an extra side flipper button. After all my posting on this during the "feedback phase", I was disappointed not to see that in the list of changes. I think people would really use a flipper finger reachable instance of the diverter control.
-Jim
I'm sure they thought this through...
Quoted from RealityCheck:Jesus. Its all the same fanboys on a different day. It's absolutely amazing how little can change on this game and suddenly it's "amazing". The rest of the world are just rolling their eyes.
Smaug is still just a silly talking sock puppet (and still mediocre artwork at that). The gold Smaug is just altogether ridiculous. What about the rest of his body and what about him actually interacting with the ball directly? JJP never listened from day 1. The thing is just silly.
There is a serious lack of actual toys in this game. Extremely weak for the price. I can pay 4500 for a NIB Stern and get more. TWD looks like an amazing bargain right now! That's the sad truth ("oh, but the lcd screen and real metal wireforms ... ", shut up. Give me a break fanboys).
Oh hey, ramp etchings! sorry but they are completely boring. couldn't do some figure or symbol or something more creative there?? It just seems like another weak attempt at following Stern. No creativity whatsoever.
The apron ... just new artwork? I really liked everyone's idea of an interactive and lighted map. I thought that was a no-brainer. This is just another step back. How can you describe this as anything else? people suggested and had been hoping for an interactive apron of some sort (or at least add in some amazing backlighting or something original!) Again, completely boring, static, and unoriginal. Certainly not what I would expect in a seriously expensive game like this.
They threw on a 5" lcd ... which now looks completely out of place, boring, and who knows what they need it for to begin with. Lift your eyes 12" higher to the much touted 22" lcd for crying out loud!! It's basically pointless and at this point the modders could have done a much better job integrating it into the game. What a waste and at the expense of not having a 2nd toy at that. Even yet another step back from WOZ, this time the crystal ball. Terribly weak.
Overall cohesiveness ... im sure it is just me but this looks like a complete mess. A serious kludge. I guess this is what happens when you lose your lead designer.
In the end Im thinking ... maybe this could be moderately fun ... if it cost 5000-5500! But at the price they're asking they've not done their job. A big step back from WOZ. A huge disappointment from what many of us were hoping for 2 years ago.
The fanboys can (and will) thumbs down this all they want. This game will not sell thousands which is what JJP really needed. Hopefully there are enough of you who will still buy no matter what (or are too lazy to cancel or you're still holding onto your pipe dream that this game will somehow go up in value, lol). Because its up to you boys and girls to keep JJP alive until Pat's game comes out.
It's obvious you have been on here a while and didn't just join pinside today. Why didn't you have the balls to post this with your usual account? Is this CraZ4Pin??
Quoted from RealityCheck:Jesus. Its all the same fanboys on a different day. It's absolutely amazing how little can change on this game and suddenly it's "amazing". The rest of the world are just rolling their eyes.
This implies that you have been on pinside, not facebook.
Quoted from RealityCheck:Why is Smaug a mediocre piece of child artwork and only his head at that?
Seriously? Wow. It looks great and isn't totally shown yet...his tail will be present too.
Quoted from RealityCheck:Why does Smaug not directly interact with the ball despite customers begging for this for 2 years?
Apparently this was WBs decision, not JJPs.
Quoted from RealityCheck:How are cabinet decals not a step back from direct-print on ECLEWOZ?
Because we won't have to wait years for them to be produced. That, AND we have a new option that looks BETTER than the direct print cabs.
Quoted from RealityCheck:Why are the number of LED inserts cut in half (or more?) from WOZ?
Have you seen the mechs on the bottom of the playfield??? No room for inserts! What's there looks great though. Plenty of inserts for awesome lightshows.
Quoted from RealityCheck:Why could JJP not come up with a creative use for an lcd on the playfield like the cyrstal ball? Pointless.
I personally think the book is quite clever and a great addition. You will be writing Bilbo's book while you play! Brilliant!! I do hope it interacts with the player more than the crystal ball though and from what I've seen, it does!
Quoted from RealityCheck:Where are all the toys that were in WOZ???
Those toys were WOZ-specific. 
Seriously though...4 pop-up creatures, smaug, book LCD, crazy number of drop targets, axe slings, barrel bumpers? What does WOZ have? Crystal ball, spinning house, monkey, castle doors? Seems about even...maybe even more toys on Hobbit.
Quoted from RealityCheck:Why is more than 2/3 of the playfield completely wide open ... nothing .. void. That's all you could come up with to introduce better "flow"?
It's a fan layout ala AFM, MM, MB, etc... It's a tried and true layout that has flow and is fun.
Quoted from RealityCheck:Why is JJP no longer including a topper even on the LE's? Where did the cost for that go into?
Because toppers are lame. Cost probably went into developing the game, or maybe into JJps pocket. Either way, who cares? I hope JJP makes a shit-ton off this game so he continues to put out great games.
Quoted from RealityCheck:It's amazing that given a very small number of neat things to look at on the playfield JJP actually managed to find a way to detract from the pop bumer toppers with that ugly looking lcd.
The aesthetics of the LCD border aren't done...wait and see the final result before judging.
Quoted from RealityCheck:Why is there simply a metal apron with art and not wooden on the LE version (excuse me, versions) of this game? Just 1 more step back from WOZ and again, you couldn't even so much as add backlighting or something original on it?
We don't know if this is final, but I think it looks quite good. One of the best looking aprons I've seen in a loooong time.
Quoted from RealityCheck:You can get a TWD shipped to you in the $4500-4600 range no problem. Where do you see the justification for another $4000 (or more) in this game?!? It's just ridiculous. You have to know you are financing the numerous business mistakes JJP has been making to date, no? Because the money is definitely not in the bill of material.
You're ridiculous and you should buy TWD pro. GTFO.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I hear ya. In my opinion stop and go games like WOZ can be just as fun as the fastest games out there. Increasing the flow in a game comes at the expense of reducing the number of toys or devices in a game that interact with the ball. For $7500+ I want a pinball machine to have multiple unique things that interact with the ball. WOZ does that in a variety of ways but I'm just not feeling that with The Hobbit right now. There are a lot of people out there that prefer flow over stop and go and vice versa. I'm glad that JJP is trying to please everyone with games that offer different styles of play. I tend to prefer WOZ style games at these price points which is why I'm holding out for Pats game. Alternating between a high flow game and a stop and go game sounds like a good design strategy to me as it pleases customers on both side of the fence.
I love WOZ, but does it's toys interact with the ball more than Hobbit?
Ball interaction toys on WOZ:
1) Monkey
2) 4 playfield magnets
3) 3 castle doors
4) 1 drop target
5) 1 spinner
6) 2 VUKs
7) 1 ramp diverter
8) Wizard saucer
9) 7 rollover buttons
That's stretching it as most of those are just standard pinball things.
Ball interaction toys on Hobbit:
1) 11 drop targets
2) 1 ramp diverter
3) 2 VUKs
4) 4 pop-up beasts
5) left wireform diverter
6) Smaug diverter
7) 2 playfield magnets
8) 4 rollover buttons
9) kickback + up post near kickback
10) captive ball
11) 2 spinners
That's it, but maybe more to reveal?
You might say WOZ also has crystal ball and spinning house and trees...well, Hobbit has LCD book and animated Smaug and barrels, plus sling axes. The value is there.
Quoted from DarkWizard:Alot of those are just playfield elements, not really "toys" Targets, VUKs, Rollovers, Kickback, Spinners. Possilby half in and out of the toy realm might be diverters, magnets and captive balls.
Yes, I agree and stated that. Just saying that WOZ doesn't really have more toys than Hobbit was all.
Quoted from RobT:When did things like drop targets, diverters and VUK's become "toys"?
As soon as Stern started touting them in their flyers! 
Seriously though...a game with zero spinners and a single drop shouldn't be compared to a game with 3 spinners and 20 drops as far as features go. (Even though it's standard features)
Quoted from RobT:Even if you accept that as true, what about feedback on things like artwork? One of the main (positive) changes to Hobbit based on feedback is the PF artwork. Is Lawlor an artist? I doubt he has a ton to say about artwork.
No, but John Youssi is a pinball art expert. He's the artist for Pats game.
Quoted from Goronic:The worg 'troll' toy seems to be a bit too large and it is cutting off his bottom jaw from view - or is that just me?
It's taken from PF level. From a players perspective you can see more.
Quoted from Chambahz:What's happening with the sling axes?
Presently, I'm not a fan.
Opinions?
Supposedly they are going to be smaller...how detailed and what material they will be made of is anyone's guess.
Quoted from DCFAN:I would recommend asking Keith if it has a particular purpose. For those are not involved with the design it does not appear to have a specific purpose yet, but with code it could be very important or we could simply be missing something.
WOZ initially was this way, but I assure you the upper flipper is now a big part of the game for a good player.
I read that it is used for quick shots after the ball leaves the pops or loops to it...such as a captive ball hit.
Quoted from kaneda:Talking smaug is cool but with that beautiful lcd screen showing movie clips of smaug will it feel redundant? Not sure. Same witht the LCD book. Looking over LOTR pin and you have interactive toy, an amazing ring shot and that awesome shot up aragons sword. Just too early to tell if Hobbit will have shots that are this much fun. Exited to see the final version.
Ring was cool, but that sword ramp is one of the clunkiest ramps of all time. Looks cool, but it's a slopfest!
