(Topic ID: 77386)

Hobbit Update

By B9

6 years ago

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  • 743 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by GravitaR
  • Topic is favorited by 96 Pinsiders


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#2606 5 years ago

Ok... Let me start by saying, WOW. I LOVE the changes to the playfield. It looks much more engaging now. The new huge lower PF Smaug looks menacing, and awesome!

I must say though, I thought the initial image of the Gold Mechanical Smaug was a joke. I'm not knocking Matt, I think he's doing a great job, and things are only improving... But am I the only person who thought it looked like Smaug was coming out of a toilet??!! I guess that's supposed to be a stack of treasure chests??! It looks like the top of a Porcelein Throne! I actually wondered if it was somebody's idea of a gag, to make it look like he was popping out of a toilet bowl. I guess I need to get my mind out of the gutter!

Way to go Team JJP. This machine is just getting better and better!


#2829 5 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

I would recommend asking Keith if it has a particular purpose. For those are not involved with the design it does not appear to have a specific purpose yet, but with code it could be very important or we could simply be missing something.
WOZ initially was this way, but I assure you the upper flipper is now a big part of the game for a good player.

I really love my WOZ... But I have to disagree with this statement. The mini playfield hides balls coming to the 3rd flipper (I'm assuming that's the one you're talking about??!), making it very tough to time. Nearly impossible actually, especially in multiball.

I can sometimes get a good Witch bash from it, and on RARE occasions I get a flukey crystal ball shot, but more often than not it feels like a flail shot.

The Hobbit 3rd flipper however may be best implimented for a timed roving drop target hit. With that many targets it's kind of silly to assert (at this point in the code) that the flipper is useless.

If the feed to the flipper is visible, and reliable, then it could be used for several useful purposes.

Perhaps the point here is, Is there a shot that CAN'T be made from the bottom flippers, that you MUST use the 3rd flipper for (a la Warp Ramp, or Gem Shot... Although I often get a lucky bounce in to the Gem shot from a lower flipper post ricochet.). A ramp with a sideways entrance is the obvious use of a side mounted flipper. Don't see that in this design, but it doesn't mean the flipper is useless.

#2833 5 years ago

I don't really understand what is so great about Drop Targets, unless dropping them opens a new possibility. IE drop a bank of targets to access a new orbit, or drop a set of inline targets to access a saucer or magnet. MET Drops are great. TWD Woodbury Drop is cool.

If the drop targets are simply targets... What's the point?? They may as well simply be StandUps, and save 80 lbs of hardware, and 11 complicated mechanical devices!

I was very intrigued with the mechanical control of the drops, allowing for roving targets etc... But this same result is easily achieved with lights, as it has been for 30 plus years. Even if Drops create a two stage target, The Drop and the standup behind it, that's still easily don't with lighting.

I'm in on the Hobbit, and I'm super stoked about the new design... I'm just curious what is so fantastic about this multitude of Drop Targets??! Can anybody shed some light on this for me?

#2836 5 years ago
Quoted from Zebulon-74:

Have No Fear Keith and Ted are here

I'm totally with you on that. I can't wait to get my machine and watch it evolve. I have ZERO concerns about the fact that it will end up being a monster machine. I know the code will be other worldly... Am just talking about the mechanics of the drops, and what, if any, benefit they provide.

If they are simply targets... Why make them more complicated than they need to be? Therefor making them heavier, clunkier, and more prone to malfunction than a simple standup with a RGB insert??

#2850 5 years ago

I appreciate all the comments about Drop Targets. I agree for the most part. The physicality of them certainly makes the shot more satisfying. I FAR prefer when dropping a target opens another possibility though. I'm a big fan of the mech, I love their implementation in my machines, MET's Inline Drops, STLE's Vengeance Drop, WOZ's Winky Target, TSPP's Itchy and Scratchy Hole (Yes, I meant to say that!) and TWDs Woodbury Drop.

How nice to see thoughtful responses to my post, instead of "You're a frakking TOOL. You must not know ANYTHING about REAL Pinball! What sort of moronic idiot faced jackhammer doesn't like Drop Targets??!! Go Whine to Gary Stern you Frakking Crybaby!!!"

