(Topic ID: 77386)

Hobbit Update

By B9

6 years ago

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  • 10,044 posts
  • 743 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by GravitaR
  • Topic is favorited by 96 Pinsiders


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#66 6 years ago

It would be really cool to see just how many orders take place after a given announcement. One would have to guess this title is more popular than WoZ. That coupled with WoZ's success AND the funding. To me that ='s the LE's moving fast.

Good work JJP.

#73 6 years ago

So if the third movie is released around the holidays, will JJP be showing this off at expo? Seems like they would have to alter the vids/or just have to wait?

Or maybe that is why they will only have movie 1&2 artwork? Same with playfield? Then just have the screen show the 3rd movie content?

This will be interesting to see as it unfolds......very excited!

#110 6 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

Wow it's almost hilarious the angry and scared mob was out earlier this week and the end of civilization and JJP was at hand and they could do no right.......

Then JJP shows a few Hobbit update pictures and videos and all is forgotten and they are the best and greatest again!

mob.jpg 71 KB

So if one were to lose the Packer logo on your avatar, credibility would be greatly heightened

#118 6 years ago

Ok, make a config setting to have a 10, 100, or 1000 multiplier on the score. Would be very easy to do and make everyone happy!

I agree the low scores seem odd.....but then again, the crazy scores like IJ or TZ were nuts.

2 weeks later
#222 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

definitely. Buy in's were a money maker. Look at gauntlet. Holy shit did that game eat quarters. Those things has to pay for themselves in the first month.

Gauntlet broke my bank big time......literally. I broke a bank I had in my bedroom so I could bring enough quarters to play that game!

2 months later
#876 5 years ago

Just got an email from JJP....

Going to just cut and paste it for now......


Greetings Pinball Fans,

We had a great time at the Michigan Pinball Expo this past weekend! JJP Distributor, Abel Electronics had 3 WOZ Pinball Machines in their booth which remained extremely crowded throughout the weekend.

Jack and Butch will be heading to the Rocky Mountain Pinball Showdown this weekend where they will be speaking on Saturday, April 12th at 2:00pm. For more information on this show, visit - http://www.pinballshowdown.com/index.html

The Midwest Gaming Classic is also this weekend! JJP Distributor, KingPin will be at the show with 2 WOZ Pinballs in their booth. For more info on the Midwest Gaming Classic, visit https://www.midwestgamingclassic.com/

John Kosmal, Gary of Abel Electronics, Jack and Butch Peel at MPE

Pinball Earnings Rankings from April 2014 Play Meter Magazine - WOZ Ranked #1

Crowds at Michigan Pinball Expo

We are very excited to release an early version shooting whitewood of The Hobbit Pinball Machine! There is much more not revealed including JJP's proprietary target banks as several of them are not populated into this earlier whitewood. Also not shown is Smaug and how he will integrate with game play.

"Joe Balcer created another great game with a lot to shoot for and a lot of challenges. This is a Pinball Battle game" said Jack. The level of player control and strategy in The Hobbit is a departure from what WOZ is. Between Keith and Ted, we can promise a game packed with the depth, modes, and rules that they are well known for.

Early Version Whitewood - The Hobbit Pinball Machine - JJP
Video 1 - Early Version Whitewood - The Hobbit Pinball Machine
Be sure to set video quality to 1080p

Early Version Whitewood - The Hobbit Pinball Machine
Video 2 - Early Version Whitewood - The Hobbit Pinball Machine
Be sure to set video quality to 1080p

Also, see below for a another LCD Animation clip JP DeWin has been working on!

Hobbit Pinball - LCD Animation
Hobbit Pinball - LCD Animation

ECLE WOZ Owners, Brian and Denise Hein just picked up #822 at the factory today!

Check out some new Mods Pinnovators will be unveiling at the Allentown Pinball Show this year

2 months later
#1311 5 years ago

Here are the links to the update...





Man I can't wait for this pin to be done. It really has so much potential. All the lessons learned of WoZ plus an awesome theme.

#1353 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Especially if the ball could roll in the front door for a ball lock!

Hmmmm, do you think the designers of the set of the movie thought....."Man, one day this could be used in a pinball machine?"

#1356 5 years ago
Quoted from txstargazer3:

No, Tolkien thought that when he wrote The Hobbit and included a round door. JRR must have been a pinhead!

You are soooo right! Maybe if we go back and read the Hobbit there is an entire subplot that will take us on a multi-ball journey of sorts. You just have to dig to find it!

3 months later
#1674 5 years ago

I really think posts that are very very anit-spirit of the thread should be banned from Pinside. I understand that there is an ignore feature, but it doesn't help the responses, etc.

At the end of the day, a nice conversation about the pros and cons of an idea are fine. But what this guy is doing here is just plain cynical.

This is one case where the mods needs to step in and put this kind of behavior to rest. It is adding no value to Pinside. If anything, it is annoying a lot of people and wasting a lot of time.

Please Pinside, put a fork in this one.