Quoted from kaneda:Clunky how so? Like hard to hit?
No, it doesn't go up and smoothly curve around to the sword. It hits a target and usually the bottom of the ring wraith before plonking into the sword. On mine and any I've played at least...
Quoted from Rarehero:So why did LOTR's production go so smoothly? There was never a ball going thru a ring or hitting the Balrog, yet, they're in the game. The DMD shows a ball going into the tower when you get the Tower Skill Shot. They were also given access to all 3 movies before they were released, and got Frodo and Gimli for custom voices.
Display-wise I'm guessing because Hobbit is using ACTUAL modified movie clips instead of dots that are custom. Would be a ton of work to make that scene from scratch as custom and still look as good as movie clips. JRD is the best pinball voice artist out there...love his work. Glad he is in LOTR. Not sure what we'll get for Hobbit for voice work.
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:Naturally, it must slow the ball down for the ball lock mechanism. Makes sense to me. The flow ramp is the Legolas ramp.
LOTR is my favorite game. Easily on par with MM.
True, but it's just not graceful like say the Spider-Man ramp to venom.
Quoted from John_I:Hard to believe JJP did not bring the Hobbit to Free Play Florida this weekend. The show this weekend is literally 2 minutes from IAAPA too. Hundreds of games, great show, thousands of people and no Hobbit or WOZ for that matter. Guess I'll go back into the show, play some TWD and talk to Gary.
You should've taken the TWO minutes to head over to IAAPA yourself... 
They can't attend EVERY show. IAAPA is the right show to go to over FPF.
Quoted from dannunz:» YouTube video
Cool video posted by Matt. Not much room under there.
And that's why there is less inserts on the playfield.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I think JJP is doing the best they can with the original layout that Balcer did and the very strict licensing requirements. With that being said I cancelled my pre-order for one reason...there are no interesting interactive toys in my opinion. For me to spend $7500-$9k on a pinball machine it needs to have features such as something that picks up the ball, tosses it around, traps it under the playfield, offers a mini playfield (or 2, like WOZ), a central interactive toy with two or more things that interact with the ball, etc. Some people are comparing The Hobbit to a 21st century EM which I tend to agree with but in the end I just can't see spending this type of money on an EM game.
I think The Hobbit will still sell well thanks to the extremely deep ruleset that Keith is cooking up, the games great looking updated artwork, and the interaction the player will have with the LCD. My hope with Pat's game and future JJP games is that we will see the return of more interactive toys. Just the other day I was playing a friends Star Trek LE and I thought to myself "damn, this ship toy is pretty cool, it has a drop target with a magnet and kicker behind that plus the ship moves all over the place". Smaug needed to be on that level of interaction (if not more) to keep me on-board.
LOL...of all the interactive "toys" to compare with, really, the ST ship?? It's a drop target and magnet UNDER a the ship. The ship does nothing with the ball. It's a cool "toy", but it's not interactive.
Quoted from RobT:And yet...it appears to be a *much* cooler toy than what Smaug is going to be.
Maybe, but a tail diverter and claw diverter (maybe on left wireform) would make it cool, added to the synchronized speech.
Quoted from ZenTron:The top right flipper is used to hit 5 drop targets that spell DWARF or can possibly hit some trolls?
i.e. The top right flipper offers no functionality that the bottom two flippers can't perform?
Physically, you are correct, but Keith and Ted's software will make use of it. Pop bumpers to upper flipper to captive ball lights kickback for one.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Ah yes. IM's toys are junk compared to the Vengeance. Did you not ready my list?
Quoted from Hazoff:You're way off. I loved my IM but its not fit to carry STLE's jock strap.
LOL! Fair enough...different strokes.
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:I hadn't really realized the change was so big on the VUKs but I 100% agree with you now that I've seen this again. Those old VUK wireforms look much cooler and seem to flow nicer than what is being shown on the newest model.
The new ones are faster and don't block the view as much.
Quoted from Goronic:not sure they are faster, they drop the ball to the side. the originals fire it toward the front to intersect with the other rail. I haven't timed it, but it looks like it get the flipper at about the same time with either.
Maybe it's the pitch of the white wood? Eh, I'm good with either.
Quoted from VolunteerPin:I switched to a SE day it was announced. In Lord of the Rings movies I knew every person in the Fellowship and they did a good job of making you have an emotional investment in each. I have watched both Hobbit movies a couple of times and basically only know and care about Bilbo and one or two dwarves (evidence here is I can't even remember the main dwarf's name right now). I know Gandalf and Radagast (?spelling) but the main troop of dwarves just doesn't feel the same as the Fellowship.
Oh, yeah, and I KNOW Smaug! He, to me, is a very central figure and I can't complain about having a pin which is full of a redundant bad-a$$ dragon. Hopefully the main Smaug figure will continue to improve.
I know I'm looking forward to this pin a lot.
Yep...Bilbo, Gandalf, Thorin, maybe Radagast and Balin(old dwarf with long white beard?)...after that they're all the same interchangeable dudes. Smaug edition? Yes please. Gold armor, gold Smaug, bonus attract mode, way better cabinet artwork...no brainer really.
Quoted from ls1chris:i think for $200 your going to get a complete mech not just a couple pieces of plastic.
Doubt it. Have you seen how much the WOZ plastic castle walls cost??
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:Im sure the music and sounds will be awesome but the lighting with those bright white leds is gonna take away from the game.
Just wait until you judge...
Quoted from jazc4:Mind saying what made you choose the LE? I'm on the fence about the SE but not close enough to see in person.
I'll tell you why many went Smaug:
1) AWESOME image of Smaug on cabinet
2) nut sack goblin on LE
3) prominence of white Orc on right cab of LE is an odd choice.
4) composition of the LE cab is...off
5) extra Smaug attract mode
6) nice border on Smaug cab ties it together nicely
Quoted from ek77:I don't know TZ upper playfield has always been my favorite toy
Then you will love MG and RAZA! 
Quoted from Concretehardt:OT:Hahahaha really funny if all the JPOP guys get F#cked huh? That's hilarious!! Remember while you 2 are busy slapping each other on the back that if those games never see the light of day some really good pinheads are getting screwed.... Glad you guys think that is so funny.
Sorry for the OT
hmmm...you know I'm in on a JPOP, right? I guess not based on that comment.
Quoted from Goronic:They both look really nice to me, a hard choice but I am going with the SE. I think I will also get the PF protector and the thick decals to make it super shiny and as rugged as possible.
Pictures would be great from JJP but not if they aren't done with the pin yet. The gold trim is hard for me to pass up. Are the rails also gold coated to match?
Yep! SE trounces scrotum chin!!
Quoted from Kcpinballfan:Sounds pretty shady to me if it's true. Right now I like the SE and it's because that's all I have really seen in videos and pics yet I have to make a choice by the 1st so it's go with the one I can physically see or the other in my imagination. Hey Jack here's an idea post full pictures of both versions with a rundown of what exactly we are getting then set a deadline. Right now you are having us make a decision by 3rd party photos and video.
We've seen pics of both! Go onto the website now and take a look. Do you want a badass dragon and sweet two stage gold powder with real metal flake or nut sack goblin and ugly white bad guy with the dull single stage gray?
For me it's an easy choice. But for all the ribbing I'm giving the LE guys it's just in jest. The LE looks really nice too and I'd be happy with it if that was the only choice. I just personally like the SE way better. It's up to the eye of the beholder to decide what they think looks best.
Quoted from Pinchroma:It's a 2 stage as well
I stand corrected...the sparkly gold on the SE will match my sparkly green WOZLE better than the dull finish on the Hobbit LE too.
Quoted from Hazoff:I have such a positive feeling about TH it terms of it being a fantastic pin, ofcourse know one knows anything yet but just a gut feeling of greatness, I hope I'm right.
Dude...Keith on rules, JP on bitchin' LCD animations, and David Thiel on sound/music. Shoot, these guys could make make a Kiss themed pin awesome...but we're talking Hobbit! Awesome theme, great layout (IMO), and these guys = winner.
Quoted from PinballRulez:This was posted on the facebook page of Pinball Heaven.
Doesn't give a total view of the SE model but I do find the gloss way overdone. You cannot actually see what is pictured, but you can see the reflection. Not looking for a mirror on my cabinet.20150113 The Hobbit.jpg 88 KB
I hope to set those exact three games next to each other in about 6 months...except ECWOZ green and Stainless trim MMr. They look great!
Quoted from PinballRulez:Lucky lucky you
Yes, I feel very lucky to be able to do this...I do have to sell two machines between now and then. First world problems. Hmmm...Flintstones, JP, and JM are the most likely "victims".
Quoted from jazc4:When does the last movie go to DVD? Is Jack having to delay release of the game until then? I assume the studio is not going to let him release the game with footage from the last movie until the DVD is released.
Software update will take care of that...but you're right, nothing from movie 3 until blu-ray release.
Quoted from Cheeks:Exactly! I can't see why there isn't room and it would make the area look a lot different.
At very least it could be a barrel top an inch high...
Quoted from B9:I don't think this video from EAG has been posted yet
» YouTube video
Cool...that yellow MMr armor in the background bugs me. Uggghhh. Glad Hobbit gold looks great and not like that yellow color.
Quoted from DCFAN:In the video (post 3909), is that seaside bronze trim or gold?