#2870 5 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

I can make the witch skill shot from the plunge about 90% of the time which includes a nice skill shot bonus that increases the more times you do it. I don't even bother trying for the much riskier crystal ball or monkey skill shots that don't pay off well enough to match the risk. You do a short plunge and then can see the ball through the opening in the munchkin playfield and then strike the ball into the witch. Similarly, I use the upper flipper to get witch hurry up shots when the ball is coming out of the pops which is easy since the ball is slowed coming out of the pop bumpers. Additionally, the upper flipper can often be used to direct the ball to the left flipper in a controlled manner by holding it up. These are all skills that take a little practice but can be mastered by decent players.
The Witch hurry-ups are one of the most important parts of the ruleset so I bash the crap out of her while also trying to keep the risk of draining down.

Good points for sure. I never go for that skill shot, as I think the better plan is a full plunge hoping to light the Winged Monkey targets.

What's that skill shot worth anyway? 17 points??!! Haha.

1 month later
#3932 5 years ago

My kids always ask me for a reference score when playing a new game. They'll ask, "Does this game score in the Millions, or in the hundred Millions?? What's a good score for THIS game?"

It's like saying, "Those soccer players only got 2 points??!! The basketball team got over one hundred!! Soccer players must suck".

I love that WOZ is such a low scoring game. It's unique in that way in the modern age.

3 weeks later
#4303 5 years ago

I think, as with WOZ, it'll be about learning where to look for the information you need. It's true that the LCD is much cooler for the spectator than the player. While playing, you need to access information quickly. You're not watching animations, for the most part. You need to know how many balls you have locked, the mode you're in etc etc.

My first problem with WOZ was I felt like I had NO IDEA what was going on. I never looked at the LCD at all, because there wasn't time!

It'll be important that the info you actually need is laid out in a way that's easy to reference quickly. I think the 4 corners of info, with central cut scenes could be a very effective solution.

Really looking forward to this machine.

#4328 5 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Same. I'm gonna have to play it before I judge. I'd love a really deep game that is easy to understand. I've tried to give TZ a chance dozens of times, and just can't get into it. I don't completely understand what I'm supposed to be doing, and don't care to take the time to learn.
If Hobbit presents a deep game that is easy for inexperienced players to learn, it's going to be a hit for me.

Just watch the PAPA video tutorial on TZ. I watched that once, and made it to the Wizard mode within a few days. It's just knowing what to shoot and when. Pretty easy actually. If Valinor is a 10 difficulty wise, I'd put TZ at a 3 or 4. It's a REALLY fun Wizard mode though. Very satisfying.

#4329 5 years ago

I suppose that couldn't have been more off topic! Back to Hobbit!!...

I think lots of modes is a great thing, but it has to be compelling. I found Destroying the Witch to be SUPER satisfying on my WOZ... However, I am completely unmotivated to attempt SOTR. It just seems like WAY too much work... Maybe I'll get OCD, and focus on it one day, but it doesn't make me want to get there the same way Valinor did.

#4356 5 years ago
Quoted from dgoett:

Really? If you can't figure out TZ, you really shouldn't be in the hobby. Shoot the 2 ramps to relight your piano and slot shots. Keep hitting those shots to start and stack modes until all the door panels are complete. Then shoot again to start wizard mode lost in the zone.
It really isn't that deep of a game. Just tons of mini modes.
TAF is basically the same thing. Do you not understand that one either?

yeah, and it's 10 years newer with a much better rules designer.

Ok, yours is hardly the worst example of needless ridicule here on Pinside, but it's the straw that broke this camel's back.

So... You know something that somebody else doesn't know, and your default position is to ridicule, and intimidate them??!! Why take the Dbag position immediately??

This is a community. I think we should act more like neighbours wherever possible. Less like hostile lone nuts deep in bunkers of unaccountability.

I had ALREADY pointed him to the information he'd require if he wanted to understand the game better.

Can't we all just be a little more civilized here??!! Maybe I'm missing some background beef between you two? If so, I'll bow out respectfully.

I just wish people would keep in mind that we are all a bunch of pinball enthusiasts, looking for some fellowship, and community here. At the end of the day, if you bully somebody, you're worst than the lamest high school bully I ever dealt with. You're a bully on a totally marginalized, esoteric, fanboy, discussion forum that NOBODY outside of US cares about.

