Oh wow! I feel that is going to be one heck of amazing pin! Looks like its shaping up nicely. New interface looks very cool. I can see how certain scoring elements will likely be placed in the four corners of the screen.

Talk about attention to detail!

The audio in this game is going to raise the bar I think for pinball sound. Very cool that JJP has hired Two Steps From Hell to do the music.

Anyone else notice that there are no longer drops below the left and right upper flippers? The layout design shows drop targets in those locations with targets behind them but the white wood shows standard standing targets. Is this how the game will be made or is that just for the white wood and drop targets in those locations will be in the game?

I hope its the last option as come on this is a JJP game and it should have a lot of mechanical toys / features like WOZ.

Update: I do notice a lot of space between the stand up targets and the playfield in front of it on the white wood picture. Seems like that space may be intended for the actual drop targets?

14a (1).jpg

Well, I don't think we will be able to hit either ramp with the front two pop ups (if there character pop ups) up using the bottom flippers. In those times say to get rid of the pop ups you may have to hit them on the back of the targets by making both ramps from the upper left and right flippers.

I think it was intended for the films to be long and drawn out as Peter Jackson has literally enough time to cover the entire book and then some especially with putting in extra content that isn't even in the book. Personally I just love the world of Middle Earth and the more drawn out it is the better as long as Peter Jackson is the director for a Tolkien written book. I'll probably buy all of the extended editions on Blu Ray in a set when they are out as I did with LOTR. I think it will be too difficult to stay awake and watch all 6 films back to back though, haha.

For anyone interested in seeing how The Hobbit films were made check out the documentary below. Its a long video but wow is it ever cool just seeing how much work went into the films and the passion the crew has for them.

I was in that exact same boat. If I could afford both I would get both but I can't. I decided to go with The Hobbit as while I enjoy MM for the same price, $8k (or $7.5k with preordering Sept 13) I would be getting a pinball machine with the latest tech in pinball, a loaded wide body game, game with an LCD, some similar elements to MM and a quest based ruleset from Keith and Ted. After I thought about that it was an easy decision to make. MM is still an amazing pin but I just can't afford that and a Hobbit plus I'm a huge fan of the books and films.

I think The Hobbit is going to have one heck of a deep ruleset based off of what we saw in the video. Here's where I'm thinking the rules are going. This is going to be something new for pinball when you toss in the LCD display.

1. Each players goal is travel the path of Bilbo, the Dwarf's and Gandalf from the point where they arrive at Bilbo's house all the way towards the end of the last movie.
2. We can see the green, red and yellow markers on the map of Middle Earth in the center of the screen. Each marker represents a player. If a character is in mission in Lake Town then his marker will be there on the map while another player could still be all the way back in the Shire.
3. Each point where a player stops in Middle Earth will represent one of the games missions.

Other guesses

1. Defeating Smaug will be a wizard mode similar to Destroy the Ring in LOTR and Battle the Wicked Witch in WOZ. I don't see defeating Smaug being a There and Back Again or Somewhere Over the Rainbow type wizard mode as people are going to want to fight the dragon on a good to great game.

2. The title of the last movie is called "There and Back Again". I think this will be the games final wizard mode where you somehow have to go back through Middle Earth on the display / game and get back to the Shire.

3. There will be a mode where you go back and forth with Golumn with riddles. Beating this mode and others will award you a reward.

4. Rewards along the way will include the key into the Lonely Mountain, the ring, and Bilbo's sword Sting.

This thread is about The Hobbit...Also no one will be waiting 3 more years for the game. I bet the first games start shipping by the end of the year with a majority arriving the first half of next year.

Bilbo Baggins multiball wizard mode featuring music by Leonard Nimoy?!

Same here. It's going to be interesting to hear just what type of toys are filling up the IO board more then WOZ. Here's some guesses I have for the toys and features.

1. 11 drop targets.
2. Three of the five Smaug drop targets (the three on the right) may be a rising / lowering drop target bank similar to the one Tron and Attack From Mars. Personally I'm hoping the three targets are a moving target bank so players have some way to attack Smaug.
3. We know there are 4 pop up's in the middle of the playfield but are they all going to be character pop ups? I'm going to guess that one of the pop ups is a trap door and that a couple of them will have targets not only on the front but the back as well. Each pop up can be hit from behind by either shooting one of the ramp shots for the upper two pop ups or hitting the orbits for the lower pop ups.
4. Smaug will be interactive on at least the level of the castle in MM if not more.
5. We haven't seen everything under the playfield. Jack said something along the lines of a lot happening under the playfield in the machine as a lot happens underground in the movie. There could very well be a lower mini playfield.