Whatever it is, it does look better than the MMr gold for Hobbit.
That's the gold...seaside bronze looks almost black and is dull (no sparkle).
Quoted from DarkWizard:I agree about AFM, which is why I edited my post to contain more information. Your looking at the other ridiculous side of the spectrum yes. Which I pointed out, not looking for that either. When I step away from a ball that I just played for 5 minutes and only have 4000 points, yet that same ball on LOTR I step away after 5 minutes and have 13 million points. Even though, yes the scores are relative, I get that... I still step away from the (lets say WOZ) and think... Damn I worked awfully hard for 4000 points.
You'll get used to it quick...I step away from WOZ and know a score of 500,000 is a great game (for me) and it's VERY satisfying. I don't need it to be 5,000,000 or 50,000,000 or higher to get that feeling.
Quoted from Plungemaster:I like millions more because of the sound and call outs are better.
Some circus bloke screaming 100 million!
Or some guy, hey, you just won 10 points.
I like the first one way more.
Easy way around that...LOTR, for example has arguably the best jackpot call outs ever and not once is the actual jackpot score screamed out in number of points. Suuuuuppppeerrrr Jackpot, whooaaahohoho! Actually, I can't think of any game that blurts out a score except BSD Thiiiirrty Million!
Quoted from lllvjr:just a decal
That's weak if so...why put a distracting decal there? I think it's a flasher.
Quoted from PinPatch:The photo is the SE cabinet with the standard, not gold covered, smaug?
Nope, that's the gold Smaug...it's just gold highlights. Looks great! Much better than that all gold prototype they had.
Quoted from DarkWizard:Agreed, it may even look better than the all red one now. If only by just a hair.
Yep...more texture pops with the highlights. The regular/LE one is too one-dimensional red.
Quoted from DarkWizard:My question is, who would post 'Let's hope the design is done" when there is so much that could be improved, or dare I say corrected.
Andy.
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:» YouTube video
They moved on from that idea & put the map in the upper RT corner of the backbox LCD. It shows your progress on your quest through Middle Earth. Go to the 1:15 mark of the video & you can see how it might be implemented. Works for me.
The interface looks awesome...a step up from WOZ, which was already pretty sweet. Great job JP and team.
Quoted from DarkWizard:Beat me to it.
I'de say Red Smaug just shot ahead by a mile. Thank you Jack. Glad I stuck it out on the LE
Yeah, damn I might have to buy the "extra" red Smaug now! It's too gold again on the SE...WTF?
Quoted from PinballRulez:Really weird that you have to protect a 9000 dollar investment against chipping and playfield wear when played huo. If damage happens in such an environment that quick you are facing a major quality problem. Just my opinion.
Agree. It should not be needed in a home environment. I have a lot of plays on my WOZ and the playfield still looks great. No issues. It should be fine without.
Quoted from CaptainNavidad:Well, the next Hobbit prototype reveal is rescheduled for 3-14 after last week's event was postponed due to weather. Here's hoping that I can corner Jack and ferret out some details on the Windlance button and Bag End. More to come...
Who said it was the windlance button??
Quoted from lowepg:I love how this statement from Jack somehow became pinside conjecture over time....
lol...
So to quote you right back,
"No, YOUR wrong."
You're. 
Quoted from fuko:We should be spending our time discussing something else that really matters... like that colors of that damn dress
Gold and white with a very slight bluish hue. Anyone who says black is colorblind!
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:For 8K, pre-orders, and a long wait, you bet your ass I'm a hard judge!
Not a JJP basher......really wanted this to be great.
Wanted?
Quoted from PinballBeerGuy:I am looking forward to checking out TH and WOZ at MGC next month. Never seen a JJP game in person.
Never? You'll be blown away.
Quoted from DarkWizard:Just that Smaug doesn't interact with the ball. Other than that nothing really, its great. Maybe there are some magnets in that area that give the illusion that Smaug is messing with the ball or something, I haven't seen that yet though, it would be an acceptable alternative.
No magnets in that area. Two magnets on outer loop.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:No Smaug interaction with ball, 4 pop-ups impede flow, unfinished/poorly designed Bag End, price and waiting time to delivery.
Also, the constant whiners bashing a game that isn't released yet.
Quoted from BoozeMarlin:After a 100+ posts in this thread saying the same thing you can prolly just go ahead and stop beating the dead horse bud.
NZmHd.gif
Horse? Don't you mean Swamp Donkey?
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:I can tell from watching it that it didn't live up to potential.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Not too hard to decipher, really.
Eh, if you're not feeling it that's fine. Move along. I guess I could tell by watching ST that it is a good layout (though a stale fan) and it's REALLY boring. Then I played it and I found I was right! So maybe that will come true for you and Hobbit?
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Yup, so boring it won the Playmeter's Operators Choice Award. No one must be playing it.
Oh snap!IMG_0039.PNG (Click image to enlarge)
Games people don't want in their homes usually kill on location (like Mustang and ST). Games people buy for their homes don't do well on location because they own it.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:So you're saying nobody wants WOZ in their homes?
Initially nobody had them in their homes so they had to play them in the wild. Try again.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Nothing to try again. You made a statement that games that do well on route aren't popular in the home. WOZ supposedly does miracle business on route, so my comeback to you was that it must not be popular in the home, applying your logic.
You had no comeback, so you posted something that made no sense.
Try again.
No sense? Well, if you can't decipher that mind-boggler then there's no helping you, but let me try. WOZ won the award when JJP had issues and couldn't deliver their machines fast enough (thus people didn't have them at home) and HAD to play it in the wild. People are busy playing WOZ at home now and less so in the wild. Those are facts. This is opinion: You don't care for Hobbit (somehow, even though it isn't out yet) and I think ST blows (because the code is boring).
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Apparently you haven't played it with the recent 1.6 update.
I have not and will definitely try it out. The layout is nice, smooth, and shoots great. If the code is up to snuff it will be a winner! That's all I'm saying about Hobbit. Give it a chance man. You can't tell now.
Quoted from Aurich:Good lord, just drop it, why are we even discussing Star Trek in here? Take it to one of the many Star Trek threads.
Probably because Hobbit updates have been dry for a looong while now. 
Quoted from GreyhoundAggie:I concur. I wanted to really like the game. It is definitely pretty. However it was painfully slow. No zip or excitement in the game at all. The shots seemed to take forever and there was not much flow.
Maybe the flippers were weak or they didn't have it tilted up as high as it should have been.
I will play wait and see and hopefully it comes out great. The code was still prototype on the TPF machine
Always heard the same thing about WOZ at shows...
Quoted from Cheeks:One thing I find interesting is that there's been a lot of criticism about that flipper over the months (years) since we first saw the design and never a comment I've seen from the JJP team. They have jumped in and addressed many of the direct questions/criticisms about other features, but I've never seen this one ever touched by anyone. I would have expected at least some acknowledgement. "We've spent X time shooting for the ramps with this flipper and no signs of damage." or "Don't worry, we'll have some surprises in the rules that take full advantage of this flipper." Never been anything like this that I've seen.
Normally I would defer to the designers and figure they know better than us, so trust their judgement. However in this case, TH has been through so many changes because the original design didn't work, including pulling what used to be a fourth flipper. If the original designer misjudged the fourth flipper, maybe he misjudged the third one too. Given how many other things the community got "righter" than the original design, I fear this extra flipper may be another one of those things.
I'm in on TH and eager to get the final product, however, I fear this may come complete with some of the missteps still intact.
Keith has said there's rules for it...for example, coming from pops to UR flipper to captive ball lights the kickback. There will be some cool rules for it, although it is strange there isn't a shot that can only be hit with it.
Quoted from zr11990:It did have one and to me it looked terrible. It made the PF look washed out and dull. I never played the game because I think it just looks awful. I'm waiting for PL's game.
AFM looks awful too...just saying, you can't judge by what you see. Play one when it comes out and decide then.
Quoted from Sammy31:I don't disagree with you. They can make all the rules they want for that flipper, and they may make it very interesting... But the rules won't change the fact, that the way it is designed right now, that third flipper is going to damage that upper left ramp and most probably that plastic corner of gold near Smaug...If there was more curve to that ramp the shot might make it up smoothly...
It would have been nice to be able to loop that third flipper shot up that left ramp for a nice combo!
Look at the proto machine next time...it has been played and shipped to death all over the place. Is the ramp showing any damage? I'd like to know.
Quoted from Concretehardt:So does this mean Pats machine will be $9000 right out the gate? Jack if you are reading this $9k for Pats game and I'm OUT!
Yep, me too. $7500 was hard to swallow for Hobbit. That's my limit. I'm likely just a HUO/used buyer for Pat's game. I think a lot of people think the same thing. Let's hope the drop in sales won't be attributed to the original theme instead of the inflated price.
Quoted from txstargazer3:I'm going to have this game for years. Jack was committed to delivering a game of high quality. Thank you Jack! The extra wait is well worth it.
Was? Does that mean he's not anymore?
Quoted from mummite:This was a message from Ted Estes on the JJP forums some info on the rules.