1 week later
#1897 5 years ago

I actually thought there was a Hobbit update. Looks like Pinch is duking it out with a troll again. Go Pinch Go!

1 week later
#2133 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'm pulling for JJP on this one. Would love to see them put the WOZ issues in the rear view mirror and become a truly viable company, where they just make games and people buy them and the drama recedes to the same level as Stern, where people bitch and things break, but it's all just normal pinball.
I'm looking forward to TBL the most at Expo, but if there's a full Hobbit reveal I'm definitely pumped to see the full thing.

I have to laugh.....this is how out of it I have been at times in my life. I have seen this "TBL" acronym floating around. Didn't know what it was. Then I heard it was The Big Lebowski. Sounds like it will be a cool pin. Here is the rub, I have never even seen the movie!

5 months later
#5070 4 years ago

I am amazed on how much people bitch about the pre-order process. Without it, WoZ, TH, and Pat's machine would never have happened. Period.

With that said, I am looking forward to the day that JJP can swing back to a more traditional model. But if I were Jack, I would keep pushing the pre-pay as long as there are folks that would back it.

1 month later
#6175 4 years ago

I am struggling with this whole thing.

I had a tech group out at my business last night. 20 people that have never been there. We fired up my WoZ and they were stunned at the machine. I happened to get lucky and start stacking both upper playfields in a multi-ball scenario at one time. They were stunned at the workmanship and the sophistication of that machine.

TH will be at the same level. Last October he rolled out a version of TH. Everyone barked and gave feedback. He adjusted and made some pretty significant changes. People liked the way things went. To think it was only going to extend the delivery timeline by a quarter or two was naive from both us and Jack. Thank goodness he listened and made a significant round of changes.

Jack is an optimist. Most entrepreneurs are. I am guilty of it as well. Back when I was a CIO, I would throw out timelines that were not going to be made. Thank goodness I had an IT Director that would call me on it and we would go public with the more realistic timeframes.

In the end, you guys will get a great machine. If you want out, ask for a refund. My guess is you will regret it though. I think there are a group of people that wish they would have stuck with WoZ. I still think that for the money (yes, as expensive as it is), WoZ is the best pin ever made. Period. And yes, I like the theme too. Very family friendly and was a perfect fit for my family and business.

Does Jack need to work on setting expectations better. YES! But frankly, he arguably has made the best product in the industry (version 1.0.) He has support that is second to none. Oh, and he has one of the best designers working on his third machine.

I would stick with it guys......there really isn't a close second out there. JJP's machines are in a league of their own (at this time). I mean Kiss has been announced with yet another DMD? Really?


#6186 4 years ago
Quoted from Captain_Kirk:

The changes to the Hobbit have nothing to do with the delay. This would have happened if everybody loved what Jack showed in October.

Huh? I would love to know your source on this statement. To think that the changes that were made wouldn't change the delivery date doesn't make any sense. Sorry, have to disagree unless you can say how you know this.

KISS does still have a DMD, but you know what? It's rolling off the line next week and people will have them in June. And you can get it for 3K less.

Yup it is. It is a different class of product. These are not apples to apples.

Don't Stern bash to cover up JJP's sins.

I am not bashing Stern. They are great machines for the market they are going after. I own one. But what JJP has thrown out there is very different. Is it costing them time and market share, yep.

Guys I am not defending Jack.....or maybe I am now that I think about it.

But this entire thing is voluntary. When I listen to people gripe on these boards it sounds like you can't get your money back. You can. It is a simple phone call. In the meantime, it is what it is while he gets his act together.

To me, a great product is worth the wait. I would rather wait 2 years more than have a sub-standard product.....again, my opinion, my money.

Hopefully he gives a detailed update soon to help with the confusion though.

2 months later
#7554 4 years ago

I find this pre-order debate amusing.

If I am a pinball business owner. I can....

1) Keep doing the pre-order. Thus increasing my cash flow and extending my operations. Why? Because there are still people that will do it. All be it less than before because of the delays, but they will still be there. Free cash, no risk.
2) Move to a standard model like Stern is doing.

I still cannot understand why I wouldn't choose door #1 if I was Jack. Frankly risk is pretty much on the consumer. They take a hit on the interest (marginal we know) and also the risk that if something happened to JJP, they would be in line with all of the creditors and likely get $.20 on the dollar at best by the time the dust settles. The upside for the pre-pay consumer?.....getting the game first. It is a free world folks. Risk/reward happens all of the time.

So I still can't understand why people get mad at JJP for executing this model. If I was them, I would continue it. Really isn't too much of a downside for JJP. If anything, I think it is smart of them and they should continue it. If it allows them to continue to make arguably some of the best pinball machines ever produced, please keep it going.

Under full disclosure, I received a WoZ late in the pre-paid model. Turned out great in my opinion. I am very happy with their product. I simply don't think there is anything else out there like it. I have the machine at my business. Every week I have someone asking about where to get it. It is (IMO) the best machine ever produced.