LOL! Those are the type of videos you can find when doing random YouTube browsing at 2:00am, haha.

Anyone else see the recent Facebook post that PinballSTAR Amusements posted today?

"Smaug... The Hobbit pinball...
We have gotten teasers from Jersey Jack Pinball saying that the Smaug dragon toy in the top left of the playfield will 'be alive' and interact with the ball...
So.... HOW DO YOU THINK THE SMAUG TOY WILL WORK / WHAT WILL HE DO ?
When the info is released at some point I will send the person I deem to be closest to being correct and most descriptive a Hobbit pinball prize package.
It's fun, it's free, you can win cool stuff... Let's hear all those great ideas and theories... Again, this about the Smaug toy part of the game only..."

Sounds like the Smaug toy may be interactive on the level of the Castle in MM.

I've been wondering where the ball locking mech will be on The Hobbit and up until now thought it would be one of the pop ups if one is a trap door. While that is still a possibility I'm going to guess that the Smaug toy is also the ball locking mech similar to the castle in MM.

Sounds like fun! I wonder if JJP would use a ball similar to the Power Ball in TZ for the Arcenstone?

I heard that Jack will be speaking about The Hobbit at TPF this evening. Any update on if he said anything new?

So I just read about the Gandalf extra ball animation. I wonder if this means JJP signed or is planning to sign Sir Ian Mckellen for custom call outs? That would be awesome!

Jack has clearly stated progress about The Hobbit including playing the latest whitewood and releasing more animations. With WOZ he had to release a lot of information about the game to get buyers on-board but like many are now saying WOZ speaks for itself, especially with 3.0 just released, and now JJP can play its cards closer to their chest because of their success. I also think, and read, that Jack doesn't want to release too much information about the game as he's then giving ideas away to the competition. With The Hobbit JJP has already released far more information (including animations, cabinet art work, who's doing the audio, that TH uses up all of the IO board, etc) then we are used to with Stern so I think they are being as transparent and open as they can be without just giving ideas way to Stern.

Here's the comments made about The Hobbit from TPF.

From Pinball News

"After showing a brief trailer, Jack said he had been to the JJP mid-west location to play one of the two whitewoods for The Hobbit, which he said is a very different game to The Wizard of Oz. He described how it uses the same driver board as The Wizard of Oz, but where in that game there are seventeen unused drivers, these are all used in The Hobbit.

Although the details have not been revealed yet, Jack said Smaug - the dragon - will be positioned on a mountain on the upper left side of the playfield and would interact with the ball in a couple of ways. He also described it as a strategy game with more than two controls on each side which the player can use to control what happens on the playfield."

Also about half way down the page below you will find the audio clip from when JJP spoke at TPF. Jacks comments about The Hobbit are in the first 10 minutes of the video.

http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/tpf2014/index4.html

I think the coolest thing said during the JJP panel is Jack mentioning that The Hobbit will have even more features / toys packed in then WOZ. Jack said that The Hobbit uses all 17 unused IO driver port inputs that we're not used on WOZ!

DAMN! That "Extra Ball" animation is very cool! Looks like there's been more than a few changes to the playfield layout too. There appears to be a lot more going on based off of the updated playfield layout.

Hey at least the code is now done and has a deep ruleset unlike many other modern games. WOZ also sounds like the most complex pin Keith ever worked on which makes having complete code for WOZ even more impressive.

Haha, same here. I'm just glad the code did get finished for the game. I remember emailing Jack a year ago about if WOZ would have a deep ruleset and he simply replied with "One word...Keith!".

Great points. I feel the exact same way and enjoy many of the games that Stern and JJP are putting out.

Let the JJP jabs continue!

Haha! Yup, your right...I'm here to defend JJP from the trolls! It's a pretty easy job thankfully, really short hours.

Jack is speaking at the Michigan Pinball Expo today so maybe we will hear something new regarding The Hobbit. If he starts taking questions I'm going to try and ask if JJP plans on hiring one of the actors from the films for custom voice work.

I asked Jack today at MPE if JJP is thinking of hiring someone from the films to do voice work for The Hobbit. It sounds like a no He mentioned that Martin Freeman wanted $100k for 10 minutes of voice work and that custom voice work from film actors has gone up significantly since the days of games like LOTR. There's still hope I guess that they get someone else from the films that would be a bit cheaper. Jack did say that they have Two Steps From Hell to do the music for the game which alone I can imagine is not cheap consideromg that major film studios have hired them to do music for big budget films.