The grid in the middle of the screen keeps track of the 31 "Book Modes", each of which is tied to a scene in one of the three movies. Each Book Mode is qualified with one or more of: ELF, MAN, DWARF, Bilbo, Gandalf, Radagast. The lit qualifiers are shown in the center top of the screen. Some modes will only be available after other modes are played. The grid shows the state of each Book Mode: unavailable (dark/greyed out), available (lighter), played (colour w/border). The "lit" Book Mode is highlighted on the grid, and also shown on the book display.
The Beast Hurry-Up rule is separate from Book Modes. Same with spotting Dwarves and Smaug Multiball.
We are auditioning for a Gandalf sound-alike now to do the pinball-specific call outs.
Wow! 31 modes excluding the hurry-ups and Smaug multiball! There should be PLENTY to do...as if there was any doubt.
At least we're talking about the game again...but we have circled back to talking about the third flipper for the umpteenth time. It's a bummer it doesn't have a dedicated shot, sure, but it will make shots that are blocked by pop-ups and the kickback to flipper shot and the combo shots that do things. Hey, is it perfect? No, but it is what it is. If you'd rather not have it don't flip it. Disable that coil, ya wieners!
Quoted from CobraClutch:Are there any videos or pics specifying what the Windlance is and what it does? I keep hearing it mentioned but cant figure it out.
It's just the kickback. There is a post that pops up and holds the ball at the kickback.
Quoted from aobrien5:They weren't allowed to touch video assets in any way
That's not true at all...have you seen the animations? The extra ball animation where Gandalf breaks the rock...that's modified movie video. They just had to get approval.
Quoted from ek77:31 modes may sound fun but will be far to easy or never seen so that it does not matter how they are. AC/DC has 12 modes and inless you are a presoon who reachs wizard mode two of the games on AC/DC what good is haveing 30 modes. I would rather have 12/15 chalanging modes then easy modes or know I will never see half my game.
Really, now you're complaining about too much to do? This is Keith Johnson we're talking about here, not whoever coded ST! I think he has earned a little respect and slack here. Let's play it before judging, ok?
Quoted from taylor34:Uh, shouldn't this be already done? The game was supposed to be shipping in December but got held back due to minor playfield changes, but callouts have nothing to do with that...these should have been recorded months ago. Seems very bizarre to have callout recording auditions 5 months after the game was supposed to initially ship.
I'm guessing it's one of the last things to do...after figuring out the code. You need to know what you want the actor to say and that comes late in the game. Should it have been done already? Yeah, ideally. But it's not really surprising.
Quoted from ek77:Four years one game
More like 4 years:
1) new business
2) new suppliers
3) new platform
4) new hardware
5) new lighting system (GI and Feature lamp)
6) new LCD integration
7) new cabinet design/hardware
8) new base code and framework
9) new game software from ground up
10) new manufacturing line
You could go on and on. 4 years to put out an ambitious forward thinking game is pretty impressive. Spooky did it too but on a much smaller scale and with less innovation. They are no less impressive. Quit trolling and get real dude.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:it's not really a coding thing that's the problem. it's the lack of information on the playfield. Having a pretty display is all fine and good, but not having anything written on the playfield is bad. They are trying to have the display do everything, and nothing on the playfield so they have the freedom to write rules as they please. But it also assumes you know what shots are called or areas of the playfield are called. If pinball veterans can't figure it out, how the hell is someone new suppose to know what's going on?
Like what do you want written? I'm not sure I follow...I don't read the playfield with any game I've played or owned. I look for flashing lights, lit lights, DMD instructions. With JJP games we have LCD and colors to give us info. Give me an example from a game.
Quoted from RobT:Perfect!
Give it to us when she's ready to go!
Yep, JJP learned from Stern that it's best to just release a game and say "here it is" now that they don't need pre-order funding.
Can't a thread stay nice for once? It's mighty suspicious Craz4pin returns the same time as this other assclown...just sayin'.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:What Jack meant was December of 2015.
It was just a typo on his part.
LOL
Quoted from fuko:I don't think that's accurate. Not everyone is paid in full. I still haven't made my last payment yet, and I can't be the only one. Plus WOZ has to be nearing its saturation point. Pretty much everyone that wants one for now has one, and there are enough 2nd hand to go around. Whereas there is strong demand for Hobbit, and that will sell well for some time. Not to mention, they can't announce Lawlor's game until Hobbit is shipping. To say that JJP is better off financially by stalling shipment of the Hobbit is just nonsense. They are losing money every day the game is not rolling out the door
If I were JJP I wouldn't say sh*t about Lawlor's game until Hobbit sales are saturated. That's at least a year away I'd guess.
Quoted from Razorbak86:I got a chance to see something pretty special a few weeks ago while on a family vacation in Britain. This is the original dust-jacket design for The Hobbit (book), illustrated by J.R.R. Tolkien himself back in 1937.
320.JPG (Click image to enlarge)
323.JPG (Click image to enlarge)
This piece was on display in the Bodleian Library’s 'Marks of Genius' exhibition at Oxford University, where Tolkien was a professor until his retirement in 1959.
Just a few feet away in the same exhibit were several other highly recognizable treasures, including the Magna Carta and the Gutenberg Bible!
http://www.tolkiensociety.org/2015/04/tolkien-part-of-new-bodleian-marks-of-genius-exhibition/
http://genius.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/exhibits/browse/dust-jacket-design-for-the-hobbit/
During our trip, we also visited the house where Tolkien lived from 1930 to 1947 (20 Northmoor Road in Oxford). Tolkien wrote The Hobbit and most of The Lord of the Rings in the drawing room of this building, which has been given protected status by the British government.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/oxfordshire/4034751.stm
341.JPG (Click image to enlarge)
340.JPG (Click image to enlarge)
My son (3rd photo above) is a HUGE Tolkien fanboy, so this trip was very special for him. He scheduled the entire itinerary for those two days in Oxford, so we ended up hitting a bunch of items on his Tolkien bucket list.
http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/1053-fifteen-places-tolkien-fans-should-visit-before-they-die.php
My dad has an edition with that dust jacket...maybe it's a first? I'll have to check.
Quoted from Razorbak86:Oh, sweet! Post some pics if he does.
Check out this one on eBay, which was signed by Tolkien, and is listed for US $28,445.00!
ebay.com link » The Hobbit 1937 1st Ed 1st Printing With Dust Jacket Signed By J R R Tolkien
I definitely have to check now! I doubt it's a first...more likely a second.
Quoted from PACMAN:Hobbit update thread with no updates!!!
Time for boobs!review_hobbit1_1.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
Isn't that more of a scrotum?
Quoted from PinballSTAR:Check out a slew of pics from our booth here :
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinballstar-allentown-booth-hobbit-mmr-amh/page/2#post-2420698
Dammit, that bronze does look nice! I'm wavering on my gold pick, but that left side is horrendous IMO. The right side is just ok and the front is good. Eh, gold still wins out but the gap is closer. I wish I could see them in person.
Quoted from beelzeboob:I've seen them both in person now. The gold looks like ass. Sell the gold. Get a bronze. Pocket the $500. Thank me later.
I'd rather have ass than scrotum on my pin, so gold it is! They're the same price for me anyways so no "pocketing of $500" either way. Can't go wrong either way in all honesty.
Quoted from karl:Big thank you to those taking videos and pictures at the show. It really is appreciated.
Seeing probably the first production game in action is a real treat.
My only concern at this moment is that maybe I should not have chosen the gold version. Silver looks better overall. Had it not been for that left side cab decal it would have been an easy choice but I think I will stick with the gold, even if it might be a little dragon overkill
Congrats to all of the JJP team who have been working like crazy to make our game even better.
And who better than Ted and Keith to give us the icing on the cake.
That one in the video isn't silver, it's bronze and looks close to black in reality.
Quoted from JeffA:I would agree if that's a final feature. But, we're still seeing significantly incomplete code at this point. There's been progress, but there's there's still a lot of work to go. Would certainly imagine this is just one example of "placeholder" code. (but could be wrong, I certainly don't have any inside info)
He was joking...relax.
Quoted from pinball_keefer:Because, why give people the potential for 3+ extra balls when you could just as easily give them just 1? Helps bring down the gap between great players and casuals, and in theory reduces abuse.
And it's a setting so you an make it per ball if you wanted...I will on mine.
Quoted from Sammy31:I understand that, each of my machines has something modded. Some don't really need it (like RS) and some do (like AC/DC).
Wrong...RS NEEDS a ColorDMD!
Quoted from jwilson:I found that they were positioned in a way that they didn't impede ramp shots because the ball speed was high enough to compensate.
Yes. A ramp shot is not impeded at all. A slow moving ball does change directions over the roll-overs though...I've cursed the roll-overs a few times after a slow ball changes the trajectory to SDTM.
Quoted from lowepg:Riddle:
"How do you know when Jack is lying about shipping dates?" ***
What different does is make what jack "says"?
We could fill a page with his 99% inaccurate predictions on production. I think its fair to say jack has almost no earthy idea on his own production schedule. The one time I almost believed him was back when he threw in the "contractually obligated" story....
Either he just says what he thinks he has to to keep the pre-order people calm, or
He just hasn't a clue.
Neither one is super attractive, but no one should really be surprised anymore. I'm sure TH pre-order folks have a thick skin about this sort of thing by now.
Nothing he says is believable, "pictures or it didn't happen" when it comes to production Im afraid....
The good news is TH is looking better than it even has....