Dgoett, I don't know anything about you, and I'm sorry if this seems to be calling you out in particular... It's not. I've just reached my breaking point with needlessly negative BS here.

I love pinball, and pinside is the greatest place to be if you do. I'd really like to keep it that way, instead of standing by while it succumbs to lowest common denominator ridiculing.

Sorry for the tirade.

Looking forward to any and all new Hobbit info. Can't wait to get mine.

Let's keep it positive folks!

#4368 5 years ago
Quoted from dgoett:

I admit my post might have been a little harsh, but most of it was explaining how to play it.
The attitude of "I don't understand the rules and don't want to" just hit me the wrong way. I think "pinball people" would want to know the most about EVERY games rules like it or not so when you play in a league or tourney you can compete.
I do agree we should be more like neighbors and I'm guilty of severe sarcasm and snippiness sometimes. So, my apologies.

Mighty neighbourly of you! I appreciate the thoughtful response. Water under the bridge then?

My biggest hope for the Hobbit, rules, and final mech details aside... Is that I don't have to carry it in to my basement. Anybody have a spare Escalera??

2 weeks later
#4463 4 years ago

I don't "know" this, but my assumption is that 3rd movie assets will be added as an update at a later date. They only get those assets when the film is released. They can't be expected to incorporate them immediately.

1 month later
#5388 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

Ted Estes just indicated that the guy from the video (I posted earlier) is on the audition list and is being considered for the voice talent for the callouts. Yeah!

I really hope they don't go with this guy. He does an ok Gollum. He really doesn't sound like Gandalf though. The real test is for him to say lines that AREN'T from the film. Does he still sound like Sir Ian McKellen??!! I dot think so.

There have to be 1,000,000 guys who'd jump at the chance, and do a spot on Gandalf.

Not trying to be super negative. I just don't think this kid is the one.

2 weeks later
#5927 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinstym:

Shot this 5 minute video Friday at Allentown. I had my video set to Ultra Hi-def, so kinda disappointed that the vid seems to only have 360p as the highest setting. Advice would be cool if I can fix that.
First time seeing the game in person. Wow. Pretty incredible.
» YouTube video

At the 3:09 mark of the video, the ball drops out of the wire form in to the outlane. This happened a lot on my WOZ. I've tried adjusting the wire form slightly left, and right. If I go left, it bounces off the sling with even worse results. If I go right, it hops the lane guide. It appears to be perfectly centered at present, yet still dumps balls in to the outlane occasionally. Likely less than 25% of the time... But it's sure frustrating when it happens.

Anybody have a fix?? Or is this just one of those "That's Pinball" random moments?? It seems to me that the ramp return should ALWAYS feed the flipper, but I suppose sometimes there is some strange ball spin that causes it to hop the lane guide??

2 weeks later
#6144 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

Okay. Didn't want to do this either, but I getting a bit tired not getting any concrete information. So here is a quote of the JJP forum.
Post on JJP forum:
"My 2 cents is the line is ready, but vendor parts timing and quality are not in JJP control. I was on the phone with him just 3 weeks ago and he had a story about a vendor had not packed well, but thankfully nothing was broken (but they hadn't unloaded and unboxed it all yet as of our phone call), and it wasn't the first time with this vendor. Jack tells us what he knows, but he doesn't know what he doesn't know regarding vendors delivering (in all uses of that word)".
My comment on that:
"I do not fully understand this and to me it looks more like poor planning. For the most part TH uses standard parts that are highly available and JJP has had enough time to find good vendors for that. For the 'special' parts, the drop targets are done a long time so that should not be a problem either. What is left are Smaug and the pop up figures and if that blocks setting up the production line than I think I haven't got a clue what producing is about. As I think these could be easily be fitted at the end as the greatest part of the pin has been assembled.
So what is really holding up the start of the production???"
Reaction from Jack:
"There was some poor planning and some people were fired who were responsible....one left on his own.
There is not much in The Hobbit that is a "standard part" almost no unique Hobbit parts are "standard". The whole drop target assembly is different and patent pending and the actual plastic targets need to be made special for us so they read with the opto's correctly, not standard.
Your observation is similar to someone who chops trees down for a living making an observation about brain surgery.
The games will ship when all the parts arrive - all of the correct parts arrive - not too far out there. If you want a Great Game - this is what it takes. If you want something else, that's your choice. Thanks".