As far as what else Jack spoke about at MPE it was some of the same things from TPF. Jack and Butch showed the same Hobbit clip they showed at TPF. Jack did say that they will likely be showing playfield artwork for TH soon. From what I heard it sounds like playfield art cannot be released until the second movie is out on Blu Ray / DVD since the playfield uses assets from the first and second films. Jack did say that the cabinet and playfield use assets from the 1st and 2nd films while the third movie will be incorporated on screen as otherwise the game wouldn't ship on time.

It was nice hearing Jack talk about his passion for JJP and pinball in general. You can really tell that Jack loves what he does, wants to make customers happy and wants to run a company that makes fun pinball games. Jack also mentioned that some operator magazine (not "Replay" that Jack writes for) ranked WOZ as #1 in earnings for April. One funny comment that Jack did make was in regards to some of the constant WOZ bashing by a select few on Pinside...he said something very close to (in a joking tone) "that they don't know sh*t about building a pinball company", haha. That got a good laugh out of the crowd. Overall Jack and Butch gave a really nice presentation and it was great to have JJP at MPE again.

It's out this Tuesday, April 8th.

You're welcome! I also recall Jack mentioning something about the player controlling divertors on top of the playfield and underneath the game. My guess is that players will be able to control the main ramp divertor. I do wonder if controlling an under the playfield divertor means that guesses about an underground playfield with camera that can then be played on the LCD is going to happen. That idea does fit with the theme as an underground playfield could represent Smaugs layer inside the Lonely Mountain and you battle with him below and above the playfield (he could be an interactive toy that rises / lowers from one playfield to the next) just like how the characters in the films battle with him inside the Lonely Mountain and then outside later on in the films.

working, reliable, fully coded?

Working: Where's the issue here? Are you talking about WOZ games with the 5 volt LED board issues? Those are games are not down for the count, people can get replacement boards, games with 7 volt boards are out (far more vs 5 volt games) and thankfully a permanent fix is being developed for people with a light board issue. Many many owners with 7 volt games haven't had an issue, including my own game.

Reliable: How is WOZ the highest earner at many locations if it's not reliable? Does adjusting switches / coils make it unreliable? Every pin regardless of manufacture would be deemed unreliable then. I know of a WOZ near me that was one of the first shipped yet still out earns every other pin, including modern Sterns, right next to it...

Fully coded: Why even bring this up with 3.0 out? WOZ has a deeper ruleset than any modern Stern game. Over a dozen updates have been released in the past year. Keith and Ted coded on the most complex pinball platform yet and still managed to create a deep complete ruleset for the game. Also JJP didn't make owners wait 6+ months for a code update to complete the game.

Jack and JJP developed, built, shipped and have now supported one of the most complex pins the pinball industry has ever seen. Please tell me how he hasn't kept his word? Are we going to start talking about how the game was going to ship earlier, about how the game would never ship with incomplete code? It's not how you start but how you finish that matters and missed shipping dates and 1 year old complete code goals no longer matter with WOZECLE's shipping, the game out earning other pins on location, seeing 3 WOZ's with 5 people deep all Saturday afternoon waiting to play it at MPE, and 3.0 out which makes the game have one of the deepest rulesets in pinball.

While Jack didn't confirm it my guess is that JJP does have assets to the 3rd movie yet as otherwise it would be incorporated into the side art and playfield artwork. Based off what Jack said yesterday it sounds like the machine would have to be delayed if assets from the third movie were to be used in playfield and cabinet artwork and that to release the game on on time the 3rd movie will be incorporated in the rules / on screen.

duplicate post

My game came directly from JJP. I do know other owners that received their game from Abel and haven't had any major issues. I did preorder my Hobbit from Abel.

Do you have a macro for posting something negative in every WOZ thread or down voting a positive WOZ / JJP comment?

I hear ya. It's nice to have a blend of audio call outs using lines from the movie and custom call outs from the actual movie that the pin is based off of. I don't think STTNG or LOTR would be as highly regarded as they are today without the custom call outs from actors in the show / films.

Theres a simple solution to that...don't read it Sounds like you just can't stand to reading anything good about JJP / WOZ yet don't mind posting jabs (not talking criticism) repeatedly towards them.

or...just keep following this mindset about JJP and WOZ :p.

Thats not true. I understand theres going to be criticism about the game, that's expected. There are things that have annoyed me about the game as well as some actions taken by JJP. I don't count jabs and name calling as constructive criticism. I dont want to argue anymore about this, as I'm sure you don't. I apologize if I took it too far in some replies. I enjoy WOZ obviously a lot and have a lot of pride in supporting a company like JJP because of what they did with WOZ and the positive effects making that game has had on pinball.