*** answer: when his lips are moving.
Basically true...can't believe a word about release dates from Jack. You can believe what he says about his product and warranties though. They're well backed.
I suggest just enjoying summer...go outside, enjoy family and friends, imbibe. The game will arrive in time. Pinball's more of a winter thing anyways.
I still play, don't get me wrong...but not on a beautiful sunny day. We have to take advantage of those days in Oregon.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:And you can get it for 3K less.
I can get a KissLE for $4500 delivered? Sign me up. Oh, you can't? Well, I guess you lied.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Didn't say LE, dippy.
Why buy a Kiss Pro when you can get an Avengers or TF "the pin" for $3000 less (and right now)? C'mon, let's at least attempt to talk apples to apples. Not that a Kiss LE is on equal ground with a JJP game, but at least it's in the ballpark more than a Stern Pro. FWIW, Kiss does look awesome...if only theme didn't blow.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Just pointing out that Stern actually ships games....at different price points......something JJP seems to have trouble with
Learn.
It's not their model to release games with different features. Making pinball machines is hard. WOZ gives JJP some leeway in my mind. I have 0 worry that I won't receive my Hobbit.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:61813969.jpg
LOL! That's funny.
Quoted from RobT:Zero worry that you won't receive your Hobbit because you can afford to take the hit if it's not made, or zero worry because you think there is zero chance that it won't be made?
Well, both really.
At least I'm only out $1995 on the JPOOP deal. I'm glad I had the sense to cease payments to him long ago and ask for a refund. Never got or getting it but it could have been worse. It was a risk that failed. No one to blame but myself (and JPOOP). Live and learn. No more pre-orders!
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:I find the lack of updates completely unprofessional at this point. But if you have no good news to report, then I can see why they've gone silent. Still no excuse.
He's going to need to start producing these Hobbits by July 1st, or else I may actually consider pulling out. That's something I never even thought would happen, because I love JJPs cutting edge tech & Keith Johnson's coding. The more time that goes by, on top of the realization that I won't receive my pin for at least another 6 months after production starts, is almost too much to ask. I preordered thinking "they can't possibly have the same types of production delays on the 2nd machine as they did on the first", yet here we are.
There's just so many great pins out there that I could buy & be playing right now, instead of letting my money sit for nearly a whole additional year. I've learned a lot about this hobby since I first put down that pre-order cash, and I almost have to pinch myself when I realize I'm dropping 8K+ on a pin that I haven't even played yet. And here's more food for thought......What if the rumors are true that Stern's next Ritchie/Lyman title release is Game of Thrones in the Fall? What if Hobbit production really is delayed for another 3 months from now? We could potentially have the top 2 pin manufactures both producing a Fantasy/Dragon themed pin with their best design/programming teams, on the market at the same time, at the same price point, competing for the same dollars. Interesting to say the least, and a situation I'm sure JJP would like to avoid.
You should honestly bail now and buy a standard when they hit the distributors right away...or LE/SE...same deal. Pre-ordering is for suckers. You can "line-jump" easy by buying when they ship. Might cost a bit more, but you'll get it a year earlier.
Quoted from PinballRulez:You are out then?
If it wasn't for the price difference, 2000 euros price increase for the SE model, your statement would make sense.
No...I'm in, like you because of price. Forgot that caveat. I got it for $7500 shipped. I know people will walk up and get a Hobbit before me though. If you got in late for the same as whatever it costs now you should bail.
Quoted from ledge:well yeah its not too much to ask really. give your loyal /and patient customers something back.
EDIT: what are reasons, people are preferring the smaug SE over the LE ? i mean... im not seeing it.
unless the dinero difference is not a lot between the two ? i actually prefer the cab artwork on the LE. personally.
I think the cab art of the LE is horrendous personally. The smaug Art is 1000x better. I do like the seaside bronze trim better than the gold, but not enough to overlook the amateur collage of art on the LE. Plus, with the SE you get an extra attract mode thrown in (not a big deal at all). Plus, it's the same price for me so it's a no-brainer to go SE.
Edit: if you like the LE art better it's a no-brainer for you. Go LE.
Quoted from thewool:SE looks tacky in gold with the same artwork overkilled 3 times. LE is earthy and manboobalicious.
You forgot scrotumalicious. LOL! Plus, you can see Gandalf, what 4-5 times at once!? Great composition! 
Quoted from Goronic:Guys, I am really struggling with SE vs LE ... I just don't know. I really wish I had a chance to see them side by side in person.
SE easily...I mean look at the art on the LE cabinet! It's a mess! If you are sandwiching this game between machines and hiding the art then it's all about the trim. I'd give the LE a very slight edge on trim color.
I wish I could see them in person. 
In pics both trims look very good. Is one really much better in person?
Quoted from DCFAN:I doubt the Hobbit SE gold paint would look good next to a brass plated LOTR.
It would look MUCH better than that crap brass job on LOTRLE. Brass is tacky anyways. Too shiny. Would look great next to standard black LOTR. The cab graphics have gold accents...that's what he meant.
Quoted from RobT:Plus you can actually own and play LOTR this year.
...with finished code!
Quoted from epthegeek:This is still one of my favorite subtle Internet jokes: http://picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes.tumblr.com
Didnt Stern try QR codes for a while? They don't work!
Quoted from Aurich:I heard, but cannot verify, that when Thiel took Hobbit that Stern shut their door to him.
That would be a shame and a dumb move by Stern if true. The guy (like CG) is fantastically talented and made/makes incredible sound/music packages. Tron is one of the best sound/music packages ever made.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Depends what the conditions of his contract where. He may have been an employee who left. He may have had an exclusive contract gig with Stern, that would terminate if he worked for a competitor.
I'm sure he knew what he was doing when he left for JJP. Nothing sinister here.
Didnt imply anything sinister happened.
Just saying that if Stern "shut the door" on Thiel working for them in the future because he's working for JJP now, then that's sad because he is a major talent.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:And I was saying he may have left on his on volition.
Yes, i agree. That is more likely than not actually.
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:Most likely cause, like the rest of us when we change jobs; money.
Quickest way to get raises...keep getting new jobs.
Quoted from cscmtp:SE for me. I don't like looking at any nutsack other than my own.
I don't even like looking at my own!
Quoted from jarjarisgod:Jack will then release a VE a couple years later at the new price point a la Gary.
You mean ala himself as with Ruby Red.
Quoted from BillySastard:Ive thought long and hard about buying someone's spot for $7,500, but I'd rather not deal with the stress of delays and just pay $8,000 for a standard when available. If TH is anything like WOZ, standards will be available sooner than a lot of the LE's.
Look closely at the standard machines specs...its missing some items. Check the matrix on JJPs website.
Quoted from kaneda:Understand your frustration. I work in PR and honestly, there's nothing Jack can do that would really "ease" the pain. Here's why. From what I've seen following pinball over the past year and a half is this: Delays happen. It's not wise to put any date in people's head unless the games is ready for the line. That's how Stern does it. People were expecting this game in December and clearly that didn't happen. Jack and others have said it will ship soon and the latest projection is sometime in August/September. It's just a case where you have to be patient. It's not like you won't get a pin. If I were in on a Hobbit I would just be patient and wait for an update. I'd also tell myself that it may take months to get that update. I'd also sleep at night knowing JJP will deliver the game. Sometimes hoping JJP acting differently just makes people angry. Have to shift expectations since JJP will always be JJP.
Wow, a nice thoughful post i agree with...what day is it??
Quoted from PinballSTAR:There was no stick available so I beat the living shit out of him with a hammer. Lol... As usual Jack was more than happy to play along.
The mood at JJP is one of excitement !!! Good things are coming.
Pics and videos to follow...
Joe
PinballSTAR Amusements
[email protected]image.jpg
What the h e double hockey sticks is that playfield in the background? Is that Pat's game???
Edit: False alarm. It's just WOZ on its side. 
Quoted from thedarkknight77:Did anyone notice the clear is cracking in the picture of the outlane. Look at the edge where the switch pops through. Seems like thick clear coat is not always a good thing.
Most WOZ switches on the munchkin land mini PF look like this too. There is lateral stress on the switch which makes the switch hit the edge of the slot and chip the clear. Not a big deal on WOZ as its behind the house, but this one is visible.
Quoted from SilverBallz:It's not negative, i was just pointing out that there are no updates. lately, no news is good news when it comes to JJP.
And I was just quoting your hero, Jack, in the reply to Keith. I could never come up with something so negative and mean.
With your JJP hating past its easy to take your (useless and obvious) statement about "no updates" as trolling. At least we get some cool car pics in this thread. The Tesla is very cool, but too expensive for what it is. Cool tech though. Supposedly big updates for Hobbit are coming very soon. This thread will blow up then.
Quoted from Aurich:I own 3 Stern games. I wouldn't trade a single one of them, even, for any flavor of WOZ. Limited, Ruby, whatever. In my eyes it hasn't surpassed Stern. It's a cool game, and different, and innovative. But as far as "THE GAME" goes? Not for me.
I wish JJP the best, truly. Do I want Alien to outsell anything anyone else has ever done? Sure! But it's a one-off for me. I'm not a Heighway employee, and my wish is for all of pinball to do well, as a fan and collector.
I haven't played The Hobbit since Expo. But I wouldn't trade any of my Sterns for it either. And I don't plan on buying one, too expensive.