Ok. Here's my 2 cents. I think those are the words of a frustrated man. I'm not making excuses for Jack, as I think it was not a very diplomatic statement.

That said, it must get tiresome to hear non stop totally misinformed speculation. No intention to single you out here PinballRulez... Just may have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

Machine is delayed. Communication hasn't been as terrible as people are saying. They are waiting on some parts before they can spool up the production line. Once they have everything in place, I'm sure they'll be singing to the rooftops that production is underway.

Until then, they are delayed and will begin ASAP.

So, Jack was a bit snippy. Probably frustrated with the delays too. We're all a bit impatient. Nothing to see here.

#6147 4 years ago

Haha. You're right I apologize. We should keep the negativity loud and constant!!! I kid. I'm frustrated too. Let's just please keep in mind... It's only pinball, right??! This is supposed to be fun.

To see your analogy through though. It's a little more like designing a living room for thousands of people, and then somebody else shits on your designs. You tell everybody you've been delayed, but are hoping to get their living rooms to them soon. People complain that it shouldn't be that hard to build living rooms!! Ok... I'm already tired of this comparison.

Seriously, I don't want to argue with anybody. Not making excuses for JJP, Jack or myself... But we really should try to be more positive in general. Otherwise... What's the point??

I'm going to play pinball. Have a great night everybody!

#6152 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I agree. People are overly negative when it's not necessary. Like that thread about what if Kiss is a failure. What's the point? No one has even played it yet.
But I do think there's a difference between being negative and realistic. The positivity and "stop being so negative!" thing went on for longer than it should have with Skit-B and Jpop.
There's a lot of real money on the line here, I think it's fair for people to want to hear some updates and answers. It might not be the answers they're hoping to hear, but they should at least get some kind of response, don't you think?
I really liked the recent (and long overdue) Q&A response from Dutch Pinball. We need more of that!

I have nothing but great things to say about DP. I think Lebowski is going to blow the lights out.

I have a BoP 2.0, and it blows my mind. Though I am a WOZ owner, AND and Hobbit SE preorderer, I'm SUPER impressed with what DP has done with the screen on BoP2.0 and TBL. That could be a great next step for Stern.

There is an awful lot of call for the large screen hi res back box, but I simply don't agree. You play the playfield, not the screen. I think the balance is perfect with DPs approach. Way better graphics, and slightly larger screen (on TBL)... Who needs more than that?!!! Ok. A little off topic.

As for what is worth getting upset about... Yep, my money is in here too. I wish I had my game. I wish I had more info. I'm just not that upset about it. I can understand why some are frustrated, but I don't think the answer is to rant and spew.

We are nowhere near the SkitB or Jpop level of clusterf$&@ here. The project is delayed, but it's progressing, licensed, has a production facility, is from a company that has actually made a machine... Etc etc.

I'm not saying anything new here. Just urging calm. This is going to be a great machine. I wish I already had it. I should already have it. That fact that I don't is a drag... But it's not ruining my day, my week, my month, or even my year.

3 weeks later
#6486 4 years ago

Haha. Love the scarecrow dancing to that epic hobbit orchestration.

1 week later
#6661 4 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

Did anyone notice the clear is cracking in the picture of the outlane. Look at the edge where the switch pops through. Seems like thick clear coat is not always a good thing.

I think that's just part of the art. Meant to look like it's been clawed in that area, no??!!

Am I looking at the right thing?? Just down and to the left of the shape shifter dude... Beyorn (sp??)??!! I think that's part of the art.

1 week later
#6927 4 years ago

Jack will never be accused of being an eloquent speaker.

I think his worst crime here is perhaps believing Jpops version of how things went down. JPOP probably said, "Things were going great, but Pinside panic caused a run on the bank"

Jack is probably sick to death of pointless online criticism. There is a distinction between constructive commentary (IE Aurich's critique of the original playfield) and mindless brand bashing (IE JJP is a pyramid scheme, Stern Sucks, Etc etc)

JJP has benefitted from constructive scrutiny, but I would say both Stern and JJP receive more than their due of bashing.