Haha, that would be awesome. Hopefully JJP can at least get one actor from the films for some call outs.

Lol! Haha

With The Desolation of Smaug out on Blu Ray / DVD today maybe JJP will soon show us artwork for the playfield Based off Jacks comments at MPE it sounds like they couldn't release anything with assets from the second movie until the Blu Ray / DVD is out.

On another note if the third movie is implemented into the game only in terms of software we may not see code that uses assets from the third film until its release on Blu Ray / DVD around this time next year.

I hope they get to that point too but we have seen that starting a pinball company is not an easy thing to do and certainly not while building a pin like WOZ for a companies first machine. I don't mind waiting a year for a pin on the level of WOZ. Stern can come out with 3 titles a year but they are not on the same level of a game like WOZ or TH. Ford, Chrysler and GM all make more vehicles then Ferrari and McClaren but I would much rather wait for the latter if all the vehicles were the same price. Good things like WOZ that offer a lot of value for the money, and code updates, are worth waiting for in my opinion.

I doubt it will be complete at launch. Yes WOZ code wasnt complete at launch but Keith and Ted did complete the code for the game with 3.0 and then some.

People are not having problems on the level you are claming. You make it sound like every owner is having light board issues and that can't be further from the truth. I've had my game since November 2013 and its been rock solid. While my ACDC Premium is awesome the quality level, and value for what you get, is no where near what JJP did withh WOZ. If I'm going to be spending $6.5k+ on a pin its only going to be for a JJP game from now on as their games are better built and you get far more game for your money.

I'm not picking sides. I like a lot of Stern games and think they make some great products. I enjoy my ACDC Premium whenever I play it.

Yup, lots to see still. WOZ has a ton of toys / features on its playfield and with the The Hobbit supposedly driving 17 more things than WOZ I think we have only seen less than half of its toys so far

That is definitely playfield artwork on the game Maybe we will be getting another update soon.

Thanks! Hmmm. It seems like the lower pop ups, at least the right, have artwork of a door on it? I guess it's possible that the upper two pop ups are figure pop ups and the lower two could be trap doors?

It was a Facebook post...Is Stern posting random Superman and furniture pictures considered updates as well?

JJP keeps their customer base more in the loop than anyone else in the industry. Over a dozen code updates were released for WOZ and throughout the entire process Jack, Ted, Keith and Alex offered updates about the updates and responded to feedback on the JJP Google group. Jack has also been active on the JJP Google group by posting weekly.

What updates has Stern released about their next game...nothing. With JJP we have seen nearly the entire layout for The Hobbit, videos of white woods, images of updated cabinet art, who's doing the audio, updates about custom voice work, updates on the number of toys. That seems like a good amount of information released.

Yup, and in the end they have the only NIB pin in the industry worth a $7.5k+ asking price. I don't mind waiting for a quality game that actually has a lot of toys, and complete code like I did with WOZ. I don't see anyone dropping their Hobbit preorders for a Mustang LE despite that game being out...

I hear what you are saying about the preorder money and updates. Agree 100%.

Your darn right they should be prod of it. Keith mentioned that WOZ is the most complex game he's had to code for yet and the fact that he, Ted and JP made the game as deep as it is today is pretty impressive.

Code updates were released nearly monthly for the game with open communication from JJP about when the updates may drop as well as what may be in them. That's a nice change of pace compared to other games...

Also, coding for a LCD based game sounds more complex compared to DMD based games so yes JJP should be proud to offer their first game (also the first to use an LCD) with complete code less than a year from when they began shipping.

From Keith Johnson's Pinball Magazine interview.

"PM: Is it very different to program a display effect now than when you were programming dot matrix displays?
KJ: It’s more complex. With dot matrix animations all you do is say, “Here’s a block of graphics I want to show, whether it’s for full screen or part of the screen, and then put in some text down there.” With what we do, we have a lot more to think about. There’s a lot that needs to get onto the screen and it takes a lot of time to send data to the graphics card before it gets displayed.

We’re managing what the data is – whether it’s a movie, a sprite, or text, or whatever – and we’re trying to keep that as slim as possible. Then we’re trying to get everything to show up in the right spots, so that it looks pleasing and not like it’s just thrown up there.

With dots you have a very limited area that you can work with. It’s just very obvious which things fit where, whether you’re going to use a small font or a larger font. With what we’re doing, which is a 1360 x 768 full HD display, there’s a lot more tweaking in terms of what the exact right spot is to put down text, what’s the best way to show this movie while the ball is doing something else. It’s a lot more attention to a lot more things than you would have to worry about with a dot matrix."

haha. I'm fine with it really. It's the same people over and over again. This has been going on for months now. I'm actually getting pretty good at guessing who down votes my JJP related posts at this point!