Here's where I do get partisan: Heighway is making widebody games too. With an LCD screen. And full RGB lighting (more than Hobbit has if I understand things correctly). And they're nearly a good couple grand less than JJP is charging. I just can't justify the price Jack wants to charge. I feel the same way about TBL, and I think it's going to be awesome. But even though I could afford it if I wanted I just refuse to pay these $8k+ prices.
So for me if that's what it take to make the game you want? Hey, hope someone else is buying. Won't be me. I spent a little north of $7k for my METLE, and I hope to make that my all time highest expensive game.
Well, I own WOZ and wouldn't trade it for any game out there. In my eyes, no other game is close to it. That being said, I'm not paying 8 or 9 k for it. I'm in with Hobbit at $7.5 shipped, that's the limit de me. I think, sadly, that means I'm out on Lawlors game.
By the way...the Heighway cabinet design still looks cheap as shit to me. Maybe it's the art on FT, I dunno, but it looks that way to me. They have to fix that somehow.
Quoted from Damonator:I have a mint RFM kit for sale right now in fact!
I think Pinball Circus will be a fun novelty - but not even remotely in the same league as The Hobbit. I would only be interested if I had a lot of room to spare...but I don't.
Is it mint because nobody bothered to do the swap before?
Quoted from robotron:only seven downvotes? btw woz is a ladies game
No, there are nine.
Ladies? I love ladies!
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I think the WOZ custom call outs are actually done very well. The wicked witch is spot on and Dorthy is pretty good too.
I agree. The only one that's not that great is the lion, but even that one isn't distracting.
Edit: Apparently, that guy had some WOZ issues, feels he got "boondoggled", and is bitter...but why pick on the voices? Those are pretty good!
Maybe he loves the movie so much it's actual voices or nothing for him?
Quoted from Plungemaster:If you like the theme and lay out on the hobbit you will love this pin, i am pretty sure about that.
I like everything but the layout. Way to simplistic for me. Both sides same shots, and Smaug doing nothing, cant get passed that to be a buyer in the future. A bit gutted about it, cause this should have been my dreampin.
Will never please everyone... maybe Pat's game will hit all your buttons.
Quoted from mesmashu:Game of Thrones here I come!
...also likely $9k.
$7500 for Hobbit is looking like a deal now. 
Quoted from cal50:Is it really a deal if you cant get it today, tomorrow or ( insert number of months here ) ?
Not sure how anything can be a "deal" when it does not exist and not manufactured yet.
Most people will wait a reasonable amount of time for something they want but kicking that wait out to years is a stretch.
I guess my "DOH" emoticon didn't register as sarcasm..,
Quoted from beelzeboob:So...the music sucks, though. Right?
The music is the best thing about Tron.
Quoted from Goronic:I am okay with that, as now it will be in a whole floor of the house dedicated to pins, arcade machines, and a large movie/tv room!
I recommend ditching the arcade machines and movie/tv room and utilizing that space for more pins!
Quoted from Aurich:Heighway just shipped the first customer Full Throttle. Being unboxed today.
It was on the show floor at Expo last year with Hobbit, both prototype games. Both totally playable, but not really done, and with a lot of tweaks in their futures.
My point isn't to say that Full Throttle "won". It wasn't a race really. Rather I'm saying look, there was the game, playable, and this is how long it took to ship it.
Now that I'm working on a game myself I'm really very sympathetic to how long this shit takes. You can think you know it, but when you're inside you just see how many crazy things can go wrong, and how many of them are totally out of your control, even if you're being careful, planning, and doing things the "right way".
I'm not big on cutting Jack slack, I think he's been less than truthful with people here, and constantly shits on this community. And who knows if he's been totally broke before this cash infusion. But there are good people working on this game. Passionate, long-time supporters of pinball, who do awesome work. I'm sure they'll come through.
So has it been 3 years from initial announcement to shipping for FT? I think so...that's what WOZ took, right? Sounds about right. Hobbit is 3 years since announcement this December or is it 4? Hopefully FT manufacturing isn't a trickle like WOZ was in the early months. Still, nice to see another manufacturer with success and not another Predator or JPOP.
Quoted from Aurich:Jesus f'n christ, you try and say something positive about The Hobbit and all people can do is turn it into a pissing contest. This doesn't have to be about my brand dick is better than your brand dick. I like all pinball. If JJP or Stern or anyone else makes a great game then it's a good thing. I'm super excited for Rob Zombie from Spooky too, can't wait to see the reveal.
Buy the Hobbit, I hope it ships soon, and that's it a great game. I hope it's so good that I'm sorry it's too expensive for me. I don't actually think that will be the case based on what I played at Expo, but I'd be happy to be wrong. JP did a killer job redoing the playfield, I told him so. Thiel is awesome. Keith is the man. Jack is an ass at times, and I don't like how he treats this forum, but I truly believe he wants to make great pinballs, and I do respect that.
But your game can be good with just that. If you don't want Full Throttle then don't buy it. I only brought it up to say it took this long to get to shipping, it's not just a JJP problem. It was supposed to be a "we're all in this together" comment, and of course people have to twist it.
Those photos aren't even from the final Full Throttle game. Might as well post the old Hobbit playfield while you're at it.
Hmmm, now you know how Jack feels about this forum.
The movies have nothing to do with how good this pinball machine will be. The Shadow stunk, but it's an awesome machine. The Hobbit is a great theme regardless of how good or bad the movies are. The scenes are there to make great modes. All by memory of seeing these things once in the theaters:
From the first movie-
1) gather the dwarves and galdalf, sign the contract - "I'm going on an adventure!"
2) Troll scene with Gandalf's sunlight rescue as "winning" the mode.
3) Radagast saves the hedgehog looking animal in the forest
4) Escape the Orcs / Radagast rides rabbits / enter Elf sanctuary to meet Elrond to win.
5) Escape the goblins/kill the goblin king with the dwarves / Gandalf (starts with white splash of LEDs coinciding with Gandalf's entrance)
6) Gollum/Smeagal riddles in the dark
7) Escape the goblin caves as Bilbo
8) Save Thorin from Azog and escape burning trees on Eagles.
From the second movie-
1) Spider attack / Bilbo's rescue / Elves entrance
2) escape the elves / barrel scene
3) Save Kili from poisoned wound (maybe happened in 3rd movie...can't remember)
4) Find hidden entrance to mountain.
5) Gandalf battles Sauron (Cool usage of White/Dark light with the LEDs could be used here)
6) Meet Smaug and collect Arkenstone.
7) Legolas fights Bolg.
8) Sequence fighting Smaug and covering him with gold to win mode.
From the third movie-
1) Fight and kill Smaug as he destroys the town (sweeping fire LED effects)
2) Rescue Gandalf with Saruman, Elrond, and Lady Galadriel kicking ass.
3) Many big battles to play through
4) Legolas vs Bolg part two
5) Avenge Fili and Kili with Azog vs Thorin of course.
Funny, I remember the least about the most recent movie...it was one big battle a lot of the way I guess. LOL!
Quoted from Aurich:Yes, because what was wrong with Hobbit films is they weren't long enough!
I'd rather see a version that trimmed all the fat and made a more compelling and fast moving story. The Rankin and Bass animated version was like 1/6th the length, and managed to hit all the important story notes.
To be fair...they added a TON to the movies that wasn't in the book. Azog, the whole necromancer/Sauron thing, Radagast, Orcs hunting them the entire time, Tauriel/Legolas, dwarf/Elf love story, fighting Smaug before he heads to Laketown, extended battles, extended Bard scenes with kids, how Smaug was killed...all not in the Hobbit book. It's not like they just made it longer, I mean at least they added story. I guess you're just saying trim all that? Some of those scenes were really cool and I'm glad they were there (all of Gandalf's stuff especially...in the book he just disappears for a while), but a lot could have been axed. Let's see what Keith cooks up for the modes/rules though. We'll probably all be glad there is so much there to use.
Quoted from spfxted:I know I'm in the minority here, but I enjoyed the Hobbit films a little more than the Lord of the Rings films. Granted, I'm more into sci-fi, but that's how I feel.
You may be alone there, but i also enjoyed The Hobbit movies a lot. They were fun. I thought the LOTR movies were better, but way more serious in tone though.
Quoted from solarvalue:Just listened to a talk by Joe Balcer from the recent UK pinball party. Not great audio quality, but he does talk a little bit about the Hobbit towards the end and in the questions. It explains quite a bit about the original design: why he included the upper 2 flippers, what Smaug was originally going to be like, etc.
The talk is available on the Pinball News website:
http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/ukpinballparty2015/index.html
Please post why there was 2 upper flippers and what Smaug was originally supposed to be...don't have the time to listen.
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:Good point. That was before my time - It also didn't go well if I understand. I guess JJP merely resurrected the idea then.
Us pinheads never do learn...
It was delayed, but it ended VERY well for the buyers. They got their machines which ballooned in value substantially. Best pre-order ever probably.
Quoted from pindome:Does anyone know or have a reasonable guess as to how many Smaug SE's will be built vs the 1,500 LE's?
Maybe 750 to 1000? Less than the LE for sure.
Quoted from BC_Gambit:Except for a distributor like say, oh, ... pinballsales.com (owned primarily/wholly by Jack?) could have put in an order for an arbitrarily large order of Smaug Editions, and can decide how many JJP fills.