I think he misspoke on several points. Jpops failure had nothing to do with Pinside criticism or opinion, and I don't think anybody thought they were investing in a start up. I think everybody thought they were paying for, or partially paying for a pinball machine that would surely materialize... With hindsight being what it is, you could call that an ill advised move, but JPOP had a pedigree, and people bought his BS.

Ultimately, I think JPOP did a terrible thing to the pinball community. I'm not sure if he intended to. Many things make it look like it's not simply down to the blunders of a bad business man.

Whereas Jack has done an incredible thing for the Pinball community. He brought us WOZ, and it's looking like Hobbit will arrive in the coming months.

What I do know is this. If we, as a community, continue to pile on, disrespect, mud sling, bash, and generally bad mouth the people in this industry... They will stop coming here. In my opinion, they deserve a modicum of respect, and a degree of reverence.

I'm not defending what Jack said, but I'd rather he speak up, and make a few mistakes, then say nothing.

One possible reaction is, "Jack, I appreciate what you've said about A, B, and C... However, I think your comment D is way off base. This community is passionate and engaged, but we're hardly responsible for JPOPs failures."

To which Jack may respond, "I see your point. I may be filtering what I said through my own lens of frustration about the delays I'm experiencing. I'm working my ass off to deliver a next level pin, and I've got keyboard warriors bashing me for delays beyond my control, calling me a liar, and trashing the company I have put my whole life in to"

I just wish that people were more respectful of each other, and of the people who make these incredible machines. Sadly, JPOP has lost that respect through his colossal failures... But I think we could cut Jack a LITTLE slack.

#6946 4 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Really enjoyed your post. I would say though, that to many people, Jack was so far off base in so many of his comments on the JPop fiasco, that it was really difficult to feel like he deserved even a LITTLE slack.
I mean he actually said "those who "invested" in him - well - you got what you paid for. You got to be on the roller coaster ride of ups and downs. You got to be an insider and an outsider. You had the money to burn for a big toy that nobody needs and that money got burned alright."
It makes me cringe every time I read that quote. It scares me to know that he actually thinks this way.

Me too. I just saw this as Jack shooting from the hip a bit, and speaking his mind. I think if he was challenged on that attitude, he might admit that it's off base. I don't think it was a well thought out statement. It wasn't a press release. It was a ramble on a private owners forum.

I've heard Jack say countless times how much he appreciates the Pinball community's support and belief in his company. That WOZ would not have been possible without us. Etc etc.

I don't think Jack has ANY disdain for the pinball community or Pinside. I think he's sick of internet trolls. So am I.

It wasn't a press release, and it wasn't even intended to be posted here.

Imagine if we were all privy to the private rambling statements of the heads of every company that we buy things from??

I think Jack is a good guy. Maybe that's where I'm coming from first and foremost. I'm not sure why so many want to see him fail, or make such a big deal out of such an uninvested statement. What does it matter what Jack said about JPOP and Magic Girl??!! It really doesn't. It doesn't reflect his attitude about his own company. It reflects his attitude about people who trash talked him while backing the wrong horse.

I think it was poorly thought out, and if he'd run it by a PR person they surely would have sanitized it and made it much more innocuous and palpable... But we were never even meant to see it?!!

I'm just tired of the manufactured outrage here. I love Pinside. I read it every day, and contribute what I can to the conversation. There are a tremendous amount of incredible people here who are helpful, insightful, thoughtful, funny... And truly crazy about pinball.

There is however a very vocal minority who live to make things shitty. It's an unfortunate side effect of the system.

Long story short... I think Jack misspoke. I think he hadn't thought that statement through. There is a cadre of people here waiting in a 3 point stance to jump all over whatever their personal beef is. It's just stupid.

How about, "Hey Jack, that part was off base"??, or "Jack, you made some good points, but I think you totally missed the point with..."

You know, the way civilized people would engage in a conversation??

We have this amazing opportunity to elevate the discussion. Let's look for opportunities to improve things, rather than jumping on every chance to sling mud, feed fires, and pour salt in wounds.

Have a great day everybody.