As for another Hobbit update I recall Jack saying something (at this years MPE) along the lines of not being able to release playfield artwork until after the second film had been released on DVD and Blu Ray. With Jack posting The Hobbit pic on Facebook with part of the artwork showing I hope that means we will soon see the rest of of the playfield artwork.

Well said!

What problems with WOZ are there to work out? The LED board issue is fixed, done. Myself and many others have had their games for months now without any major issues. The game wouldn't be ranked #1 in earnings at a lot of locations (#1 by I think its called Play Magazine?) if it was plagued with many problems...

Well said. For some reason the typical people up voting negative JJP / WOZ posts are not doing the same thing with the post above? Hmmmm. Go figure.

This is going to be huge. Interactive apron plus LCD = awesomness Can't wait for this game.

Of of the teaser videos for the game shows a map of Middle Earth on the LCD with different markers across it. It's possible that the markers represent each player and their "location" in Middle Earth which may represent where they are at in the game. I wonder if this feature of tracking your progress on the map of Middle Earth is what will appear on the apron?

haha. I'm thinking he does as well.

I originally thought that the interactive map may be an LCD on the apron but I'm thinking its more likely that the map will be printed on the apron and then LED lights will be placed across various points representing a players location in Middle Earth that corresponds to the rules. Maybe the far right location on the apron is the Shire and all the way to the right is the Lonely Mountain with a bunch of points in between.

I haven't heard anything. Members of the JJP Google Group created a post about requesting a Memorial Day update but nothing came out of it. I would have thought we would have seen the playfield art by now.

Looks like the game is shaping up nicely. Thanks for posting the updates.

After owning a WOZECLE for 6 months I can say that I don't mind waiting for their next machine. Hopefully though we don't have to wait that long. I do think that the software for The Hobbit will be more complete than WOZ's code at launch.

The drop targets on the left and right orbits are still there with three on each side.

The next big question on my mind is what are the toys going to be like for this game? WOZ has a lot of toys and features that I think justify its price but is there a comparable amount of toys with TH?

We know that Smaug is going to be the main toy and with the price of this game I'm hoping it's at least as interactive as the castle in MM. If the toy just bends down like the T-Rex in JP and "eats" the ball I think that will be a bummer. I'm also wondering if the character pop ups will also be lock mechanisms with the four "Lock" inserts being right in the middle on the pop ups. It also seems like another toy will be placed in the "Bag End" area of the playfield.

Sure, no problem! Here's the whole post you took the quote from...lol

"The next big question on my mind is what are the toys going to be like for this game? WOZ has a lot of toys and features that I think justify its price but is there a comparable amount of toys with TH?

We know that Smaug is going to be the main toy and with the price of this game I'm hoping it's at least as interactive as the castle in MM. If the toy just bends down like the T-Rex in JP and "eats" the ball I think that will be a bummer. I'm also wondering if the character pop ups will also be lock mechanisms with the four "Lock" inserts being right in the middle on the pop ups. It also seems like another toy will be placed in the "Bag End" area of the playfield."

That sounds good to me! I'm sure Keith is going to put together another deep quest based ruleset for The Hobbit.

As far as Smaug goes do you or anyone else think that there will be a shot into the toy MM castle style? Currently I see 5 drop targets in front of Smaug with 3 /5 on the right having stand up targets behind them. Is it possible that the 3 drop targets on the right are on a motorized target bank similar to the target bank in Tron and Spiderman? If not I'm curious how Smaug will interact with the ball then, especially with Jack saying that the toy will be very interactive.

I think the T-Rex is a cool toy and is interactive (more than a lot of pin toys) but the castle in MM has multiple interactive features. There's the draw bridge that moves up and down, the door that swings open, the wall shot towards the left and the "exploding" feature.

We are pretty much 6 months away from release of the game at this point. The third film comes out December 17th. I can remember when the wait was well over a year.

Anyone else think that the Smaug toy may be a multilevel toy similar to the main toy in Dr. Who? The player could first awaken Smaug (level 1) then get him to come out of his lair (level 2) and ultimately raise another layer (level 3) to expose the missing scale. Each level would result in new ways to interact with Smaug.

Lol, nice. Based off the flyer it doesn't appear that Godzilla interacts with the ball at all in that game?

4443f2.jpg

Ah ok, cool. At first I thought the "zilla breath" comment on the flyer was referring to magnets under the playfield in front of Godzilla that sent balls flying.