Is that number 10K, 5K , ? Who knows. I am not aware of Jack specifically saying/promising he did not to this, so doing so would match the words of his agreement (e.g. orders before XX date can be Smaug LE's...).
Considering the WoZ LE variants, who would be surprised by this? I don't know for sure and am open to clarification by JJP/pinballsales.com, but they certainly don't owe a clarification. This should have been a known possibility from day 1 of the Smaug announcement.
Thats possible, but i though they said it was less than 1500? Eh, either way...a ton of both types.
Quoted from lowepg:Remind me again what LE stands for?
Limited doesnt mean rare...hell, there are 10s of thousands of limited toyotas every year. Just means it's capped at a number. Can be 100000 and still be an LE.
Quoted from jfh:Big setback for JJP if Pat's game is NOT revealed at Expo.
The theme and style differences between TH and PLJJP are going to be enough that few are going to drop TH to go in on Pat's game instead, so there's really no reason to hold off the reveal. If JJP can show a game that's pretty much ready to go right after Hobbit, that's going to quiet the naysayers.
The reveal was supposed to be late summer, then Expo. Pushing it out further doesn't do anything but give people a reason to push the "sky is falling at JJP" agenda.
^One of the dumbests posts I've seen. Of course it would hurt Hobbit! Why release anything about JJP3 until Hobbit is well under way and shipping in substantial numbers? Nothing will be revealed at expo, just like Stern won't say what's after GoT.
Quoted from cal50:Stern actually releases / produces games so you can see and purchase the sum of their efforts.
They do not need to say whats next becasue its in the pipeline and happens on a regular basis.
JJP, not so much.
If JJP releases anything on Lawlor's games the sharks will pounce and pronounce Hobbit dead as they have with the announcement of GoT. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I wouldn't release a single tidbit on Lawlor's game until it's ready to ship (like Stern does). Pre-orders are dead, so why reveal anything until then?
Quoted from iceman44:It seems like Stern just announced KISS yesterday. And today we now have GOT. They don't seem to be too worried about cannibalizing their sales from title to title. What they are doing is cannibalizing current and future JJP sales.
JJP better get TH out today and announce Lawlor tomorrow.
Yes, get Hobbit out THEN announce/show Lawlor's game.
Quoted from centerflank:Why not show Lawlor stuff? Show that JJP is looking towards the future and will be around for awhile.
Who in their right mind would dump their Hobbit order to get on a wait list for JJP3 that might be another 2-3 years down the road.
Because it would be old news by the time it's released...kind of like Hobbit is. 
Really, doesn't it feel like it's been out for a while already?
Quoted from Rarehero:That's like saying Hobbit pronounces WOZ dead. They're still building/selling WOZ. It's important for a factory to have multiple titles on the line so the company has multiple products to sell. Does GoT make Kiss, TWD, ST, Mustang, etc dead? Nope. Stern will build all to meet demand from customers. More choices = more customers. You can't force someone to want Hobbit. They either do or don't. If they don't, maybe they'll want a WOZ or Lawlor-Mystery-Game instead.
I see your point, but GoT might just kill other Stern sales...depends how cool it is, and if JJP 3 was coming out in a few months I would agree with you. When do you think JJP 3 will be made? Maybe a year from now? Too soon to announce anything.
Quoted from cal50:Sharks ?
You mean open discussion on a public forum ???
It all comes back to credibility and people listening to what JJP is saying and watch what they are doing or not doing.
When the two do not match a persons credibility drops and people loose interest or belief in what they are saying.
Its pointless to make claims about future games ( any ) when people waited years for game #1 and waiting years for #2.
I would actually like to see them make the frigging game because the theme is more appealing to me than WOZ but the endless delay and silence is hurting them. Forget Stern, JJP is JJP's biggest problem right now.
Its all idle chit chat in the meantime.
Yes, I meant sharks. Agree with everything else. JJP needs to s*** or get off the pot at this point. It's either going to happen now or never.
Quoted from Cheeks:Wow...i really HATE HATE HATE the new armor. I thought the old colors looked really cool, and Alex certainly pumped them up enough. Various applications have had this kind of crinkle finish on them for forever and I've always thought it looked tacky.
Way to downgrade at the last minute!
COMPLETELY disagree with you. The hammered look is awesome...especially improved the gold one! The powder color was the one thing LE had over SE, now I can truly say the SE is better all around! Thank you for the last minute upgrade!!
Quoted from KingPinGames:great thing is that you can order a standard edition with stainless trim and not lose any of the toys/layout features.
Not exactly...the standard version is missing a few items like the axe slings and a pop-bumper barrel. Check that matrix they had released.
Quoted from Aurich:The axe slings not being there is a feature, not something missing.
LOL, possibly...I'm waiting for the final machine to be sure. If they blow the modders will remedy them. They don't bug me at present though and that's worst case.
Quoted from Dalbok:I haven't been 100% sure either which is why I switched to the SE. Since the SE had the limited window I decided to pick that with the thinking that if I really wanted to later I could switch back to the LE. It was the decision that kept the most options on the table but you have a fair point nonetheless.
Yep...you chose wisely. Easier to switch to an LE later vs switching to an SE.
Quoted from dannunz:It is all based on what date you ordered your WOZLE.
Wanna bet?
Quoted from Skyemont:All I know is I was told I would have my Hobbit 100% by 12-31-15. We shall see.
LOL!! I was told I would have my WOZ 100% many times and it was delay after delay. Don't believe anything you hear until it arrives at your house. I really like JJP and will wait for my Hobbit, but their estimates are useless. Don't get your hopes up.
Quoted from fnosm:Such a beautiful playfield. Well done JJP!
Curious minds want to know:
Any ideas how the far left ramp that empties into the kickback gets a ball loaded on it?
Lastly it is interesting that the D&W droptargets share the Dwarf Balin where all of the other drop targets get their own dwarf.
Balin has two because there is a VUK hole behind it. All other dwarfs are represented by a standup target behind the drop. Balin is represented by the hole. It's still one shot/target per dwarf.
Quoted from Sammy31:I believe those are just some sort of light shields...extra lights are always good!
Exactly what these are...there are light strips that shine through slots in the front of the apron. This bracket shields them from the players view.
Quoted from cal50:If you think for a millisecond that anyone in business (any product) is not concerned about making money you are sadly mistaken.
The bottom line guarantees continued existence. If not the business goes away.
True. The thing is, JJP HAS to be better than Stern. If not then what's the point? People would just stick with the bigger, faster company pumping out machines. If JJP was equal in quality to Stern they would be dead.
Quoted from PinMonk:Have you done it? I have on The Shadow. No grooves on black powder coated ramps after like 10 years. Seems like speculation of people who haven't done it, based on my first-hand experience with actually doing it. Especially when we're talking non-routed pins for the most part.
Got any pics?
Quoted from Damonator:Rad-Cal video from JJP just dropped. I really wasn't even considering getting these...until I just saw them. Wow.
» YouTube video
Isnt that a really old video?
Quoted from Damonator:It was just published today
It was, but i saw it like a year ago...
Quoted from wtatumjr:Jen did the best she could to keep things in order. Of course there are those that came late to the game and got their game before others but that had to do with dealer allocations. I think JJP did a pretty good job even though I was bumped to near last which didn't please me a heck of a lot. This time I bought my Hobbit from a dealer rather late and I expect I'll be in front of others that bought direct from JJP. I'm not so sure how fair that is but I won't be buying direct again.
That's a nice story, but not quite right. There were no distributors early on and there was also problems with the LE cabinet making process. That had issues so the Standard machines were made in place for a long while and then continued to run for new money to keep rolling in.
Quoted from DaveH:That doesn't sound right to me. The LE cabinet and the cab the original standards were using was the same cabinet. For the initial runs everything had the clearcoat cabinet. So I don't think this is a plausible explanation.
Well, that was the story after they switched to the decaled standard machines...before that, the distributor swapping allotments of LEs to Standards was the story.
Quoted from wtatumjr:I'm
I can see that happening - you don't want to close down the plant when you could making perfectly good standards. I'd done the same as Jack (until the LE cabinets came in). It was kind of nice to get my game near the last as far as light boards go - didn't seem to help for some other stuff.
Absolutely. I would have done the same too. It still sucked waiting.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Anybody else wondering where that ladder goes? Can't get image out of my head.... For what dastardly purpose would there be a 20 foot ladder set up but no worker in sight? I'll bet it is not properly secured in the soft sand either. No wonder pic was flagged as unsafe.
What ladder??
Quoted from DaveH:Then why is this the first time I've heard you say this? That was a long time ago. When did the distributor buy them? Why didn't you say it when you got them?
A lot have people have called Jack a liar. This one sounds convenient now because you are saying everyone involved (Jack and the distrib) are now in cahoots. If you can shine some light on their concpiricy, shine away. Otherwise you may be the one lying.
He has no reason to lie about this and we all know it's true anyways. Standards definitely jumped the LE line and the distributors swapping versions story was horseshit. It is what it is.
Quoted from RCA1:I'm not in, but wondering when was day 1 for pre-orders?
Hope you guys see games soon.
Late November 2012 I believe.
Quoted from yonizzell:I have a THSE on order that was paid in full October 2014. Jen says I should have it by March- April. I'm tired of waiting and I'm considering getting out ..