2 weeks later
#8109 4 years ago

I might be minimizing the effort, but creating an assembly line for a pinball machine is not like other lines. So if and when he is ready to go, I don't see it taking him months to get it rolling. Some portion of the machine is the same and the things are just parts at given stations. It is not like there is custom machinery and robotics to put into place. He needs a process, parts, and people.

I still think these things will be cranking before years end. I really don't think he wants to go into expo with only WoZ's on his radar. The only other thing that could really be holding him back is some key component that just isn't right or late.

I do like how the machine is shaping up. Those that are waiting should have a very fun machine for some time to come.....regardless of how the movies were. Somehow there started a correlation between how good the movies were to how good the pinball machines were going to be. Really?

TH will be here soon enough and there will be another batch of pinheads with some cools things to say about it. I still am excited about #3.....but TH has to get rolling!

#8199 4 years ago
Quoted from fatality83:

I just don't know, yes they got a cash injection, however that can only go so far. I have read a where a few people have backed out of the preorders. That is asked for a refund, not just selling their spots to someone else. You have to wonder how much that hurts a company that appeared to be already circling the toilet before the cash injection. Seems like a lot of people are very excited for GOT to come out. If that game gets an LCD and being that it is more relevant right now than the Hobbit and it's theme is similar to the Hobbit, I see a potential landslide of people asking for refunds or selling their spots to others. I hope I am completely wrong about all of this, or things continue to progress forward. I am assuming (since there was no real proof at the open house) that things are now moving forward with the Hobbit.

I am sorry but this speculation about JJP going under is frankly unwarranted. Has anyone seen their financials? They are private. To the best of my knowledge their financials are not public. So everything here is speculation. Yes they got a cash infusion. Do you think they would have received the cash if they had a losing business model? Pinball production is capital intensive. It might just be that Jack wanted to mitigate family risk to grow. I am not saying they are problem free, but we simply don't know the facts folks.

I still think they make the best pinball machine. Period. That to me is something to build around. It is not vaporware. It might be taking longer than it should, but that does not mean they are going under. There are way too many other variables. Variables that we simply do not have visibility to.

#8200 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

I was at the open house as well. I didn't see one thing either that would make me think the Hobbit is ready to ramp up production.
I did hear "Maybe we'll add a second line." Not to be a downer, but this late in the game, maybe is the wrong word to be using. Either a plan is in place to produce the Hobbit or a plan is not in place to produce the Hobbit.
This reminds me so much of John DeLorean (minus the drugs & extravagant lifestyle).
For full disclosure: I like the Hobbit machine a lot and do plan on buying it, not for another year or 2, waiting for all the kinks to get worked out.

Adding a second line is demand dependent. I wouldn't commit one way or another until I understood exactly what the demand is for TH AND what remaining demand there is for WoZ. Until the machine is ready from a parts and design perspective, I would keep my options open as well. So "maybe" could also mean "it depends". This depends on the numbers. While they may have the majority of that information, they simply don't have to make the call yet. To me that is smart business. This probably is their "plan". Plans have multiple paths based on facts.

#8204 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

We know demand is at least 1000+ machines so unless demand for WOZ falls to near 0, a second line would seem more than warranted. The part of the "plan" you are ignoring is the cash flow surplus and shortfall caused by the pre-order model... This is not "smart business" by any stretch of the term. It's a lot more like gambling with your customer's money ala Jon Corzine (MF Global).

Show me the balance sheet. Show me the cash flow statements. And the only one who as the exact forecast numbers for demand is JJP. So many experts on these boards....


#8210 4 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

No business owner willfully gives up their profits to someone else.

huh? Ever heard of the stock market? Ever heard of a company going public? Ever heard of a private company getting partners so he can grow and not take 100% of the risk on him or herself?


#8212 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

You sound like a very effective executive. "Ignore the obvious so we can move forward in optimism."
Maybe you are just reminiscing about McMahon and "the fridge".

I own my own business. So does that make me a bad executive?

I guess I can relate to some of the challenges JJP is facing.

I will be the first to calm this thread down. So sorry if I came across harsh here folks. Running your own business is very difficult. I just am seeing a ton of assumptions. I am not saying Jack is the best at everything. He has many shortfalls like we all do. I just don't want to see him fail and all of these assumptions about his books makes me cringe. And the fact that he has investors does not mean the business model is going to fail. In fact to me it quite the opposite. It means another individual with money had a close look at his books and has decided to invest in JJP. To me that is a very positive move. For some reason, it seems to be looked at that JJP is failing. I just don't get it.

If JJP fails, it is bad for pinball. I agree with the other post that GOT will push JJP even more. Competition is good folks.

#8349 4 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

I'd consider myself an employee.
Jack hired me first. The rest came later.
LTG : )

"In the beginning, there was Lloyd, and the people were happy"

4 months later
#9340 4 years ago

Gratz on all that waited this out. This arguably is one of the best looking machines ever built. Given the coding behind it, I am sure the ruleset will be epic.

In the end, I am sure the wait will be worth it. Even now the field testing is going to help even more.

One thing is clear 'JJP = Kiss Ass Product'.......it is the journey that can be challenging

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