It will be great to see how well the playfield blends into the entire package. Maybe we will see a prototype at Expo.

I don't think TH could have been built into a non-wide body without removing the 6 drop targets in the lower playfield, reducing the right / left in lanes from 2 to 1 and removing two of the pop ups. Plus who knows what else would have to be removed. Maybe no middle captive ball shot and just a tiny Smaug head, lol. I'm sure TZ could have been built into a non-widebody but would anyone want that today if it meant no gumball machine, no mini flippers and no mini magnetic playfield? Heck no. I'll guess that The Hobbit is going to play very fast at times but also provide some fun stop and go play. I also can't wait to see what Keith and Ted do with the ruleset. We are in for a treat with whatever those two come up with

What!? You agreed with me?

Yes!

Even weightlifters at the World Strongman competition can barely deadlift two WOZ's. Rumor has it that with the Hobbit weighing even more then WOZ that it won't be allowed into next years competition out of fear that competitors may be injured.

WOZ.jpg

I know what you mean. The warg I think looks pretty good, the spider a little better but the other two...My first reaction was "really?". I say that not as an insult as there are many other things good about the game. They look ok but I was expecting more detail / polish. If Smaug is on the same level of detail as these I likely won't go forward with my order. I hope I'm wrong. After owning a WOZ I expected the same quality on the TH in terms of attention to detail.

The rest of TH looks amazing and you can see that in the playfield, ramps, cabinet, lcd animations, etc. However, the look of these models in their current state detracts from what is already good about the game. I would expect the models to look at least as detailed as the MM trolls but that is not the case.

The feedback I provided wasn't rude unlike yours from previous threads. Actually I complemented the first two figures. You came off as condescending and repeatedly brought up your rather rude witch model comments over and over again. Matt has done some fantastic work on WOZ. I think that the barrel models for The Hobbit look great and that the warg bash target looks good. However, I'm not thrilled with the other 3 and expected more after seeing what is in WOZ and some of the earlier Hobbit reveals.

Wow. That actually don't look that great up close. Then again they are not viewed that close in MM.

After taking a second look at the 4 Hobbit pop ups I think that the first two look pretty good. The Orc and Goblin though need some work in my opinion.

Didn't you already sell your Hobbit spot to someone else?

Great looking toys are nice but I'll take good looking toys that actually move over stationary ones any day. Especially when you're paying $8k+ for a game. Pop ups move with character models and interact with the ball. A toy like the crystal ball has things you can actually look at on the playfield to shoot for as well as mode information. Innovative features like mini outlane games increase the fun factor of games. Mini playfields with a door to bash down, loop shots, a spinning house with feet that kick out, a toy that brings the ball up to a mini playfield that has targets to shoot at are far more fun in my book then a nice looking toy that does nothing in terms of gameplay. We have heard strong rumors about The Hobbit having a 5" LCD somewhere as well as an interactive map on the apron. Both of those toys (features if you want to call them even) somehow interact with the player whereas a stationary toy does not.

Don't get me wrong its nice to have highly detailed stationary toys but at the end of the day I'm buying a pinball machine because I want things that the ball or I visually can interact with. As a player and pinball owner a 26" LCD with mode information and cool animations offers much more value and fun then a toy that doesn't move at all...

Would MM owners want a more detailed but less interactive castle? It could be the best looking miniature castle in the world but that doesn't help much in a pin. The same goes for Smaug. As long as it looks good but is interactive people will be happy as they are buying a pinball machine to play pinball.

Dude get out of here if you are going to start being disrespectful again. You don't want a Hobbit, already sold your spot and you have been bashing WOZ non stop for weeks now. Why keep posting in this thread?

There's plenty of good things to say about The Hobbit as opposed to making negative ones. For example all of the ramps and rails are metal as opposed to plastic. I would expect at least metal rails when spending $7k+ on a pin. The playfield artwork looks great especially after the team took into consideration customer feedback. We know that the code will be much further along at the release of the game then WOZ was when it first began shipping. The game is going to have two VUK's, a subway, 11 drop targets, a kick back, mechanical mini axes, two magnets and hopefully a very interactive Smaug toy. There's rumors about an interactive map on the apron of the game as well as a 5" LCD incorporated into the Bag End area. The game is also driving 17 more things then WOZ resulting in it weighing more then WOZ which many consider to be one of the most feature packed pins out there. With the game driving 17 more things I think that there is much more to be revealed. Plus we have another epic Keith Johnson ruleset to look forward to it.