October 2014? Zero chance of getting that by April I'd say. I assume anyways because you asked Jen you went through pinball sales. You're 11 months behind day one orders. You may as well bail now.
Quoted from PinballRulez:Day one orders were taken in November 2012...........
Was it? Well, then 23 months!
Quoted from jlm33:More like 3x12+2 = 38 ?
You're fast...I meant he was that long after in his order. By April?? Bwaaaaahahahshaha!
Quoted from fatality83:that would essentially be like you prepay to be the last to get your pinball machine. Doesn't seem right at all
That's precisely what happened...then Ruby Red's came out years later and were built and delivered BEFORE the LEs were! You can't make it up.
Quoted from denmark71:I thought the LE and the SE were getting ramps/habitrails to match the armor. Did that get dropped?
54bdc71ca8e77edbd0863b372da5fd0aca2924f2_(resized).jpg2805bd85cb61fbd1d099dd236854970096a5b1a1_(resized).jpg
Yeah, it must be engineering samples.
Quoted from vicjw66:Seems like air balls could get trapped around the SMAUG area pretty easily. Might need a plastic shield like POTC.
Based on what? Your experience with the tens of thousands of plays at the shows over the last few years or just pure wild speculation?
Quoted from happilymarried05:SMH, so all the photos we keep seeing are the exact same machines, nothing more has been done since the first post of this "group" of pins
This is a copy and paste i got from someone from a company. I will not disclose who but it is :
"they are in the process of producing a few test prototypes but that is it. The actual production has not started."
UH MAZE ING
This info obtained today 1/15/16
It's amazing that you're surprised by this.
Quoted from Concretehardt:I think it would boost everyone's confidence if Jack would post a pic showing a line of games being built, not so much to show a line of cabinets and games in process but to show a full crew of workers building games. The one thing that most all of the JJP factory pics lack isn't cabinets and parts, its the people working on them... The factory looks deserted
It's always been that way...even with WOZ in full swing. JJP can't hire a ton of people like Stern.
Quoted from Sammy31:no key fob?....what a jip
Nothing except a manual with MMr. Talk about a jip!
Quoted from vicjw66:I believe the term is gyp, short for gypsy.
Is it? Well, learned something new.
Quoted from Eskaybee:There's a Feast Frenzy mode slated to be in the game?
Yes, after you collect all the dwarves it will start or be available to start. There's a video somewhere of the animations. JJP facebook has it.
Quoted from Eskaybee:Dang, so 30+ modes of linear progression? That's worse than Star Trek. Not complaining, STLE is one of my favorites, but Hopefully it all meshes together well.
Well, not like RS where you always start in one place and are limited in which modes you can start. You can start any mode, but you can't have two running at once. There is plenty of other things to "stack" though.
Quoted from halpain24:So after a long, long, long day, I finally got home and got to unbox, setup, and play. I only have gotten to play a couple of games and have to get to bed for work tomorrow, but will put in plenty tomorrow evening. Here's a couple issues out of box. I noticed a plastic screw in the bottom of the cab and figured out its one of the screws to level the drop targets. I look further and notice 4 are laying in the cab and not in their places. Then I noticed the rest don't have their lock nut tightened at all. So I set all the drop targets. I know this is minor but still caught me a little off guard. Only other thing is I notice the "C" Lock button doesnt register well. It only seems to register from behind when hit perfect. Anyone else notice this type of thing? the others register from every direction pretty easily. Anyway, nothing major still just thought I'd check. Aside from that everything is great, and I'm sure that can be resolved.
The rollover button just needs a little adjustment. Easy to do.
I like how fire shows on the book when Smaug blows fire in Smaug multiball and water splashes on it when the ball is in the pops. Nice touch!
Quoted from B9:17,000+ Super Spinner Award
» YouTube video
Pfft...17,000 is peanuts. Crank that up to 35k with seconds to spare to cash in at the captive ball.
I have a request for Keith/Ted: please add a "dirty pool / you cheat dr jones" quote when you sneak a ball into the Balin hole with the drops up. I've banked it in off the left loop ball guide a couple times and bounced it in.
Quoted from RobT:On 1.21 we now have the "daily high score."
Is there a way to disable this in settings? I don't care for this at all. RS has this (as do other pins) but I hate having the screen come up for your initials....only to be told that it's just for the day.
I just AAA the initials real quick
Quoted from markmon:I didn't think Keith had to put much of his time into dialed in. Lawlor usually has his own software team (which is why Lawlor rules are so similar) .
Exactly. Ted Estes is the Dialed In lead. I'm sure Keith is involved, but he isn't the lead of that game.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:It could be different this time around, especially with Keith being a guru with the JJP platform after coding WOZ and TH. I think Keith is a huge reason why WOZ, TH, TSPP, and LOTR are so much fun play and I hope he is helping with code work for Dialed In. I honestly think Keith is the best pinball programmer, the "Yoda" (lol), for telling a themes codes through code with deep, unique and engaging quest based rulesets.
Keith's games are mostly marathon type games (TSPP, LOTR, TH, WPT). After a game or two of Hobbit I'm done with it for the night...it's at least a 30 minute game. Forget about playing a 2+ player game. It's good to have some variety in the game room. IM fits the bill for a quick game.
Quoted from paynemic:Hey all,
My hobbit has two dwarf drops that
Won't reset up! I briefly looked at wiring, etc to make sure it wasn't something easy. I'm not quite sure where to start. It will pop them down. But can't go back up
Check all your connectors...I bet one is loose on one side. My ELF targets were like that when I got the game.
Quoted from PinMonk:31 "totally" different modes might be stretching it. There's a lot of sameness to many of the modes.
Wonder what the "Super wizard mode" is?
They are all pretty darn unique...except the two "one-shot" hurry up modes (The One Ring and A Thief in the Night). Where is the "sameness"?
Quoted from PinMonk:(This is not based on 1.90, which I haven't played much yet)
Almost 40% of the modes fall into three general categories: Shoot Drop Target(s), Shoot Ramp(s), and Bash Popup(s). Some have like one shot on top of the basic thing, but that's about it (if even that).
Shoot Drop Targets
------------------
Roast Mutton
Dol Guldur
Riddles in the Dark
Shoot Ramp(s)
------------------
The Bait
Moon Ruins
One Ring
Resurgence of Sauron
Demise of Bolg
Bash Popup
------------------
Radagast the Brown
Flies and Spiders
Interrogation
Duel in Lake Town
There are some really cool, unique modes, but too many of the above feel like filler, especially since I can't watch the video while shooting the game.
Well, all modes are shoot shots. *shrug*
They all have variations:
Roast Mutton: bank of drops you have to hit changes.
Dol Goldur: 3 drop in each bank up. Knock down all targets in one bank and scoring increases for remaining.
Riddles in the Dark: Each "riddle's" answer is hidden in either a drop or a main shot depending on whether it's Bilbo's or Gollum's riddle. If the answer is behind a drop, hitting the main shots removes wrong answers. If the answer is a shot, hitting drops removes wrong shots.
The Bait: Goal is to hit right loop and right ramp, but the rub is that they're blocked by the orc and warg. Hitting the left ramp drops the orc temporarily so you can hit the right ramp. Hitting the left loop drops the warg temporarily so you can hit the right loop. It's a very tough mode.
Moon Runes: hit Ramps, but when you hit the ramp the diverter drops for the "U" turn back at you. It's unique.
One Ring: Boring one shot hurry-up of the right ramp, but nice one to easily collect an arrowhead.
Resurgence of Sauron: Hit left ramp 6 times...but, all switches increase value of shot so it's best to rip spinners and hit pop bumpers to crank up the value before cashing in. A pretty nice risk/reward mode.
Demise of Bolg: This one is fuzzy to me, but I think you must AVOID everything but the ramps...and I think the goblin/orc pop up as shots too.
There is only one simple "bash popup" mode and that is Interrogation (bash orc). The others alternate shots and drops in with it.
I think they are pretty unique...of course with 31 of them some will be somewhat similar. Still, even those feel different with unique music, effects, and sound (stingers). This is all my opinion of course.
Quoted from PinMonk:I guess my problem with the ones I listed as being "same-y" is they are not as involved as the other modes that lead you from shot to shot instead of hit this x times over and over (Sauron spam the left ramp one is ridiculous), or hit this, then that, repeat. They just feel lazy and in need of fleshing out.
Seriously?? That Sauron one is actually one of my favorites!! Like I said, it's all about maxing switch hits before cashing in and strategically extending the timer at the same time. The lighting and sound is excellent in that one too. Different strokes...
Quoted from PinMonk:I love the lightshow on that one, but bashing the left ramp repeatedly is just brain-dead. Why not left-right alternating to finish the mode or something else to add a little spice to the mode?
You're doing it wrong if you're just spamming the ramp over and over.
Edit: Beat me to it.
Quoted from Jeekayjay:He's talking about an item in hobbit update not the machine edition.
Right, but that item in the software is for the BA edition only...I.e. Special attract mode, graphic colors.
Quoted from TouchingEvil:Hello
Im thinking of buying a hobbit pinball and is the third movie on it now with a update ?
Last i checked it was not on it and slot of people wanted the last battle in to the game ?
Cheers
The third movie has always been in it...if you mean 3rd Arkenstone mode "Battle of Five Armies", then yes it is in now with the latest code but needs polish.
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