1 week later
#7286 4 years ago
Quoted from fuko:

Anyone who read all that and still believes the LCD display is unnecessary just doesn't get it. This opens up a whole different kind of game play. The display can be used for so much more than than just your score and some movie clips

I respectfully disagree. I like my WOZ, and I'm in on a Hobbit SE as well, however I think the giant LCD is just one approach. I think DP has a great solution. Next level display, just a little larger, yet still maintaining the retro appeal of a pinball dmd.

I agree Stern will have to up their game terms of the display, but I don't think a giant LCD is the only answer.

As far as what I'm seeing thus far on Hobbit, the information looks to be organized even better than on WOZ. I think this is going to be a stunning machine. Keith's rules will give us headaches for years to come!!! You can tell I mean that in a good way right??

I'd be quite happy if the giant LCD remained a JJP signature. I don't demand it of anybody else though. My MET Pre leaves me wanting nothing.

Looking forward to any and all news about when my new pin(s) will arrive!

2 months later
#8743 4 years ago

Though the wait is killing me for my Hobbit, I've just now decided that when it arrives, I'm immediately packing it up and shipping it to Chris to have it HEP'd.

I expect that when I unbox my HEP'd Hobbit, a chorus of Angels will sing my praises, the refugee crisis will be solved, climate change will reverse, and somebody on Pinside will call me an idiot.

3 months later
#9017 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Yeah. Thing is those are too expensive too, especially for what you get.

Jesus, Aurich... I like you. I have bought things from you, and I read most of what you post on anything I'm interested in. I think lots of times you're the voice of reason in an emotionally charged testosterone fest, but "especially for what you get"?!

What you get from Stern are constantly delivered machines with some of the greatest and most interesting code we have ever seen in pinball. Lyman's work on TWD is nothing short of sheer brilliance. Met too, and ACDC. Mustang, also awesome (though not Lyman!)

Now, if your comment is referring to "what you get" for your premium or LE up-sell from the Pro pricing, then that's another discussion entirely.

I'm in on the Hobbit SE. I'm excited for it, and deeply frustrated that it's not already here. At the end of the day though, I don't care how pretty Hobbit is, if it's not fun to play.

I know you know all this. You have a Met Pre, I think.

These things are EXPENSIVE... But I'm not sure they could be delivered for much cheaper.

I would personally like to see Stern go to a single model at the Premium features level. Full RGB lighting. All Mechs and toys etc, then let people bling out their machine to their hearts content. Let them order custom legs, rails, toppers, shooters, and toys etc. Base model 6.5K. Bling it up to 9K if you like, but it won't change the game.

Back on track. Very excited to see the Hobbit line moving, and can't wait to see pins delivering. It has to be soon, right??! It has to be.

#9048 4 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I have a Metallica LE. Love it. But I don't think value wise it's an $8000 game.
For that kind of money I want more upgrades. High Rez LCD screen, full RGB lighting, etc.
All I'm saying is that Stern's most expensive model just doesn't have the same value as the competition at that price point. They're still conservative in the tech department.
Hobbit is pricey. But it's at least a compelling package if you're feeling spendy.

I guess it comes down to what you consider "value". There is tremendous value in solid support of well made products, with awesome depth. Not going to beat a dead horse here. Stern delivers.

I love what JJP is trying to do. I'm supporting it. I bought WOZ. I've pre-ordered a Hobbit SE. I just think it's possible to be excited about the Hobbit without bashing the only serious player in the market. It's tiresome.

Let's keep it positive. Stern is doing something nobody else has managed to do.

Since I preordered my Hobbit, I have bought, received and enjoyed TWDle, AMH, BOP 2.0, Shadow, Bounty Hunter, Congo, Farfalla... The list goes on.

What's that old saying? A bird in hand is worth 2 Bird SEs in the bush??!

Good luck in 2016 JJP. Can't wait to play my Hobbit. I truly think machines will be delivering soon.

2 weeks later
#9180 4 years ago

It's the worst Black Friday deal ever! We've all been lined up for years outside a store for an item we've already bought, and now we're bragging about our line position when we have no idea what Time/Day/Month the store opens!

I ❤️ Pinball!!

2 months later
#9682 3 years ago

Have you guys seen this??! It's pretty remarkable


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