As for the pop ups. Yeah I wish the Orc and Goblin were more detailed but like others have said they are very small and needed to be designed a certain way to pass WB approval. I thought the MM troll pop ups looked great until I saw them up close in this thread. The Goblic and Orc pop ups will be furthest away with the Spider and Wargs one being closer. When The Hobbit's pop ups are seen in the completed game I think they will look perfectly fine.

It sure sounds like the full reveal will be at Expo! I would think it would have to be with production set to begin by the end of the year.

I think it will be in the form of code / video clips on the LCD like CraZ4Pin said. I can't find the post but I remember Jack saying that the 3rd film would be implemented via software after it's release.

As for the 3rd film being represented on the playfield it's already there. There's a "Battle Five Armies" insert and the entire lower playfield area has several of the armies around it.

I'm interested in knowing as well. If not we are only a few weeks away from Expo!

Thanks! It looks like Jack was talking about The Hobbit at the event. Jack appears to be showing off some pictures of a more completed version of the game. You can see lit LED's and drop targets in the second picture below. It also looks like someone was there capturing video of the event. Now we just need to find the video

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Haha. I'm thinking those may be the "Horn of Gondor" toys.

I don't think so. 27 here. I would have been there if the event was closer. Another buddy of mine owns several pins and is the same age. During Jacks fireside chat at this year's Michigan pinball there were a lot of pinball fans of various ages.

Haha! That's great.

Looks like good news for overseas buyers. Freddys Pinball Paradise is now an authorized JJP distributor.

http://myemail.constantcontact.com/JJP-Appoints-Freddy-s-Pinball-Paradise-as-Authorized-Distributor-.html?soid=1104524641178&aid=D0QdAysMlcM

Does anyone else think that the "Lock" rollovers may be used for the games skill shots? WOZ has several that vary in difficulty to provide for some fun gameplay but I was wondering where would they be at in TH? With the way the exit of the shooter lane is lined up I'm thinking that the Lock rollovers may be the skill shot targets. Maybe 2, 3 or even all 4 can be hit on the plunge for different point values?

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Haha. Awesome!

Maybe the final production axes will me made of metal. After all TH is confirmed to weigh more then WOZ. That still boggles my mind considering everything in WOZ.

Want to talk about TH's all metal ramps and rails? You love comparing WOZ and TH to a certain recently announced Stern game. That game has metal ramps and rails right? I mean for $7.5k+ it has to...

Metal rails and ramps are a premium option over molded plastic ones. It's like standard rims or nice chrome rims on a sports car, cloth or leather seating, etc. Stern even advertises metal ramps and rails as a premium feature on some of their games. Look at Star Trek by Stern. Plastic rails on the pro but metal on the premium and LE. The only modern Stern pro game to include metal ramps and rails is Metallica Pro and Stern themselves advertises this in the games feature matrix and flyer. Plastic ramps and rails are fine at the pro level but when we are talking $7.5k+ for a pinball machine the game should at least include metal ramps or rails and if the design allows for it both. Would I like the axes in The Hobbit to be metal? Heck yes. Would I rather have plastic ramps and rails but metal axes...no.

I've never seen a pinball company advertise plastic ramps and rails as a feature...

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...

I said that Metallica is the only modern Stern pro to offer metal ramps and rails. That's not the case with other pro's for some reason. Metallica also has several unique interactive toys / features yet that's not the case with every pin the company makes.

Also, I posted the picture because Stern is advertising metal ramps and rails as a feature. Have you ever seen them mention plastic ramps as a game feature? Like I said there's nothing wrong with plastic ramps and rails at the pro price point. However, at the higher price points metal ramps and rails is nice option to have as it helps to justify the price. We see the same type of things with car companies all the time. Standard rims and cloth seats on a regular model but chrome rims and leather seats on a higher end one.

What is your problem? Seriously. You sold your Hobbit spot. Get out of this thread for good and stop being a troll. Yes you are on a roll tonight...a trolling roll.

Great point. For TH the team will be able to pull from 3 long feature length films video clips and audio. That is a wealth of content to work with it. Personally I think one of the biggest strengths of TH will be the way that Keith and Ted tie their ruleset into all of the cool videos clips and animations that JP makes. Keith even mentioned that the ruleset will be mission based and comprehensive which means covering all three films. I think we are all in for a treat with what Keith has been cooking up for the rules. A game can have the coolest toys in the world but it's the programmers that bring them to life with interesting and fun rules. Keith and Ted will do just that with TH like they have done with other successful titles they worked on.

As for The Hobbit films themselves I think they are really good. JJP picked a great theme to base their second pin on. The entire series has a lot of appeal across various age groups. World wide ticket sales for the first two films alone are over $2 billion.

I can see your point especially if the clips were very long. Thankfully they are not very long move clips though. Maybe 10-20 seconds at most for an entire scene. WOZ has various clips from the film but none are longer then 10-20 seconds with exception to the ones that play during There's No Place Like Home. I like the LCD as a score display and secondary information source but it's also nice when tied with clips from the film(s) and custom animations.

That sounds awesome. I prefer Keith's style of rulesets that tell a story, put you on a quest and give you rewards towards a larger goal then others that are simply about points. Keith's rulesets just keep me coming back again and again. There's so much content to work with too with the 3 Hobbit Films that the game could very well be deeper then WOZ, LOTR and TSPP.

I'll admit that I actually considered dropping my Hobbit preorder after seeing TBL reveal yesterday. However, I can't see spending almost $9k on a theme that I can't really relate to. I like TBL movie but it's not one of my favorites. I love the LOTR and Hobbit films though and can see pins based on those themes being much easier to get my wife onboard with (especially with having kids in the house one day) and something that she will enjoy as well.

Well, of course they are drawn out as its one book split into 3 films. Somehow there are even extended editions, lol. However, the more Middle Earth the better in my book. I'm glad all 3 films are packed with detail and not rushed. Can't wait for #3.

Oh I'm not. I already talked myself out of it, haha. The Hobbit is the theme and pin for me. Looking forward to seeing more at expo. It sounds like what we have already seen just scratches the surface in regards to what the game will offer.

With a JJP game you may get both. It sounds like a really cool feature and one that could be turned on or off in the system menu. It would be perfect for player profiles on a game where you can load up your player profile, play a few games and then have your scores and other gameplay stats saved for viewing at anytime.

I was thinking about what else could be in the game that hasn't been done in pinball before. One of the things I thought of was rear targets on 2 or all 4 of the pop ups. We know that the two ramps have a divertor. When the ramp divertor is enabled it will allow for a shot to the rear of either of the top two pop ups. If the lower pop ups have rear targets they can be hit from either orbit. I think targets on the rear of the pop ups would be awesome and provide for some really fun gameplay.

The other possibility I thought of was that the pop ups themselves may be the lock mechanisms. I don't think it's just by chance that there are 4 roll over targets and 4 pop ups, haha. I could see having to hit a roll over to spell "Spider", "Orc", "Golbin" or "Warg" and then lock the ball at one of the pop up mechs. The lock mechanism could be on the back of each pop up or maybe the pop ups raise up and down to reveal the lock shot. Smaug could also be the lock mech (there's another divertor in that area) of course but I would expect there to be a "Lock" insert in front of the right ramp to notify the player that lock is lit.

I think JJP should just say that every LE they make comes with invisigalss and a shaker motor. That right there shows that they offer value with their games and offer more then then competition at the LE level. I don't see how they can't with WOZECLE coming with both and then not including it with The Hobbit LE which is priced higher then WOZ. Jack himself said that JJP is making The Hobbit with the mindset of "WOZ will be our worst game". To make TH better then WOZ it needs to include the LE feature set that WOZECLE came with in my opinion.

I hear ya. I don't have a problem with the villains being on the side art but I wish they didn't take up so much space and in the case of the Orc be front and center.

I'm going to guess it's used for a mini crossbow toy on the apron of the game.

Nice catch. It could very well be a flasher.

Lots of cool changes. It's great to see that JJP changed a lot of things based on the feedback after expo.

I cancelled my order after expo and at times regretted it. After seeing the updated game it's still not for me. Smaug needed to interact with the ball for me to drop $7500 on a pin. Also, drop targets are fun but there's too many in TH in my opinion and the game would have benefited from other unique toys / shots where the lower drops are.

I wish JJP nothing but the best with this game and will be patiently waiting for Pats game.

I believe that is for the subway. The ball drops down into that hole after coming off of the divertor to the left of Smaugs head.

I hear ya. In my opinion stop and go games like WOZ can be just as fun as the fastest games out there. Increasing the flow in a game comes at the expense of reducing the number of toys or devices in a game that interact with the ball. For $7500+ I want a pinball machine to have multiple unique things that interact with the ball. WOZ does that in a variety of ways but I'm just not feeling that with The Hobbit right now. There are a lot of people out there that prefer flow over stop and go and vice versa. I'm glad that JJP is trying to please everyone with games that offer different styles of play. I tend to prefer WOZ style games at these price points which is why I'm holding out for Pats game. Alternating between a high flow game and a stop and go game sounds like a good design strategy to me as it pleases customers on both side of the fence.